[email protected]

My husband took the kids to do the remaining Christmas shopping today. He
couldn't find a double stroller cart at Kohls and our daughter ran away from
him. Both kids do this from time to time, my son is four and my daughter is
three.

This time it was a huge store and Mark really couldn't find her. He asked a
clerk, couldn't describe Julia, was worried that Nathan was about to bolt too
and was just in a fog looking for her and panicking. He vaguely remembers an
announcement over the PA but has no idea of they secured the exits. Ten
minutes later (for some reason he looked at his watch), another female clerk
came up holding Julia's hand. "Is this your daughter?" Why didn't she ask
Julia if Mark was her father???

Ok, so my issue isn't with the store, but with the child. Both kids
actually. One of my biggest fears in taking them to huge public places alone
is that I wont be able to keep track of them. They are too young, at least
Julia is, to understand the danger. And I don't want to scare them too much.
But whatever we have said in the past hasn't worked. They understand that
it scares us, that we might not be able to find them, that something bad
could happen. Or at least, we have told them that. I'm not at all sure they
understand.

Help, help, help. I love to give them the freedom to walk in stores instead
of being secured to a stroller or cart. They are pretty respectful of stuff
and have never broken anything. But should I strap them in? Remember, I'm
walking slowly and mostly with one crutch. They are so tired of sitting
around at home.

Any advice you can give me would be appreciated. I would have been a basket
case if that had happened to me. I remember locking Nathan in the car when
they were about a little less than two and three. I stood there in a silent
scream next to my car with Julia in the stroller, hands glued to my face,
tears streaming down, unable to move or utter a sound. Luckily, several
women and a non-English speaking lawn maintenance guy came out of nowhere to
help.

I thought we were over this stage!

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/2002 5:56:43 PM Central Standard Time,
ejcrewe@... writes:

> Help, help, help. I love to give them the freedom to walk in stores instead
>
> of being secured to a stroller or cart. They are pretty respectful of
> stuff
> and have never broken anything. But should I strap them in? Remember, I'm
>
> walking slowly and mostly with one crutch. They are so tired of sitting
> around at home.
>

ew, what a dilemma. I think I'd try to stay home if I could. Alternatively,
I'd find a place to take them where I could let them just go (a park with a
fence? A McDonald's Play place? even though I hate those).

Can the older one be shown boundaries (be able to hear his voice, or within
sight or no farther away than the other end of an aisle) and you hold on
tight to the little one?

I don't understand why your hubby was worried about the bigger one getting
away after the little one ran off? Why didn't he grab him right away?

I lost Jake in K-Mart when he was 18 months old. He was toddling around
behind me, and he went one way and I went the other. We were each looking
for each other, but he going the opposite direction and having near misses.
An employee found him just as I was running towards the front to get a page
going. This was 19 years ago, before they had all the "procedures" for such
a thing. It is heart-stopping.

Prevention and anticipation is the only thing I can think of. Anticipate
how/when it might happen by knowing what attracts them, and divert attention
or whatever.

Hope your leg heals fast!

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/2002 6:13:44 PM Central Standard Time,
tuckervill@... writes:


> I don't understand why your hubby was worried about the bigger one getting
> away after the little one ran off? Why didn't he grab him right away?

He strapped Nathan into the stroller cart thing as soon as he realized he
wasn't going to be able to catch up with Julia.

I've used a jump rope before, having them hold onto it while we walked
somewhere, that might work with crutches. But they can still just let go.
Maybe I'll just strap them in the stroller until they get it. At what age do
kids get it?

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

When my daughter was just a little one herself, Adam Walsh was abducted and
killed. It happened in the same shopping plaza we shopped in and still do
now. My daughter at that time would love to hide in the clothing racks and
not answer when called. After that happened to the little Walsh boy, I
explained to her not in great detail what happened. I told her some people
will take little children and hurt them. It was very important that she not
leave my sight. If she couldn't see me, than I couldn't see her.

