Mary Bianco

Sorry about that last one, not sure what happened. I was just wondering
about something listening to some talk about laying down with their kids. Is
that something that as a parent, you started or did your child always
request that?? Reason I'm asking is that out of 4 children, I have never
layed with one until they fell asleep or even for awhile and they never ask
me to or ever have asked to sleep with me or my husband. I'm not complaining
as I can't sleep with my kids anyway and would have a hard time laying with
all 4 every night. Of course I would imagine I would if they asked but am
glad just the same.

I was just wondering if this was coming from originally the child or the
parent. Kind of like a parent always sitting in the back of the car with the
child and then they can't sit alone at all when they get older.

Mary B





_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

keara shanahan

We have had a family bed since day one...It gels with attachment parenting, wanting to remain an attached relationship during nightime hours as well. Easier for nursing, etc. My son is 2.5 (2.75 really :) and every single day of his life I have laid with him until he fell asleep, at night and for naps. This includes the night that I was in labor with dd, during my homebirth. He woke up several times that night, and each time I went to him and laid with him during my contractions... :) The one time he called for me and I didn't respond was when I was pushing dd's head out and couldn't exactly go to him...LOL, but then he came out to witness the birth and all was fine....but i stray from the topic now...I will lay/sleep with my children until they tell me I am no longer needed. The reasoning behind attachment parenting is not that the children will be insecure if you're not around as they get older, as it might seem...it actually leads to more secure children, because they know you will always be there, so they are comfortable later on in being independent.
Keara

Mary Bianco <mummyone24@...> wrote:Sorry about that last one, not sure what happened. I was just wondering
about something listening to some talk about laying down with their kids. Is
that something that as a parent, you started or did your child always
request that?? Reason I'm asking is that out of 4 children, I have never
layed with one until they fell asleep or even for awhile and they never ask
me to or ever have asked to sleep with me or my husband. I'm not complaining
as I can't sleep with my kids anyway and would have a hard time laying with
all 4 every night. Of course I would imagine I would if they asked but am
glad just the same.

I was just wondering if this was coming from originally the child or the
parent. Kind of like a parent always sitting in the back of the car with the
child and then they can't sit alone at all when they get older.

Mary B


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

For us,

we never slept with them at all until this year. I had never really heard of attachment parenting until this last year. I know, I can hear a bunch of you saying, "how?" Well, it does happen. Especially when you don't get connected with Le Leche(sp?). I never heard of it until my second was born and then my doctor thought I should quit so I never got to a meeting, Can you believe that?

We did move into a new house this year and our bedroom is farther away from the kid's now so that might have something to do with it.

I think back and I don't think my son ever asked, because I was so tired and bedtime was bedtime, he probably didn't dare, poor guy was in his own toddler bed at 19 months. I'm trying to forgive myself for these things.

I do remember my daughter asking and I think I probably felt too overwhelmed and had never thought about saying yes. That's when my depression set in. My oldest two were 19 months apart.

My mother never laid with me. So this is very out of the ordinary for my family, (my parents and the way they raised me and my sibs). And now all are struggling with similar issues. Interesting huh?

Kelli

Mary Bianco <mummyone24@...> wrote:Sorry about that last one, not sure what happened. I was just wondering
about something listening to some talk about laying down with their kids. Is
that something that as a parent, you started or did your child always
request that?? Reason I'm asking is that out of 4 children, I have never
layed with one until they fell asleep or even for awhile and they never ask
me to or ever have asked to sleep with me or my husband. I'm not complaining
as I can't sleep with my kids anyway and would have a hard time laying with
all 4 every night. Of course I would imagine I would if they asked but am
glad just the same.

I was just wondering if this was coming from originally the child or the
parent. Kind of like a parent always sitting in the back of the car with the
child and then they can't sit alone at all when they get older.

