park day and school kids
Mary Bianco
I had my local focus group park day yesterday. I'm in charge so I make it a
point to always be there. Unfortunately, the locals don't feel the same way.
Me and the kids were the only ones that showed up. Maybe it was the cold
that kept everyone away. It was in the low 70's. <BEG>
Anyway, I told my kids they could play and when they all decided they wren't
having fun anymore, we would leave. Well a school bus came with kids and
they were about 5-6 years old. My three, who quickly make friends no matter
what the age is, were having a blast. The kids were there on the playground
for about 45 minutes. They had lunch previously in the pavillion. The
teachers rounded them all up and they left.
My son came over and started to refelct as he always does on the situation.
He thought it was so sad that he made new friends and they were all having
such fun and then they had to leave. Even when they didn't want to. He asked
what they would be going back to do. I explained again what school is. It's
hard for him I guess to imagine such a thing. He again mentioned how sad it
was that the kids only got to play for such a short while every day. When I
explained that this park thing was probably not an every day outting for
them, he felt even worse. He just couldn't get why kids have to do such
things.
They quickly made new friends with two little boys that were maybe playing
hooky or just off for the day. They were about 6 and 8. When they had to
leave, the kids found a birthday party of kids about 5 years old and played
with them.
Being I had no one I knew to talk with I was able to observe more than
usual. I heard all these moms talking about not being able to wait to send
some of their kids to school next year. Some of the kids were 4. I watched
as some mothers hovered over the kids directing them and some gave them no
attention at all. I heard moms counting to 3 when problems arose. I saw kids
throwing fits and parents dragging them away kicking and screaming. I saw
all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find sticks and started
"shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you" and "I just shot you in the
back."
Boy did we all learn an awful lot yesterday at the park.
Mary B
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point to always be there. Unfortunately, the locals don't feel the same way.
Me and the kids were the only ones that showed up. Maybe it was the cold
that kept everyone away. It was in the low 70's. <BEG>
Anyway, I told my kids they could play and when they all decided they wren't
having fun anymore, we would leave. Well a school bus came with kids and
they were about 5-6 years old. My three, who quickly make friends no matter
what the age is, were having a blast. The kids were there on the playground
for about 45 minutes. They had lunch previously in the pavillion. The
teachers rounded them all up and they left.
My son came over and started to refelct as he always does on the situation.
He thought it was so sad that he made new friends and they were all having
such fun and then they had to leave. Even when they didn't want to. He asked
what they would be going back to do. I explained again what school is. It's
hard for him I guess to imagine such a thing. He again mentioned how sad it
was that the kids only got to play for such a short while every day. When I
explained that this park thing was probably not an every day outting for
them, he felt even worse. He just couldn't get why kids have to do such
things.
They quickly made new friends with two little boys that were maybe playing
hooky or just off for the day. They were about 6 and 8. When they had to
leave, the kids found a birthday party of kids about 5 years old and played
with them.
Being I had no one I knew to talk with I was able to observe more than
usual. I heard all these moms talking about not being able to wait to send
some of their kids to school next year. Some of the kids were 4. I watched
as some mothers hovered over the kids directing them and some gave them no
attention at all. I heard moms counting to 3 when problems arose. I saw kids
throwing fits and parents dragging them away kicking and screaming. I saw
all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find sticks and started
"shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you" and "I just shot you in the
back."
Boy did we all learn an awful lot yesterday at the park.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
kayb85 <[email protected]>
> I had my local focus group park day yesterday. I'm in charge so Imake it a
> point to always be there. Unfortunately, the locals don't feel thesame way.
> Me and the kids were the only ones that showed up. Maybe it was thecold
> that kept everyone away. It was in the low 70's. <BEG>I know how you feel--I've already organized park days for
homeschoolers in the area to have no one show up.
> Anyway, I told my kids they could play and when they all decidedthey wren't
> having fun anymore, we would leave. Well a school bus came withkids and
> they were about 5-6 years old. My three, who quickly make friendsno matter
> what the age is, were having a blast. The kids were there on theplayground
> for about 45 minutes. They had lunch previously in the pavillion.The
> teachers rounded them all up and they left.situation.
>
> My son came over and started to refelct as he always does on the
> He thought it was so sad that he made new friends and they were allhaving
> such fun and then they had to leave. Even when they didn't want to.He asked
> what they would be going back to do. I explained again what schoolis. It's
> hard for him I guess to imagine such a thing. He again mentionedhow sad it
> was that the kids only got to play for such a short while everyday. When I
> explained that this park thing was probably not an every dayoutting for
> them, he felt even worse. He just couldn't get why kids have to dosuch
> things.:( The sad thing is that I've experienced this with other
homeschoolers--there is too much going on at home to have their kids
out playing.
