[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/03 9:36:18 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ldycheroke57@... writes:

> I know homeschooling my son is the right choice for our family. I
> wish to learn more about unschooling. This is a new concept for me.
> But I like what I'm learning about it. Perhaps next year, I'll be
> ready to make the leap to unschooling...
>
> Rebecca
>
>
>
Hi Rebecca,
Welcome!
This is a wonderful place to learn about unschooling. Generally, we suggest
that all new members read for at least two weeks before hopping into the
discussion, so that they can get a good feel for the list.
Read at <A HREF="www.unschooling.com">www.unschooling.com</A> just go to the message boards, click topics, and
just put in a word you may be interested in, like unschooling science or
reluctant family members. There is also Sandra's website: <A HREF="www.sandradodd.com">www.sandradodd.com</A>
Enjoy!

*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Helen Hegener

At 9:58 AM -0500 1/3/03, Earthmomma67@... wrote:
>This is a wonderful place to learn about unschooling. Generally, we suggest
>that all new members read for at least two weeks before hopping into the
>discussion, so that they can get a good feel for the list.

We do? That would drive me crazy! I'm an incorrigible list-hopper,
jumping on and off lists as I have the time, interest, whatever it
takes, and being advised to just read for two weeks before adding my
two-cents' worth would probably send me packin' on down the road. I
think a person can get a good "feel" for a list by scanning the
archives if need be, but on the whole I'd rather folks just dive in
and start dogpaddling like the rest of us. <g>

Helen, *finally* back on a local access number again (in Alaska)

Fetteroll

on 1/3/03 7:24 PM, Helen Hegener at HEM-Editor@... wrote:

> We do?

Yes, we do. It's in the introduction. And no I didn't slip that in after you
approved it ;-)

> That would drive me crazy!

It's just a suggestion. Which means people often ignore it. Sometimes at
their peril ;-)

> I
> think a person can get a good "feel" for a list by scanning the
> archives if need be

Most people I suspect don't know about the expand messages option and
reading post by post with pop up ads every other one would drive anyone
crazy!

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/03 9:03:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
HEM-Editor@... writes:

> We do? That would drive me crazy! I'm an incorrigible list-hopper,
> jumping on and off lists as I have the time, interest, whatever it
> takes, and being advised to just read for two weeks before adding my
> two-cents' worth would probably send me packin' on down the road. I
> think a person can get a good "feel" for a list by scanning the
> archives if need be, but on the whole I'd rather folks just dive in
> and start dogpaddling like the rest of us. <g>
>
> Helen, *finally* back on a local access number again (in Alaska)

Helen ( hey again.)
Nice to meet you.. Obviously, Ive come to this list while you were gone. How
long were you gone? I wonder if this list changed a lot while you were
gone. The above copied post IS typical around here. I think its a warning
for folks to be ready to defend themselves if they step out of line too soon.
Basically, I think a few folks want new members to read posts and decide if
they want to be on "thier" team or not. I've stuck around because I HAVE
found some very useful information here and some great folks too. I'll never
be a member of the tea party, but thats OK.. Conformity is not my bag,
baby.. :-) It's become sort of a sift and discard process for me. Hey,
Im sure Im not the only new member to join in your absence, so, why dont you
tell us a little about yourself? I know you just moved to Alaska.. dish out
some more 411.(please)

. I am Teresa., 35, 4 kids ( 3 hs'ed - dd 13, ds 11, and ds 7, one in ps, ds
16) We live in NC and Ive been married to the same man for 17 years ( bless
my soul.. lol)


Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/03 9:20:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:

> reading post by post with pop up ads every other one would drive anyone
> crazy!
>

ARRGHGHGHGH.. I know it does me! I have some of my group subscriptions set
to NO MAIL becasue of high volume, and I just read posts at the group site..
It is SOOO frustrating.. But, if I want to keep up with the list, I just have
to put up with it. .

