back to "unschoolers to public school"
Have a Nice Day!
I have been reading the archives, and I came across this recent thread.
What a relief to find it!!!
I've been vaciliting back and forth between "unschooling" and "relaxed homeschooling" and I thought it was more because *I* was having a problem. So, I decided I must not be an unschooler after all.
But I think the reason is because my kids repeatedly toss the idea around of going back to ps.
I only want them to be prepared if they go (just like I want them to be prepared if they were to go camping). They never seem definite about it but the possibility that they'll go is always there. My daughter did go back to school this year for a short time and then left because of a school bully and because it wasn't what she remembered from first grade. Now she's talking about going back next year...but every day is different.
My son wanted to go back to high school next year and for the first time, he is interested in tolerating a Saxon math book in order to "be prepared".
I guess thats still unschooling though, since I'm just trying to help them get to where they are going. Am I right?
Kristen
****************************************************************
Today is even more important than tomorrow because "today" is a gift, and "tomorrow" might never come.
Today is where hope lives because today is when we can make things better than yesterday.
The only thing we can be sure of is today and life isn't worth living if it isn't lived in joy for as many moments of today as we can manage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What a relief to find it!!!
I've been vaciliting back and forth between "unschooling" and "relaxed homeschooling" and I thought it was more because *I* was having a problem. So, I decided I must not be an unschooler after all.
But I think the reason is because my kids repeatedly toss the idea around of going back to ps.
I only want them to be prepared if they go (just like I want them to be prepared if they were to go camping). They never seem definite about it but the possibility that they'll go is always there. My daughter did go back to school this year for a short time and then left because of a school bully and because it wasn't what she remembered from first grade. Now she's talking about going back next year...but every day is different.
My son wanted to go back to high school next year and for the first time, he is interested in tolerating a Saxon math book in order to "be prepared".
I guess thats still unschooling though, since I'm just trying to help them get to where they are going. Am I right?
Kristen
****************************************************************
Today is even more important than tomorrow because "today" is a gift, and "tomorrow" might never come.
Today is where hope lives because today is when we can make things better than yesterday.
The only thing we can be sure of is today and life isn't worth living if it isn't lived in joy for as many moments of today as we can manage.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/15/2002 11:52:58 AM Central Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
camping trip that you may or may not take?
Preparing for camping usually happens when you have a specific time and place
picked out. A couple of weeks before hand you might go shopping for a tent,
and do a little research about the location. A few days before hand you
might make your grocery list and the day before you'll probably go to the
store and pick up the food.
What sense would it make to take once-a-week trips to the grocery store for
years preparing for a weekend camping trip?
Going back to school can be *just* like preparing for a camping trip. Set a
date, pick a place, figure out what you need to bring, then go and get it.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> I only want them to be prepared if they go (just like I want them to beBut do you spend 4 hours a day 180 days a year preparing for a 5 night
> prepared if they were to go camping).
camping trip that you may or may not take?
Preparing for camping usually happens when you have a specific time and place
picked out. A couple of weeks before hand you might go shopping for a tent,
and do a little research about the location. A few days before hand you
might make your grocery list and the day before you'll probably go to the
store and pick up the food.
What sense would it make to take once-a-week trips to the grocery store for
years preparing for a weekend camping trip?
Going back to school can be *just* like preparing for a camping trip. Set a
date, pick a place, figure out what you need to bring, then go and get it.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I guess thats the part I'm having trouble "figuring out". How much do we have to cover, how often, and in what format for him to "be prepared".
Same with writing. How much writing is enough?
He might think he is prepared and want to stop working at it, but what if I know differently? I guess I could just give him the information and let him decide how important it is to him.
And there is that nagging worry that he would be labeled an "unschooling failure" simply because most people in this area are "school at homers". I admit it, that concerns me. I don't want my kids to suffer because of others' ignorance.
Kristen
Same with writing. How much writing is enough?
He might think he is prepared and want to stop working at it, but what if I know differently? I guess I could just give him the information and let him decide how important it is to him.
And there is that nagging worry that he would be labeled an "unschooling failure" simply because most people in this area are "school at homers". I admit it, that concerns me. I don't want my kids to suffer because of others' ignorance.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: tuckervill@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] back to "unschoolers to public school"
In a message dated 12/15/2002 11:52:58 AM Central Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
> I only want them to be prepared if they go (just like I want them to be
> prepared if they were to go camping).
But do you spend 4 hours a day 180 days a year preparing for a 5 night
camping trip that you may or may not take?
Preparing for camping usually happens when you have a specific time and place
picked out. A couple of weeks before hand you might go shopping for a tent,
and do a little research about the location. A few days before hand you
might make your grocery list and the day before you'll probably go to the
store and pick up the food.
What sense would it make to take once-a-week trips to the grocery store for
years preparing for a weekend camping trip?
Going back to school can be *just* like preparing for a camping trip. Set a
date, pick a place, figure out what you need to bring, then go and get it.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
By the way...on this same note:
I'm all for unschooling. But if my other kids start talking about school, or start talking about learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done in school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand?
I have a saxon book but it is so repetitive. I'm thinking Key To might be a good one to have around, because that way if someone is interested in learning fractions the way their friends do, they could just pick it up. Key to is pretty self explanatory.
But again, it would be their choice to use it, not use it, or just use a little of it.
Kristen
I'm all for unschooling. But if my other kids start talking about school, or start talking about learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done in school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand?
I have a saxon book but it is so repetitive. I'm thinking Key To might be a good one to have around, because that way if someone is interested in learning fractions the way their friends do, they could just pick it up. Key to is pretty self explanatory.
But again, it would be their choice to use it, not use it, or just use a little of it.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: tuckervill@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] back to "unschoolers to public school"
In a message dated 12/15/2002 11:52:58 AM Central Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
> I only want them to be prepared if they go (just like I want them to be
> prepared if they were to go camping).
But do you spend 4 hours a day 180 days a year preparing for a 5 night
camping trip that you may or may not take?
Preparing for camping usually happens when you have a specific time and place
picked out. A couple of weeks before hand you might go shopping for a tent,
and do a little research about the location. A few days before hand you
might make your grocery list and the day before you'll probably go to the
store and pick up the food.
What sense would it make to take once-a-week trips to the grocery store for
years preparing for a weekend camping trip?
Going back to school can be *just* like preparing for a camping trip. Set a
date, pick a place, figure out what you need to bring, then go and get it.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/15/02 11:33:34 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< I admit it, that concerns me. I don't want my kids to suffer because of
others' ignorance.
don't send them to school.