Sheila
crazymoma67 <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], "kayb85 <sheran@p...>"
<sheran@p...> wrote:
church's parking lot. The boys had fun zooming all around, Cal said
he was going 456mph according to his "speed monitor" LOL.. He does
have a speedometer on his bike, but hey, speed monitor works too.
Lydie and I just sat in the van and talked. OH,yeah, I went to the
Dollar store and racked up on lots of cheap gifts I can wrap up for
treats before Christmas OR I can use them for stocking stuffers if
they dont end up opening all of them. Acutally, Phillip hasnt asked
to open any gifts today, but I did give him some new crayons
with "flesh" color in them to finish coloring Shaggy on his poster.
I gotta go whip up some lunch.. Hope everyone else is having a good
day.
Di
<sheran@p...> wrote:
>It was in the low 70's. <BEG>
>Its warm here today too. We packed up our bikes and went over to our
>
church's parking lot. The boys had fun zooming all around, Cal said
he was going 456mph according to his "speed monitor" LOL.. He does
have a speedometer on his bike, but hey, speed monitor works too.
Lydie and I just sat in the van and talked. OH,yeah, I went to the
Dollar store and racked up on lots of cheap gifts I can wrap up for
treats before Christmas OR I can use them for stocking stuffers if
they dont end up opening all of them. Acutally, Phillip hasnt asked
to open any gifts today, but I did give him some new crayons
with "flesh" color in them to finish coloring Shaggy on his poster.
I gotta go whip up some lunch.. Hope everyone else is having a good
day.
Di
crazymoma67 <[email protected]>
<I heard moms counting to 3 when problems arose.>
Thats most likely due to the 1-2-3 Magic "method" that has been
widely suggested by child care professionals, behaviorists and
psychologists. That book was recommended to us by a child
psychologist for managing Cal's ADHD. It didnt work.
I saw all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find
sticks and started "shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you"
and "I just shot you in the back."
Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
typical little boy behavior to me.
Di
Thats most likely due to the 1-2-3 Magic "method" that has been
widely suggested by child care professionals, behaviorists and
psychologists. That book was recommended to us by a child
psychologist for managing Cal's ADHD. It didnt work.
I saw all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find
sticks and started "shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you"
and "I just shot you in the back."
Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
typical little boy behavior to me.
Di
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 1:05:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
crazymoma67@... writes:
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crazymoma67@... writes:
> .My never been schooled 3 1/2 year old is ALWAYS armed.
>
>
> I saw all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find
> sticks and started "shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you"
> and "I just shot you in the back."
>
> Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
> just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
> typical little boy behavior to me.
>
>
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I saw all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find
sticks and started "shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you"
and "I just shot you in the back."
Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
typical little boy behavior to me.<<<<
I have to agree. My son and his friends all did the cops and robbers thing, and the hunters thing. The one thing we always made sure we taught them was that ANY gun is a gun and should be handled with respect. So, while handling a toy gun, treat it as a real gun and use it like you would if it were real.
Kristen
sticks and started "shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you"
and "I just shot you in the back."
Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
typical little boy behavior to me.<<<<
I have to agree. My son and his friends all did the cops and robbers thing, and the hunters thing. The one thing we always made sure we taught them was that ANY gun is a gun and should be handled with respect. So, while handling a toy gun, treat it as a real gun and use it like you would if it were real.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: crazymoma67 <crazymoma67@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 1:02 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: park day and school kids
<I heard moms counting to 3 when problems arose.>
Thats most likely due to the 1-2-3 Magic "method" that has been
widely suggested by child care professionals, behaviorists and
psychologists. That book was recommended to us by a child
psychologist for managing Cal's ADHD. It didnt work.
I saw all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find
sticks and started "shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you"
and "I just shot you in the back."
Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
typical little boy behavior to me.
Di
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 1:24:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
be hunters and protectors, but most do have that instinct. My boys have
always played with weapons, most of them totally made up.. lol. I think it
is a natural form of expression.
Di
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> have to agree. My son and his friends all did the cops and robbers thing,Yeah, I think its an inborn male instinct. Sure, not all males are going to
> and the hunters thing. The one thing we always made sure we taught them
> was that ANY gun is a gun and should be handled with respect. So, while
> handling a toy gun, treat it as a real gun and use it like you would if it
> were real.
>
> Kristen
>
be hunters and protectors, but most do have that instinct. My boys have
always played with weapons, most of them totally made up.. lol. I think it
is a natural form of expression.
