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Fetteroll <fetteroll@...> writes:
> Can the child say no thanks? That's often a good test. Another good
> test might be to ask if you're treating their use of it the same as you

> would their "use" of a comic book. How much of yourself do you have
> invested in them using the mainstream educational methods, and using
them in the "right" way?

To tell you the truth, I have nothing invested in textbooks. They were
all given to me, and I don't know that I would exert any great effort to
search them out and buy them if they weren't. I do pick up different
workbooks here and there because they look like something that may at
sometime be interesting to my children, but they are always free to say
"no". I keep the workbooks in the same area as I do coloring books, arts
and crafts scraps, play dough, you name it. But I have to admit, I do
cringe when my 3yo takes a brand new workbook and colors pictures all
over it. I literally have to turn my back, but I don't stop her. But I
can't stop from feeling it's a waste, and not "proper use". Is there any
hope for me???

> But what do you mean by unmotivated? Do you mean he doesn't get out
> of bed
> in the morning? Do you mean he watches TV all day? Do you mean he
> isn't
> doing anything that resembles learning in school?

What I mean is a lack of motivation to make decisions. Maybe motivation
is the wrong term. She has a very hard time making decisions. Everything
from selecting what color vitamin to take, to what clothes to wear, to
what she should be doing with her time. After much reflection on the
posts yesterday, I think the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I
myself have a hard time making decisions. I analyze, weigh, seek
approval, and take many precautions before making a move. For this
reason, I don't tend to get a lot done in a timely manner, but when
things are done, they are usually correct. I was never forced to make my
own decisions. There was always someone, whether it be parents, teachers,
friends, ready to make decisions for me. I guess if I want my children to
know it is ok to make their own decisions, without having to concern
themselves with acceptance, the possibility of making mistakes, and such,
I better improve at it myself. I guess whatever mistakes I make with my
children can't possibly screw them up nearly as much as the stifling of
the spirit perpetuated by schools.

> The goals
> are different than standard schooling: to help our kids be who they
> are and
> trust that they will learn what they need.

This trust thing is a problem. I know in my heart that it is what's
needed, just can't seem to let go of the "what-ifs".
>
> I think embracing that goal is key to getting unschooling and
> getting it to
> work. If we expect the kids to progress in a particular direction,
> unschooling will be frustrating -- and obviously not work! It's not
> designed
> to do that!
>
> Joyce
I don't expect my children to progress in any particular direction. I
don't concern myself with their educational capabilities ie: reading,
writing, arithmetic. I am sure that will all come in time when they are
ready. I am more concerned about there emotional well-being, and want
them to thrive and be able to find there own happiness in life, without
them feeling like I deprived them of something in childhood. Thanks for
the insight.
Wende

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In a message dated 1/7/03 6:37:02 AM, love-it-here@... writes:

<< But I
can't stop from feeling it's a waste, and not "proper use". Is there any
hope for me??? >>

I think it just takes time being around natural learning. After a dozen
instances when your kids show you something amazing they've learned when you
didn't know they were, you'll stop worrying.

I wanted to show my kids Roman numerals one day. For some reason I had come
across something at the house with Roman numerals, and I know Marty's
interested in all things mathish, so I called them over and said "Hey, I want
to show you something real cool," and in a column I started writing some
numbers, like
i
iv
vi
x...

and Marty (who was nine, I think, maybe) pointed at the vi and said "That's a
six."

I was deflated. I wasn't going to get to see the spark come on in Marty's
eyes.

"How did you know that?"

"Mega Man."

<< I was never forced to make my
own decisions. There was always someone, whether it be parents, teachers,
friends, ready to make decisions for me. >>

WHOA!!! Don't go there.
Don't blame others for not having made you do something.
Maybe it just IS genetic, and you're getting along okay. You're employed and
you reproduced.

A Canadian university did a big study of twins separated at birth. Two grown
men who organized their desks and closes almost exactly the same was as the
other twin, VERY meticulous organizers, were asked why they thought they were
so fastidiously neat (i.e. anal, but they didn't ask it that way). One said
because his mother was a slob and he never wanted to be that disorganized and
the other said because luckily his mother had taught him to be neat.

They were putting their clothes in the same kind of order. They were putting
their staplers in the same place.

Their mothers had nothing to do with it.

<<I guess if I want my children to
know it is ok to make their own decisions, without having to concern
themselves with acceptance, the possibility of making mistakes, and such,
I better improve at it myself. >>

I think you can just say "It's okay to be slow to make decisions. I'm that
way too."

They probably don't mind at ALL wanting to be more like you.

<<This trust thing is a problem. I know in my heart that it is what's
needed, just can't seem to let go of the "what-ifs".>>

But trust is earned. And when you see natural learning working, you'll come
to trust it.

Sandra

Sandra