Julie Stauffer

I am apparently receiving digests out of order so I will respond as best I
can.

<<How old is he?>>

Zach is 9. He has always been a difficult child, has trouble accepting any
kind of limits, keeps himself strung so tight you could bounce quarters off
of him. I had not really thought about the adoption thing being part of
this until I wrote it out. Now I'm almost sure it is. The timing is right
and I recall a couple of supposedly humorous comments about dh and I not
being his parents. Well, I guess I don't get unschooler of the year OR mom
of the year :(

If nothing else, the last couple of days have been a chance for us to
regroup and step away from our resentments for each other. Zach just went
to bed with a big hug and told me he hopes tomorrow is just like today. I
think he really did see the controls I put in place as me "babying" him.
With 3 younger siblings, my lap is rarely empty so perhaps this has been
some kind of twisted cuddling. Now that I have a clearer picture as to what
is going on, I think I can make sure we have time for the right kind of
cuddling and hopefully move back away from imposed structure.

Thanks so much for the sounding board.

Julie

Tammie Thomas

I also agree. I feel that unschooling is different for each person, just as we are all different. I have learned a long time ago, take what you like and leave the rest. This has been my moto in my life. I am new and my first post caught me off guard. I will not respond to someone more than once if I don't feel it's for the positive and growth. I am not the type of person who is afraid of conflict. I feel it's important to express how one is feeling, this is how we grow, learn and respect one another.
Everyone has thier own way to get to balance in thier life. I can not say that my way is right and your way is wrong. We each have different needs and priorities. I find balance comes from allow my children freedom to be who the are, security to feelo safe, love to know that thier are needed and peace knowing you have faith in tham and trust them this is how we, my family creates balance in our life.
TAMMIE



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85 <[email protected]>

> I also agree. I feel that unschooling is different for each
person, just as we are all different

What kinds of things are you talking about that unschoolers do
differently from each other? Are you talking about different people
having different religions or some people being vegetarians, or are
you talking about actually unschooling differently? I'm just not
sure what kinds of stuff you're talking about.

Sheila

Fetteroll

on 12/12/02 10:01 PM, Tammie Thomas at soulfulconnections@... wrote:

> I feel that unschooling is different for each person

But the unschooling *philosophy* is not different. What unschooling looks
like in practice will be different in each family but there will be some
underlying similarities.

A child who picks up math from liking math workbooks is going to look very
different from a child who picks up math by manipulating the numbers she
encounters in real life. But the underlying philosophy -- that we trust kids
to know what they need (assuming they're able to access what they need!) --
is there regardless of how the child likes to learn.

If someone is doing something that doesn't sound like it meshes with the
unschooling philosophy it's helpful for those who are silently reading (it's
what I did when I started reading about homeschooling) if statements get
questioned and held up to examination. If I say my daughter learns math from
workbooks I'd surely want someone to question that! That statement tells
people something about how someone who calls herself an unschooler has her
child learn math but it doesn't help anyone figure out what the philosophy
of unschooling is or how it works or how they can figure out how to apply it
to their lives. It's just an action with no meaning behind it.

So, though unschooling will look different in each family, we need to keep
talking about *why* we're doing what we're doing in order to help people
understand what unschooling is. The why without the what would be pretty
esoteric. But the what without the why would devolve the list into something
more akin to eclectic or relaxed homeschooling. What we do helps people
understand the unschooling philosophy better -- but only if what we do is
based on the unschooling philosophy! So actions that don't sound like they
fit the unschooling philosophy get questioned.

Joyce

Betsy

**
So, though unschooling will look different in each family, we need to keep
talking about *why* we're doing what we're doing in order to help people
understand what unschooling is.**

I'll bite. <g>

Why is not having a bedtime a necessary condition (philosophically) for unschooling?

Also, how can we address the fact that advice that makes lots of sense
for older children may not fit much younger kids? We have a range of
kid ages on the list, probably ranging from 0 to 25. Many parents would
be very uncomfortable letting a three year old stay up after all the
older people in the house were asleep, yet general, age-neutral advice
can make it *sound* like that's what's being suggested. Did anyone mean
to suggest that very young children can and should stay up alone?