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Helen Hegener

At 9:20 PM -0500 1/3/03, Fetteroll wrote:
>on 1/3/03 7:24 PM, Helen Hegener at HEM-Editor@... wrote:
>
>> We do?
>
>Yes, we do. It's in the introduction. And no I didn't slip that in after you
>approved it ;-)

Ah, okay, now I remember. This is *that* list. <eg>

Maybe it's time to re-revise the intro?

>Most people I suspect don't know about the expand messages option

Then we should tell 'em. Or maybe... is there a good concise guide to
using YahooGroups anywhere? Something we could send to new
subscribers to help them get a jumpstart on all the best features? I
need to do some list maintenance tonight... I'll do some poking
around, but if anyone knows of something already available I'd sure
love to know about it (needs to be something that won't be a breach
of copyright). Or if there isn't anything out there maybe we could
all put our heads together and create one. Seems like something we
could make available on all our lists as a free public service or
something. I know it's taken me a long time to figure out what I know
about Yahoo's list services, and I'm sure there's more I could
benefit from, helpful little tips and tricks, if I knew about them.
Of course it's all right there online at the Yahoo site - but who has
time to read *that?* <g>

Helen

Helen Hegener

At 9:54 PM -0500 1/3/03, grlynbl@... wrote:
>Helen ( hey again.)
>Nice to meet you.. Obviously, Ive come to this list while you were gone. How
>long were you gone?

I've been more or less on the road for about a year now... <g>

Seriously, I've been doing a lot of travelling this past year between
our home in Washington state and our eventual home here in Alaska. We
bought five acres up here last fall, and my 22-year-old daughter and
I left Washington around the first week of December and have been
camping in motels and with relatives until just this week, when we
found a terrific little log cabin (with all the modern conveniences,
of course) to rent until we get our house built. My husband Mark and
our youngest son, Michael (17) are holding down the fort in
Washington, keeping our business running and feeding our small herd
of horses. Our office manager gets home from her holiday vacation
next week and then Mark and Michael will either fly or drive up here.

> I wonder if this list changed a lot while you were gone.

I think it mellowed some. At times this list has taxed my
considerable ability to keep up with the conversation! <g>

>The above copied post IS typical around here. I think its a warning
>for folks to be ready to defend themselves if they step out of line too soon.
> Basically, I think a few folks want new members to read posts and decide if
>they want to be on "thier" team or not.

I'm going to read a bunch more before commenting on that...

> I've stuck around because I HAVE
>found some very useful information here and some great folks too. I'll never
>be a member of the tea party, but thats OK.. Conformity is not my bag,
>baby.. :-)

LOL! Nor mine. As you can see, I even question our *own* hard-won
list policies!

Helen

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/03 9:03:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
HEM-Editor@... writes:

> We do? That would drive me crazy! I'm an incorrigible list-hopper,
> jumping on and off lists as I have the time, interest, whatever it
> takes, and being advised to just read for two weeks before adding my
> two-cents' worth would probably send me packin' on down the road

Apparently we DO!
From the list description on the yahoogroups website:
We advise reading for a week or two before posting to get a "feel" for the
list and its members, since many listmembers love a lively debate and
questioning beliefs to their foundations. If you have questions about this
list please feel free to contact list moderator Joyce Fetteroll (<A HREF="mailto:jfetteroll@...">
fetteroll@...</A>)


*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/3/03 7:55:17 PM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< Basically, I think a few folks want new members to read posts and decide
if
they want to be on "thier" team or not. >>

Marty, my thirteen year old, said one day when I interjected something into a
conversation, "Fifteen minute rule, mom."

"What?"

"You should listen to a conversation for fifteen minutes so you know how it's
going before you join."

Turns out what I had said wasn't to the point, and I had misinterpreted
something I heard out of context.

I hadn't ever heard of any "fifteen minute rule," but apparently Marty's
uncle talked to him about it one time, with them telling some stories, and
Marty has observed it since.