I've done that with all 3 younger ones. I make them understand from early on
how dangerous it could be for them to be away from me in a store. They also
understand procedures if they are at sports camp and someone asks them to go
with them, whether it's someone they know or not. We've gone over what to do
in case someone does try to take them and even what to do if they find
themselves in a car with a stranger. I felt bad about having to deal with
such things and little children, but I've seen too much sorrow with kids
being taking in just a matter of a minute. I take the precaution. If I have
to go out shopping with all 3, I take another pair of eyes. And my kids are
2, 7 and 8. Even at that age, I need to keep track of them. If I can't have
someone with me, I put the youngest in a stroller or buggy. I may let her
out in the toy aisle and make sure all 3 stay with me. Rather have them
upset with me about that then go through losing them. Of course now my kids
know enough to be careful. Even the 2 year old understands. But when I need
to shop as in look for something, she's in the buggy.

I don't think I've scared them silly. I use to worry about my oldest and
such things but she has grown up understanding even now, at 17 how important
it is to be aware. She uses her head now as she has learned form early on.
Not just children get abducted.

I say do what it takes to make sure the kids stay safe.

Mary B






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Nora or Devereaux Cannon

Once ours got to be about 2-3, we had to address just how free
they would be in public places. The week before Christmas is NOT
a good time to learn the skills, LOL. What we agreed on is
counting. I did not want to call their names, lest some stranger
say "Hi Johnny, your Mom is right over here" and abscond with
them. I demonstrated for them the "count" as done by a parent
planning to whale the living day lights out of a child. When
they heard it in my voice, they learned they were to make contact
ASAP. If they didn't or couldn't remember, then we did the
freedom/responsibility conversation at their level of
understanding. It amuses me to see folks assume that I am about
to spank a child, when we are using a code for their freedom to
roam.
----- Original Message -----
From: <ejcrewe@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:55 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Three year old running away in
crowds


| My husband took the kids to do the remaining Christmas shopping
today. He
| couldn't find a double stroller cart at Kohls and our daughter
ran away from
| him. Both kids do this from time to time, my son is four and
my daughter is
| three.
|
| This time it was a huge store and Mark really couldn't find
her. He asked a
| clerk, couldn't describe Julia, was worried that Nathan was
about to bolt too
| and was just in a fog looking for her and panicking. He
vaguely remembers an
| announcement over the PA but has no idea of they secured the
exits. Ten
| minutes later (for some reason he looked at his watch), another
female clerk
| came up holding Julia's hand. "Is this your daughter?" Why
didn't she ask
| Julia if Mark was her father???
|
| Ok, so my issue isn't with the store, but with the child. Both
kids
| actually. One of my biggest fears in taking them to huge
public places alone
| is that I wont be able to keep track of them. They are too
young, at least
| Julia is, to understand the danger. And I don't want to scare
them too much.
| But whatever we have said in the past hasn't worked. They
understand that
| it scares us, that we might not be able to find them, that
something bad
| could happen. Or at least, we have told them that. I'm not at
all sure they
| understand.
|
| Help, help, help. I love to give them the freedom to walk in
stores instead
| of being secured to a stroller or cart. They are pretty
respectful of stuff
| and have never broken anything. But should I strap them in?
Remember, I'm
| walking slowly and mostly with one crutch. They are so tired
of sitting
| around at home.
|
| Any advice you can give me would be appreciated. I would have
been a basket
| case if that had happened to me. I remember locking Nathan in
the car when
| they were about a little less than two and three. I stood
there in a silent
| scream next to my car with Julia in the stroller, hands glued
to my face,
| tears streaming down, unable to move or utter a sound.
Luckily, several
| women and a non-English speaking lawn maintenance guy came out
of nowhere to
| help.
|
| I thought we were over this stage!
|
| Elizabeth
|
|
| [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
| If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
(fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener
(HEM-Editor@...).
|
| To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
| [email protected]
|
| Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
|
| Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/2002 7:39:23 PM Central Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:


> I say do what it takes to make sure the kids stay safe.
>
>

Thanks Mary. I guess I should just tell them what can really happen. And if
it sinks in, then we are ok. I try not to take them on long, boring shopping
trips. And we usually go during the week when its not so crowded. That
helps.