School will be even MORE ignorant if every unschooling family 'stays up with
school' just in case. There would BE no unschooling if we all try to keep up
with school.
IF your children really want to go to school, they can "cram" at the last
minute, practicing spelling or handwriting or whatever. Or you can help them
be confident enough to go there and say, "No, I was playing D&D while you
were practicing penmanship, but I can catch up."
Sandra
<< I admit it, that concerns me. I don't want my kids to suffer because of
others' ignorance.
>>Then...
don't send them to school.
School will be even MORE ignorant if every unschooling family 'stays up with
school' just in case. There would BE no unschooling if we all try to keep up
with school.
IF your children really want to go to school, they can "cram" at the last
minute, practicing spelling or handwriting or whatever. Or you can help them
be confident enough to go there and say, "No, I was playing D&D while you
were practicing penmanship, but I can catch up."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/15/02 11:35:12 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< But if my other kids start talking about school, or start talking about
learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done in
school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand? >>
The internet.
There are lessons and projects and charts and explanations galore.
Maybe poking around in there yourself would give you more confidence that you
don't need to worry about things you have on hand.
Sandra
<< But if my other kids start talking about school, or start talking about
learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done in
school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand? >>
The internet.
There are lessons and projects and charts and explanations galore.
Maybe poking around in there yourself would give you more confidence that you
don't need to worry about things you have on hand.
Sandra
Have a Nice Day!
Do y'all happen to have a list of links to different internet sites that are favorites for your kids?
I haven't checked the "files" section yet. will do that next. I will also do a google search myself. Google is just SOOOO good at finding sites though, I'm not always sure where to begin.
I will say this much though. I just took my daughter and her ps friend out to lunch. While we were there, we somehow got on the subject of math (I think the friend brought it up). She started talking about math trees (I figured out that we are talking about family fact trees, or whatever they're called). My daughter didn't know what we were talking about so I showed her, and voila, in 5 minutes she knew what a fact family tree was.
Then we talked about "5 to the second power". So, I said.."here, this is what 5 to the second power looks like, and this is what it means". Voila, in 1 minute, she understood.
I told the girls that all these things really are is different ways to say the same thing.
Kristen
I haven't checked the "files" section yet. will do that next. I will also do a google search myself. Google is just SOOOO good at finding sites though, I'm not always sure where to begin.
I will say this much though. I just took my daughter and her ps friend out to lunch. While we were there, we somehow got on the subject of math (I think the friend brought it up). She started talking about math trees (I figured out that we are talking about family fact trees, or whatever they're called). My daughter didn't know what we were talking about so I showed her, and voila, in 5 minutes she knew what a fact family tree was.
Then we talked about "5 to the second power". So, I said.."here, this is what 5 to the second power looks like, and this is what it means". Voila, in 1 minute, she understood.
I told the girls that all these things really are is different ways to say the same thing.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] back to "unschoolers to public school"
In a message dated 12/15/02 11:35:12 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< But if my other kids start talking about school, or start talking about
learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done in
school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand? >>
The internet.
There are lessons and projects and charts and explanations galore.
Maybe poking around in there yourself would give you more confidence that you
don't need to worry about things you have on hand.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Oh...I forgot to share something else.
The girls were playing with their straws, you know, dipping it in their sodas and putting their fingers on the end of the straw. We started theorizing on why the soda does not come out of the straw.
My daughter knew why. My daughter's friend said "I am not learning that in Science yet".
Interesting. But it just goes to demonstrate that a school scope and sequence is not the alpha and omega of learning.
Kristen
The girls were playing with their straws, you know, dipping it in their sodas and putting their fingers on the end of the straw. We started theorizing on why the soda does not come out of the straw.
My daughter knew why. My daughter's friend said "I am not learning that in Science yet".
Interesting. But it just goes to demonstrate that a school scope and sequence is not the alpha and omega of learning.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Have a Nice Day!
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] back to "unschoolers to public school"
Do y'all happen to have a list of links to different internet sites that are favorites for your kids?
I haven't checked the "files" section yet. will do that next. I will also do a google search myself. Google is just SOOOO good at finding sites though, I'm not always sure where to begin.
I will say this much though. I just took my daughter and her ps friend out to lunch. While we were there, we somehow got on the subject of math (I think the friend brought it up). She started talking about math trees (I figured out that we are talking about family fact trees, or whatever they're called). My daughter didn't know what we were talking about so I showed her, and voila, in 5 minutes she knew what a fact family tree was.
Then we talked about "5 to the second power". So, I said.."here, this is what 5 to the second power looks like, and this is what it means". Voila, in 1 minute, she understood.
I told the girls that all these things really are is different ways to say the same thing.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] back to "unschoolers to public school"
In a message dated 12/15/02 11:35:12 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< But if my other kids start talking about school, or start talking about
learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done in
school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand? >>
The internet.
There are lessons and projects and charts and explanations galore.
Maybe poking around in there yourself would give you more confidence that you
don't need to worry about things you have on hand.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Here's a cool site:
http://www.multcolib.org/homework/artshc.html
Not "math" specifically, but a good way to see the connectedness of all
things is to NOT look for math under "math" but quietly (without saying
"Oooh! Math!") find it everywhere. Like in photography, and animation, and
theatre tech. And of course the most mathematical of all art-topics,
perspective!!
http://www.multcolib.org/homework/artshc.html
Not "math" specifically, but a good way to see the connectedness of all
things is to NOT look for math under "math" but quietly (without saying
"Oooh! Math!") find it everywhere. Like in photography, and animation, and
theatre tech. And of course the most mathematical of all art-topics,
perspective!!
Have a Nice Day!
THanks, I'll check it out!
Kristen
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 4:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] back to "unschoolers to public school"
Here's a cool site:
http://www.multcolib.org/homework/artshc.html
Not "math" specifically, but a good way to see the connectedness of all
things is to NOT look for math under "math" but quietly (without saying
"Oooh! Math!") find it everywhere. Like in photography, and animation, and
theatre tech. And of course the most mathematical of all art-topics,
perspective!!
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/15/02 1:35:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
a shipment to arrive or there's always a trip to a school supply store.
If you buy it because you are hoping that one day they may want to pick up
curriculum and study, you may find that it interferes with truly and deeply
understanding how unschooling does work.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand?Why not just order it if they ask for it? Ordering online takes mere days for
>
> <snip>
> But again, it would be their choice to use it, not use it, or just use a
> little of it.
>
>
a shipment to arrive or there's always a trip to a school supply store.