The analogy I am familiar with and which has always made sense to me is going
to a party (not a tea party) and watching and listening a while to see what's
going on before interrupting any conversations or making any announcements.
It depends how well I know the people, but even with family and best friends
I try to check the rhythm and flow of the communication before I join.

<<I'll never
be a member of the tea party, but thats OK.. >>

I think of tea party lists as those where people (women, always) gush about
every little thing. Someone mentions a dog and it's (sight unseen) "How
CUTE!" or the mom talks about her method of discipline and the others say
she's a great mom and knows her kids best and they're lucky to have a mom who
cares enough to ground/spank/punish them. Some people seem to really like
those lists. I think they could be automated. A search function to look for
"dog" or "teenager" or "homework" and generate some gooey mushy response.

Neopets does that. I've been on Neopets because my kids were and they showed
me a game. I've been helping Holly with some stuff. If you play with the
Neopet you've made he says you're wonderful and he's having fun. It actually
does feel kinda good for him to say "Oh boy!" or "Yummy!" or whatever.

I think there are a thousand people on this list, so if my unschooling
defense is considered too harsh by one or two of them, the other 900x can
pick up the tea-party slack if they want to, and post mushy innocuous things.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/4/03 10:49:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> can
> pick up the tea-party slack if they want to, and post mushy innocuous
> things

You know "tea party" is a bad analogy. Some time back, someone else also
used the analogy of being at a party .. and new members sort of "crashing"
it. Your right, it not a tea party. But, as you and others have so often
pointed out. It IS a party. And you have to pass the test to be invited.
Is it rude to "crash" a party or a conversation?? Does one have to sit back
and wait to be invited to join in? That is a statement open for debate.
Many members here have often said "if you post something publically, then you
should expect folks to respond" OK.. agreed 100%.. but does that mean, only
folks who have been here a certain amount of time? OH yes, Im sorry, it
does.. Because folks who have not been here long enough may cause detriment
to the fortitude of the UNSCHOOLING PHILOSOPHY as interpreted by some on
this group.

The last thing I want is to be coddled. Some folks have tactful, actually
HELPFUL ways of offering advice and insight. It's not sugar coated or
intended to pacify, its offered in genuine good will towards folks who
need/want/request input from others. I daresay no one joins this group for
a "feel good" IM OK YOUR OK type of forum. Although courtesy and maturity is
most likely expected. I also believe that no one joins to be insulted,
ignored, accused, and otherwise treated inferior.

Teresa

OH one more thing

<can
pick up the tea-party slack if they want to, and post mushy innocuous things>

Did you mean things like..

OH, thats so cool!" He is awesome! I love that! Thats so sweet! ???

cuz.. hmmm, I think I have read posts of that sort from you.. You ARE mushy
and innocuous concerning things and folks that you approve of.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Annette Marshall

Teresa,
THANK YOU!! Well said! Sorry if that comes across as
mushy or innocuous. I am on some lists that are warm
and welcoming....this list unfortunately does not have
that feel to it. I am not leaving though because I do
think there is some valuable info here for me to
glean. I am a bit surprised though at how strict and
punitive some on this list seem to be about their
"rules." I certainly am not looking for, nor do I
need, someone to pat me on the head and tell me what a
good job I am doing. But a little warmth can take us a
long way in this sometimes cold world.
Annette

Because folks who have not been here long
> enough may cause detriment
> to the fortitude of the UNSCHOOLING PHILOSOPHY as
> interpreted by some on
> this group.
>
> The last thing I want is to be coddled. Some
> folks have tactful, actually
> HELPFUL ways of offering advice and insight. It's
> not sugar coated or
> intended to pacify, its offered in genuine good will
> towards folks who
> need/want/request input from others. I daresay no
> one joins this group for
> a "feel good" IM OK YOUR OK type of forum. Although
> courtesy and maturity is
> most likely expected. I also believe that no one
> joins to be insulted,
> ignored, accused, and otherwise treated inferior.
>
> Teresa
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/4/03 9:17:40 AM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< But, as you and others have so often
pointed out. It IS a party. >>

I don't remember ever pointing out that it's a party.
I'm not asking you to go back and find quotes. If you want to, fine, but it
will be a waste of time.