I sent your message to my husband, too.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rachel Ann

One thing my dh and I do when we have young kids who we are taking into
crowded situations, and who can't yet tell their phone number etc. or can,
but may be too upset to do so, is to give them my dh's business card, or
some other such device, either pinning it on in the case of a very young
child, or letting them keep it in their pocket etc.

When we went to the Rally for Israel, as we were in a different state, we
had my daughter's cell phone on it (she was with us) as well as my dh's
phone numbers (he was home) and where to meet us in case we got separated.

Just a suggestion.



be well,
Rachel Ann






-------Original Message-------

From: [email protected]
Date: Saturday, December 21, 2002 22:17:05
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Three year old running away in crowds

In a message dated 12/21/2002 7:39:23 PM Central Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:


> I say do what it takes to make sure the kids stay safe.
>
>

Thanks Mary. I guess I should just tell them what can really happen. And if
it sinks in, then we are ok. I try not to take them on long, boring shopping

trips. And we usually go during the week when its not so crowded. That
helps.

I sent your message to my husband, too.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/


.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I have a 4 year old daughter and a 3 year old son. I tell them before they
get in the car, and when we're in the store that they have to stay with me at
all times or we will leave. If they go away from me, we leave. It works for
me. They haven't left my side for a long time. I keep reminding them over
and over. I also explain why it's important to stay close to me. I don't
think it makes them scared or worried. I tell them it's important to stay
close to me and not run away because they could get lost, and that most
people are nice but there are not-so-nice people out there that may want to
take you away from me and I'll never see you again.

This may or may not work for your children. I find that if my children do
something wrong there has to be a consequence, even though the consequence
may be hard on me too.

I hope this helps!!

Patti


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/22/02 9:13:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
HappyMato2@... writes:

> . I find that if my children do
> something wrong there has to be a consequence, even though the consequence
> may be hard on me too.
>
>

I find if my children do something wrong, there is ALWAYS a consequence!
( I realize the content that this was said in AND the ages involved, I just
had a thought.) Getting lost IS the consequence. Feeling scared IS the
consequence. and what caused it? Me. I became distracted or busy or I didn't
pay enough attention.
Not because I am a ditzbrain or don't care or am lazy, but because I came
into the store to do something specific. So my little one stays in the cart
or with someone who CAN watch him. I don't think that a child getting away in
the store is doing something "wrong", he is exploring and learning! Seeing
what is cool and interesting in his world.. So it's important to let him have
that freedom, when I am free to pay attention. When I am done with what I
have to do, or sooner if it becomes evident that my child would like to have
a little freedom and I am taking F o r e v e r ! 10 minutes debating over
orange vs. purple towels is WAY longer to the kids than to us.
Thye reason this captured my attention is because of my sensitivity to
negative thoughts and words, no matter who subtly negative.
It's not the child who is doing something wrong or misbehaving. They are
doing what they are supposed to do as children. The little girl who took off
may have had no inkling that that was scary or worrisome, and may have been
very surprised to see Dad's reaction.
Something I am working hard on is remembering to act on what I believe so
strongly. That Kids Come First. They need to do what they desire just as much
as I do. I can be "in charge" and tell them what they can and can't do, OR I
can work their needs in so that they get to do, see, touch, move as much as
I.
That's one of the few reasons that the superstores are good, I can throw BOTH
towels in the bigass cart and debate the colors while standing in the toy
section!
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/2002 7:39:10 PM Central Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:

> I don't think I've scared them silly. I use to worry about my oldest and
> such things but she has grown up understanding even now, at 17 how
> important
> it is to be aware. She uses her head now as she has learned form early on.
> Not just children get abducted.
>

Yeah. I've posted this before, I think. <A HREF="www.escapeschool.com">www.escapeschool.com</A>

Will and I were talking about fire safety the other day. He said there was
one thing we forgot to do when we moved into our new place, and that was
designate a location to meet outside if the house caught on fire and we all
had to get out separately. I was happy about his matter-of-factness. We
talked a little again about how you don't go back in for pets or for anyone
else. He doesn't worry about a house fire, he's just prepared as best he can
be.

