Dalene and Andy

>>Okay, now I'm wondering about the whole sex talk and what to say and when to
say it.

I think it relies entirely on the child. As I have said before, my five year old, shows absolutely no interest, introducing sex to him would be like introducing algebra to him.

Whereas my sister and I talked about my nine year old niece the other day, and we thought it is time to start talking about these issues. And maybe watching a mild movie together would be an excellent ice breaker. I do think children at this age, is at risk for abuse, if they do not have sufficient information. Especially if they have older friends.

Dalene

PS I changed the word sex in the subject line because subject containing these words, don't download. Not sure how this one got passed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**Whereas my sister and I talked about my nine year old niece the other
day, and we thought it is time to start talking about these issues. And
maybe watching a mild movie together would be an excellent ice breaker.
I do think children at this age, is at risk for abuse, if they do not
have sufficient information. Especially if they have older friends.**

I've been watching That 70's Show reruns lately. I think for a 12 or 13
year old, this show is pretty good for introducing relationship issues,
including the sexual part of relationships. It shows, in a pretty
detailed way, what both the boy and the girl in the relationship might
be feeling. Although my 8 year old watches sometimes, it's not what I
would pick as a jumping off point for introducing the topics to a 9 year old.

Betsy

PS (I liked the movie The Wedding Planner, because the "cute couple"
decided NOT to dump their partners to instantly get it on with each
other. They waited until their other relationships ended before they
went after each other.)

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/27/02 2:25:42 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< I've been watching That 70's Show reruns lately. I think for a 12 or 13
year old, this show is pretty good for introducing relationship issues, >>

It's not that old.

I think it came on after we moved, so less than five years old?

Holly was just complaining about Bart Simson always being ten. That she
doesn't mind, but she was watching Halloween specials, and since she keeps
track of all the things she has ever worn at Halloween by how old she is, she
thinks its unfair for Bart to have different costumes every year, yet still
be ten.

It's like a time travel problem. A time-treading-water problem.

Sandra

Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry

<<I think it relies entirely on the child. As I have said before, my five year old, shows absolutely no interest, introducing sex to him would be like introducing algebra to him.

<<Whereas my sister and I talked about my nine year old niece the other day, and we thought it is time to start talking about these issues.

Personally I think 9 is *way* too late to start talking with our children about sex! And the idea, so prevalent in our society, that sexuality can be covered in a "talk" when the child reaches adolesence really saddens me, as i see this learning as a process that ideally ripens throughout many years. At adolesence, very few children are going to suddenly be open to discussing sex with parents who have never talked openly about it all along! Even children for whom sexuality was an open topic may suddenly become private about these things at this age, as they get to know their new bodies and find their own place with it.

We are all sexual beings, from birth, and sex and sexuality are a big part of life--without sex, not a single one of us would be alive--how important is that?! I've begun talking about sexuality with my children since they were just talking, first naming body parts, then talking about reproduction (animals, humans, plants) as things arose, on to specifics and values. I share my values about sex along with other values about food, relationships, the environment, how i want to spend my money--these are valuable life skills, folks, why keep them secret?!

And i don't only wait to be asked, though i definitely don't push it either. But this is a society where healthy sexuality is kept *very hidden* (no wonder some kids don't ask!) and exploitive sex is advertised everywhere, so I feel a strong need to speak out and not perpetuate the shameful silence and imbalance, even when it means stretching my own growth.

I think this shame and silence around sexuality is particularly, though not exclusively, North American. In Europe, the energy around sex and bodies in general is much more relaxed. In Sweden for example, teens are very sexually active, very often in their own homes without secrecy, and (surprise--not!) teen preganncy rates, STD's etc are *much* lower than in the US.

My folks are German, and though they were both modest and religious, I grew up knowing where babies come from and it was clear to me throughout my childhood that their sexual relationship was natural, affectionate and satisfying. My parents were shocked when parents lobbied to have me expelled in grade 2 for explaining to their children just how our teacher got that big belly and that there was a baby in there. My quiet-spoken mom went in and told them that if their children didn't know yet where babies come from, it was about time they knew! Luckily (unluckily?) my teacher agreed--she read us a book about babies in bellies and I wasn't expelled.

I felt comfortable showering with my dad till I was about 9, saw many of my older relatives dressing without embarrassment, and but for a brief period from about 11-13, have always felt comfortable with nudity (though I don't like it when it's exploitive).