<<And you have to pass the test to be invited. >>

And I *KNOW* I never ever said any such thing as that.

<<Because folks who have not been here long enough may cause detriment
to the fortitude of the UNSCHOOLING PHILOSOPHY as interpreted by some on
this group.>>

Someone who understands unschooling can be here for fifteen seconds and
contribute usefull.
Somone determined not to understand unschooling, or to resist the idea that
there's even any such thing can stay a year and still be detrimental.

It's not time, it's attitude and experience.

<<Some folks have tactful, actually
HELPFUL ways of offering advice and insight. >>

Whatever is "actually helpful" to you is what's helpful to you.
So find that, use it, and ignore the rest.

<<I daresay no one joins this group for
a "feel good" IM OK YOUR OK type of forum. >>

Seems anyone who complains that they got anything except "oooh, so sweet"
comments was disappointed in a lack of feel-good comments.

<<Did you mean things like..
OH, thats so cool!" He is awesome! I love that! Thats so sweet! ???
cuz.. hmmm, I think I have read posts of that sort from you.. You ARE mushy
and innocuous concerning things and folks that you approve of. >>

Making a hobby of obsessing about what I post will take time away from things
you could be doing with your kids.

OF COURSE I post positive comments. Lots of them. But not blindly, and not
routinely without thinking. It's not on automatic. If someone tells a
story of something I actually think is cool, I might say so. If someone
tells a story I think is not only not cool, but potentially harmful to their
children and counter to productive unschooling, I will *NOT* say cool.

I think it comes under analytical thought, and honesty.

It's not innocuous if it makes sense. It's innocuous if someone ALWAYS says
something positive no matter how much she disagrees. This list has never
been that way, but I've seen some where it seems that's the pattern for
participating. And when I've been on such a list, and read a while before
joining, I've always decided NOT to stay and waste time sugaring other people
up.

<<You ARE mushy and innocuous concerning things and folks that you approve
of. >>

If anyone is being mushy and innocuous concerning things and folks they do
*NOT* approve of, they're dishonest and not too bright.

If someone is providing positive input about things and situations (I know
very few of these folks as folks) they "approve of," that's honest
communication and should be encouraged.


Sandra

Betsy

**If you play with the
Neopet you've made he says you're wonderful and he's having fun. It
actually
does feel kinda good for him to say "Oh boy!" or "Yummy!" or whatever. **


I'm gonna get me one and put it on or near the dinner table the next
time I try to cook something new. I need more encouragement! I'll take
fake encouragement if that's all I can get.

While I (sometimes) appreciate honesty, the time may have come to have a
talk with my son about tact at the dinner table.


Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/4/03 11:32:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
momuv4sweetiepies@... writes:

> Teresa,
> THANK YOU!! Well said! Sorry if that comes across as
> mushy or innocuous.

OMG ANNETTE.. This may be mushy too.. But, I swear, I thought I was just
about the only one on this list that felt that way.. LOL.. and Ive been kind
of plugging along against the grain. I HAVE learned a lot here. And it is
worth staying for all the good stuff you glean. Gosh, just that list that
Deb posted a couple of days ago was worth several hours of brainstorming ,
and I probably STILL wouldnt have come up with so many good ideas.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

I totally agree Helen, do you know how long it took me to try and find the no mail option when I went on vacation? OK, no laughing. I don't consider myself an idiot or anything, (I have a business and English degree, Whoopie<sarcasm>) but sometimes the yahoogroups site is less than user friendly. I have gone in and searched for things too and I don't come up with what I'm looking for,,,,maybe after searching for 15 minutes.