Di
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 10:55:35 AM, crazymoma67@... writes:
<< Cal said
he was going 456mph according to his "speed monitor" LOL.. He does
have a speedometer on his bike, but hey, speed monitor works too. >>
Holly used to call rearview mirrors "re-view mirrors."
Makes sense too!
<< Cal said
he was going 456mph according to his "speed monitor" LOL.. He does
have a speedometer on his bike, but hey, speed monitor works too. >>
Holly used to call rearview mirrors "re-view mirrors."
Makes sense too!
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 11:05:39 AM, crazymoma67@... writes:
<< I saw all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find
sticks and started "shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you"
and "I just shot you in the back."
<<Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
typical little boy behavior to me. >>
In my experience it's more prevalent with school kids.
MOST of what seems typical boy behavior disappears without school as the
cause and catalyst.
And it's not so much the action as the attitude that I see different.
Our homeschooling group, when the kids were little, had three families whose
kids hadn't been to school, and as other kids dropped out at various ages,
their common trait was suspicion, fear, and defensive meanness. They assumed
the boys were going to be hateful, and so their actions and reactions the
first several meetings were guarded and sharp. They softened up when they s
aw that our boys weren't pretending to be nice just to lure them in and hurt
them, they actually WERE nicer than boys they were used to.
Sandra
<< I saw all the 4 year olds head right for the playground, find
sticks and started "shooting" each other saying "I'll kill you"
and "I just shot you in the back."
<<Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
typical little boy behavior to me. >>
In my experience it's more prevalent with school kids.
MOST of what seems typical boy behavior disappears without school as the
cause and catalyst.
And it's not so much the action as the attitude that I see different.
Our homeschooling group, when the kids were little, had three families whose
kids hadn't been to school, and as other kids dropped out at various ages,
their common trait was suspicion, fear, and defensive meanness. They assumed
the boys were going to be hateful, and so their actions and reactions the
first several meetings were guarded and sharp. They softened up when they s
aw that our boys weren't pretending to be nice just to lure them in and hurt
them, they actually WERE nicer than boys they were used to.
Sandra
[email protected]
I didn't think the question was about weapons play, but "I'll kill you" and
"I'll shoot you in the back"--which made me think it was just the violent
acts (and dishonorable ones too) instead of the make-beleive and cooperation
which I've found more prevalent with non-school-kids.
"I'll shoot you in the back"--which made me think it was just the violent
acts (and dishonorable ones too) instead of the make-beleive and cooperation
which I've found more prevalent with non-school-kids.
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 1:31:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, grlynbl@...
writes:
post was
Did anyone see the big uproar over the toy that JC Penny offered in thier
catalog? ( let me find the link) Shucks, they must have taken it out of the
catalog. I cant find it. It was a Military Command Center.. Looked like a
blown up house with a soldier and all his command post stuff. I thought it
was pretty cool. My boys are really into the military stuff right now.. GI
Joe and all of that. The toy was on CNN I think or some other News show.. I
really need to do my research on this.. But, basically, lots of folks were
really upset over the toym, saying it bred hate and violence and glorified
war.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Yeah, I think its an inborn male instinct. Sure, not all males are going toMy message got cut off.. this PC is screwed up somehow.. The rest of that
> be hunters and protectors, but most do have that instinct. My boys have
> always played with weapons, most of them totally made up.. lol. I think it
>
> is a natural form of expression.
>
> Di
>
post was
Did anyone see the big uproar over the toy that JC Penny offered in thier
catalog? ( let me find the link) Shucks, they must have taken it out of the
catalog. I cant find it. It was a Military Command Center.. Looked like a
blown up house with a soldier and all his command post stuff. I thought it
was pretty cool. My boys are really into the military stuff right now.. GI
Joe and all of that. The toy was on CNN I think or some other News show.. I
really need to do my research on this.. But, basically, lots of folks were
really upset over the toym, saying it bred hate and violence and glorified
war.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 13:30 12/17/02 -0500, Sandra wrote:
kid's gonna be a marketer one day, I just know it! (g)
marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>In a message dated 12/17/02 10:55:35 AM, crazymoma67@... writes:Liam used to call the neighbor's hand-held phone a "cell-a-phone." That
>
><< Cal said
>he was going 456mph according to his "speed monitor" LOL.. He does
>have a speedometer on his bike, but hey, speed monitor works too. >>
>
>Holly used to call rearview mirrors "re-view mirrors."
>Makes sense too!
kid's gonna be a marketer one day, I just know it! (g)
marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crazymoma67 <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
46mph,not 456.. LOL.. Re-views mirrors works for me too. Cal also
used to call turn signals nick-new's You know, they go nick-new nick-
new nick-new.. And he also called any vehicle with a siren a Woo
Woo.