In my mind I was wondering why I still have a bit of worry about scaring him
when it comes to abduction and molestation. We use a password system when we
have to be apart (he's too old to go in the ladies room with me anymore).
We've talked about how to disable a car, how to get other people's attention
if he's been kidnapped. All stuff I got from that website. But I still
worry about him becoming scared and living in fear. I'm trying to get over
that.

I know plenty of moms who have such an aura of fear around their kids when
they're out in public, it's worrisome. They are telegraphing so much fear
that their blood pressure has to be rising. That just can't be good for
their kids or themselves. I don't want Will to get the idea that there are
bad guys lurking around every corner, you know?

So I'm thinking that if he can talk about such stuff like he talks about fire
safety and what to do then, he's going to be all right. But I have a lot of
work to do on my own emotions about that stuff before I can even approach him
most of the time.

That's one of the best things I learned from the website...not to be afraid
to discuss it, and it to treat abduction issues like we do other safety
things, while not transmitting our overt fear as well.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/02 9:26:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dcannon@... writes:

> I demonstrated for them the "count" as done by a parent
> planning to whale the living day lights out of a child. When
> they heard it in my voice, they learned they were to make contact
> ASAP.

That is a good idea. When my boys were younger I jsut never took them out
without someone else with me.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: ejcrewe@...

<<I say do what it takes to make sure the kids stay safe.>>

<<Thanks Mary. I guess I should just tell them what can really happen. And
if it sinks in, then we are ok. I try not to take them on long, boring
shopping trips. And we usually go during the week when its not so crowded.
That helps.>>


Thank you for not thinking I meant to like beat them into listening. After I
read it I thought maybe some might get the wrong impression. Of course I
don't make things up to scare the hell out of them either. But when I
thought it was necessary I would let them know about certain events that
happened and we would talk about how we or they would handle that if it came
up. I don't really force info on my kids, but when it comes to this, I do
what I need to do so they understand. Like I said, my 17 year old was never
traumatized but still very aware of safety. Heck, I even look around in my
own driveway before I get out of the van. Common sense.

Mary B


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[email protected]

Cell phone number in the pocket, what a great idea! Thanks.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/22/2002 8:13:18 AM Central Standard Time,
HappyMato2@... writes:


> I tell them before they
> get in the car, and when we're in the store that they have to stay with me
> at
> all times or we will leave. If they go away from me, we leave.

Yes, I agree with this approach. I think part of the problem was that they
were with my husband, not with me. And he said he almost turned around and
left when there weren't any double carts. He should have. Plus, it was
crowded and loud, they aren't good in loud situations.

We dont' shop often, it's not a great past time with me. Mostly we go to
Trader Joes, which is small, for groceries and they push their own carts. Or
we go to Target and they sit in one of those double cart things and pretend
like they are in a parade, waving and all. I should have known better than
to send them all out the last Saturday before Christmas!

Thanks for your advice. It's good to meet another mom of 3 and 4 year olds.
I love having them this close together, most of the time. The first six
months of my 3 year old's life, however, are a complete blur.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/22/2002 8:36:07 AM Central Standard Time,
Earthmomma67@... writes:


> The little girl who took off
> may have had no inkling that that was scary or worrisome, and may have been
>
> very surprised to see Dad's reaction.
>

Elissa,

I agree with you completely. Julia in no way did it to scare her father or
to be a pest. She just wandered off, maybe running towards something
interesting to her. And frankly, a display of ceramic coffee mugs would not
have been interesting even to me!

