[email protected]

A question: To what degree do you think this applies to 3-year-olds, without
siblings (used to all the attention she wants, plus extra!!)? Our little one
can be remarkably sharing, caring, loving.....or bossy, demanding, nagging,
whiny.....Do others with more experince at this think it's a 3-year-old
thing, or is there more we could be doing to help her understand how to be
more considerate?

Linda

In a message dated 12/12/02 10:46:58 AM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:

> I like that I had this night to share in the midst of this discussion.....I
> think it shows how kids that aren't feeling needy will consider everyone's
> needs, not just their own.
>
> Ren
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/2002 10:17:18 AM Central Standard Time, LsMe@...
writes:


> Do others with more experince at this think it's a 3-year-old
> thing, or is there more we could be doing to help her understand how to be
> more considerate?
>
>

I think it's a three year old thing. I have a three and a four. Three is
harder. Have you read the Ames book "Your Three Year Old"? It's dated in a
lot of ways, but some if it is really helpful.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/02 11:17:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, LsMe@...
writes:

> Do others with more experince at this think it's a 3-year-old
> thing, or is there more we could be doing to help her understand how to be
> more considerate?
>

I think its a 3 year old thing, and I think it's perfectly normal. There is
little reasoning with a 3 year old. They are self centered and self absorbed
by nature. But, they are at the age where they are beginning to autonomize
somewhat. Children model the behavior they see.. She will learn to be
considerate of others by seeing the adults around her showing consideration
to her and to the other people they interact with. Thats all you need to do
to help her understand manners and courtesty.. She'll learn by what she
lives.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Teresa: Thanks for the response. I think it's easy to forget our very verbal
little one is only 3 sometimes, and when I read from so many posters about
the consideration their kids show for others, I start to wonder if we should
be doing something differently...You've made me think, though, and all in all
I'd say our Kalie is headed in a good direction. :) One thing that comes to
mind is her "excuse me, excuse me, excuse me" when she interrupts - just
because it's delivered every 2 minutes or so, at increasing volume and
constantly, all through the day, doesn't detract from her effort! *smile* And
you're right - she picked this up on her own, by listening to others.

I guess we'll just carry on! Thanks!

Linda


In a message dated 12/12/02 7:29:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, >
> grlynbl@... writes:
>
> I think its a 3 year old thing, and I think it's perfectly normal. There
> is
> little reasoning with a 3 year old. They are self centered and self
> absorbed
> by nature. But, they are at the age where they are beginning to autonomize
>
> somewhat. Children model the behavior they see.. She will learn to be
> considerate of others by seeing the adults around her showing consideration
>
> to her and to the other people they interact with. Thats all you need to
> do
> to help her understand manners and courtesty.. She'll learn by what she
> lives.
>
> Teresa
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

katielouba <[email protected]>

Elizabeth: Thank you! Yes, I have this book, and the "Four Year Old"
one, too - someone recommended them just a few weeks agao, and I was
lucky to be able to track them down; they're really helpful. I think
I'll take a look through again.

Sorry, too - somehow I missed your post the first time around. My
computer had a little virus mishap earlier today - all better,
luckily!- and I had to search it out after I saw a reference to it on
another post. I appreciate the input.
Linda


--- In [email protected], ejcrewe@a... wrote:
>
> > Do others with more experince at this think it's a 3-year-old
> > thing, or is there more we could be doing to help her understand
how to be
> > more considerate?

> I think it's a three year old thing. I have a three and a four.
Three is
> harder. Have you read the Ames book "Your Three Year Old"? It's
dated in a
> lot of ways, but some if it is really helpful.
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Beth

hmmm, don't expect that to end anytime soon. My son is 4 and still expects that when he uses the phrase "excuse me" I am supposed to immediately stop what I'm doing or stop the conversation I am in to listen to him...<BG> he gets very dissapointed when I don't always do that!
Beth in GA


One thing that comes to
mind is her "excuse me, excuse me, excuse me" when she interrupts - just
because it's delivered every 2 minutes or so, at increasing volume and
constantly, all through the day, doesn't detract from her effort! *smile* And
you're right - she picked this up on her own, by listening to others.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/02 10:19:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, LsMe@...
writes:

> You've made me think, though, and all in all
> I'd say our Kalie is headed in a good direction. :)

I have a niece named Kalie! She is 8, and she has a little sister named
Chloee who is 3.. so, the "3s" are current in our family. They are so cute
at that age ( well, kids are cute at any age) Enjoy her whiles shes
little.. it goes by so fast...

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Yep, that's it exactly! The world is supposed to stop. I think "excuse me"
also means "I want EVERYONE to pay attention to me now!" (and only her, and
right now......)!