Mary B





_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963


~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85 <[email protected]>

You make a good point. Now that I think about it, this probably is
my fault! lol When my first child was born, I read all the popular,
mainstream parenting books. One of the things that I read in some of
them was how important a bedtime routine was. I used to start by
brushing teeth and then letting her pick out 3 books. Then we would
sing a bunch of songs, pray together, and rock for awhile. I was the
one who started the routine because I read somewhere that kids needed
it and I wanted to do everything right. Now she's 9 year old and
can't go to sleepovers because I'm not there to sing to her. :(
Sheila

--- In [email protected], "Mary Bianco"
<mummyone24@h...> wrote:
> Sorry about that last one, not sure what happened. I was just
wondering
> about something listening to some talk about laying down with their
kids. Is
> that something that as a parent, you started or did your child
always
> request that?? Reason I'm asking is that out of 4 children, I have
never
> layed with one until they fell asleep or even for awhile and they
never ask
> me to or ever have asked to sleep with me or my husband. I'm not
complaining
> as I can't sleep with my kids anyway and would have a hard time
laying with
> all 4 every night. Of course I would imagine I would if they asked
but am
> glad just the same.
>
> I was just wondering if this was coming from originally the child
or the
> parent. Kind of like a parent always sitting in the back of the car
with the
> child and then they can't sit alone at all when they get older.
>
> Mary B
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

[email protected]

<< > I was just wondering if this was coming from originally the child
or the parent. >>

Good question!

-=-Now that I think about it, this probably is
my fault! lol When my first child was born, I read all the popular,
mainstream parenting books. One of the things that I read in some of
them was how important a bedtime routine was. -=-

Ah. I read that stuff and thought "Wait--that would train them only to be
able to go to sleep in their own bed."

When we had kids we were doing a lot of SCA travel, and they needed to sleep
in strange houses, in tents, in vans... But we had found even when Kirby
was little that if he was used to going to sleep where we were, he would.
And if we didn't try to make him go to sleep when he wasn't tired, he only
slept when he was sleepy. And that's easy for anyone of any age.

When others asked us, when kids were little, "What time do your kids go to
bed?" we would say "About half an hour after they go to sleep." They would
go to sleep on a couch next to us, in one of our laps, on the floor, on some
random bed... And we would put them in their own beds later.

But we did and still do have friends whose kids are almost unable to sleep
anywhere but in their own beds, at the right time. Anything out of the
routine sends them into a tizzy.

Sandra

the_clevengers <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected], "Mary Bianco"
<mummyone24@h...> wrote:
> Sorry about that last one, not sure what happened. I was just
wondering
> about something listening to some talk about laying down with their
kids. Is
> that something that as a parent, you started or did your child
always
> request that?? Reason I'm asking is that out of 4 children, I have
never
> layed with one until they fell asleep or even for awhile and they
never ask
> me to or ever have asked to sleep with me or my husband. I'm not
complaining
> as I can't sleep with my kids anyway and would have a hard time
laying with
> all 4 every night. Of course I would imagine I would if they asked
but am
> glad just the same.

For us, it was a transition from nursing to sleep to laying down with
the child to sleep. I still nurse the youngest to sleep, then I go
and lay with my son. Often he falls asleep on his own first. They
never had a crib and never slept in their own bed until they
requested it, so they never really knew any different.

> I was just wondering if this was coming from originally the child
or the
> parent. Kind of like a parent always sitting in the back of the car
with the
> child and then they can't sit alone at all when they get older.

In our case, it came from the child, in that as infants they were
nursed to sleep, then as toddlers, then (for my oldest), he still
wants me next to him to go to sleep. But he's capable of going to
sleep on his own, without me. He often does while I'm still getting
his little sister to sleep, and both of them go to sleep fine with DH
on nights that I'm out late.

I think there's a lot of fear in our culture that kids won't outgrow
things (nursing, the family bed, etc.). Like if you lay down with
them to get them to sleep, or nurse them to sleep, they'll never be
able to go to sleep on their own. I've never worried that my kids
would require me to come to their college dorm room to lay down with
them so they can get to sleep :-). It's a fleeting time in their life
when they want or need a parent so intensely. For some kids, they
grow into independence much sooner (my daughter, for instance, can
easily go to sleep without me at 3, my son never could do that until
almost 6) But all kids will grow into independence when they're ready
for it. They grew out of the family bed when they were ready, as well.