They have never had any separation anxiety until I broke my ankle and had
nannies running around. Never cried when we left, always assumed we would be
back. And she just assumed that her father would find her. Which he did. I
think she was a bit scared, but she says she wasn't. That's consequence
enough for us.

From her point of view, nothing bad happened. From our point of view, it was
a near miss. And an eye opener. And a guilt and anxiety producer. And
hopefully something we will learn from.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>I find if my children do something wrong, there is ALWAYS a consequence!
( I realize the content that this was said in AND the ages involved, I just
had a thought.) Getting lost IS the consequence. Feeling scared IS the
consequence. and what caused it? Me. I became distracted or busy or I didn't
pay enough attention.

Yes, sometimes getting lost teaches children not to do it again and feeling
scared does too, but there are many instances I've seen where the child took
off and was where they wanted to be and wasn't scared or in their opinion
lost. They were where they wanted to be.

I agree that 3 and 4 are young, but we often don't realize that kids can
understand and learn more than what we think. I realize in my post that I
came across as someone who uses a "negative" approach most of the time.
Actually, I use distraction, a lot of praise and attention, food and snacks
for long shopping times, and I always thank them for helping me, for
listening to me, and for behaving in a public place. It's been a long time
since I had any problems with my children at a public place. I can take them
to nice restaurants, departments stores, libraries and other places without
worrying or dealing with misbehavior. We all have a wonderful time. They
understand there are times and places where they can do certain things, and
time and places where they are expected to behave in a certain manner. I
teach them that it's important for them to tell me about what they want to
do, how they're feeling, and if they need something, instead of throwing a
temper tantrum or running off. My children are also 3 and 4. We were
recently in a Meijer department store and my daughter took a few steps away
from me to go and look at a few Dora toys. She stopped and turned around and
asked me if she could look at them. I told her sure we can do that.

Also, the consequence for having to leave a public place because my children
won't stay with me is because once they won't listen and I can't insure their
safety, I feel we'd better leave. It's true I could strap them in a cart,
but my kids don't like being in carts, especially for long outings. In this
situation, I feel we misewell just leave. I want my children to explore and
have fun in public places instead of having to be strapped in. That's why I
taught them at an early age to stay with me at all times. Children's
maturity may play an important part in that, or their behavior. Some
children are very spontaneous, active, and/or have a hard time listening to
authority. These children may need to be kept at home if mommy or daddy
can't watch them carefully.


>Not because I am a ditzbrain or don't care or am lazy, but because I came
into the store to do something specific. So my little one stays in the cart
or with someone who CAN watch him. I don't think that a child getting away in
the store is doing something "wrong", he is exploring and learning! Seeing
what is cool and interesting in his world.. So it's important to let him have
that freedom, when I am free to pay attention.

I agree that often times its the parents who are at fault for their chidren's
behavior. One thing I've noticed, at least with my children and with others,
is once they taste the sweet flavor of freedom, they don't want to be in the
cart even for a few minutes. It's true that for their safety, they can stay
in the cart, no matter what temper tantrum and whining and crying they do,
but it doesn't make a very pleasant time for anyone.

I happen to disagree that a child taking off has not done something wrong,
depending on the child and what the child has been taught. Children at that
age can learn and understand why it's important to stay with mommy or daddy.
I'm not saying that parents can be oblivious to what their children are doing
while they're in a public place and expect children to always remember and
follow their instructions. I remind them, have them help me choose things,
talk with them, aks them questions, etc. There is no parent who wants to
experience the horror and feeling when their child is out of sight at a
public place, but most parents have at least once. I know when I had that
scary feeling happen to me I decided it would never happen again.

Something I am working hard on is remembering to act on what I believe so
strongly. That Kids Come First. They need to do what they desire just as much
as I do. I can be "in charge" and tell them what they can and can't do, OR I
can work their needs in so that they get to do, see, touch, move as much as
I.
That's one of the few reasons that the superstores are good, I can throw BOTH
towels in the bigass cart and debate the colors while standing in the toy
section!