Diane
>I just read your reply and I saw I had made a typo.. He was going
> In a message dated 12/17/02 10:55:35 AM, crazymoma67@y... writes:
>
> << Cal said
> he was going 456mph according to his "speed monitor" LOL.. He does
> have a speedometer on his bike, but hey, speed monitor works too.
>>
>
> Holly used to call rearview mirrors "re-view mirrors."
> Makes sense too!
46mph,not 456.. LOL.. Re-views mirrors works for me too. Cal also
used to call turn signals nick-new's You know, they go nick-new nick-
new nick-new.. And he also called any vehicle with a siren a Woo
Woo.
Diane
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 12:29:24 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
kinds. We have real live weapons, daggers, bow and arrows and bb gun. They
really love sword fighting with their SCA boffers, but they also act out gun
stuff if they don't have a realistic looking toy gun available.
My 22 mo. old got a plastic piece off of my mop ensemble that is "L" shaped
and is into blasting all of us into oblivion lately and laughing hysterically
when we drop dead!!
The less I made a big deal of it, the less they were obnoxious about it.
Weapons are just another way we learn about the world, another interesting
part of our lives. And my children are very non-violent, peace loving
individuals that get extremely distressed over war or people hurting each
other in any way.
Yet Trevor can tell the difference between oodles of military weapons, how
many rounds per minute most of them shoot, when the Gatlin gun was invented
and myriad factoids I am constantly amazed by.
Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
> just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems likeI have to agree that it's very typical. My boys are into weapons of all
> typical little boy behavior to me. >>
kinds. We have real live weapons, daggers, bow and arrows and bb gun. They
really love sword fighting with their SCA boffers, but they also act out gun
stuff if they don't have a realistic looking toy gun available.
My 22 mo. old got a plastic piece off of my mop ensemble that is "L" shaped
and is into blasting all of us into oblivion lately and laughing hysterically
when we drop dead!!
The less I made a big deal of it, the less they were obnoxious about it.
Weapons are just another way we learn about the world, another interesting
part of our lives. And my children are very non-violent, peace loving
individuals that get extremely distressed over war or people hurting each
other in any way.
Yet Trevor can tell the difference between oodles of military weapons, how
many rounds per minute most of them shoot, when the Gatlin gun was invented
and myriad factoids I am constantly amazed by.
Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 6:37:30 PM !!!First Boot!!!, SandraDodd@...
writes:
homeschoolers we know is that the boys are, well, not very boy-ish to us
(realizing that we've just made a judgement here). The boys we know are "not
allowed" to play with guns, make guns, act with guns. Michael likes to play
James Bond, jump off his bike, make "bombs", etc. These little kids are so
unlike Michael that he has a hard time fitting in. Just so there's no
mistake, Michael doesn't point weapons at anyone, only imaginary "bad guys".
I wonder if we (meaning Michael and I) need to redefine, somehow, our ideas
about "boy" behavior. Maybe thats the problem?
Beth Allen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> They softened up when they sInteresting Sandra. One of Michael's biggest complaints about the
> aw that our boys weren't pretending to be nice just to lure them in and
> hurt
> them, they actually WERE nicer than boys they were used to.
>
> Sandra
>
homeschoolers we know is that the boys are, well, not very boy-ish to us
(realizing that we've just made a judgement here). The boys we know are "not
allowed" to play with guns, make guns, act with guns. Michael likes to play
James Bond, jump off his bike, make "bombs", etc. These little kids are so
unlike Michael that he has a hard time fitting in. Just so there's no
mistake, Michael doesn't point weapons at anyone, only imaginary "bad guys".
I wonder if we (meaning Michael and I) need to redefine, somehow, our ideas
about "boy" behavior. Maybe thats the problem?
Beth Allen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 12:40:33 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
I didn't think the question was about weapons play, but "I'll kill you" and
"I'll shoot you in the back"--which made me think it was just the violent
acts (and dishonorable ones too) instead of the make-beleive and cooperation
which I've found more prevalent with non-school-kids. >>
Well, the attitude is definitely different with the school kids we've seen
that play like this.
My kids aren't needy about weaponry for one, so it's just another part of
life.
They aren't doing it to act out meanness or suffering, they JUST like weapons.
School kids are often acting out because they've been bullied and such.
So yes, there is a big difference between playing with weapons and acting out
aggressions with weapons.
I just wanted to be fair and point out that homeschooled, peace loving
individuals could be really into weaponry and the play that surrounds it.
Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<<
I didn't think the question was about weapons play, but "I'll kill you" and
"I'll shoot you in the back"--which made me think it was just the violent
acts (and dishonorable ones too) instead of the make-beleive and cooperation
which I've found more prevalent with non-school-kids. >>
Well, the attitude is definitely different with the school kids we've seen
that play like this.
My kids aren't needy about weaponry for one, so it's just another part of
life.
They aren't doing it to act out meanness or suffering, they JUST like weapons.
School kids are often acting out because they've been bullied and such.
So yes, there is a big difference between playing with weapons and acting out
aggressions with weapons.
I just wanted to be fair and point out that homeschooled, peace loving
individuals could be really into weaponry and the play that surrounds it.
Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 12:40:33 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< The toy was on CNN I think or some other News show.. I
really need to do my research on this.. But, basically, lots of folks were
really upset over the toym, saying it bred hate and violence and glorified
war. >>
Well, on that issue I have to admit a bit of sensitivity.
If my kids were absolutely wanting one, I wouldn't make a huge deal out of
it. But at the same time, making a toy out of what is a very serious issue
bothers me deeply.
Having weapons, learning about war etc.... has been a wonderful learning
experience for me, due to my child's fascination.
But showing a house ruined by war and making it a TOY? That did bother me.
My kids thought it was stupid when they saw it so it wasn't an issue.
Then there's the other part of me that sees destruction as part of the
creative process. Not in a war type capacity, but kids love wrecking some
things as a creative outlet.
I can see them taking the dollhouse and making it look all wrecked, acting
out a tornado or something. Or maybe even a war if that's what they had been
learning about.
So then what's the difference between the kids turning a toy into a war torn
house and buying one that is already such?
I think the former is more worthy an activity because it came from within the
child....but even as I ponder it from this point of view, it really bothers
me to think about spending money on a toy that is making light of something
so hurtful and terrible.
Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected] writes:
<< The toy was on CNN I think or some other News show.. I
really need to do my research on this.. But, basically, lots of folks were
really upset over the toym, saying it bred hate and violence and glorified
war. >>
Well, on that issue I have to admit a bit of sensitivity.
If my kids were absolutely wanting one, I wouldn't make a huge deal out of
it. But at the same time, making a toy out of what is a very serious issue
bothers me deeply.
Having weapons, learning about war etc.... has been a wonderful learning
experience for me, due to my child's fascination.
But showing a house ruined by war and making it a TOY? That did bother me.
My kids thought it was stupid when they saw it so it wasn't an issue.
Then there's the other part of me that sees destruction as part of the
creative process. Not in a war type capacity, but kids love wrecking some
things as a creative outlet.
I can see them taking the dollhouse and making it look all wrecked, acting
out a tornado or something. Or maybe even a war if that's what they had been
learning about.
So then what's the difference between the kids turning a toy into a war torn
house and buying one that is already such?
I think the former is more worthy an activity because it came from within the
child....but even as I ponder it from this point of view, it really bothers
me to think about spending money on a toy that is making light of something
so hurtful and terrible.
Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 11:52:52 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< I just wanted to be fair and point out that homeschooled, peace loving
individuals could be really into weaponry and the play that surrounds it. >>
Well I'm so used to boys playing with boffers and toy guns that I didn't even
consider that the question had to do with guns. I was thinking behavior
separate from props.
I see gun-avoidance as one of the magical parenting acts (like forbidding TV
or banning commercial t-shirt logos or Disney sheets) which parents hope will
(magically) innoculate their children for their whole lives, somehow.
Sandra
<< I just wanted to be fair and point out that homeschooled, peace loving
individuals could be really into weaponry and the play that surrounds it. >>
Well I'm so used to boys playing with boffers and toy guns that I didn't even
consider that the question had to do with guns. I was thinking behavior
separate from props.
I see gun-avoidance as one of the magical parenting acts (like forbidding TV
or banning commercial t-shirt logos or Disney sheets) which parents hope will
(magically) innoculate their children for their whole lives, somehow.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 11:59:05 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< .but even as I ponder it from this point of view, it really bothers
me to think about spending money on a toy that is making light of something
so hurtful and terrible. >>
Do toys necessarily "make light" though?
When Barbie has a little sister, that's not making light of having a sister,
just because it's a toy. When Ninja Turtles had nunchuku in the U.S. and
England didn't allow miniature plastic nunchuku, neither was "making light"
of anything.
Sandra
<< .but even as I ponder it from this point of view, it really bothers
me to think about spending money on a toy that is making light of something
so hurtful and terrible. >>
Do toys necessarily "make light" though?