If you buy it because you are hoping that one day they may want to pick up
curriculum and study, you may find that it interferes with truly and deeply
understanding how unschooling does work.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
<< But if my other kids start talking about school, or start talking
about
learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done
in
school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand? >>
For kids up to 8th Grade (I think) there is that series of books, What
Your ___th Grader Needs to Know. They are pretty straightforward. Any
library should have them. Check them out and let your child look them
over if the issue comes up.
(I realize the original poster was talking about high school, so this
answer is really aimed at other people who have the same issue, but with
younger kids.)
In California there are very, very intimidating "learning standards" for
each grade and subject posted on the Department of Education website.
Take them with a grain of salt. Not every student in this state is
close to performing on that level. Standards are catching on in many
states, so you can search the 'net for the standards for your state.
Betsy
about
learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done
in
school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand? >>
For kids up to 8th Grade (I think) there is that series of books, What
Your ___th Grader Needs to Know. They are pretty straightforward. Any
library should have them. Check them out and let your child look them
over if the issue comes up.
(I realize the original poster was talking about high school, so this
answer is really aimed at other people who have the same issue, but with
younger kids.)
In California there are very, very intimidating "learning standards" for
each grade and subject posted on the Department of Education website.
Take them with a grain of salt. Not every student in this state is
close to performing on that level. Standards are catching on in many
states, so you can search the 'net for the standards for your state.
Betsy
Have a Nice Day!
I thought about that. I guess though that when I order things, I like them to arrive YESTERDAY!!!
I just like having lots of stuff around...but I do have to be careful not to become a slave to it just because its sitting there.
Kristen
I just like having lots of stuff around...but I do have to be careful not to become a slave to it just because its sitting there.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Earthmomma67@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] back to "unschoolers to public school"
In a message dated 12/15/02 1:35:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
> do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand?
>
> <snip>
> But again, it would be their choice to use it, not use it, or just use a
> little of it.
>
>
Why not just order it if they ask for it? Ordering online takes mere days for
a shipment to arrive or there's always a trip to a school supply store.
If you buy it because you are hoping that one day they may want to pick up
curriculum and study, you may find that it interferes with truly and deeply
understanding how unschooling does work.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85 <[email protected]>
Have they read the Teenage Liberation Handbook?
I think that you should let go of worrying how well they'll do in
school, even if they announce that they are 100% sure, beyond a
doubt, that they are going back to school right after Christmas
vacation. Let them go and get out of it what they want to get out of
it. There might be things there that would fascinate them, and if
they know that it's ok if they fail every subject or never do any
homework, then they will enjoy the things that they are fascinated
with and ignore the things they don't. If they do go, make sure they
know that good grades are like carrots fed to lab animals to make
them perform. If they don't care about the carrots, they're free to
run around and explore the maze at their leisure.
Sheila
--- In [email protected], Have a Nice Day!
<litlrooh@c...> wrote:
having a problem. So, I decided I must not be an unschooler after
all.
about it but the possibility that they'll go is always there. My
daughter did go back to school this year for a short time and then
left because of a school bully and because it wasn't what she
remembered from first grade. Now she's talking about going back next
year...but every day is different.
to "be prepared".
can manage.
I think that you should let go of worrying how well they'll do in
school, even if they announce that they are 100% sure, beyond a
doubt, that they are going back to school right after Christmas
vacation. Let them go and get out of it what they want to get out of
it. There might be things there that would fascinate them, and if
they know that it's ok if they fail every subject or never do any
homework, then they will enjoy the things that they are fascinated
with and ignore the things they don't. If they do go, make sure they
know that good grades are like carrots fed to lab animals to make
them perform. If they don't care about the carrots, they're free to
run around and explore the maze at their leisure.
Sheila
--- In [email protected], Have a Nice Day!
<litlrooh@c...> wrote:
> I have been reading the archives, and I came across this recentthread.
>and "relaxed homeschooling" and I thought it was more because *I* was
> What a relief to find it!!!
>
> I've been vaciliting back and forth between "unschooling"
having a problem. So, I decided I must not be an unschooler after
all.
>around of going back to ps.
> But I think the reason is because my kids repeatedly toss the idea
>to be prepared if they were to go camping). They never seem definite
> I only want them to be prepared if they go (just like I want them
about it but the possibility that they'll go is always there. My
daughter did go back to school this year for a short time and then
left because of a school bully and because it wasn't what she
remembered from first grade. Now she's talking about going back next
year...but every day is different.
>time, he is interested in tolerating a Saxon math book in order
> My son wanted to go back to high school next year and for the first
to "be prepared".
>help them get to where they are going. Am I right?
> I guess thats still unschooling though, since I'm just trying to
>gift, and "tomorrow" might never come.
> Kristen
>
>
>
>
>
> ****************************************************************
>
> Today is even more important than tomorrow because "today" is a
>better than yesterday.
> Today is where hope lives because today is when we can make things
>living if it isn't lived in joy for as many moments of today as we
> The only thing we can be sure of is today and life isn't worth
can manage.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
THat is an interesting perspective, and was the one I used when my daughter went back this year for a short time. I told her she could come home at any time, and she knew it when she was on the playground and was being bullied. In fact, I think she announced she was going home LOL.
But I worry about how it will impact homeschooling or unschooling in general. The media, the schools, the naysayers all like to hunt for that *one* case that they can refer to as the example of failure. They like to use it as an excuse for increased harassment, increased legislation, increased negativity.
I don't want to give them an excuse. I live here in PA. I have been very active in getting new legislation passed, etc. I have talked until I'm blue with others about overcompliance, etc. I have challenged my district on more than one occasion, and I'm in a GOOD district!! How will it affect others to see my kids "behind" even if it doesn't bother US?
How will it impact homeschooling in PA?
Kristen
But I worry about how it will impact homeschooling or unschooling in general. The media, the schools, the naysayers all like to hunt for that *one* case that they can refer to as the example of failure. They like to use it as an excuse for increased harassment, increased legislation, increased negativity.
I don't want to give them an excuse. I live here in PA. I have been very active in getting new legislation passed, etc. I have talked until I'm blue with others about overcompliance, etc. I have challenged my district on more than one occasion, and I'm in a GOOD district!! How will it affect others to see my kids "behind" even if it doesn't bother US?
How will it impact homeschooling in PA?
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: kayb85 <sheran@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:57 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: back to "unschoolers to public school"
Have they read the Teenage Liberation Handbook?
I think that you should let go of worrying how well they'll do in
school, even if they announce that they are 100% sure, beyond a
doubt, that they are going back to school right after Christmas
vacation. Let them go and get out of it what they want to get out of
it. There might be things there that would fascinate them, and if
they know that it's ok if they fail every subject or never do any
homework, then they will enjoy the things that they are fascinated
with and ignore the things they don't. If they do go, make sure they
know that good grades are like carrots fed to lab animals to make
them perform. If they don't care about the carrots, they're free to
run around and explore the maze at their leisure.