I strongly agree that kids come first, but what does that mean and at what
expense. I know there's a method out there that teaches parents to let their
kids explore, never use any negative connotations, and let them be creative
and explore all they want. I've seen kids who have been raised this way to
an extreme and I don't want my kids to grow up like that. They have no
respect for others feelings and belongings. They do what they want, no
matter who it might bother, upset, or hurt. The children I'm talking about
had parents who went to the extreme. I'm not saying you are this way. No
one would ever want to be around these kids, and they could not find any
babysitters. They could not go anywhere with them without embarassment,
tantrums and a lot of hassles. I love children and I realize that their
behavior is not their fault, but I can't stand to be around these children.
They break toys with no remorse, throw things to see how neat a golf ball can
bounce on the wall and hit a kid in the head, color on walls and toys, and
ignore and have no respect for anyone's feelings or adult authority. They do
all these things because the parents taught them that they are more important
than anyone else and if they want to be creative by taking apart a friend's
toy, or running and jumping up and down a restaurant aisle, that it's okay
because parents shouldn't tell their children what to do and how to behave.
As a parent, I feel we need to use a combination of different methods to help
our children explore, learn, and understand the world we live in. We don't
live in a world where we can do whatever we want at all times. My children
are happy and wonderful to be around. I don't think I stifle their
curiosities, their need for exploration, and their desire to learn about the
world around them. They have many opportunities to do this.

Patti



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I do love having my children close together. One thing that used to bother
me was people's reaction when they would ask how close they are and I would
tell them. I would get comments like "aren't you crazy", "I bet you're hands
are full", "I'm glad mine aren't close together". As I got better at
replying to their stupid comments, I would say things like "better my hands
full than empty", "I'm not crazy, just a happy mother", "It's true that
having children close in age brings on many challenges, and patience is very
important. It's good that your kids aren't close in age if you feel you
couldn't handle it. I'm handling it just fine."

Have you ever had strangers or others make comments like this? I find it to
be rude sometimes on their part. I know they are not trying to be hurtful,
but sometimes their tone and facial expressions are very hurtful. I have no
regrets having this close.

I'm glad you thought my advice was or might be helpful. As parents, we all
are just learning. I feel a good parent is one who learns from mistakes,
tries different things if one thing isn't working, shows lots of love, and is
unselfish. It's not easy.

Patti


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/22/02 2:26:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, ejcrewe@...
writes:

> From her point of view, nothing bad happened. From our point of view, it
> was
> a near miss. And an eye opener. And a guilt and anxiety producer. And
> hopefully something we will learn from.
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
>

I think you have.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/22/02 3:03:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
HappyMato2@... writes:

> Have you ever had strangers or others make comments like this? I find it to
>
> be rude sometimes on their part. I know they are not trying to be hurtful,
>
> but sometimes their tone and facial expressions are very hurtful. I have
> no
> regrets having this close.
>

I have always gotten those kinds of comments regarding the size of my family.
I have 4 children and most folks think anything over 2 is insane. I pretty
much handle it like you do.. make some postive comment about having a large
family and just let it go.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: HappyMato2@...

<<Have you ever had strangers or others make comments like this? I find it
to be rude sometimes on their part. I know they are not trying to be
hurtful, but sometimes their tone and facial expressions are very hurtful.
I have no regrets having this close.>>


I get comments like this all the time. When the 6 and 7 year olds were
younger, I got it because of them being 13 months apart. Now that they are
older, I get it for just having 4 children. When the subject comes up and I
mention that I would love to another one, I really get the comments. I've
actually had people ask me if I was crazy! Nice huh?

Sometimes people laugh and say they could never handle more than two and
some people actually seem horrified. I have said to those people on occasion
that it's an awful thing to say to someone. Hell if they are that rude, what
do I care what I say?

I make it a point to tell people I speak to how wonderful that they are
having another child or that they have a big family when I see it. Strangers
that I see in stores. They always seem so happy to have some support and to
hear people say how wonderful. I assume they hear the bad stuff like I do
too.

