12 yo "decompression"??
the Van Rijn family
> << My 12 yo son and I will start homeschooling [unschooling?deschooling?]
> right after Thanksgiving. What should I do or provide for him >>Yes, but what *is* "decompression" and how would I know if/when he's "over"
>
> I think you should not make him go anymore. Why go between now and
> Thanksgiving?
>
> He'll need another extra month of decompression to get over that.
>
it? And I appreciate the links on video games, but I still just don't
understand. Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he pleases for
a month? six months? DH would have a cow. He's very supportive about
homeschooling, but not 8 hours of nintendo or TV a day. Please, more from
you seasoned types. I'm beginning to get a fairly good idea of what not to
do, but... how does one put this unschooling into practice?
> <<And I especially want to understand what you all think about TVback
> and Nintendo.>>
>
> <<I think he definitely would do this all day if left to his
> own choices.>>
>
> I would tell you how many others have said that before you and then come
> and said "Oh! I was so wrong! Thanks!" But I lost count years ago.need
>
> Here's something on video games. Lots on video games and homeschooling:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/games/page
>
> I hope someone will give you a link to some of the TV discussions at
> www.unschooling.com
> and I hope you and your son have TONS of fun together, getting over what's
> already been done. I used to teach 7th grade. I know those boys don't
> that.
>
> Sandra
>
> also maybe look at sandradodd.com/unschooling
[email protected]
On Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:23:10 -0800 "the Van Rijn family"
<vanrijns@...> writes:
That's what we do. Taking into account, of course, the needs of the other
family members, but that's not generally much of a problem for us, and
how much Rain watches TV or plays computer games is only a problem for me
if I want to use the computer or watch a different show... and we work
that out.
In the beginning, while they're decompressing, it seems that kids often
do whatever they did to try to relax when they were in school for lots
and lots of hours... it almost seems like they're making up for all the
time they needed it and couldn't do it. I have a friend who is 15 and
started unschooling at 13, and she's just recently started to spend time
exploring some old and new passions (photography, beading). Before that
she chatted on email a lot, and had that sort of antsy-unhappy feeling,
like she wanted to do something but didn't know what she was supposed to
do, and it made her nervous.
Today, Rain performed in a community thetater production of Carousel and
a homeschool group play about the Gold Rush. She was so tired afterwards
(we've been getting home after 1 every morning for a week because of
Carousel) that she fell asleep in the car and then slept for a couple
more hours in my bed. Then she woke up and watched the end of The
Practice with me, and now she's listening to a Jim Weiss tape of King
Arthur while she fixes the playmobil setup that her cat knocked over this
morning. She also spend quite a while snuggling with me and petting our
new dog (who seems to be getting more comfortable with us, and appeared
to be glad we decided to spend an evening at home for a change).
It's not been a typical day, but then I don't think we actually have any
typical days. She did absolutely no reading, writing, or math, as far as
I know (except for things like counting beats in the music for the dance
she did, and I think she played some card game in the dressing room with
a couple of other girls).
Dar
<vanrijns@...> writes:
> Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he pleases forThe rest of his life. Honest.
> a month? six months?
That's what we do. Taking into account, of course, the needs of the other
family members, but that's not generally much of a problem for us, and
how much Rain watches TV or plays computer games is only a problem for me
if I want to use the computer or watch a different show... and we work
that out.
In the beginning, while they're decompressing, it seems that kids often
do whatever they did to try to relax when they were in school for lots
and lots of hours... it almost seems like they're making up for all the
time they needed it and couldn't do it. I have a friend who is 15 and
started unschooling at 13, and she's just recently started to spend time
exploring some old and new passions (photography, beading). Before that
she chatted on email a lot, and had that sort of antsy-unhappy feeling,
like she wanted to do something but didn't know what she was supposed to
do, and it made her nervous.
Today, Rain performed in a community thetater production of Carousel and
a homeschool group play about the Gold Rush. She was so tired afterwards
(we've been getting home after 1 every morning for a week because of
Carousel) that she fell asleep in the car and then slept for a couple
more hours in my bed. Then she woke up and watched the end of The
Practice with me, and now she's listening to a Jim Weiss tape of King
Arthur while she fixes the playmobil setup that her cat knocked over this
morning. She also spend quite a while snuggling with me and petting our
new dog (who seems to be getting more comfortable with us, and appeared
to be glad we decided to spend an evening at home for a change).
It's not been a typical day, but then I don't think we actually have any
typical days. She did absolutely no reading, writing, or math, as far as
I know (except for things like counting beats in the music for the dance
she did, and I think she played some card game in the dressing room with
a couple of other girls).