And, for the record, I also sat in the back with my son in the car,
and I don't have to do that anymore either :-). He'd rather sit with
his friends than with mom these days. We went to Harry Potter a
couple of weeks ago, and he didn't even sit in the same row as me.
Sheesh, such independence. I had to have my own popcorn.

Blue Skies,

-Robin-

[email protected]

All of our children slept with us, or my dh or I would lie down with them,
throughout thier "early" childhood. Robin is right, kids do naturally
outgrow this need. Our full size bed has been crowded for years. And
we've also played musical beds a lot too.. LOL. All of our children stopped
sleeping with us by the time they were 5 or 6 ( I mean completely stopped,,
they didnt usually sleep with us EVERY night at those ages). Except for our
youngest, he's 7 and half and he still sleeps with us about half the time.
He either falls asleep in our bed, or comes to our bed in the middle of the
night. Some nights he does go to sleep in his own bed and sleep all night
in it . Some nights if it gets too crowded, we move him to his bed.
Sometimes he stays, sometimes he dont, sometimes he sleeps on a cot beside
our bed. Even my 11 yo son and 13 yo daughter will crawl in bed with me
in the morning or for nap on weekends. And my 16 yo son will sit or lie on
my bed and talk before he goes to bed. I like the that our family is
comfortable like this. It fosters intimacy and openness.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/02 12:19:01 PM, diamondair@... writes:

<< It's a fleeting time in their life
when they want or need a parent so intensely. >>

And there's lots of evidence for the idea that if they do NOT get that
intense closeness, they will still need it, and start reacting and acting
from that needy place. The more intensity they get, the sooner that time
fleets away.

Clingy kids are often those who are NOT getting enough soothing mom-time,
not those who are.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/02 1:39:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:

> My mother never laid with me

That brought back some memories for me.. I remember my Mom getting into my
bed when I was as old as 15.. I was scared for some reason, or maybe just sad
over some "teen" thing. I was not allowed to get in bed with my Mom and
Dad to sleep, ( Dads rule) so Mom would come get in my bed and lay with me
til I fell asleep or til I "felt better" She did the same thing with my 2
younger sisters. And, we would often pile in bed with her in the mornings
after Dad got up. I'm sure that is why I am so open to letting my kids sleep
with us or going to sleep in thier beds if they need us.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/02 12:34:33 PM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< Our full size bed has been crowded for years. And
we've also played musical beds a lot too.. LOL. >>

I used to say "Keith sleeps in there, and Kirby sleeps here, and Marty sleeps
there, and I sleep around."

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/02 1:45:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> When others asked us, when kids were little, "What time do your kids go to
> bed?" we would say "About half an hour after they go to sleep." They would
>
> go to sleep on a couch next to us, in one of our laps, on the floor, on
> some
> random bed... And we would put them in their own beds later.
>

Yep, been there done that plenty of times too.. Or, heck, sometimes just let
em sleep where they lay..

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/02 1:05:08 PM, grlynbl@... writes:

<< I remember my Mom getting into my
bed when I was as old as 15..... I'm sure that is why I am so open to letting
my kids sleep
with us or going to sleep in thier beds if they need us. >>

My parents wouldn't let me sleep on the couch in the room next to them if I
had had a nightmare and would have been comforted by being just in the next
ROOM.

And I'm sure that is why I am so open to letting my kids sleep with us or
going to sleep in their beds if they need me. <g>

Sandra

[email protected]

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 19:16:31 -0000 "the_clevengers
<diamondair@...>"
> I think there's a lot of fear in our culture that kids won't outgrow
> things (nursing, the family bed, etc.). Like if you lay down with
> them to get them to sleep, or nurse them to sleep, they'll never be
> able to go to sleep on their own.