Mary B


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[email protected]

In a message dated 12/22/02 5:25:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:

> When the subject comes up and I
> mention that I would love to another one, I really get the comments. I've
> actually had people ask me if I was crazy! Nice huh?
>

SAME HERE!!.. Dont that just drive you nuts!.. Speaking of nuts, we cant have
any more kids anyway, Dh had his snipped after #4. I've thought a lot about
adoption though...

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/21/2002 9:26:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dcannon@... writes:
> Once ours got to be about 2-3, we had to address just how free
> they would be in public places. The week before Christmas is NOT
> a good time to learn the skills, LOL. What we agreed on is
> counting. I did not want to call their names, lest some stranger
> say "Hi Johnny, your Mom is right over here" and abscond with
> them. I demonstrated for them the "count" as done by a parent
> planning to whale the living day lights out of a child. When
> they heard it in my voice, they learned they were to make contact
> ASAP. If they didn't or couldn't remember, then we did the
> freedom/responsibility conversation at their level of
> understanding. It amuses me to see folks assume that I am about
> to spank a child, when we are using a code for their freedom to
> roam.

We use "Cameron Check". And now "Duncan Check". No matter where we are, if I
holler "Cameron Check", there should be a "Mommy Check" yelled right back. My
concern was that if he were too engrossed in whatever he was doing, he might
not WANT to answer because he might be afraid that I'd take him away from
whatever it was he was doing. The "Cameron Check" is ONLY to make sure he's
nearby. I've used it at parks when he's out of sight, in the back yard, at
stores (though I'm never THAT far away), at ballgames, and even in the house
when I just need to locate him. There's never the possibility that I'll take
him away or stop him from playing---it's just a check.

Cameron now uses it with Duncan when he's watching (or not! <G>) Duncan. It's
peace of mind.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: grlynbl@...

>>SAME HERE!!.. Dont that just drive you nuts!.. Speaking of nuts, we cant
>>have any more kids anyway, Dh had his snipped after #4.>>

LOL!!! That was a good one!! Well we're all intact here but we really can't
afford to have another one now. We have no room and can't afford to move
into a bigger house. The running joke around here is that we can't have
another baby until Tara moves out or grandma dies! My mom has an in law apt.
attached to our house. My mom is in on the joke so it's okay!

<<I've thought a lot about adoption though...>>

Me too if I'm just too old by the time we do have the room.....or hit the
lotto!

Maey B


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[email protected]

In a message dated 12/22/2002 2:03:23 PM Central Standard Time,
HappyMato2@... writes:


> Have you ever had strangers or others make comments like this? I find it to
>
> be rude sometimes on their part. I know they are not trying to be hurtful,
>
> but sometimes their tone and facial expressions are very hurtful. I have
> no
> regrets having this close.
>

I get the "your hands are full" comment all the time. And the Irish Twins
label. But now that they are older and my three year old is so much shorter
than the four year old, they look to strangers like they are the socially
acceptable two years apart.

I remember a day at the park when I saw a Mom of a baby 9 months pregnant
with her next. One of my kids was on the slides, the other on the swings, so
she didn't see them both. When I asked how far apart they would be, I saw
the look of dread on her face. She cried when I told her that mine were one
year apart and that I felt it was the most joyous thing I had ever
experienced.

People are compelled to comment, for whatever reason. I just amuse them.
The best comment I ever got was when my mail carrier rang the doorbell with a
box after Julia was born. She didn't need a signature, she just wanted to
see the baby. I came up nursing Julia and carrying Nathan. She said "What
could be more perfect than that!"

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>I have always gotten those kinds of comments regarding the size of my
family.
I have 4 children and most folks think anything over 2 is insane. I pretty
much handle it like you do.. make some postive comment about having a large
family and just let it go.

Yes, That's all we can do. I don't think anyone's nuts for having a large
family. If I could, I would have one too.