Dar
Fetteroll
on 11/11/02 1:23 AM, the Van Rijn family at vanrijns@... wrote:
academic things that will ease your and your husband's fears that he's not
going to be prepared for life.
for what unschooling is rather than what it isn't. You're filtering
unschooling through what you are certain learning looks like and unschooling
will come up short.
It's sort of like having always eaten at restaurants all your life and then
someone telling you about the concept of cooking for yourself. At first
you'd see only the things you can't have: You mean no one will provide me
with a list of dinners to choose from? You mean no one will bring it to my
table? You mean I'd have to figure out what stuff goes into a dinner on the
menu and figure out how to make it look and taste like what a waiter would
bring me?
Unschooling is a great deal more than academic learning. Unschooling gives
kids the freedom to explore who they are, and find the things they love.
Right now, though, he needs time to recover from being told what, when and
how to do what others say is important. He needs to rediscover and trust
what he thinks is important. But he needs to recover first.
Family Members (or something like that). There are many discussions of
reluctant husbands.
But of course you need to figure out what unschooling is yourself ;-) You
can help him along as you're exploring by sending him posts and articles
that really strike you.
Joyce
> Yes, but what *is* "decompression" and how would I know if/when he's "over"I think you're looking for a date when you can expect to see him doing
> it?
academic things that will ease your and your husband's fears that he's not
going to be prepared for life.
> And I appreciate the links on video games, but I still just don'tYes. But read the message boards at Unschooling.com so you can get a feel
> understand. Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he pleases for
> a month? six months?
for what unschooling is rather than what it isn't. You're filtering
unschooling through what you are certain learning looks like and unschooling
will come up short.
It's sort of like having always eaten at restaurants all your life and then
someone telling you about the concept of cooking for yourself. At first
you'd see only the things you can't have: You mean no one will provide me
with a list of dinners to choose from? You mean no one will bring it to my
table? You mean I'd have to figure out what stuff goes into a dinner on the
menu and figure out how to make it look and taste like what a waiter would
bring me?
Unschooling is a great deal more than academic learning. Unschooling gives
kids the freedom to explore who they are, and find the things they love.
Right now, though, he needs time to recover from being told what, when and
how to do what others say is important. He needs to rediscover and trust
what he thinks is important. But he needs to recover first.
> DH would have a cow. He's very supportive aboutThere's a folder on the message boards at Unschooling.com for Reluctant
> homeschooling, but not 8 hours of nintendo or TV a day. Please, more from
> you seasoned types. I'm beginning to get a fairly good idea of what not to
> do, but... how does one put this unschooling into practice?
Family Members (or something like that). There are many discussions of
reluctant husbands.
But of course you need to figure out what unschooling is yourself ;-) You
can help him along as you're exploring by sending him posts and articles
that really strike you.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/11/02 12:00:07 AM, vanrijns@... writes:
<< Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he pleases for
a month? six months? DH would have a cow. >>
IF unschooling is going to work for you, both you and your husband will have
to change your perceptions about what learning looks like.
go to
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
and then
http://sandradodd.com/articles
and click on whichever one is "temporary checklists."
Sandra
<< Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he pleases for
a month? six months? DH would have a cow. >>
IF unschooling is going to work for you, both you and your husband will have
to change your perceptions about what learning looks like.
go to
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
and then
http://sandradodd.com/articles
and click on whichever one is "temporary checklists."
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/11/02 12:38:15 AM, freeform@... writes:
<< It's not been a typical day, but then I don't think we actually have any
typical days. She did absolutely no reading, writing, or math, as far as
I know (except for things like counting beats in the music for the dance
she did, and I think she played some card game in the dressing room with
a couple of other girls). >>
And you WOULD have let her watch TV or play video games instead of being in a
full-blown musical theatre production AND a play in the same season, right?
These were the free choices of a twelve year old?
Without free choices, children cannot make free choices.
I can't say it any plainer than that, vanrijns@...
Sandra
<< It's not been a typical day, but then I don't think we actually have any
typical days. She did absolutely no reading, writing, or math, as far as
I know (except for things like counting beats in the music for the dance
she did, and I think she played some card game in the dressing room with
a couple of other girls). >>
And you WOULD have let her watch TV or play video games instead of being in a
full-blown musical theatre production AND a play in the same season, right?
These were the free choices of a twelve year old?
Without free choices, children cannot make free choices.
I can't say it any plainer than that, vanrijns@...
Sandra
Myranda
The easiest way I've found to explain it is that you should just treat your son like any other adult member of the family - no rules, limits, or should do's. You don't have to have these things to do what needs to be done, and your son won't either.