Yup. Until Rain was 4 or 5, she needed me to be physically lying next to
her to fall asleep (with my back to her and her hand full of my hair).
She was 7 or 8 before she felt comofortable sleeping away from me. The
upside was that she could fall asleep anywhere if I was there. Now she
falls asleep anywhere, goes on camping trips and sets up her own tent and
sleeps there, spends the night with lots of different people... it;s just
not an issue (although I think she still prefers to have someone near by,
or a cat, or Nana the wonderdog).

Dar

Mary Bianco

>From: SandraDodd@...

<<Ah. I read that stuff and thought "Wait--that would train them only to be
able to go to sleep in their own bed.">>


Sounds like my first born. Always went home for naptime and such and she
never was able to sleep anywhere but her crib and bed. Not in the stroller
or car seat or anywhere but home. She's almost 17 now and although she goes
away for as long as a week, she hates to sleep anywhere but her bed. She can
handle a few days, but the week was terrbiley long for her. She always
preferred to have friends over here overnight than the other way around.

When she was younger, at home she would also wake at the slightest sound. I
kept everything so quiet, she needed it like that. Thankfully she's not like
that now. I guess 3 kids that followed her helped. <BG>

With my 2nd child, when he would fall asleep, I'd lay him in his stroller
and wheel him all over the house with me and the noise and the dogs. Did
that with the next two also. Big difference in them and my oldest.

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

Kelli Traaseth

I remember crawling into my parents room, I must have been around 12 or 13, and sleeping on the ground, and then I would sneak back into my room before they got up.

I was too embarassed to let them know.



Kelli


grlynbl@... wrote:In a message dated 12/11/02 1:39:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:

> My mother never laid with me

That brought back some memories for me.. I remember my Mom getting into my
bed when I was as old as 15.. I was scared for some reason, or maybe just sad
over some "teen" thing. I was not allowed to get in bed with my Mom and
Dad to sleep, ( Dads rule) so Mom would come get in my bed and lay with me
til I fell asleep or til I "felt better" She did the same thing with my 2
younger sisters. And, we would often pile in bed with her in the mornings
after Dad got up. I'm sure that is why I am so open to letting my kids sleep
with us or going to sleep in thier beds if they need us.

Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/2002 1:18:43 PM Central Standard Time,
diamondair@... writes:

> For some kids, they
> grow into independence much sooner (my daughter, for instance, can
> easily go to sleep without me at 3, my son never could do that until
> almost 6) But all kids will grow into independence when they're ready
> for it. They grew out of the family bed when they were ready, as well.
>

I get to be around a lot of slinged babies in my homeschool support group.
They're all worn and breastfed and I hardly ever hear any of them cry. They
also can be handed around to anyone in the group, and I've seen them all
comfort themselves to sleep in the arms of whomever happens to be holding
them at the time. So different from the way I raised my first two, and the
way I was raised, and not so different from my last one. It seems like a
miracle to me, but I see that AP works and I hope to be a beacon of light for
my future DIL's.

Tuck


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/2002 2:14:57 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> My parents wouldn't let me sleep on the couch in the room next to them if I
>
> had had a nightmare and would have been comforted by being just in the next
>
> ROOM.
>
> And I'm sure that is why I am so open to letting my kids sleep with us or
> going to sleep in their beds if they need me. <g>
>

My parents actually built an addition on to their house so they could sleep
away from their kids! It was up the stairs, through a huge long living room
and around the corner from where my brother and I, the youngest two, slept.
We moved downstairs at 4 and 5. I cannot imagine sleeping more than a room
away from my two at that age! I remember when my brother ruptured and ear
drum when we were about 12, I had to go up there and open the big, thick
double doors to yell that he was in pain. And he was SCREAMING his head off.

We slept with our two from about 3 weeks. I had been getting up to nurse my
oldest and would fall asleep in the rocking chair. We all were happier in
the bed. And then my daughter came along a mere 53 weeks after he was born
and we four slept in the bed. Now, with my healing ankle (aren't you sick of
hearing about it???), it's torture for them to sleep on mats on the floor.
And it breaks my heart. We rotate beds and rooms and such, but every one
wants to be with me.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/2002 1:45:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> But we did and still do have friends whose kids are almost unable to sleep
> anywhere but in their own beds, at the right time. Anything out of the
> routine sends them into a tizzy.