Patti


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>I make it a point to tell people I speak to how wonderful that they are
having another child or that they have a big family when I see it. Strangers
that I see in stores. They always seem so happy to have some support and to
hear people say how wonderful. I assume they hear the bad stuff like I do
too.

I do that too. I love seeing families together, whether it's a small family
or a large family, but I love speaking to strangers about their families who
have children close in age or a large family. I think it's a nice change to
hear something positive from others.

Patti



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

SAME HERE!!.. Dont that just drive you nuts!.. Speaking of nuts, we cant have
any more kids anyway, Dh had his snipped after #4. I've thought a lot about
adoption though...

Are you nuts! I'm just kidding. I know if I were to mention that to any of
my relatives they would think I definately went off the deep end.

Patti


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/23/02 8:03:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, ejcrewe@...
writes:


> People are compelled to comment, for whatever reason. I just amuse them.
> The best comment I ever got was when my mail carrier rang the doorbell with
> a
> box after Julia was born. She didn't need a signature, she just wanted to
> see the baby. I came up nursing Julia and carrying Nathan. She said "What
> could be more perfect than that!"


I remember and love those days of nursing and carrying the other. I'm a very
small person so it must have looked funny to others, I'm not sure. I enjoyed
the early, baby years, but it definately was a challenge sometimes. I would
not do anything differently. When I see them together now, and when they
were babies, I'm glad for my decision.

Patti






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nora or Devereaux Cannon

Same idea - I just avoid using a name, lest someone else also use
it. Kids love the idea of a "private language" IME.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kbcdlovejo@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Three year old running away in
crowds


| In a message dated 12/21/2002 9:26:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
| dcannon@... writes:
| > Once ours got to be about 2-3, we had to address just how
free
| > they would be in public places. The week before Christmas is
NOT
| > a good time to learn the skills, LOL. What we agreed on is
| > counting. I did not want to call their names, lest some
stranger
| > say "Hi Johnny, your Mom is right over here" and abscond with
| > them. I demonstrated for them the "count" as done by a
parent
| > planning to whale the living day lights out of a child. When
| > they heard it in my voice, they learned they were to make
contact
| > ASAP. If they didn't or couldn't remember, then we did the
| > freedom/responsibility conversation at their level of
| > understanding. It amuses me to see folks assume that I am
about
| > to spank a child, when we are using a code for their freedom
to
| > roam.
|
| We use "Cameron Check". And now "Duncan Check". No matter where
we are, if I
| holler "Cameron Check", there should be a "Mommy Check" yelled
right back. My
| concern was that if he were too engrossed in whatever he was
doing, he might
| not WANT to answer because he might be afraid that I'd take him
away from
| whatever it was he was doing. The "Cameron Check" is ONLY to
make sure he's
| nearby. I've used it at parks when he's out of sight, in the
back yard, at
| stores (though I'm never THAT far away), at ballgames, and even
in the house
| when I just need to locate him. There's never the possibility
that I'll take
| him away or stop him from playing---it's just a check.
|
| Cameron now uses it with Duncan when he's watching (or not!
<G>) Duncan. It's
| peace of mind.
|
| ~Kelly
|
|
| [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
|
| ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject
line! ~~~~
|
| If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
(fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener
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|
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|
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|
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|

Anne B <[email protected]>

When my dd was age 2-5, dh travelled a lot, and we were frequently at
the airport to drop him off and pick him up. How easy it is for two
people to get separated in the rush of people going in all directions!
I found a harness with a leash, for lack of a better description,
that dd could wear. (It was in the infant/toddler section at Target,
I think.) If anyone tried to get in between us, that strap prevented
it. It was hot pink of course, so very visible. It allowed dd to
walk in freedom, yet stay close by me. It sounds like I was treating
my child like an animal, but it worked very well, and was much safer
than the straps with two velcro wrist wraps that can easily be taken
off. Just an idea.

BTW, in public restrooms when one of us is still in a stall, the other
stands outside the stall door with her foot sticking under the door.
Very easy to know where each other is.

Anne in MN.