Sheila
--- In [email protected], Have a Nice Day!
<litlrooh@c...> wrote:
> I have been reading the archives, and I came across this recent
thread.
>
> What a relief to find it!!!
>
> I've been vaciliting back and forth between "unschooling"
and "relaxed homeschooling" and I thought it was more because *I* was
having a problem. So, I decided I must not be an unschooler after
all.
>
> But I think the reason is because my kids repeatedly toss the idea
around of going back to ps.
>
> I only want them to be prepared if they go (just like I want them
to be prepared if they were to go camping). They never seem definite
about it but the possibility that they'll go is always there. My
daughter did go back to school this year for a short time and then
left because of a school bully and because it wasn't what she
remembered from first grade. Now she's talking about going back next
year...but every day is different.
>
> My son wanted to go back to high school next year and for the first
time, he is interested in tolerating a Saxon math book in order
to "be prepared".
>
> I guess thats still unschooling though, since I'm just trying to
help them get to where they are going. Am I right?
>
> Kristen
>
>
>
>
>
> ****************************************************************
>
> Today is even more important than tomorrow because "today" is a
gift, and "tomorrow" might never come.
>
> Today is where hope lives because today is when we can make things
better than yesterday.
>
> The only thing we can be sure of is today and life isn't worth
living if it isn't lived in joy for as many moments of today as we
can manage.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85 <[email protected]>
You don't need to give them an excuse. They'll make one up if they
don't have one. My representative did.
If your kids had gone back to the public schools as homeschool poster
children, ended up at the top of their classes, teachers insisted
that they skipped grades because they were so far ahead, and teachers
wrote articles in papers saying that all people should homeschool
because your children are so smart, HB2560 still wouldn't have
passed.
Unschooling works. If you believe that it works, if it is a
principle that you believe in and, and if it's the kind of freedom
you want your children to have, then I think you should give it to
them.
Sheila
--- In [email protected], Have a Nice Day!
<litlrooh@c...> wrote:
come home at any time, and she knew it when she was on the playground
and was being bullied. In fact, I think she announced she was going
home LOL.
for that *one* case that they can refer to as the example of
failure. They like to use it as an excuse for increased harassment,
increased legislation, increased negativity.
talked until I'm blue with others about overcompliance, etc. I have
challenged my district on more than one occasion, and I'm in a GOOD
district!! How will it affect others to see my kids "behind" even if
it doesn't bother US?
list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@h...).
don't have one. My representative did.
If your kids had gone back to the public schools as homeschool poster
children, ended up at the top of their classes, teachers insisted
that they skipped grades because they were so far ahead, and teachers
wrote articles in papers saying that all people should homeschool
because your children are so smart, HB2560 still wouldn't have
passed.
Unschooling works. If you believe that it works, if it is a
principle that you believe in and, and if it's the kind of freedom
you want your children to have, then I think you should give it to
them.
Sheila
--- In [email protected], Have a Nice Day!
<litlrooh@c...> wrote:
> THat is an interesting perspective, and was the one I used when mydaughter went back this year for a short time. I told her she could
come home at any time, and she knew it when she was on the playground
and was being bullied. In fact, I think she announced she was going
home LOL.
>in general. The media, the schools, the naysayers all like to hunt
> But I worry about how it will impact homeschooling or unschooling
for that *one* case that they can refer to as the example of
failure. They like to use it as an excuse for increased harassment,
increased legislation, increased negativity.
>been very active in getting new legislation passed, etc. I have
> I don't want to give them an excuse. I live here in PA. I have
talked until I'm blue with others about overcompliance, etc. I have
challenged my district on more than one occasion, and I'm in a GOOD
district!! How will it affect others to see my kids "behind" even if
it doesn't bother US?
>school"
> How will it impact homeschooling in PA?
>
> Kristen
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kayb85 <sheran@p...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 10:57 PM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: back to "unschoolers to public
>out of
>
> Have they read the Teenage Liberation Handbook?
>
> I think that you should let go of worrying how well they'll do in
> school, even if they announce that they are 100% sure, beyond a
> doubt, that they are going back to school right after Christmas
> vacation. Let them go and get out of it what they want to get
> it. There might be things there that would fascinate them, andif
> they know that it's ok if they fail every subject or never do anyfascinated
> homework, then they will enjoy the things that they are
> with and ignore the things they don't. If they do go, make surethey
> know that good grades are like carrots fed to lab animals to maketo
> them perform. If they don't care about the carrots, they're free
> run around and explore the maze at their leisure.was
>
> Sheila
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Have a Nice Day!
> <litlrooh@c...> wrote:
> > I have been reading the archives, and I came across this recent
> thread.
> >
> > What a relief to find it!!!
> >
> > I've been vaciliting back and forth between "unschooling"
> and "relaxed homeschooling" and I thought it was more because *I*
> having a problem. So, I decided I must not be an unschoolerafter
> all.idea
> >
> > But I think the reason is because my kids repeatedly toss the
> around of going back to ps.them
> >
> > I only want them to be prepared if they go (just like I want
> to be prepared if they were to go camping). They never seemdefinite
> about it but the possibility that they'll go is always there. Mythen
> daughter did go back to school this year for a short time and
> left because of a school bully and because it wasn't what shenext
> remembered from first grade. Now she's talking about going back
> year...but every day is different.first
> >
> > My son wanted to go back to high school next year and for the
> time, he is interested in tolerating a Saxon math book in orderto
> to "be prepared".
> >
> > I guess thats still unschooling though, since I'm just trying
> help them get to where they are going. Am I right?things
> >
> > Kristen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ****************************************************************
> >
> > Today is even more important than tomorrow because "today" is a
> gift, and "tomorrow" might never come.
> >
> > Today is where hope lives because today is when we can make
> better than yesterday.we
> >
> > The only thing we can be sure of is today and life isn't worth
> living if it isn't lived in joy for as many moments of today as
> can manage.~~~~
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line!
>please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@e...), or the
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@h...).
>address an email to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
> [email protected]Service.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/15/02 9:06:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
also, there's a great one called equate wich is algebraic sentances played
out like scrabble. Then played them!
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> I thought about that. I guess though that when I order things, I like themWhat if you instead bought games, like FUNBooks carries? Gmaes will teach
> to arrive YESTERDAY!!!
>
> I just like having lots of stuff around...but I do have to be careful not
> to become a slave to it just because its sitting there.