Linda


In a message dated 12/13/02 8:32:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, > "Beth" <
> blali@...> writes:
>
> My son is 4 and still expects that when he uses the phrase "excuse me" I am
> supposed to immediately stop what I'm doing or stop the conversation I am
> in to listen to him...
Beth in GA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 2:07:56 PM !!!First Boot!!!, LsMe@... writes:


> Yep, that's it exactly! The world is supposed to stop. I think "excuse me"
> also means "I want EVERYONE to pay attention to me now!" (and only her, and
>
> right now......)!
>
> Linda
>

LOL - when our kids first started saying the word "please" they thought if
they said it they could have anything they wanted. I miss those days!

Beth Allen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Teresa: We've never run across another Kalie with the same spelling
before.They are definitely cute at 3, as our Kalie tells us :) ! You're
right - it goes soooo fast. I'm just happy I'm home with her - she changes
every day.
Linda


In a message dated 12/13/02 8:32:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, g>
> rlynbl@... writes:
> I have a niece named Kalie! She is 8, and she has a little sister named
> Chloee who is 3.. so, the "3s" are current in our family. They are so cute
>
> at that age ( well, kids are cute at any age) Enjoy her whiles shes
> little.. it goes by so fast...
>
> Teresa
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Teresa <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected], LsMe@a... wrote:
> Teresa: We've never run across another Kalie with the same spelling
> before.

I know! Ive never seen "Kalie" spelled the same way either ( til
your daughter) I just thought of something.. I am assuming that your
daughters name is pronounced the same as my niece.. Her name is
pronounced like "Callie" , rhymes with "Sally" Is that your
daughters name, or is it like "Kaylee" , rhymes with "Hailey".. Ha!
were playing the name game.. :-)

Teresa

Mary Bianco

>From: LsMe@...

<<Yep, that's it exactly! The world is supposed to stop. I think "excuse me"
also means "I want EVERYONE to pay attention to me now!" (and only her, and
right now......)!>>


Well at 3 or 4, I don't see that as a big deal. I mean at that age, they do
indeed want you to stop right away and pay attention to what they have to
say or show you. And if they are understanding that an excuse me means just
that, I would give it to them. I have no problem with excusing myself from
what I'm doing or who I'm talking to when my 2 year old does it. Pretty much
anyone I would be speaking to would understand and if they didn't, they're
probably not important anyway. Until the child is old enough to get what it
means, as in the world doesn't stop but I'm being polite for something real
important, I would let them come first.

My two middle children are soon to be 7 and 8 and are just now getting it
and really only excuse themselves for something they feel is really
important. Now what is important to them right now won't be the same as the
important stuff to my 17 year old. Just like what the 2 year old sees as
important now also.

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
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[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 9:34:27 AM, mummyone24@... writes:

<< Well at 3 or 4, I don't see that as a big deal. I mean at that age, they
do
indeed want you to stop right away and pay attention to what they have to
say or show you. And if they are understanding that an excuse me means just
that, I would give it to them. I have no problem with excusing myself from
what I'm doing or who I'm talking to when my 2 year old does it. Pretty much
anyone I would be speaking to would understand and if they didn't, they're
probably not important anyway. >>

I had too many adult friends who didn't understand. Most of them just aren't
hanging around anymore! <g>

It's always a problem that moms-at-home are seen as available anytime, being
unemployed and all. But one thing I took to heart from La Leche League,
seeing it modelled by the leaders, was that children come first, before
meetings, before adult discussons, because their needs are immediate and the
adults should be mature enough to wait thirty seconds.

There have been a couple of times I've stated it, and a hundred I've just
reminded myself quietly, that when I'm with my homeschooled children I AM at
work, and others who want my time can't take precedence over my very real
job, which is having my children home for a myriad of good reasons. And
training them not to interrupt adults has never been in my top hundred
reasons.

At a party a few months ago at a party where families with kids were (the
birthday of a one-year-old who nearly hadn't survived a way-preemie birth), I
saw the mom of a three year old shame him directly and harshly for needing
her while she was talking to an adult. She bent down and said "I AM TALKING
WITH AN ADULT AND YOU WILL WAIT." He really needed something, so I just
helped him myself. When she had finished her conversation, she didn't even
look around to see if he still needed something. He wasn't as important as
she was. His need for his mother was much smaller than his mother's need to
chat.

Kids won't learn to respect others from being disrespected.