Anyway, I think its sometime that could be looked at,

Kelli


Helen Hegener <HEM-Editor@...> wrote:At 9:20 PM -0500 1/3/03, Fetteroll wrote:
>on 1/3/03 7:24 PM, Helen Hegener at HEM-Editor@... wrote:
>
>> We do?
>
>Yes, we do. It's in the introduction. And no I didn't slip that in after you
>approved it ;-)

Ah, okay, now I remember. This is *that* list. <eg>

Maybe it's time to re-revise the intro?

>Most people I suspect don't know about the expand messages option

Then we should tell 'em. Or maybe... is there a good concise guide to
using YahooGroups anywhere? Something we could send to new
subscribers to help them get a jumpstart on all the best features? I
need to do some list maintenance tonight... I'll do some poking
around, but if anyone knows of something already available I'd sure
love to know about it (needs to be something that won't be a breach
of copyright). Or if there isn't anything out there maybe we could
all put our heads together and create one. Seems like something we
could make available on all our lists as a free public service or
something. I know it's taken me a long time to figure out what I know
about Yahoo's list services, and I'm sure there's more I could
benefit from, helpful little tips and tricks, if I knew about them.
Of course it's all right there online at the Yahoo site - but who has
time to read *that?* <g>

Helen



Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.

William Wordsworth


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/4/03 12:29:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:

> I have gone in and searched for things too and I don't come up with what I'm
> looking for,,,,maybe after searching for 15 minutes.
>

Yahoogroups CAN be a big PITA... but, for a free email based group.. they are
the best your gonna get.. As far as searching archives. ( you may already
know this, so dont think I think your inept.. lol... its something I didnt
know til I accidentally figured it out.. which is how I learned most about
yahoogroups..) Anyway.. when searching archives.. if you put the word,
phrase, whatever, you are looking for in the search box... you will get a
page of returns.. ( or maybe not. .maybe it says "no posts met your
criteria.. blah blah blah) BUT, that is only a search part of the messages!
You have to hit next or previous to get the next set of returns. It
depends on where you are in the archives when you start your search whether
to hit next or prev. If you are at the most recent messages ( last) and you
start your search, then keep hitting prev til you find what your looking
for.. If you go to the beginning ( first ) of the archives, then continue
hitting "next" til you find what you need. I've been involved with Yahoo
groups for a few years.. Owned and moderated a few.. so, if I can help,
please let me know.. :-)

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

**the other 900x can
pick up the tea-party slack if they want to, and post mushy innocuous things.**



OMG--

Let's hope that doesn't happen, I don't think I could handle it!



Kelli








SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 1/3/03 7:55:17 PM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< Basically, I think a few folks want new members to read posts and decide
if
they want to be on "thier" team or not. >>

Marty, my thirteen year old, said one day when I interjected something into a
conversation, "Fifteen minute rule, mom."

"What?"

"You should listen to a conversation for fifteen minutes so you know how it's
going before you join."

Turns out what I had said wasn't to the point, and I had misinterpreted
something I heard out of context.

I hadn't ever heard of any "fifteen minute rule," but apparently Marty's
uncle talked to him about it one time, with them telling some stories, and
Marty has observed it since.

The analogy I am familiar with and which has always made sense to me is going
to a party (not a tea party) and watching and listening a while to see what's
going on before interrupting any conversations or making any announcements.
It depends how well I know the people, but even with family and best friends
I try to check the rhythm and flow of the communication before I join.

<<I'll never
be a member of the tea party, but thats OK.. >>

I think of tea party lists as those where people (women, always) gush about
every little thing. Someone mentions a dog and it's (sight unseen) "How
CUTE!" or the mom talks about her method of discipline and the others say
she's a great mom and knows her kids best and they're lucky to have a mom who
cares enough to ground/spank/punish them. Some people seem to really like
those lists. I think they could be automated. A search function to look for
"dog" or "teenager" or "homework" and generate some gooey mushy response.

Neopets does that. I've been on Neopets because my kids were and they showed
me a game. I've been helping Holly with some stuff. If you play with the
Neopet you've made he says you're wonderful and he's having fun. It actually
does feel kinda good for him to say "Oh boy!" or "Yummy!" or whatever.