I try to be pretty doctrinaire in my unschooling. I know that I've
studied up enough to pass whatever unschooling written test is ever
invented. <g> But I "cheat" in real life and we have a quieting down
and getting ready for bed time in my family that I nudge everybody
about. I'm also choosing to move this going-to-bedtime from 10 to 9pm
to help my husband be less exhausted. My son didn't ask me to do this,
but he's finding it very doable now that it gets dark so early.

When I say "we have a bedtime" I don't mean that I march my son to his
bed and leave him there against his protests. But someone reading my
words, might jump to the conclusion that bedtime in my family means
whatever "bedtime" meant in their family of origin. I understand how
that could be the first thing that comes to mind, but it isn't a very
accurate guess.

I think when we discuss "not having a bedtime" (or whatever exact phrase
we used) it's natural for people reading to imagine a conventional home
scene, just with the bedtime events deleted. It can be hard to know,
from reading a few short sentences, what events are added, or the tone
of these events. This is just one example of the general case that it's
easy to roughly understand what unschooling ISN'T, but it's hard to
understand what unschooling IS.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 10:29:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:

> This is just one example of the general case that it's
> easy to roughly understand what unschooling ISN'T, but it's hard to
> understand what unschooling IS.
>

I agree Betsy, it is confusing. And, you are also right in making the point
about "age appropiateness" .. I keep thinking and thinking about the freedoms
of our children. And our children having a say in what goes on in our
family. A very recent incident keeps coming to my mind...

Our family had planned for over a month on going camping over the
Thanksgiving holiday. The week before Thanksgiving, our oldest son, Landon,
found out that his drama club was going shopping for a needy family on the
day that we were leaving. He REALLY enjoys this outing( theyve been doing it
for 3 years), and I think there was a certain girl involved that he REALLY
wanted to see. Anyway, he asked if we could delay our departure until after
the shopping trip. There was no way. The trip was a 6 hour drive, and our
getting a campsite was contingent on first come first serve, and we couldn't
risk getting there late. If he had went shopping, we couldn't have left til
after 2:00 at the earliest.. which was too late to insure getting a campsite
( plus we would have gotten there after dark, had to set up camp in the dark,
etc etc) I told him he could stay at home or with his Grandparents. The
choice was his to make.. Stay or go. The problem was, he wanted to do both.
. He wanted to go shopping, but he didnt want to miss the whole camping trip.
We had to take a majority vote.. Everyone else wanted to leave on
Wednesday, so he got voted out... OH BOY was he mad.. no, mad is not the
word, he was livid. It really broke my heart for him, because I do remember
being 16 and the high emotion of "things" I know he felt like he was missing
the biggest event in the world. He pushed and begged and cussed and
pleaded and tried every guilt inducing trick in the world. ( same stunts I
pulled on my parents..lol) But we had to stand firm.. He had to sacrifice
his needs and wants for the rest of the family. Now, maybe some think my
son is selfish and does not follow principles. I say, heck, he's 16 and that
how kids act. On the whole, he is a VERY good kid, mature, responsible, and
considerate. He was just frustrated over the conflict of scheduling and he
felt "screwed over" because he didnt get to go with his friends. He went
camping with us and after a day of pouting and ignoring us( we left him alone
to sulk), he came around and he had a really good time. Deep down he
understood why we couldnt delay our trip just for him, but he felt like he
had to make every effort to get his way.

The purpose of me telling this long story? Well, its just a practical
example of how sometimes ( in MY family) we do have to set limits and enforce
restrictions. I am curious, as to how "total unschooling" parents would have
handled the same situation.. And PLEASE dont say the situation would have
never come up. If your children are "above and beyond" normal teen
behaviour, just humor me and speak hypothetically.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**The purpose of me telling this long story? Well, its just a practical
example of how sometimes ( in MY family) we do have to set limits and
enforce
restrictions. I am curious, as to how "total unschooling" parents would
have
handled the same situation.. And PLEASE dont say the situation would
have
never come up. If your children are "above and beyond" normal teen
behaviour, just humor me and speak hypothetically.**

Hi, Teresa --

Thanks for sharing. But, brace yourself, you'll probably get
suggestions now, and that's frustrating, as there is no way to go back
in time and change stuff.