Both of our boys got sheepskins as infants. Lay them down on their sheepskins
and they're O U T. Anywhere, any time. Strange places, different time zones,
without me. I guess it's the familiar smell and feel. VERY handy.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/2002 5:07:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tuckervill@... writes:
> I get to be around a lot of slinged babies in my homeschool support group.
> They're all worn and breastfed and I hardly ever hear any of them cry.
> They
> also can be handed around to anyone in the group, and I've seen them all
> comfort themselves to sleep in the arms of whomever happens to be holding
> them at the time. So different from the way I raised my first two, and the
>
> way I was raised, and not so different from my last one. It seems like a
> miracle to me, but I see that AP works and I hope to be a beacon of light
> for
> my future DIL's.
>
> Tuck
>
My children were both worn and neither of them would fall asleep in another's
arms, and neither would they "comfort themselves." They also would only
sleep if worn or while cuddled next to me and nursing. I still sleep with
them (they are 5.5 and 2.5). They have fallen asleep anywhere I am....either
held or in the sling. They will now fall asleep without me present (watching
a video or with dad), but still desire that I sleep with them....especially
convenient since littlest one still nurses through the night. Bedtime is
usually 11 or 12....works for us. We have friends from India who co-sleep
with their children (7 and 2)...seems, from what I understand, this is the
cultural norm for them.

Robin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85 <[email protected]>

So if kids can't go to sleep on their own after years of parent-
initiated bedtime rituals, is there a way to break them of the
habit? My daughter gets upset when she can't go to a sleepover
because she needs mom and her own bed.
Sheila

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> << > I was just wondering if this was coming from originally the
child
> or the parent. >>
>
> Good question!
>
> -=-Now that I think about it, this probably is
> my fault! lol When my first child was born, I read all the
popular,
> mainstream parenting books. One of the things that I read in some
of
> them was how important a bedtime routine was. -=-
>
> Ah. I read that stuff and thought "Wait--that would train them
only to be
> able to go to sleep in their own bed."
>
> When we had kids we were doing a lot of SCA travel, and they needed
to sleep
> in strange houses, in tents, in vans... But we had found even
when Kirby
> was little that if he was used to going to sleep where we were, he
would.
> And if we didn't try to make him go to sleep when he wasn't tired,
he only
> slept when he was sleepy. And that's easy for anyone of any age.
>
> When others asked us, when kids were little, "What time do your
kids go to
> bed?" we would say "About half an hour after they go to sleep."
They would
> go to sleep on a couch next to us, in one of our laps, on the
floor, on some
> random bed... And we would put them in their own beds later.
>
> But we did and still do have friends whose kids are almost unable
to sleep
> anywhere but in their own beds, at the right time. Anything out of
the
> routine sends them into a tizzy.
>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/11/02 9:28:18 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< So if kids can't go to sleep on their own after years of parent-
initiated bedtime rituals, is there a way to break them of the
habit? My daughter gets upset when she can't go to a sleepover
because she needs mom and her own bed. >>

Can they practice sleeping other places in the house, and just with kids and
not mom?

Can they "camp" in usually-public rooms?

Kathy Sullivan

Sheila,
My 10 year old needs to be home to sleep.. but goes to sleep overs all the time. Rarely do they actually sleep until the middle of the night anyway. Soooo when everyone is starting to laydown to sleep, he calls me and I pick him up. He friends all know that he would rather sleep at home and are fine with it. He still gets to go and have fun. Not a big deal.

Kathy Sullivan:
Mom to Logan 15, Andrew 10, Alexander 6 1/2, and Christopher David 14 months.
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/c/christopherdavid/
"Some people think that we put our lives on hold to raise a child, but we know that to hold a child IS life"

"To be free to learn, children must be free to dream!"