I think there are a thousand people on this list, so if my unschooling
defense is considered too harsh by one or two of them, the other 900x can
pick up the tea-party slack if they want to, and post mushy innocuous things.

Sandra

Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.

William Wordsworth


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

bluelotus

>
>
>I think there are a thousand people on this list, so if my unschooling
>defense is considered too harsh by one or two of them, the other 900x can
>pick up the tea-party slack if they want to, and post mushy innocuous things.
>
>Sandra
>
I thought a piece of a post I got on another list may be appropriate
here. It's from Benjamin Franklin's Biography:

"My list of virtues contained at first but twelve; but
a Quaker friend having kindly informed me that I was
generally thought proud, that my pride showed itself
frequently in conversation, that I was not content
with being in the right when discussing any point, but
was overbearing and rather insolent, of which he
convinced me by mentioning several instances, I
determined to endeavor to cure myself, if I could, of
this vice or folly among the rest; and I added
humility to my list, giving extensive meaning to the
word.

I cannot boast of much success in acquiring the
reality of this virtue, but I had a good deal with
regard to the appearance of it. I made it a rule to
forbear all direct contradiction to the sentiments of
others and all positive assertion of my own. I even
forbid myself, agreeably to the old laws of our Junto,
the use of every word or expression in the language
that imported a fixed opinion; such as certainly,
undoubtedly, etc., and I adopted instead of them, I
conceive, I comprehend, or I imagine, a thing to be so
or so; or it so appears to me at present. When
another asserted something that I thought an error, I
denied myself the pleasure of contradicting him
abruptly and of showing immediately some absurdity in
his proposition; and in answering I began by observing
that in certain cases or cercumstances his opinion
would be right, but in the present case there appeared
or seemed to me some difference, etc. I soon found
the advantage of this change in my manners; the
conversations I engaged in went on more pleasantly.
The modest way in which I proposed my opinions
procured them a readier reception and less
contradiction; I had less mortification when I was
found to be in the wrong; and I more easily prevailed
with others to give up their mistakes and join with me
when I happened to be in the right.

And this mode, which I at first put on with some
violence to natural inclination, became at length easy
and so habitual to me that perhaps for the last fifty
years no one has ever heard a dogmatical expression
escape me. And to this habit (after my character of
integrity) I think it principally owing that I had
early so much weight with my fellow citizens when I
proposed new institutions or alterations in the old;
and so much influence in public councils when I became
a member; for I was but a bad speaker, never eloquent,
subject to much hesitation in my choice of words,
hardly correct in language, and yet I generally
carried my point.

In reality there is, perhaps, no one of our natural
passions so hard to subdue as pride. Disguise it,
struggle with it, stifle it, mortify it as much as one
pleases, it is still alive and will every now and then
peep out and show itself; you will see it, perhaps,
often in this history. For even if I could conceive
that I had completely overcome it, I should probably
be proud of my humility."

:-)

Yol

--

Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com

Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org

**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************

Fetteroll

on 1/4/03 11:16 AM, grlynbl@... at grlynbl@... wrote:

> Is it rude to "crash" a party or a conversation?? Does one have to sit back
> and wait to be invited to join in?

The suggestion isn't meant to benefit the list. It's meant to benefit people
who join. Every group -- on line or IRL -- has a tone and style. Not every
tone and style suits everyone. It just makes sense to get a feel for the
atmosphere so someone can figure out if this list is worth their time or
not. That suggestion, or other parts of the introduction, have cut down on
the number of people who thought unschooling was synonomous with
homeschooling.

> OH yes, Im sorry, it
> does..

Sarcasm rarely enlightens and usually angers the people it seems directed
at. Sarcasm can feel like a satisfying release but if someone is posting
with the intent to find a solution to a problem they're having, I've never
seen it do anything other than make matters worse. If they're posting to
increase a problem, I'd rather they set the post aside for a day to decide
away from the heat of the moment whether it really needs said or not.