Sandra

[email protected]

Aha! It is different, after all. Our Kalie is pronounced "Kaylee", although
people pronounce it "Callie" all the time. And we thought it was an easy one!
*smile*

Linda


In a message dated 12/13/02 11:35:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, >
> "Teresa <grlynbl@...>" writes:
>
> I know! Ive never seen "Kalie" spelled the same way either ( til
> your daughter) I just thought of something.. I am assuming that your
> daughters name is pronounced the same as my niece.. Her name is
> pronounced like "Callie" , rhymes with "Sally" Is that your
> daughters name, or is it like "Kaylee" , rhymes with "Hailey".. Ha!
> were playing the name game.. :-)
>
> Teresa
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 2:21:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, LsMe@...
writes:

> Aha! It is different, after all. Our Kalie is pronounced "Kaylee", although
> people pronounce it "Callie" all the time. And we thought it was an easy
> one!
> *smile*
>
> Linda
>

Yeah, that thought occured to me, because our Kalie gets "Kaylee" all the
time. .. I dont know why my sister spelled it that way.. Her name is Karen,
maybe that why she wanted to use the 'K" "shrug" Its a pretty name either
way your pronounce it.

Teresa



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

This is pretty much what we do with Kalie, too. At 3, if we don't give her
the floor, she takes it *grin* and no one else can speak anyway, because of
all the loud "excuse me's" flying around in the air. The really frustrating
part can be during meals, but while we occasionally try to tell her that
"Daddy is trying to tell a story" or something similar, we realize she hasn't
seen Daddy all day (usually), and just has a lot of really important things
to say!

We used to enjoy when she was about 2 1/2, and if we grownups were talking to
each other, but not directly to Kalie, we'd hear, "I want to be part of the
conversation, too!". And so we'd assure her she was, and try to draw her in a
bit. We've always treated her like the person she is - it makes me sad when I
see so many parents ignore what their little ones have to say. I always stop
an adult conversation myself if someone else's child interrupts and is
ignored - just like I would stop it for an adult in the same situation. If
something is private, I always thought it should be discussed privately - why
is it that so many people (my mom, my sisters) insist that children aren't
listening and can't understand??

Linda



In a message dated 12/13/02 11:35:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, >
> "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...> writes:
>
> >From: LsMe@...
>
> <<Yep, that's it exactly! The world is supposed to stop. I think "excuse
> me"
> also means "I want EVERYONE to pay attention to me now!" (and only her, and
>
> right now......)!>>
>
>
> Well at 3 or 4, I don't see that as a big deal. I mean at that age, they do
>
> indeed want you to stop right away and pay attention to what they have to
> say or show you. And if they are understanding that an excuse me means just
>
> that, I would give it to them. I have no problem with excusing myself from
> what I'm doing or who I'm talking to when my 2 year old does it. Pretty
> much
> anyone I would be speaking to would understand and if they didn't, they're
> probably not important anyway. Until the child is old enough to get what it
>
> means, as in the world doesn't stop but I'm being polite for something real
>
> important, I would let them come first.
>
> My two middle children are soon to be 7 and 8 and are just now getting it
> and really only excuse themselves for something they feel is really
> important. Now what is important to them right now won't be the same as the
>
> important stuff to my 17 year old. Just like what the 2 year old sees as
> important now also.
>
> Mary B
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 2:44:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> SandraDodd@... writes:
> There have been a couple of times I've stated it, and a hundred I've just
> reminded myself quietly, that when I'm with my homeschooled children I AM
> at
> work, and others who want my time can't take precedence over my very real
> job, which is having my children home for a myriad of good reasons.

This is such a wonderful thought! This is the very reason we have caller ID,
and I don't answer the phone a lot, but no one gets it when I say I'm busy
with my daughter. "I AM at work"! Thanks for stating this so clearly - I love
it!

> A few months ago at a party where families with kids were (the
> birthday of a one-year-old who nearly hadn't survived a way-preemie birth),
> I
> saw the mom of a three year old shame him directly and harshly for needing
> her while she was talking to an adult. She bent down and said "I AM
> TALKING
> WITH AN ADULT AND YOU WILL WAIT." He really needed something, so I just
> helped him myself. When she had finished her conversation, she didn't even
>
> look around to see if he still needed something. He wasn't as important as
>
> she was. His need for his mother was much smaller than his mother's need
> to
> chat.
>

This mother's behavior disgusts me. I see it all the time, this exact
scenario, and I have to say it makes me physically uncomfortable when I see
someone treat their child in a manner that seems so rude and abusive.
Children really want so little - why can't they have it, if it's within our
power? Thank you for taking care of this little boy's needs - I would hope
someone would be as generous with my 3-year-old if I were not with her (which
I can't imagine anyway!).

Linda








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 3:02:52 PM, LsMe@... writes:

<< Children really want so little - why can't they have it, if it's within
our
power? Thank you for taking care of this little boy's needs - I would hope
someone would be as generous with my 3-year-old if I were not with her >>

Probably I was more sensitized to her behavior because we were there to
celebrate the survival of a multiply-near-lost child, and it seems that maybe
for those few hours she could have been more grateful to have her healthy
three year old able to walk over, hop and pull on her. She should have
hugged him and cried for joy.