----- Original Message -----
From: kayb85 <sheran@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 10:22 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: bedtimes rituals



So if kids can't go to sleep on their own after years of parent-
initiated bedtime rituals, is there a way to break them of the
habit? My daughter gets upset when she can't go to a sleepover
because she needs mom and her own bed.
Sheila

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> << > I was just wondering if this was coming from originally the
child
> or the parent. >>
>
> Good question!
>
> -=-Now that I think about it, this probably is
> my fault! lol When my first child was born, I read all the
popular,
> mainstream parenting books. One of the things that I read in some
of
> them was how important a bedtime routine was. -=-
>
> Ah. I read that stuff and thought "Wait--that would train them
only to be
> able to go to sleep in their own bed."
>
> When we had kids we were doing a lot of SCA travel, and they needed
to sleep
> in strange houses, in tents, in vans... But we had found even
when Kirby
> was little that if he was used to going to sleep where we were, he
would.
> And if we didn't try to make him go to sleep when he wasn't tired,
he only
> slept when he was sleepy. And that's easy for anyone of any age.
>
> When others asked us, when kids were little, "What time do your
kids go to
> bed?" we would say "About half an hour after they go to sleep."
They would
> go to sleep on a couch next to us, in one of our laps, on the
floor, on some
> random bed... And we would put them in their own beds later.
>
> But we did and still do have friends whose kids are almost unable
to sleep
> anywhere but in their own beds, at the right time. Anything out of
the
> routine sends them into a tizzy.
>
> Sandra


~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85 <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/11/02 9:28:18 PM, sheran@p... writes:
>
> << So if kids can't go to sleep on their own after years of parent-
> initiated bedtime rituals, is there a way to break them of the
> habit? My daughter gets upset when she can't go to a sleepover
> because she needs mom and her own bed. >>
>
> Can they practice sleeping other places in the house, and just with
kids and
> not mom?
>
> Can they "camp" in usually-public rooms?

Those are great ideas! I'll talk to dd about them.
Sheila

susan marie

my kids love camping out in other rooms, sleeping in each other's rooms,
and so on. As for bedtimes, we tried, gave up. Sometimes I think we
learned unschooling from the kids, and not the other way around! (smart
kids, parents still deschooling... :-D

susan

On Thursday, December 12, 2002, at 12:30 AM, kayb85 <sheran@...>
wrote:

> --- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 12/11/02 9:28:18 PM, sheran@p... writes:
> >
> > << So if kids can't go to sleep  on their own after years of parent-
> > initiated bedtime rituals, is there a way to break them of the
> > habit?  My daughter gets upset when she can't go to a sleepover
> > because she needs mom and her own bed.  >>
> >
> > Can they practice sleeping other places in the house, and just with
> kids and
> > not mom?
> >
> > Can they "camp" in usually-public rooms?
>
> Those are great ideas!  I'll talk to dd about them.
> Sheila
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
> an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
peace,
Susan

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead

"All we are saying is give peace a chance."
- John Lennon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

** My mother never laid with me. So this is very out of the ordinary
for my family, (my parents and the way
they raised me and my sibs). **

Same here. And in fact, my dad advised me "For God's sake, don't let
him sleep with you" when my son was a baby.

However, my mom told me that she used to wake up in the morning and find
my brother asleep leaning up against her locked bedroom door. That gave
me a big shot of empathy for my brother and helped me realize that
children want and need their parents at night.

When my son was an infant, he screamed very loudly and continuously if I
tried to lay him down on a bed while he was still awake. And within a
few seconds, the loud screaming got even louder. I don't think I ever
tried it for more than a minute or two. I think he was making it clear
he didn't want to be alone. So I would claim that having a family bed
was his idea.

Betsy

Betsy

**

We slept with our two from about 3 weeks. I had been getting up to
nurse my oldest and would fall asleep in the rocking chair. We all were
happier in the bed. And then my daughter came along a mere 53 weeks
after he was born and we four slept in the bed. Now, with my healing
ankle (aren't you sick of hearing about it???), it's torture for them to
sleep on mats on the floor. And it breaks my heart. We rotate beds and
rooms and such, but every one wants to be with me.