I think your example is a great discussion example, if we can keep it
from feeling "personal" for you. I can see all sides of the story. My
dh is totally paranoid about Thanksgiving traffic. More than about any
other traffic throughout the year. And he pressures me unmercifully to
get me up and out the door early, early, early. (Sometimes I think he
overdoes it!)

I can also remember, as a teen, my mother labling me "manipulative"
(that hurt!) for using all the methods that your son did to try to get
what I wanted. I can't remember the details of my case, except that it
was a logistical problem involving my mom, my brother and I, with only
one car, wanting to go all kinds of far apart different places over the
course of the weekend. I kept proposing scenarios and my mom kept
shooting them down. She thinks I was trying to make her feel guilty
(apparently because she DID), but I wasn't trying to do that, I was just
trying to get what I wanted. I had the feeling that her mind was made
up in advance, and that she wasn't trying to consider alternatives with
me. And, *sometimes*, I'm guilty of doing that with MY son, I'll
calculate a complicated logistical scenario in my mind and reduce it to
"Nope, we don't have time today."

All I can think of in your scenario is (1) gee, I wish the group going
shopping could have announced the date earlier and (2) maybe some
alternative transportation to get your son to the camping site a day
later was possible. (But, I'm guessing that you already considered
that. I know there isn't great bus transportation to most wilderness
sites and most forms of transportation are completely full at
Thanksgiving time.)

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 8:29:28 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< I try to be pretty doctrinaire in my unschooling. I know that I've
studied up enough to pass whatever unschooling written test is ever
invented. <g> >>

DOH! I just sent something about there being no test, and now I find out
there might be one!

<<When I say "we have a bedtime" I don't mean that I march my son to his
bed and leave him there against his protests. But someone reading my
words, might jump to the conclusion that bedtime in my family means
whatever "bedtime" meant in their family of origin.>>

I think there's a huge difference between a family getting quiet and going to
sleep and parents declaring that the clock is IT and children will do what
parents say because it's good for them to learn to be obedient. Motivation,
belief, respect--all kinds of real factors.

There are times when I say "You need to go to bed" to one of my kids or
another. Sometimes to company. But it's always for some specific reason,
and it doesn't mean "You have to go to bed when I say because I am liking
saying 'go to bed.'"

Real "go to bed" scenarios from the past six months. I'm thinking there
might have been eight or so:

Marty and two visiting kids wake me up for the second time, 3:30 a.m. or so,
being TRULY loud and raucous in the library. "You guys need to go to bed if
you can't be quieter." They went to bed.

Holly being exhausted and whimpery and dropping to the floor to whimper, at
midnight. "Holly, you need to go to bed. You're too sleepy to be nice, and
you're not thinking anymore. Go to bed."

Kirby needing to get up early and putzing around aimlessly with less than
eight hours between him and the alarm. "Why don't you just go to sleep and
figure this stuff out in the morning."

But I've said the same to my husband if he seemed restless and out of it.
It's not a controlling thing so much as a "Given all factors, it seems you'd
be better off asleep, because when you wake up all this will be better."

-=-I think when we discuss "not having a bedtime" (or whatever exact phrase
we used) it's natural for people reading to imagine a conventional home
scene, just with the bedtime events deleted. It can be hard to know,
from reading a few short sentences, what events are added, or the tone
of these events. -=-

Yep.

Sandra

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 8:51:31 AM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< The purpose of me telling this long story? Well, its just a practical
example of how sometimes ( in MY family) we do have to set limits and enforce
restrictions. >>

<<He pushed and begged and cussed and
pleaded and tried every guilt inducing trick in the world. ( same stunts I
pulled on my parents..lol) >>

Kirby, who usually has social-life obligations daily, went with us to the
grandparents' house. He was so cooperative about it, I did him a really big
favor, and told the grandparents, when it was just me and them, that I
figured this might be our last trip as the whole family, that probably Kirby
would be busy other ways from there on out. Keith's mom said the last time
they had taken Keith on a family trip he was fifteen and pretty resistent.
Woohoo!!!! Kirby beat the record and he's off the hook now. If he goes back
to visit with us, it will be a total bonus round.