Sandra

Stephanie Elms

> Well at 3 or 4, I don't see that as a big deal. I mean at
> that age, they do
> indeed want you to stop right away and pay attention to what
> they have to
> say or show you. And if they are understanding that an excuse
> me means just
> that, I would give it to them. I have no problem with
> excusing myself from
> what I'm doing or who I'm talking to when my 2 year old does
> it. Pretty much
> anyone I would be speaking to would understand and if they
> didn't, they're
> probably not important anyway. Until the child is old enough
> to get what it
> means, as in the world doesn't stop but I'm being polite for
> something real
> important, I would let them come first.

It is so nice to hear other people say that it is OK to stop and talk
with their 2 yo! I have a lot of friends who insist on keeping a whiny
toddler waiting because "they have to learn".

And my all time "favorite" was at a playgroup one time...I had sat down
on a chair, only to have a sweet little 2 yo girl come up and say, "excuse
me" polite as could be because she had been sitting there a minute before and
I hadn't noticed. As I started to get up to move and tell her I am sorry,
her mom rushed over and told me that I didn't have to move because "Children
must always defer to adults". My jaw just about hit the ground. I was so
caught off guard that I did not say anything other then to say that it was
ok, apologize to the little girl and take a different seat. I had never had
anyone put it so blatantly...after thinking about it for awhile, I wish that
I had said something to the mom about what an unhealthy thing this was to teach
a child, especially a girl. Talk about setting her up to be taken advantage of,
or even worse abused. If she is taught by her parents that she is less important then
others, how will she learn to respect herself or stand up for herself?

So sad...

Stephanie E.

Mary Bianco

>From: SandraDodd@...

<< (snip)He really needed something, so I just helped him myself. When she
had finished her conversation, she didn't even look around to see if he
still needed something. He wasn't as important as she was. His need for
his mother was much smaller than his mother's need to chat.

Kids won't learn to respect others from being disrespected.>>


That's sad when parents do that. Especially when they don't even try to
follow up after to see what the child wanted. I have seen a few parents just
totally tune out when their child calls them. I'm amazed at how they can
just not choose to hear. I have also seen those children walk away and then
the parent will state as to how if you wait long enough, the child will go
away as it wasn't important anyway. This was long ago before I would open my
mouth to help but it always stuck with me. Stuck with me so that I would
never do that to my kids or anyone else's who wanted me. Can't help but
wonder how those kids turned out now.

Mary B


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[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 5:07:43 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:

<< It is so nice to hear other people say that it is OK to stop and talk
with their 2 yo! I have a lot of friends who insist on keeping a whiny
toddler waiting because "they have to learn". >>

yikes, but WHAT they will learn!

They'll learn that it's perfectly okay to ignore others.
GOOD for those who are breaking that cycle!!

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 5:07:43 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:

<< And my all time "favorite" was at a playgroup one time...I had sat down
on a chair, only to have a sweet little 2 yo girl come up and say, "excuse
me" polite as could be because she had been sitting there a minute before and
I hadn't noticed. As I started to get up to move and tell her I am sorry,
her mom rushed over and told me that I didn't have to move because "Children
must always defer to adults". >>

Where did this happen?

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 5:24:42 PM, mummyone24@... writes:

<< I'm amazed at how they can
just not choose to hear. I have also seen those children walk away and then
the parent will state as to how if you wait long enough, the child will go
away as it wasn't important anyway. This was long ago before I would open my
mouth to help but it always stuck with me. Stuck with me so that I would
never do that to my kids or anyone else's who wanted me. Can't help but
wonder how those kids turned out now.
>>

They're probably tuning out wives and neighbors and children without feeling
the least pinge of guilt.

Stephanie Elms

> As I started to get up to move and tell her
> I am sorry,
> her mom rushed over and told me that I didn't have to move
> because "Children
> must always defer to adults". >>
>
> Where did this happen?

Northern Virginia. The family is military and new to the area though. Not sure
where they came from before.

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/14/02 9:36:59 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:

<< > Where did this happen?

<<Northern Virginia. The family is military and new to the area though. Not
sure
where they came from before. >>

I was wondering how much of that exists in my own lineage (back up to Texans,
and southerners before that). There was certainly the kids' table at
Thanksgiving (which makes sense for the kids, too, because the big table was
boring), and kids didn't sit when adults needed to sit, but that's still true
at my house today--not by training or reminder, but when there's any number
of kids and several adults, the kids take off to do better things than sit
and talk.

To have it laid out as a rule instead of the kind of default rule nearly
shocked me. But maybe because it was a public place and not a home. Seems
in public places rules are off. Except busses. Busses I still expect kids
to let adults sit. But it's courtesy, not "a rule."

Within the SCA we use the word "defer" a fair amount, and there's a lot of
"deference" to rank and office. But in regular dealings with people I rarely
even think of that term.

Sandra