You sometimes spend a day or two working on one thing mostly, don't you? A craft, reading, or a hobby. Your son will be the same way, but it will take him longer to get used to having the freedom to do whatever he chooses, so he will likely spend weeks instead of days doing something at first. I compare it to getting a new bread machine - for a week or two, you make bread every single day, try out the new recipies, and enjoy it. Then, you put it in a cabinet, and only make bread when you really get to wanting some. TV/video games will be the same way for your son. Once he gets over that "new" freedom to watch/play whenever he wants, he'll get to where he only does it when he needs or wants something from it. If he chooses to keep playing games after that period, then he's getting something he needs from the games. I explained it to my DH this way - what do you most want, to control your kids or to teach them self-control and self-motivation and self-confidence? IMO, a year of letting your child just "be" and learn himself is worth far more than any year of learning at any school you can find. After that, things will smooth out as he learns things about himself, and the learning will never stop, for the rest of his lifetime. Unlike the school mentality that learning stops after the age of 18, or 22.
Myranda
From: the Van Rijn family
Yes, but what *is* "decompression" and how would I know if/when he's "over"
it? And I appreciate the links on video games, but I still just don't
understand. Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he pleases for
a month? six months? DH would have a cow. He's very supportive about
homeschooling, but not 8 hours of nintendo or TV a day. Please, more from
you seasoned types. I'm beginning to get a fairly good idea of what not to
do, but... how does one put this unschooling into practice?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You sometimes spend a day or two working on one thing mostly, don't you? A craft, reading, or a hobby. Your son will be the same way, but it will take him longer to get used to having the freedom to do whatever he chooses, so he will likely spend weeks instead of days doing something at first. I compare it to getting a new bread machine - for a week or two, you make bread every single day, try out the new recipies, and enjoy it. Then, you put it in a cabinet, and only make bread when you really get to wanting some. TV/video games will be the same way for your son. Once he gets over that "new" freedom to watch/play whenever he wants, he'll get to where he only does it when he needs or wants something from it. If he chooses to keep playing games after that period, then he's getting something he needs from the games. I explained it to my DH this way - what do you most want, to control your kids or to teach them self-control and self-motivation and self-confidence? IMO, a year of letting your child just "be" and learn himself is worth far more than any year of learning at any school you can find. After that, things will smooth out as he learns things about himself, and the learning will never stop, for the rest of his lifetime. Unlike the school mentality that learning stops after the age of 18, or 22.
Myranda
From: the Van Rijn family
Yes, but what *is* "decompression" and how would I know if/when he's "over"
it? And I appreciate the links on video games, but I still just don't
understand. Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he pleases for
a month? six months? DH would have a cow. He's very supportive about
homeschooling, but not 8 hours of nintendo or TV a day. Please, more from
you seasoned types. I'm beginning to get a fairly good idea of what not to
do, but... how does one put this unschooling into practice?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
susan marie
Hi Friends,
a couple of thoughts:
I love the cooking analogy! :-)
a couple of thoughts:
I love the cooking analogy! :-)
On Monday, November 11, 2002, at 07:00 AM, Fetteroll wrote:
> It's sort of like having always eaten at restaurants all your life and
> then
> someone telling you about the concept of cooking for yourself. At first
> you'd see only the things you can't have: You mean no one will provide
> me
> with a list of dinners to choose from? You mean no one will bring it to
> my
> table? You mean I'd have to figure out what stuff goes into a dinner on
> the
> menu and figure out how to make it look and taste like what a waiter
> would
> bring me?
>
To illustrate this point, about discovering what they love and pursuing
it, 12 yo dd was in a community theatre production of the Wizard of Oz
last weekend. I was a backstage mother (munchkin mama :-) and I asked
some of the kids what their favorite subject was. I had trouble getting
answers beyond "recess" and "lunch". When dd was getting her makeup put
on, the adult who was doing it asked her what her favorite subjects
were. She replied "fine arts and science". She said he was so startled
by her response, he didn't say anything else. She was rather perplexed
as to his response. While I have a science background, my interests were
always in sports and outdoors and I was an athlete and coach. Hubby was
sports too, and was a sports journalist for awhile. The fine arts
interest is all hers, and she pursues it with a passion. Something she
wouldn't get in middle school much, and would only have time to pursue
part-time, when it fit in if she went to school. When she has late play
rehearsals, she sleeps late. The school kids were exhausted by the end
of the play. She knows so much science - her interests include mammals
and ecology - and we don't do any formal science at all. She picks it up
on her own - books, television, websites, outdoors, projects, local
environmental organizations - in other words, real life - the same way
you or I would learn about or get involved in something that interested
us.
> Unschooling is a great deal more than academic learning. Unschooling
> gives
> kids the freedom to explore who they are, and find the things they love.