But we did remind him a couple of times not to commit to anything around
Thanksgiving, because of that trip.

I wish your son's friends could have planned the shopping trip around his
obligations. I would suggest to him to let his friends know in advance, next
time there's an obligation coming up.

-=-<<He pushed and begged and cussed and
pleaded and tried every guilt inducing trick in the world. ( same stunts I
pulled on my parents..lol) >>-=-

This is another La Leche League trick I learned with babies. If you think of
it from his point of view, he wasn't pulling stunts. He was negotiating. If
you define his actions in a bad light (even in your own head), then it cuts
him off from your compassion.

Someone who pulls stunts and cusses is less worthy of consideration than
someone who is legitimately trying to persuade his parents to make a
concession for something he really wants.

It's not just words, it's the thoughts we have that go with those words.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 10:29:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:

> Why is not having a bedtime a necessary condition (philosophically) for
> unschooling?
>

Because what kind of message are we sending when we tell our children, "You
are the one who is able to make the choice on when is the right time for you
to learn how to read/compute/write, BUT you aren't capable of knowing when it
is the right time for you to go to bed. That is something WE adults must tell
you." So go to bed, I'm tired. LOL
That's why many here say that when you keep telling a child they are X
(tired, hungry/nothungry, cold) they will take a very very long time to learn
that they are in faxt X and THEY are capable of doing something about it.
Even if doing something about it is telling Mom to make an omelet at 3:00 am.
<g>
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 10:29:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:

> Also, how can we address the fact that advice that makes lots of sense
> for older children may not fit much younger kids? We have a range of
> kid ages on the list, probably ranging from 0 to 25. Many parents would
> be very uncomfortable letting a three year old stay up after all the
> older people in the house were asleep, yet general, age-neutral advice
> can make it *sound* like that's what's being suggested
0-3 involves alot of teaching about decifering (sp?) emotions and feelings
I didn't believe it either at first but I trusted what these wonderful
helpful experienced women were telling me. My 3 (THREE!) year old knows when
he is tired and asks to go to bed, he knows that if he is not tired he can
watch cartoons quietly in our bed as long as he lets us sleep. He knows that
he needs to stay in our room but wouldn't be likely to wander the apt. at
night since there's no one around. There's nothing to do. He knows when he is
not cold which rarely corresponds with my feeling of being cold.
He KNOWS. Most children are believed to NOT KNOW, although they do. We just
have to
TRUST.
And THAT is what is so hard.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 10:51:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
grlynbl@... writes:

> Well, its just a practical
> example of how sometimes ( in MY family) we do have to set limits and
> enforce
> restrictions. I am curious, as to how "total unschooling" parents would
> have
> handled the same situation..

Well, I don't think that there WERE any limits set or restrictions enforced
there. He had an option, he chose one of the options. He was very
disappointed. That's OK!
In my family we don't vote on thisgs, I think it just leads to feeling like
NO ONE is willing to give the unhappy party a break.
I would have spent alot of time trying to find ways for him to determine deep
down what was important and let him know that it was ok to do just the one.
Was there other options besided staying home or with the Gparents? Could he
have stayed at a few different friends houses? something really fun to make
up for missing the camping trip?
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 2:33:55 PM, Earthmomma67@... writes:

<< That's why many here say that when you keep telling a child they are X
(tired, hungry/nothungry, cold) they will take a very very long time to learn
that they are in faxt X and THEY are capable of doing something about it. >>

Elissa's points are good, but I want to say that we're getting a
carts-before-horses situation building up about some points.

<<> Why is not having a bedtime a necessary condition (philosophically) for
unschooling?>>

I don't think it is.

I think there have been lots of discussion which started from "Yes, they will
laern things when it becomes just a fun part of life, or when they need to
know" go on to "He would watch TV all day if I let him."

Then we say, "No, if you let him watch all he wants, he will quit at some
point. If you don't let him, he can NEVER quit on his own."