>
> Kristen
>
also, there's a great one called equate wich is algebraic sentances played
out like scrabble. Then played them!
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
susan marie
My daughter decided she wanted to learn Algebra. She's 12, btw. So we
talked about it, why she wanted to this, etc. I explained to her that
she could do everything from using the computer to waiting until she was
older and could take a class at the community college. She wants to it
now - she wants to go to college, and her two interests are science and
acting, so she talks to other kids, esp. those in gifted ed. programs
who are her age, and kids a grade or two ahead of her age, and pays
attention to what these other kids are doing in public school. She
doesn't worry at all about science or writing, because she can see that
she is doing much more than they are. But she wanted Algebra. Finally,
what she settled on was a straight forward math textbook. These are
quite difficult to find, as the new type of text has lots of
"enrichment" stuff in them. I went to ebay and found an old (1991)
Dolciani book and ordered both the book and the teacher's text. She
likes it fine, and is working through the book on her own. She is aware
of the fact that it is up to her, and she can do it or not. This is the
only traditional style textbook that she uses, and it is entirely her
choice, and she can choose to put it away anytime she wants. btw, she
has decided that she has no interest whatsoever in going to a
traditional high school - feels it would be an enormous waste of her
time.
She also wants to do more with history, but doesn't really like it, so I
suggested that she try reading biographies, since she seems to really
enjoy this, loves to watch biography shows on tv, and she likes that
idea a lot, so she has been checking biographies out of the library. She
decides what she wants to learn, and we often discuss how she can get to
where she wants. Other times, she simply decides herself, and sometimes
asks for my help and sometimes not. Sometimes she tries something, an
approach or a topic, and doesn't like it, and so stops and tries
something else. For example, she wants to learn French, has tried a few
different approaches, but hasn't found one she likes yet.
Personally, I had always liked a good math book, but always hated that I
couldn't skip ahead if I "got it" - she can do as much or as little as
she wants. We've also talked about math, that the idea is "to get it",
to be able to understand it and use it, not to simply do a page of
problems and pass the test, and have little or no understanding of what
the material was about. Math is a tool, a language, very useful stuff if
you actually understand it and use it. A math book can be a good tool,
but it is not the beginning and end of mathematics, and much can be
learned without one. If you want to pursue an interest in science or
math, you will sooner or later need some formal mathematics. But how and
when varies as much as the person and their needs and interests. I was
in sports science for awhile, loved it, and had lots of math. Hubby was
a journalist, and the extent of his formal math was high school math,
which he hated, and what he knows and needs now is to balance the
checkbook and manage personal finances, and what he needs for his
interest in sports.
I think you can "monitor" what sort of things are "covered" (according
to the ps) in ps high school, and then choose to do it any way that you
like - and I don't mean that you even have to do their curriculum, but
only what you need to do to meet whatever requirements your state has.
We also look at things from the long perspective - 12 yo dd wants to go
to college, but doesn't know if she wants to go when she's 16 or wait
until she's older - so she has lots of time to get there, and plenty of
time to do what she wants and what she needs, and she can choose how to
do it and how to get there. And of course, the time and freedom to
change her mind as often as she likes.
peace,
susan
talked about it, why she wanted to this, etc. I explained to her that
she could do everything from using the computer to waiting until she was
older and could take a class at the community college. She wants to it
now - she wants to go to college, and her two interests are science and
acting, so she talks to other kids, esp. those in gifted ed. programs
who are her age, and kids a grade or two ahead of her age, and pays
attention to what these other kids are doing in public school. She
doesn't worry at all about science or writing, because she can see that
she is doing much more than they are. But she wanted Algebra. Finally,
what she settled on was a straight forward math textbook. These are
quite difficult to find, as the new type of text has lots of
"enrichment" stuff in them. I went to ebay and found an old (1991)
Dolciani book and ordered both the book and the teacher's text. She
likes it fine, and is working through the book on her own. She is aware
of the fact that it is up to her, and she can do it or not. This is the
only traditional style textbook that she uses, and it is entirely her
choice, and she can choose to put it away anytime she wants. btw, she
has decided that she has no interest whatsoever in going to a
traditional high school - feels it would be an enormous waste of her
time.
She also wants to do more with history, but doesn't really like it, so I
suggested that she try reading biographies, since she seems to really
enjoy this, loves to watch biography shows on tv, and she likes that
idea a lot, so she has been checking biographies out of the library. She
decides what she wants to learn, and we often discuss how she can get to
where she wants. Other times, she simply decides herself, and sometimes
asks for my help and sometimes not. Sometimes she tries something, an
approach or a topic, and doesn't like it, and so stops and tries
something else. For example, she wants to learn French, has tried a few
different approaches, but hasn't found one she likes yet.
Personally, I had always liked a good math book, but always hated that I
couldn't skip ahead if I "got it" - she can do as much or as little as
she wants. We've also talked about math, that the idea is "to get it",
to be able to understand it and use it, not to simply do a page of
problems and pass the test, and have little or no understanding of what
the material was about. Math is a tool, a language, very useful stuff if
you actually understand it and use it. A math book can be a good tool,
but it is not the beginning and end of mathematics, and much can be
learned without one. If you want to pursue an interest in science or
math, you will sooner or later need some formal mathematics. But how and
when varies as much as the person and their needs and interests. I was
in sports science for awhile, loved it, and had lots of math. Hubby was
a journalist, and the extent of his formal math was high school math,
which he hated, and what he knows and needs now is to balance the
checkbook and manage personal finances, and what he needs for his
interest in sports.
I think you can "monitor" what sort of things are "covered" (according
to the ps) in ps high school, and then choose to do it any way that you
like - and I don't mean that you even have to do their curriculum, but
only what you need to do to meet whatever requirements your state has.
We also look at things from the long perspective - 12 yo dd wants to go
to college, but doesn't know if she wants to go when she's 16 or wait
until she's older - so she has lots of time to get there, and plenty of
time to do what she wants and what she needs, and she can choose how to
do it and how to get there. And of course, the time and freedom to
change her mind as often as she likes.
peace,
susan
On Sunday, December 15, 2002, at 08:03 PM, Betsy wrote:
> << But if my other kids start talking about school, or start talking
> about
> learning something, (math for example) in a formal way, the way its done
> in
> school, do you have suggestions for something I could keep on hand? >>
>
> For kids up to 8th Grade (I think) there is that series of books, What
> Your ___th Grader Needs to Know. They are pretty straightforward. Any
> library should have them. Check them out and let your child look them
> over if the issue comes up.
>
> (I realize the original poster was talking about high school, so this
> answer is really aimed at other people who have the same issue, but with
> younger kids.)