When Barbie has a little sister, that's not making light of having a sister,
just because it's a toy. When Ninja Turtles had nunchuku in the U.S. and
England didn't allow miniature plastic nunchuku, neither was "making light"
of anything.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 1:58:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
talked about the toy with others.. ie, my husband, sister, friends. I began
to see it in a bit different light. I showed the link to the toy to a
good male friend of mine,and asked his reaction. He said WOW! COOL! I wish
we had that when I was 10 yrs old I said .. "But the house is all blown up ,
dont you think that is a bit extreme?' He replied. . Oh, nah, we pretended
to blow things up all the time when I was a kid. That got me to thinking
about my own childrens play and how it is more creative in process than
destructive. I didnt show the toy to JP, because I knew he would might
want it and we really didnt have the $50 in our budget to buy it ( not even
for Xmas) He DID ask for 'army men" which he loves to sit up in formations
and then "battle" each other. And he is getting a GI Joe action figure for
Christmas.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> it really bothersWhen I first saw the house. I had a pang of shock..unbelief. Then as I
> me to think about spending money on a toy that is making light of something
>
> so hurtful and terrible.
>
talked about the toy with others.. ie, my husband, sister, friends. I began
to see it in a bit different light. I showed the link to the toy to a
good male friend of mine,and asked his reaction. He said WOW! COOL! I wish
we had that when I was 10 yrs old I said .. "But the house is all blown up ,
dont you think that is a bit extreme?' He replied. . Oh, nah, we pretended
to blow things up all the time when I was a kid. That got me to thinking
about my own childrens play and how it is more creative in process than
destructive. I didnt show the toy to JP, because I knew he would might
want it and we really didnt have the $50 in our budget to buy it ( not even
for Xmas) He DID ask for 'army men" which he loves to sit up in formations
and then "battle" each other. And he is getting a GI Joe action figure for
Christmas.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 1:14:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Earthmomma67@... writes:
well.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Earthmomma67@... writes:
> >Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'mMy 8 and 5 year old boys, never been to PS and they are usually armed as
> >just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
> >typical little boy behavior to me.
> >
> >
> My never been schooled 3 1/2 year old is ALWAYS armed.
> Elissa
>
>
>
>
well.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
On 17 Dec 02, at 13:44, starsuncloud@... wrote:
space rockets and they are also pacifists about war. They are also
very gentle and caring with animals and other people.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> In a message dated 12/17/02 12:29:24 PM Central Standard Time,My boys run araound playing war games with swords and guns and
> [email protected] writes:
>
> << Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
> > just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
> > typical little boy behavior to me. >>
>
> I have to agree that it's very typical. My boys are into weapons of
> all kinds. We have real live weapons, daggers, bow and arrows and bb
> gun. They really love sword fighting with their SCA boffers, but they
> also act out gun stuff if they don't have a realistic looking toy gun
> available. My 22 mo. old got a plastic piece off of my mop ensemble
> that is "L" shaped and is into blasting all of us into oblivion lately
> and laughing hysterically when we drop dead!! The less I made a big
> deal of it, the less they were obnoxious about it. Weapons are just
> another way we learn about the world, another interesting part of our
> lives. And my children are very non-violent, peace loving individuals
> that get extremely distressed over war or people hurting each other in
> any way. Yet Trevor can tell the difference between oodles of military
> weapons, how many rounds per minute most of them shoot, when the
> Gatlin gun was invented and myriad factoids I am constantly amazed by.
>
> Ren
space rockets and they are also pacifists about war. They are also
very gentle and caring with animals and other people.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
Mary Bianco
>From: "crazymoma67 <crazymoma67@...>" <crazymoma67@...><<Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
typical little boy behavior to me.>>
Well the homeschoolers I'm around with our get togethers don't act like
that. Yeah they play things like police and soldier and stuff but not just
running around screaming that I'll kill you. This was both little boys and
girls. No set up was arranged on the play. They just grabbed sticks and
started shooting.
It just seems funny to me because Joseph is very much into the die hard
video game lately with a lot of shooing going on in that. He just leaves it
all behind when he's done playing on the tv.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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Mary Bianco
>From: SandraDodd@...<<I didn't think the question was about weapons play, but "I'll kill you"
and "I'll shoot you in the back"--which made me think it was just the
violent acts (and dishonorable ones too) instead of the make-beleive and
cooperation which I've found more prevalent with non-school-kids.>>
Well that's exactly the attitude that bothered me. It wasn't the gun play as
much as what was involved and more yet, what wasn't involved. There was not
talk of lets play this or you be this. And I was right there, the kids were
just killing each other.