So people try that and say "Oh, you were right. He turns it off more now
than he did before, and some days it's not on at all."

And some people extend that to "If you let him eat as much candy as he wants,
he'll stop."

And they do.

And video games; same.

And bedtime; same.

We started off with toddlers we didn't know would be homeschoolers, and we
let them sleep late if they wanted, nap when they wanted to, or not at all,
we let them choose their foods from whatever we had, and let them pick things
out at the store. I think it made it easier to unschool since even when
they were five our kids were already making choices based on real
considerations, and had learned to sleep when they were tired, eat when they
were hungry, and not eat when they were NOT hungry.

So while it's not "necessary," it can easily be seen as part of the same
continuum, and involving the same sort of trust and respect.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 4:54:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> So while it's not "necessary," it can easily be seen as part of the same
> continuum, and involving the same sort of trust and respect.
>
> Sandra
>
>
Oooh! She's much better than I am.
It can be such a curse that I was born with looks but no brains.LOL
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

waptia <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/13/02 8:51:31 AM, grlynbl@a... writes:

> -=-<<He pushed and begged and cussed and
> pleaded and tried every guilt inducing trick in the world. ( same
stunts I
> pulled on my parents..lol) >>-=-
>
> This is another La Leche League trick I learned with babies. If
you
think of
> it from his point of view, he wasn't pulling stunts. He was
negotiating. If
> you define his actions in a bad light (even in your own head), then
it cuts
> him off from your compassion.
>
> Someone who pulls stunts and cusses is less worthy of consideration
than
> someone who is legitimately trying to persuade his parents to make
a
> concession for something he really wants.
>
> It's not just words, it's the thoughts we have that go with those
words.
>
> Sandra


This is such a big, Big, BIG concept. People come over to this list
and say the same thing they've been saying for years, many times the
same thing their parents said to them. They are totally desensitized
to the strong power of negative words and thoughts. Someone asks or
responds to the negativity and they it makes them feel defensive.
"Why aren't these thoughts or words OK?" It can be a painful
process,
especially in public, to have one's very thoughts held up and
examined.

I don't know if there is any less painful way to experience a shift
in paradigm. Treating children like real humans who deserve respect
is
alien to the United States culture and most of the world. We give a
lot of lip service to families and their values and living in a cute
little MacDonald's world but the reality, as any woman who has walked
out in public with her children is only too aware of, is very harsh.

One small step is changing the negative tapes that play in our head
and the words we use to our children and to the people we talk to
about our children. Why not ask oneself, "If I can't say it
respectfully without shaming or blaming my child, is it really the
best way to describe the situation?" We get better at this as we
practice using words (and Sandra is so very good at this) that
clearly describe the situation while not blaming or shaming the
child.
It is a journey, it doesn't happen overnight and we might not be
perfect at it. But we TRY. And we know that it is working when we
hear
someone say something that a few weeks or years ago we might have
said
ourselves and we feel it like the harsh scrape of lava soap against
our inner skin.

Peggy

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 1:42:41 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< While a parent who concentrates 100% on her kids all the time
has a special gift of unlimited time and energy with her kids, it
might have the deficit of her children not seeing her pursue any of
her own goals and plans. She might never take time for herself, and
her own needs. >>

No one here has advocated this.
In fact, one of the main principles of unschooling here, is that the parent
passionately and joyously follow their interests, thereby being a good
example of how to live a meaningful life and stay curious and interested in
life.

Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 1:42:41 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< I even know unschooling
families where both of the parents work and they hire a nanny to
unschool their kids. >>

If unschooling is not doing school, how do you hire anyone to "do" it?
That doesn't make any sense.

Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 5:05:44 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< It can be such a curse that I was born with looks but no brains.LOL
Elissa >>

I wouldn't say that Elissa!!
But you are quite a pretty lil thang....and when I say little people, I mean
she's about as big around as my ARM!! sheesh

Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

Stephanie Elms

> I didn't believe it either at first but I trusted what these
> wonderful
> helpful experienced women were telling me. My 3 (THREE!) year
> old knows when
> he is tired and asks to go to bed, he knows that if he is not
> tired he can
> watch cartoons quietly in our bed as long as he lets us
> sleep. He knows that
> he needs to stay in our room but wouldn't be likely to wander
> the apt. at
> night since there's no one around. There's nothing to do. He
> knows when he is
> not cold which rarely corresponds with my feeling of being cold.
> He KNOWS. Most children are believed to NOT KNOW, although
> they do. We just
> have to
> TRUST.
> And THAT is what is so hard.

My 3 yo is actually having an easier time adjusting to no food limits and no tv limits then
my 6 yo. I have found that although Kyle is eating more junk food, he is also eating a
much more balanced diet then Jason is. The other day, Kyle wanted marshmallows for lunch.
I got some for him. I then asked if he wanted to share some of my spaghetti with me.
He said yes, so he would eat a marshmallow, then come over and have a couple of bites
of spaghetti. I just had to laugh. Jason however is still in binge mode, but I am seeing
small signs of improvement, so I haven't given up hope....

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 11:25:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> There are times when I say "You need to go to bed" to one of my kids or
> another. Sometimes to company. But it's always for some specific reason,
> and it doesn't mean "You have to go to bed when I say because I am liking
> saying 'go to bed.'"
>
> Real "go to bed" scenarios from the past six months. I'm thinking there
> might have been eight or so:
>
> Marty and two visiting kids wake me up for the second time, 3:30 a.m. or
> so,
> being TRULY loud and raucous in the library. "You guys need to go to bed
> if
> you can't be quieter." They went to bed.
>
> Holly being exhausted and whimpery and dropping to the floor to whimper, at
>
> midnight. "Holly, you need to go to bed. You're too sleepy to be nice,
> and
> you're not thinking anymore. Go to bed."
>
> Kirby needing to get up early and putzing around aimlessly with less than
> eight hours between him and the alarm. "Why don't you just go to sleep
> and
> figure this stuff out in the morning."
>
> But I've said the same to my husband if he seemed restless and out of it.
> It's not a controlling thing so much as a "Given all factors, it seems
> you'd
> be better off asleep, because when you wake up all this will be better."
>
> -=-I think when we discuss "not having a bedtime" (or whatever exact phrase
> we used) it's natural for people reading to imagine a conventional home
> scene, just with the bedtime events deleted. It can be hard to know,
> from reading a few short sentences, what events are added, or the tone
> of these events. -=-
>

Now this was really helpful.

Thanks for sharing

Heidi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Beth

Well, speaking of bedtimes etc,....here I sit at midnight with my 19 month old daughter in the next room watching tv, because 1 1/2 hrs ago she was crying that she didn't want to go to sleep but wanted to go downstairs. After 20 min of trying to get her to relax I gave up...I can't force the child to sleep! Apparently she is going through some sort of developmental stage and she will be fine with 2-3 hours less sleep tonight than normal---or she'll sleep in tommorrow. No problem!
Beth-in GA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/2002 11:24:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
> << I even know unschooling
> families where both of the parents work and they hire a nanny to
> unschool their kids. >>
>
> If unschooling is not doing school, how do you hire anyone to "do" it?
> That doesn't make any sense.

Both parents work, but there's someone at home to cart the kids everywhere.
We had an au pair many years ago prior to beginning our unschooling journey.
She was our neighbor in Germany who came back to the States to live with us
for a year and take care of Cameron. She's his "other mom"--still.

Unschooling STILL has to be "done" as far as going places and doing things!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/14/02 12:13:14 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Well, speaking of bedtimes etc,....here I sit at midnight with my 19 month
old daughter in the next room watching tv, >>

If it makes you feel any better, midnight seems to be the magic hour around
here when the 22 mo. old, 5 y.o and 9 y.o. all are finally tired!!

Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/14/02 7:46:11 AM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Unschooling STILL has to be "done" as far as going places and doing
things! >>

Yes, I can understand that. But when someone says "we hired someone to DO the
unschooling" it just doesn't sound right.
Perhaps, "we hired a Nanny to help us with the kids" makes more sense.