>
> In California there are very, very intimidating "learning standards" for
> each grade and subject posted on the Department of Education website.
> Take them with a grain of salt. Not every student in this state is
> close to performing on that level. Standards are catching on in many
> states, so you can search the 'net for the standards for your state.
>
> Betsy
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
> an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
peace,
Susan
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead
"All we are saying is give peace a chance."
- John Lennon
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/02 10:04:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
scribblers2@... writes:
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
scribblers2@... writes:
> I think you can "monitor" what sort of things are "covered" (accordingBut is this unschooling?
> to the ps) in ps high school, and then choose to do it any way that you
> like - and I don't mean that you even have to do their curriculum, but
> only what you need to do to meet whatever requirements your state has.
>
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85 <[email protected]>
Well, if you live in a state that requires a portfolio including
samples of the child's work in the required subjects, you don't have
much of a choice, do you? Unless you want to homeschool underground
and take the chance of getting caught, fined, thrown in jail, and
having your kids taken from you.
I find that if we save brochures and if I keep my eyes open for some
things I can photocopy, I can usually find enough to fill a portfolio
with a few samples from each subject.
This year, I have PA history covered because we took the boys to the
PA railroad museum and covered some PA history at Hershey chocolate
world. I have U.S. history covered because we went to Boston and did
the freedom trail. If I think hard enough I'll remember some other
thigns that qualify as history, probably. I'll probably make a
collage of brochures. For science I have a few experiments we did,
she did a "science projects to do with your cat" activity packet I'll
probably be able to use, and a trip to a science museum. I have
geography covered because of Top Secret Adventures I can photocopy, I
have math covered because of mathmania I can photocopy. I have
writing covered because I secretly photocopied some penpal letters.
Fire Safety is covered because we went to a fire safety day at a
Christian camp. The fire chief there sent out impressive letters
explaining everything that was covered (for the benefit of
portfolios) . For art, I guess I'll take pictures of some projects.
For civics we have our skateboard and scooter project (we convinced
our council to not pass a skatebaord ordinance). I will definitely
put in some trips to the capitol trying to convince legislators to
change our homeschool law. ;) I don't know if I have anything on
paper yet for health or spelling.
Last year I had to have dd sit down and fill out a stupid worksheet
about fire safety that said "Stop, drop, roll", so I had something to
put in for fire safety.
Sheila
samples of the child's work in the required subjects, you don't have
much of a choice, do you? Unless you want to homeschool underground
and take the chance of getting caught, fined, thrown in jail, and
having your kids taken from you.
I find that if we save brochures and if I keep my eyes open for some
things I can photocopy, I can usually find enough to fill a portfolio
with a few samples from each subject.
This year, I have PA history covered because we took the boys to the
PA railroad museum and covered some PA history at Hershey chocolate
world. I have U.S. history covered because we went to Boston and did
the freedom trail. If I think hard enough I'll remember some other
thigns that qualify as history, probably. I'll probably make a
collage of brochures. For science I have a few experiments we did,
she did a "science projects to do with your cat" activity packet I'll
probably be able to use, and a trip to a science museum. I have
geography covered because of Top Secret Adventures I can photocopy, I
have math covered because of mathmania I can photocopy. I have
writing covered because I secretly photocopied some penpal letters.
Fire Safety is covered because we went to a fire safety day at a
Christian camp. The fire chief there sent out impressive letters
explaining everything that was covered (for the benefit of
portfolios) . For art, I guess I'll take pictures of some projects.
For civics we have our skateboard and scooter project (we convinced
our council to not pass a skatebaord ordinance). I will definitely
put in some trips to the capitol trying to convince legislators to
change our homeschool law. ;) I don't know if I have anything on
paper yet for health or spelling.
Last year I had to have dd sit down and fill out a stupid worksheet
about fire safety that said "Stop, drop, roll", so I had something to
put in for fire safety.
Sheila
--- In [email protected], Earthmomma67@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/16/02 10:04:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> scribblers2@e... writes:
>
> > I think you can "monitor" what sort of things are "covered"
(according
> > to the ps) in ps high school, and then choose to do it any way
that you
> > like - and I don't mean that you even have to do their
curriculum, but
> > only what you need to do to meet whatever requirements your state
has.
> >
>
> But is this unschooling?
> Elissa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Well, if you live in a state that requires a portfolio including
samples of the child's work in the required subjects, you don't have
much of a choice, do you? Unless you want to homeschool underground
and take the chance of getting caught, fined, thrown in jail, and
having your kids taken from you.<<<<<
And ultimately, because of the power that the Compulsary Attendance Law gives the superintendent, coupled with the wording of Act 169 that says a superintendent only needs a "reasonable belief" to question your program, the superintendent *could* challenge you even if you are NOT underground.
If he wins in a due process hearing, your kids would *still* be forced back into school, and parents can still be fined for truancy, a whopping $300/day of being "truant".
No matter how much we trust unschooling, we have to think like those that don't in order to protect ourselves and our children.
Kristen
samples of the child's work in the required subjects, you don't have
much of a choice, do you? Unless you want to homeschool underground
and take the chance of getting caught, fined, thrown in jail, and
having your kids taken from you.<<<<<
And ultimately, because of the power that the Compulsary Attendance Law gives the superintendent, coupled with the wording of Act 169 that says a superintendent only needs a "reasonable belief" to question your program, the superintendent *could* challenge you even if you are NOT underground.
If he wins in a due process hearing, your kids would *still* be forced back into school, and parents can still be fined for truancy, a whopping $300/day of being "truant".
No matter how much we trust unschooling, we have to think like those that don't in order to protect ourselves and our children.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: kayb85 <sheran@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:30 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: back to "unschoolers to public school"
Well, if you live in a state that requires a portfolio including
samples of the child's work in the required subjects, you don't have
much of a choice, do you? Unless you want to homeschool underground
and take the chance of getting caught, fined, thrown in jail, and
having your kids taken from you.
I find that if we save brochures and if I keep my eyes open for some
things I can photocopy, I can usually find enough to fill a portfolio
with a few samples from each subject.
This year, I have PA history covered because we took the boys to the
PA railroad museum and covered some PA history at Hershey chocolate
world. I have U.S. history covered because we went to Boston and did
the freedom trail. If I think hard enough I'll remember some other
thigns that qualify as history, probably. I'll probably make a
collage of brochures. For science I have a few experiments we did,
she did a "science projects to do with your cat" activity packet I'll
probably be able to use, and a trip to a science museum. I have
geography covered because of Top Secret Adventures I can photocopy, I
have math covered because of mathmania I can photocopy. I have
writing covered because I secretly photocopied some penpal letters.