My kids do the gun play too. Except with them it's laser guns or
tranquilizer guns. They make them out of Lego's. We really don't have guns
here.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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Mary Bianco
>From: grlynbl@...<<Did anyone see the big uproar over the toy that JC Penny offered in thier
catalog? ( let me find the link) Shucks, they must have taken it out of the
catalog. I cant find it. It was a Military Command Center.. Looked like a
blown up house with a soldier and all his command post stuff>>
I actually saw this awhile ago. In fact, wasn't someone on this list the one
that sent it? Anyway, I had it in my Sears catalog. I actually thought it
was awful. Didn't like it at all. I don't mind the whole GI Joe stuff. My
son has some of the smaller dolls. Just didn't like the idea of the house
being all blown apart. Just reminded me of the people who would have lived
there. I showed my kids and they didn't like it at all. (before I said
something) They thought it was stupid and we just left it at that. I can
understand why a lot of people felt the same way.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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Rachel Ann
Oh...
My children are always face to face with each other or with me... ala peter
pan and capt hook or whatever...They play a lot of imagination games, as my
daughter refers to them...
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 13:41:48
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: park day and school kids
I didn't think the question was about weapons play, but "I'll kill you" and
"I'll shoot you in the back"--which made me think it was just the violent
acts (and dishonorable ones too) instead of the make-beleive and cooperation
which I've found more prevalent with non-school-kids.
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My children are always face to face with each other or with me... ala peter
pan and capt hook or whatever...They play a lot of imagination games, as my
daughter refers to them...
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 13:41:48
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: park day and school kids
I didn't think the question was about weapons play, but "I'll kill you" and
"I'll shoot you in the back"--which made me think it was just the violent
acts (and dishonorable ones too) instead of the make-beleive and cooperation
which I've found more prevalent with non-school-kids.
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
crazymoma67 <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], "Mary Bianco"
<mummyone24@h...> wrote:
type this, Phillip has the plastic rod that is supposed to adust the
blinds in one hand and a broken plastic sword in the other. He's
just watching himself in the mirror do "moves" Whish, whish,
cchhhooo shhhhhinngggg..Actually,he looks pretty professional. I
think there is a difference in how children play with weapons. It
can be role playing, fantasizing, and acting out of things they have
seen or read. It can be very creative and expressive. And, I have
also seen children play with weapons that seem to be actually intent
on hurting someone. They are more aggressive and they may be acting
out feelings of helplessness or rage. I suppose unless we know the
child and thier family and situations on a personal level, it's hard
to know where thier inspiration and motivation lies in weapon play.
The children on the playground may have had a running game that they
just naturally fell into. I would be uncomfortable too if my
children were in a sitation where all the kids just started
yelling "killing words" because my kids wouldnt know what was going
on. But it could have just been a fun game for these kids because
they were familar with it.
Well Phillip has advanced from practing his moves to fighting the bed
posts. :-)
Diane
<mummyone24@h...> wrote:
> >From: "crazymoma67 <crazymoma67@y...>" <crazymoma67@y...>like
>
> <<Do you think this is more prevalent in ps'ers than in hs'ers? I'm
> just curious. I havent been around alot of hs'ers. This seems like
> typical little boy behavior to me.>>
>
>
> Well the homeschoolers I'm around with our get togethers don't act
> that. Yeah they play things like police and soldier and stuff butnot just
> running around screaming that I'll kill you. This was both littleboys and
> girls. No set up was arranged on the play. They just grabbed sticksand
> started shooting.hard
>
> It just seems funny to me because Joseph is very much into the die
> video game lately with a lot of shooing going on in that. He justleaves it
> all behind when he's done playing on the tv.My boys are pretty much armed to the teeth too.. LOL. Right now as I
>
type this, Phillip has the plastic rod that is supposed to adust the
blinds in one hand and a broken plastic sword in the other. He's
just watching himself in the mirror do "moves" Whish, whish,
cchhhooo shhhhhinngggg..Actually,he looks pretty professional. I
think there is a difference in how children play with weapons. It
can be role playing, fantasizing, and acting out of things they have
seen or read. It can be very creative and expressive. And, I have
also seen children play with weapons that seem to be actually intent
on hurting someone. They are more aggressive and they may be acting
out feelings of helplessness or rage. I suppose unless we know the
child and thier family and situations on a personal level, it's hard
to know where thier inspiration and motivation lies in weapon play.
The children on the playground may have had a running game that they
just naturally fell into. I would be uncomfortable too if my
children were in a sitation where all the kids just started
yelling "killing words" because my kids wouldnt know what was going
on. But it could have just been a fun game for these kids because
they were familar with it.