Ren
"Knowledge will not always take the place of simple observation."
~Arnold Lobel
Unschooling support at pensacolaunschoolers.com

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 10:01:32 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:

<< The other day, Kyle wanted marshmallows for lunch.
I got some for him. I then asked if he wanted to share some of my spaghetti
with me.
He said yes, so he would eat a marshmallow, then come over and have a couple
of bites
of spaghetti. I just had to laugh. Jason however is still in binge mode, but
I am seeing
small signs of improvement, so I haven't given up hope.... >>

Nothing will turn people against marshmallows like marshmallows! I just
threw away half a bag of very stale (not yet wholly petrified) ones from the
basket near the fireplace where we kept marshmallows and forks. Last year I
don't remember anyone roasting one at all, so this bag could have been over a
year old.

But as building materials, the miniature marshmallows and little flat
toothpicks are WONDERFUL.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/13/02 10:03:01 PM, blali@... writes:

<< Well, speaking of bedtimes etc,....here I sit at midnight with my 19 month
old daughter in the next room watching tv, because 1 1/2 hrs ago she was
crying that she didn't want to go to sleep but wanted to go downstairs. After
20 min of trying to get her to relax I gave up...I can't force the child to
sleep! Apparently she is going through some sort of developmental stage and
she will be fine with 2-3 hours less sleep tonight than normal---or she'll
sleep in tommorrow. >>

When Kirby was little he would wake up sometimes at midnight or 2:00 a.m. and
be TRULY and really awake. There were many times that I put him in a high
chair with dry cheerios and a cup of juice or other toddler-food, and put on
a video (my sister had made us a couple of six-hour videos, with Disney
movies and Winnie the Pooh and stuff). I told him to call me if he needed
me. My bed was thirty feet from there. I'd get up at 6:00 or 7:00 and find
him asleep in the chair. So I started putting blankets around him for
pillows.

When he was older and I wasn't worried about him running around, I'd just
make him a bed on the couch when he woke up from his own bed thinking it was
time to be awake.

He still can thrive on very little sleep. So can I. Others in our family,
not so well.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/14/02 9:13:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

<<
But as building materials, the miniature marshmallows and little flat
toothpicks are WONDERFUL.
>>

The kids made gingerbread houses the other day at scouts. When we
got home, they got really creative! They were sticking toothpicks in
every kind of candy, cutting and mashing and making all kinds of people,
dogs, trees, satellite dishes, you name it. Then they went on to make
these geometric figures, like connecting atoms. We left that out for
a couple of days, until the cats started eating the stuff on the floor. Didn't
want sick cats so we decided to eat/destroy the remainder.
Kathy

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/14/02 9:23:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Natrlmama@... writes:


> the miniature marshmallows and little flat
> toothpicks

Also the little marshmallows with the small straight pretzels, then its all
edible.

Heidi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/14/02 8:57:11 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:

<< Yes, I can understand that. But when someone says "we hired someone to DO
the
unschooling" it just doesn't sound right.
Perhaps, "we hired a Nanny to help us with the kids" makes more sense. >>

I agree. Unless unschooling is done and over by the time the parents get
home and weekends and vacations aren't unschooling "hours..."

BUT, on the other hand, it might not be so easy to hire a nanny or even a
babysitter who could come to understand unschooling well enough to really go
with it. So you'd have to hire someone capable of unschooling (in the sense
that unschooling involves relaxing and not "teaching").

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/14/02 10:23:39 AM, Natrlmama@... writes:

<< They were sticking toothpicks in
every kind of candy, cutting and mashing and making all kinds of people,
dogs, trees, satellite dishes, you name it. Then they went on to make
these geometric figures, like connecting atoms. We left that out for
a couple of days, until the cats started eating the stuff on the floor. Didn't
want sick cats so we decided to eat/destroy the remainder. >>

The toothpick and marshmallow structures burn BEAUTIFULLY in the fireplaces.
The marshmallows puff up and the sticks between them, in the small bit left,
turn red like a lightbulb filament and then burn out, and the marshmallows
turn black and then the skin peels kinda like the surface of lava breaking
and flowing off.

Sandra, pyro-mom