Elizabeth**

Hi, Elizabeth --

Well, some of us, back in high school, yearned to be popular, and now we
ARE!!! <g>

Betsy

(I suppose NONE of us ever yearned for a broken ankle. Hope you feel
better soon.)

Schuyler Waynforth <[email protected]>

I must admit that the idea that the desire to sleep as a family is
born from the parents instead of from the children seems odd to me.
When my son was born he slept with me. It is shown to lower the
risk of SIDS. In most societies the family bed is the norm.* And
the whole Ferberizing thing which was coming massively into vogue
during my pregnancy just kept me thinking about the fact that human
children who were left alone as infants in pre-historical and
historical times died due to being preyed upon or freezing to death.
So, children and their parents should have an evolved response to
stick together. I suppose that it is perfectly logical for it to be
a parental decision. In the end the real reason why I slept with
Simon as an infant and still do now (he is 5) is because I'm lazy.
I didn't want to get out of bed and go get him out of his crib. I
wanted to be able to roll over and nurse him.

The question also made me think about nursing. If I had chosen not
to nurse my children they would never have asked for it. They
wouldn't now say "Hey, I'd like to breastfeed." They wouldn't know
that it was on offer.


Schuyler
Mother of Simon (5) and Linnaea (2)


*As a footnote, I was thinking that the British, American and some
European countries eschewing of the family bed is probably due to
the wealthy wanting to have more children and handing off their
children to wet-nurses in order to increase their family numbers
(brings up pictures of Angels and Insects). Just a thought.

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/02 1:51:09 PM, dwaynf@... writes:

<< As a footnote, I was thinking that the British, American and some
European countries eschewing of the family bed is probably due to
the wealthy wanting to have more children and handing off their
children to wet-nurses in order to increase their family numbers >>

Hi, Schuyler !

There was a time, when influenza and various fevers were going around and
people had figured out what caused it (air-borne contagion), that it became
good parenting and good practice for people not to sleep where they breathed
each other's breath. Late 1800's, I think, lots of parenting advice and
health advice was for people to sleep with a window open and ALONE.

As things do, it developed other baggage and justification.

Sandra

Mary Bianco

>From: "Schuyler Waynforth <dwaynf@...>" <dwaynf@...>

<<The question also made me think about nursing. If I had chosen not
to nurse my children they would never have asked for it. They
wouldn't now say "Hey, I'd like to breastfeed." They wouldn't know
that it was on offer.>>

Exactly. And in my opinion, for the most part, those children who would
probably be better off by doing, aren't really hurt by not doing IF they get
nurturing and love from many other aspects in their parents lives.

Saying so because not any of my children have ever asked to sleep with us or
have done so, except for maybe a night of restlessness when they were still
young enough to nurse and even at that, I'm talking like maybe 3-4 hours at
the most. And I honestly don't believe that they were hurt by the lack of
that. I never slept with my parents either and although mistakes were made
in other aspects of them parenting me, I don't believe sleeping with them or
even nursing had anything to do with how I developed as a person
emotionally.

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[email protected]

In a message dated 12/12/2002 11:00:51 AM Central Standard Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:


> Hi, Elizabeth --
>
> Well, some of us, back in high school, yearned to be popular, and now we
> ARE!!! <g>
>
> Betsy
>
> (I suppose NONE of us ever yearned for a broken ankle. Hope you feel
> better soon.)
>
>

I love being popular now! And I feel really great today, had my physical
therapy, went out and drove to it alone, rode and exercise bike. Lots of fun
stuff.

But my poor three year old daughter, who has never ever had a moments
separation anxiety, cried her eyes out when I left. She didn't want to be
left with the nanny alone. Today was the last day for the nanny brigade,
too. I can go back to taking care of my own kids and my own house.

Thanks for asking, makes me feel special. ;)

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]