Well Phillip has advanced from practing his moves to fighting the bed
posts. :-)
Diane
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 3:59:06 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< Just didn't like the idea of the house
being all blown apart. Just reminded me of the people who would have lived
there. >>
Before my husband and I had kids, we went to see "The Terminator." I didn't
like it. I covered my eyes a lot. I was disturbed. Not long after we saw
"Commando" and I really liked it. Wanted to see it again.
Then KEITH was disturbed. For one thing, he likes science fiction and
doesn't much like stories in modern settings. He asked me why I never
wanted to see Terminator again, but enjoyed Commando. I had to think about
it.
Commando had soldiers fighting soldiers. And in defense of a little girl
(honorable touch).
Terminator had a crazed freak shooting housewives and mothers who were
minding their own business.
Sandra
<< Just didn't like the idea of the house
being all blown apart. Just reminded me of the people who would have lived
there. >>
Before my husband and I had kids, we went to see "The Terminator." I didn't
like it. I covered my eyes a lot. I was disturbed. Not long after we saw
"Commando" and I really liked it. Wanted to see it again.
Then KEITH was disturbed. For one thing, he likes science fiction and
doesn't much like stories in modern settings. He asked me why I never
wanted to see Terminator again, but enjoyed Commando. I had to think about
it.
Commando had soldiers fighting soldiers. And in defense of a little girl
(honorable touch).
Terminator had a crazed freak shooting housewives and mothers who were
minding their own business.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/17/02 4:06:29 PM, crazymoma67@... writes:
<< It can be role playing, fantasizing, and acting out of things they have
seen or read. It can be very creative and expressive. And, I have
also seen children play with weapons that seem to be actually intent
on hurting someone. They are more aggressive and they may be acting
out feelings of helplessness or rage. >>
When Kirby was little he was a HUGE Ninja Turtles fan (still is; he said the
other day there's a new series of comics he wants). He acted out all kinds
of Ninja Turtle stuff when he was little, but not on another person. On
Shredder. On the Rat King.
His last karate belt test had a kata that looked like Steven Segal stuff. It
was really impressive. He was shy about it when we said "Wow." He's been in
a couple of real-life situations where others would have bristled up and
tried to be intimidating. He was calm and used words. Didn't even posture.
Didn't even crack his knuckles and shake his hair. <g>
Meanwhile, another friend of theirs is exercising daily and reporting how
many situps and push ups he can do, and getting kids to photograph him posing
to show his muscles, and seeking out situations where he can show off, and
reminding people who already know, again, how strong he is. He's a needier
guy, emotionally and socially.
So there are lots of factors, but after the little-kid fantasy time starts to
fade the kids who are the most secure in their own lives will have the least
reason to have a bunch of big-boy and adult fantasies about doing violence, I
think.
Sandra
<< It can be role playing, fantasizing, and acting out of things they have
seen or read. It can be very creative and expressive. And, I have
also seen children play with weapons that seem to be actually intent
on hurting someone. They are more aggressive and they may be acting
out feelings of helplessness or rage. >>
When Kirby was little he was a HUGE Ninja Turtles fan (still is; he said the
other day there's a new series of comics he wants). He acted out all kinds
of Ninja Turtle stuff when he was little, but not on another person. On
Shredder. On the Rat King.
His last karate belt test had a kata that looked like Steven Segal stuff. It
was really impressive. He was shy about it when we said "Wow." He's been in
a couple of real-life situations where others would have bristled up and
tried to be intimidating. He was calm and used words. Didn't even posture.
Didn't even crack his knuckles and shake his hair. <g>
Meanwhile, another friend of theirs is exercising daily and reporting how
many situps and push ups he can do, and getting kids to photograph him posing
to show his muscles, and seeking out situations where he can show off, and
reminding people who already know, again, how strong he is. He's a needier
guy, emotionally and socially.
So there are lots of factors, but after the little-kid fantasy time starts to
fade the kids who are the most secure in their own lives will have the least
reason to have a bunch of big-boy and adult fantasies about doing violence, I
think.
Sandra
Gerard Westenberg
<the kids who are the most secure in their own lives will have the least
reason to have a bunch of big-boy and adult fantasies about doing violence,>
Yes, I see this with my oldest ( now 22). He was "obsessed" with war, war games, military games, guns and weapons as a little kid but is kind of a pacifist now - he is quiet and non aggressive, though still likes military history..Leonie W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
reason to have a bunch of big-boy and adult fantasies about doing violence,>
Yes, I see this with my oldest ( now 22). He was "obsessed" with war, war games, military games, guns and weapons as a little kid but is kind of a pacifist now - he is quiet and non aggressive, though still likes military history..Leonie W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]