> Because folks who have not been here long enough may cause detriment
> to the fortitude of the UNSCHOOLING PHILOSOPHY as interpreted by some on
> this group.

It's easier to discuss such observations at the time rather than try to
discuss generalized observations after the fact. Then people can explain
what and why they believe something is a detriment.

> I daresay no one joins this group for
> a "feel good" IM OK YOUR OK type of forum.

People join a list for lots of reasons. Sometimes it is to find an "IM OK
YOUR OK type of forum". The new introduction seems to have helped people
steer clear of this type of list when they were looking for something else.

Joyce

Peggy

> I think of tea party lists as those where people (women, always) gush about
> every little thing. Someone mentions a dog and it's (sight unseen) "How
> CUTE!" or the mom talks about her method of discipline and the others say
> she's a great mom and knows her kids best and they're lucky to have a mom who
> cares enough to ground/spank/punish them. Some people seem to really like
> those lists. I think they could be automated. A search function to look for
> "dog" or "teenager" or "homework" and generate some gooey mushy response.


BWAH!!!! But, it is so comforting to be right and accepted and supported!

And yet that doesn't help people to recognize that the way they learned in the
past wasn't necessarily the best or the only way to learn. I think we parents
learn more asking ourselves new questions rather than patting ourselves on the
back and assuring ourselves that increasing our comfort level is what being a
parent is *really* all about.

I think part of the problem with seeing that sometimes is that we were trained
like cute little seals as children to perform for our own teachers and
parents; so *that's* how we view success. Letting go of those preconceptions
so own children can define their own success is really hard.

Peggy

Fetteroll

on 1/4/03 2:28 PM, bluelotus at bluelotus@... wrote:

> I thought a piece of a post I got on another list may be appropriate
> here. It's from Benjamin Franklin's Biography:

The only purpose I can think of for posting this at this time is as a
suggestion that some people need to take Ben's advice and do as he did.

That might be appropriate on a list where people are asking for help
changing how they relate to others. But it's not. It's an unschooling list
were people come to talk about and get help understanding unschooling.

As long as people are giving sound unschooling advice in a way that greatly
benefits some people, isn't it arrogant to presume that they need to change
because we don't like the way they are?

Someone recommended a book that I wish I could remember the title of where
the author said there were 3 things that were sources of anger and
frusration: acts of God/nature, other people and ourselves. It's only
ourselves that we have any control over. Getting stressed because nature or
other people aren't behaving as we wish they would or think they should
fills us full of negative energy that has only a negative effect on us and
those around us.

That might be seen as a suggestion that people should change. I hope it's
seen as a suggestion on how to get off this negative path and back on the
path to discussing unschooling.

Joyce

bluelotus

> I thought a piece of a post I got on another list may be appropriate
> here. It's from Benjamin Franklin's Biography


<<The only purpose I can think of for posting this at this time is as a
suggestion that some people need to take Ben's advice and do as he did.

That might be appropriate on a list where people are asking for help
changing how they relate to others. But it's not. It's an unschooling list
were people come to talk about and get help understanding unschooling.>>

Yes, Joyce, I know I am always talking about things that don't seem *appropriate* to this list, but I thought Ben's words would be appropriate for some, if not most of us (aside the fact that I think it's a cool quote anyways), before we start again on the road to arguing, labeling, pointing fingers or insulting.

<<That might be seen as a suggestion that people should change. I hope it's
seen as a suggestion on how to get off this negative path and back on the
path to discussing unschooling.>>

There was no suggestion whatsoever. It made me think when I read it, and I thought it would be thought provoking for other people as well. Sorry if it's not about unschooling per se. To me, unschooling also encompasses an internal process where I *unschool* myself from my preconceived ideas and fixed notions, or repetitive responses to others and life.

I've seen discussions here that are not about unschooling... which men/actors are "doable" and which aren't, what actors are sexy, etc. Anyway, perhaps I should just go to lurk mode now.

Yol

--

Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com

Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org

**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************