Fire Safety is covered because we went to a fire safety day at a
Christian camp. The fire chief there sent out impressive letters
explaining everything that was covered (for the benefit of
portfolios) . For art, I guess I'll take pictures of some projects.
For civics we have our skateboard and scooter project (we convinced
our council to not pass a skatebaord ordinance). I will definitely
put in some trips to the capitol trying to convince legislators to
change our homeschool law. ;) I don't know if I have anything on
paper yet for health or spelling.
Last year I had to have dd sit down and fill out a stupid worksheet
about fire safety that said "Stop, drop, roll", so I had something to
put in for fire safety.
Sheila
--- In [email protected], Earthmomma67@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/16/02 10:04:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> scribblers2@e... writes:
>
> > I think you can "monitor" what sort of things are "covered"
(according
> > to the ps) in ps high school, and then choose to do it any way
that you
> > like - and I don't mean that you even have to do their
curriculum, but
> > only what you need to do to meet whatever requirements your state
has.
> >
>
> But is this unschooling?
> Elissa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
OOOOO that sounds GREAT!
THanks for the idea!
Kristen
THanks for the idea!
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Earthmomma67@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] back to "unschoolers to public school"
In a message dated 12/15/02 9:06:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
> I thought about that. I guess though that when I order things, I like them
> to arrive YESTERDAY!!!
>
> I just like having lots of stuff around...but I do have to be careful not
> to become a slave to it just because its sitting there.
>
> Kristen
>
What if you instead bought games, like FUNBooks carries? Gmaes will teach
also, there's a great one called equate wich is algebraic sentances played
out like scrabble. Then played them!
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/2002 11:07:34 AM Central Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
started homeschooling, I would move. Seriously. I don't know why more
people don't.
But I move at the drop of a hat, anyway.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> No matter how much we trust unschooling, we have to think like those thatYou couldn't pay me enough to live in PA. If I had lived there when I
> don't in order to protect ourselves and our children.
>
started homeschooling, I would move. Seriously. I don't know why more
people don't.
But I move at the drop of a hat, anyway.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Oh believe me, I have thought very seriously of moving or at least creating the ILLUSION that I've moved.
But my husband won't move. Its just not practical for him. I can get a job anywhere, but he can't. And he has absolutely no desire to move. We are both lifers here :o).
He doesn't feel as strongly about homeschooling as I do, and although I've dropped informative hints here and there about unschooling, and he agrees with things I've said, he would have a panic attack if I told him the scope of unschooling we've used or actually called it "unschooling".
Other than this silly law, we have it good here. So, for now the total benefits outweigh the disgust I feel LOL.
Sigh,
Kristen
But my husband won't move. Its just not practical for him. I can get a job anywhere, but he can't. And he has absolutely no desire to move. We are both lifers here :o).
He doesn't feel as strongly about homeschooling as I do, and although I've dropped informative hints here and there about unschooling, and he agrees with things I've said, he would have a panic attack if I told him the scope of unschooling we've used or actually called it "unschooling".
Other than this silly law, we have it good here. So, for now the total benefits outweigh the disgust I feel LOL.
Sigh,
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: tuckervill@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: back to "unschoolers to public school"
In a message dated 12/16/2002 11:07:34 AM Central Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
> No matter how much we trust unschooling, we have to think like those that
> don't in order to protect ourselves and our children.
>
You couldn't pay me enough to live in PA. If I had lived there when I
started homeschooling, I would move. Seriously. I don't know why more
people don't.
But I move at the drop of a hat, anyway.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85 <[email protected]>
I don't think you have to think like them. I refuse to let the law
dictate how I parent my children. (And I see unschooling as an
extension of parenting, not as something seperate). What you do have
to do is understand how they think. Not too hard for anyone who grew
up in public school. Easier yet for me because my parents are both
teachers. The key is to make what you do look like what they do. And
don't think about it every day, or it will consume you. Just push it
to the back of your mind and bring up the file on how to speak
educationese and build an impressive portfolio in the spring.
Vaguely be aware of it throughout the year, maybe with a pile
somewhere where you throw stuff that looks like what they do in
school, but don't get into the pile or worry about what's there until
spring.
They're too narrow-minded to be able to think outside of their
institutional boxes and even begin to understand unschooling, so we
have to spoon feed them. Look what we did for geography! Look what
we learned for science! Doesn't that look impressive? Doesn't some
of that look a lot like what your students did in your institution?
There, we must be almost as good as you.
And hopefully they'll leave you alone and you won't have to think
about it for another year.
Sheila
Act 169 that says a superintendent only needs a "reasonable belief"
to question your program, the superintendent *could* challenge you
even if you are NOT underground.
a whopping $300/day of being "truant".
list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@h...).
dictate how I parent my children. (And I see unschooling as an
extension of parenting, not as something seperate). What you do have
to do is understand how they think. Not too hard for anyone who grew
up in public school. Easier yet for me because my parents are both
teachers. The key is to make what you do look like what they do. And
don't think about it every day, or it will consume you. Just push it
to the back of your mind and bring up the file on how to speak
educationese and build an impressive portfolio in the spring.
Vaguely be aware of it throughout the year, maybe with a pile
somewhere where you throw stuff that looks like what they do in
school, but don't get into the pile or worry about what's there until
spring.
They're too narrow-minded to be able to think outside of their
institutional boxes and even begin to understand unschooling, so we
have to spoon feed them. Look what we did for geography! Look what
we learned for science! Doesn't that look impressive? Doesn't some
of that look a lot like what your students did in your institution?
There, we must be almost as good as you.
And hopefully they'll leave you alone and you won't have to think
about it for another year.
Sheila
> And ultimately, because of the power that the CompulsaryAttendance Law gives the superintendent, coupled with the wording of
Act 169 that says a superintendent only needs a "reasonable belief"
to question your program, the superintendent *could* challenge you
even if you are NOT underground.
>forced back into school, and parents can still be fined for truancy,
> If he wins in a due process hearing, your kids would *still* be
a whopping $300/day of being "truant".
>those that don't in order to protect ourselves and our children.
> No matter how much we trust unschooling, we have to think like
>school"
> Kristen
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kayb85 <sheran@p...>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 11:30 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: back to "unschoolers to public
>have
>
> Well, if you live in a state that requires a portfolio including
> samples of the child's work in the required subjects, you don't
> much of a choice, do you? Unless you want to homeschoolunderground
> and take the chance of getting caught, fined, thrown in jail, andsome
> having your kids taken from you.