> Right now, though, he needs time to recover from being told what, when
> and
> how to do what others say is important. He needs to rediscover and trust
> what he thinks is important. But he needs to recover first.
>
Doesn't everyone need to discover and trust what they think is
important? What a great gift to be allowed to do this as a young person,
in an environment of safety and love.
peace,
Susan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
Here's another nice article about decompression. It's written by Cafi
Cohen who specializes in teen homeschooling issues.
http://www.homeschoolnewslink.com/articles/vol6iss2/decompressionfaq.html
If your husband is opposed to unschooling and only supports school at
home you might want to read sections of the unschooling.com message
boards about reluctant husbands. Decompressing won't make your son
suddenly prefer worksheets to games.
Betsy
**Yes, but what *is* "decompression" and how would I know if/when he's
"over" it? And I appreciate the links on video games, but I still just
don't understand. Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he
pleases for a month? six months? DH would have a cow. He's very
supportive about homeschooling, but not 8 hours of nintendo or TV a day.
Please, more from you seasoned types. I'm beginning to get a fairly
good idea of what not to do, but... how does one put this unschooling
into practice?**
Cohen who specializes in teen homeschooling issues.
http://www.homeschoolnewslink.com/articles/vol6iss2/decompressionfaq.html
If your husband is opposed to unschooling and only supports school at
home you might want to read sections of the unschooling.com message
boards about reluctant husbands. Decompressing won't make your son
suddenly prefer worksheets to games.
Betsy
**Yes, but what *is* "decompression" and how would I know if/when he's
"over" it? And I appreciate the links on video games, but I still just
don't understand. Are you saying I should just let him do whatever he
pleases for a month? six months? DH would have a cow. He's very
supportive about homeschooling, but not 8 hours of nintendo or TV a day.
Please, more from you seasoned types. I'm beginning to get a fairly
good idea of what not to do, but... how does one put this unschooling
into practice?**
Betsy
**I love the cooking analogy! :-) **
Me, too! And it explains my frustration sometimes when brand new
homeschoolers join the group and start snapping their fingers and
wanting me (or others) to be their waiter and their short-order cook.
Betsy
Me, too! And it explains my frustration sometimes when brand new
homeschoolers join the group and start snapping their fingers and
wanting me (or others) to be their waiter and their short-order cook.
Betsy
Cathy Ruehlman
> And you WOULD have let her watch TV or play video games instead of beingin a
> full-blown musical theatre production AND a play in the same season,right?
> These were the free choices of a twelve year old?Unschooling makes so much sense to me, but
I've gotten so frustrated at times that I've started
to control *some* things like:
the tv, bedtime, and sugar.
I have two daughters ages 5 and 8
(also a baby boy 6 months).
I'll just use tv as an example.
My 5 yr old wanted to watch alot of tv
(I know it's subjective, but it was hard
watching her watch so long. After watching,
(sometimes during) she would be aggressive
towards her sister, and demanding to me for
"MORE FOOD!" We had lots of trouble
getting out of the house to take my older daughter
to gymnastics etc. Sometimes I really needed to
get out of the house to meet with friends, but she
didn't want to leave. She isn't in a place to compromise,
believe me I tried. About 8 months ago, we just
unplugged it, and said it didn't work.
Things aren't so crazy around here anymore,
but I do feel cohersive, and would like to
try the tv again. Any suggestions?
Cathy
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/19/02 9:37:15 AM, ruehlman@... writes:
<< I've gotten so frustrated at times that I've started
to control *some* things like:
the tv, bedtime, and sugar. >>
It's got to start somewhere.
Or it's got to stop.
<<About 8 months ago, we just
unplugged it, and said it didn't work.
Things aren't so crazy around here anymore,>>
Except for the lying.
Lying to a child is teaching a child to lie.
Twenty hours of television isn't as bad as a lie.
-=-would like to
try the tv again. Any suggestions?
=-
I think go to www.unschooling.com, into the message boards, down to the
bottom box which has a search function of some sort, and put in TV and read
what people have already tried that worked really well. You could read for a
couple of hours and have your life changed for the better.
Sandra
<< I've gotten so frustrated at times that I've started
to control *some* things like:
the tv, bedtime, and sugar. >>
It's got to start somewhere.
Or it's got to stop.
<<About 8 months ago, we just
unplugged it, and said it didn't work.
Things aren't so crazy around here anymore,>>
Except for the lying.
Lying to a child is teaching a child to lie.
Twenty hours of television isn't as bad as a lie.
-=-would like to
try the tv again. Any suggestions?
=-
I think go to www.unschooling.com, into the message boards, down to the
bottom box which has a search function of some sort, and put in TV and read
what people have already tried that worked really well. You could read for a
couple of hours and have your life changed for the better.
Sandra