>
> I find that if we save brochures and if I keep my eyes open for
> things I can photocopy, I can usually find enough to fill aportfolio
> with a few samples from each subject.the
>
> This year, I have PA history covered because we took the boys to
> PA railroad museum and covered some PA history at Hersheychocolate
> world. I have U.S. history covered because we went to Boston anddid
> the freedom trail. If I think hard enough I'll remember someother
> thigns that qualify as history, probably. I'll probably make adid,
> collage of brochures. For science I have a few experiments we
> she did a "science projects to do with your cat" activity packetI'll
> probably be able to use, and a trip to a science museum. I havephotocopy, I
> geography covered because of Top Secret Adventures I can
> have math covered because of mathmania I can photocopy. I haveletters.
> writing covered because I secretly photocopied some penpal
> Fire Safety is covered because we went to a fire safety day at aprojects.
> Christian camp. The fire chief there sent out impressive letters
> explaining everything that was covered (for the benefit of
> portfolios) . For art, I guess I'll take pictures of some
> For civics we have our skateboard and scooter project (weconvinced
> our council to not pass a skatebaord ordinance). I willdefinitely
> put in some trips to the capitol trying to convince legislatorsto
> change our homeschool law. ;) I don't know if I have anything onworksheet
> paper yet for health or spelling.
>
> Last year I had to have dd sit down and fill out a stupid
> about fire safety that said "Stop, drop, roll", so I hadsomething to
> put in for fire safety.wrote:
>
> Sheila
>
>
> --- In [email protected], Earthmomma67@a...
> > In a message dated 12/16/02 10:04:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,way
> > scribblers2@e... writes:
> >
> > > I think you can "monitor" what sort of things are "covered"
> (according
> > > to the ps) in ps high school, and then choose to do it any
> that youstate
> > > like - and I don't mean that you even have to do their
> curriculum, but
> > > only what you need to do to meet whatever requirements your
> has.~~~~
> > >
> >
> > But is this unschooling?
> > Elissa
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line!
>please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@e...), or the
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list,
list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@h...).
>address an email to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
> [email protected]Service.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/02 10:07:37 AM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< And ultimately, because of the power that the Compulsary Attendance Law
gives the superintendent, coupled with the wording of Act 169 that says a
superintendent only needs a "reasonable belief" to question your program, the
superintendent *could* challenge you even if you are NOT underground.
<<If he wins in a due process hearing, your kids would *still* be forced back
into school, and parents can still be fined for truancy, a whopping $300/day
of being "truant".
<<coupled with the wording of Act 169 that says a superintendent...>>
This is Pennsylvania?
Please specify state when any particulars are discussed, because this is an
international list.
There are unschoolers in Pennsylvania who have never had any trouble with the
law. They have a mailing list. Don't live in fear.
Sandra
<< And ultimately, because of the power that the Compulsary Attendance Law
gives the superintendent, coupled with the wording of Act 169 that says a
superintendent only needs a "reasonable belief" to question your program, the
superintendent *could* challenge you even if you are NOT underground.
<<If he wins in a due process hearing, your kids would *still* be forced back
into school, and parents can still be fined for truancy, a whopping $300/day
of being "truant".
>>This sounds like the scare tactics of HSLDA.
<<coupled with the wording of Act 169 that says a superintendent...>>
This is Pennsylvania?
Please specify state when any particulars are discussed, because this is an
international list.
There are unschoolers in Pennsylvania who have never had any trouble with the
law. They have a mailing list. Don't live in fear.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/02 11:31:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:
Also in PA the very worst state to unschool in.
Samples don't just mean workbook pages and math text answers
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
>I know unschoolers in New York state that work wonderfully within the system.
> Well, if you live in a state that requires a portfolio including
> samples of the child's work in the required subjects, you don't have
> much of a choice, do you? Unless you want to homeschool underground
> and take the chance of getting caught, fined, thrown in jail, and
> having your kids taken from you.
>
>
Also in PA the very worst state to unschool in.
Samples don't just mean workbook pages and math text answers
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/02 11:31:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:
Unless you want to homeschool underground
Which IS a choice
level.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Well, if you live in a state that requires a portfolio includingThere'a always other choices!!
> samples of the child's work in the required subjects, you don't have
> much of a choice, do you?
Unless you want to homeschool underground
Which IS a choice
>Not likely. Correct the deficiency and they can do nothing.
> and take the chance of getting caught, fined, thrown in jail, and
> having your kids taken from you.
>That's totally different from Making sure they are keeping up with grade
> I find that if we save brochures and if I keep my eyes open for some
> things I can photocopy, I can usually find enough to fill a portfolio
> with a few samples from each subject.
>
>
level.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/16/02 12:07:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
OR arm myself with a full knowledge of my rights, save a load of money to pay
a lawyer and wait for the fight.
Or move.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> .<<<<<I would do whatever it took to get my children to safety and move.
>
>
> And ultimately, because of the power that the Compulsary Attendance Law
> gives the superintendent, coupled with the wording of Act 169 that says a
> superintendent only needs a "reasonable belief" to question your program,
> the superintendent *could* challenge you even if you are NOT underground.
>
> If he wins in a due process hearing, your kids would *still* be forced
> back into school, and parents can still be fined for truancy, a whopping
> $300/day of being "truant".
>
>
OR arm myself with a full knowledge of my rights, save a load of money to pay
a lawyer and wait for the fight.
Or move.
Elissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85 <[email protected]>
> <<If he wins in a due process hearing, your kids would *still* beforced back
> into school, and parents can still be fined for truancy, a whopping$300/day
> of being "truant".Kristen and I have both heard stories first hand from people who have
> >>
>
> This sounds like the scare tactics of HSLDA.
been fined for truancy for stupid things, like not using the
affidavit the school district wanted them to use (even though the
affidavit met the requirements of the law). Or not handing in a copy
of a highschool diploma (even though the law says you only have to
attest on a notarized affidavat that you have one).
And the law does say that kids could be forced back into school if
they lose a due process hearing.
> <<coupled with the wording of Act 169 that says asuperintendent...>>
>this is an
> This is Pennsylvania?
> Please specify state when any particulars are discussed, because
> international list.Yes.
> There are unschoolers in Pennsylvania who have never had anytrouble with the
> law. They have a mailing list. Don't live in fear.Kristen owns that email list. :)
I am an unschooler in Pennsylvania who have never had any trouble
with the law. I live in a *good* district. (which could change with
one change of personnel in the school district) However, I have
spoken to MANY people in districts neighboring mine who have chosen
to overcomply with the law instead of taking it to court. I know
several people who have had good reason to be fearful.
Sheila