I had a very full and satisfying active sexual life during my teenage years from about 14 on, always protected and usually, though not always, with committed partners. I matured early and was certainly looking for love, but not neccessarily in the wrong places and i don't believe this is/was pathological or unhealthy for me--quite the opposite! I'm convinced it has played an important part of my maturing sexuality and me growing into a healthy adult (well, "healthy" and "adult" are both relative :-)).

I'm very grateful that my own 17 yo son speaks to me *very* openly about sexual issues when he has concerns (though only on his initiative now) and I know that this would never be the case had I just decided to broach the topic when he was approaching puberty. I'm also sure that being open with him and to him in general is a big part of the picture. It's not always easy but always worth it. Once recently he was asking me about something I felt a little uncomfortable answering and i answered the best i could and then suggested he ask his friends what they thought and he looked at me incredulous and said "why would i ask them if i could ask my parents??" Oh, yeah, duh!

See http://www.violence.de/prescott/bulletin/article.html for an interesting viewpoint on the connection bewtween violence and the repression of sexuality, especially in teens.

A good place to start if talking about sex with your kids seems difficult is the Canadian book "Speaking of Sex" by Meg Hickley--she covers all ages and what children might want to know.

warmly,
ingrid


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

On 30 Oct 02, at 0:56, Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry wrote:

> <<I think it relies entirely on the child. As I have said before, my
> five year old, shows absolutely no interest, introducing sex to him
> would be like introducing algebra to him.
>
> <<Whereas my sister and I talked about my nine year old niece the
> other day, and we thought it is time to start talking about these
> issues.
>
> Personally I think 9 is *way* too late to start talking with our
> children about sex! And the idea, so prevalent in our society, that
> sexuality can be covered in a "talk" when the child reaches adolesence
> really saddens me, as i see this learning as a process that ideally
> ripens throughout many years. At adolesence, very few children are
> going to suddenly be open to discussing sex with parents who have
> never talked openly about it all along! Even children for whom
> sexuality was an open topic may suddenly become private about these
> things at this age, as they get to know their new bodies and find
> their own place with it.

9 year olds are still 4 years off adolescence!
We just answered the questions as they arose. When my daughter
at 4 asked where babies came from 'mummy's tummy' was the
answer she needed at that age. Since then the questions have
become more detailed and we have answered each truthfully as it
arose. She has a book on growing up but at the moment she
thinks its disgusting. We have gay friends so she knows same sex
partnerships happen. She's watched babies being born.
Come to think of it, learning about sex is happening in an
unschooling fashion.
>
> We are all sexual beings, from birth, and sex and sexuality are a big
> part of life--without sex, not a single one of us would be alive--how
> important is that?! I've begun talking about sexuality with my
> children since they were just talking, first naming body parts, then
> talking about reproduction (animals, humans, plants) as things arose,
> on to specifics and values. I share my values about sex along with
> other values about food, relationships, the environment, how i want to
> spend my money--these are valuable life skills, folks, why keep them
> secret?!

Sounds good. Pretty much what I do although I always express
that other people's values may be different and I explain why. She
also wanted to know why adults set laws about children's bodies.
This led to a complicated discusiion about 'for your own good and
safety' which I can't really answer to her satisfaction yet.

>
> And i don't only wait to be asked, though i definitely don't push it
> either. But this is a society where healthy sexuality is kept *very
> hidden* (no wonder some kids don't ask!) and exploitive sex is
> advertised everywhere, so I feel a strong need to speak out and not
> perpetuate the shameful silence and imbalance, even when it means
> stretching my own growth.

So true. My daughter is disgusted with exploitative images and
wants to know why my generation allowed them and allowed the
restriction of beauty to mutilate women's bodies.
Ummm.....

>
> My folks are German, and though they were both modest and religious, I
> grew up knowing where babies come from and it was clear to me
> throughout my childhood that their sexual relationship was natural,
> affectionate and satisfying. My parents were shocked when parents
> lobbied to have me expelled in grade 2 for explaining to their
> children just how our teacher got that big belly and that there was a
> baby in there. My quiet-spoken mom went in and told them that if their
> children didn't know yet where babies come from, it was about time
> they knew! Luckily (unluckily?) my teacher agreed--she read us a book
> about babies in bellies and I wasn't expelled.

That Christian puritan attitude really really bugs me.


>
> I'm very grateful that my own 17 yo son speaks to me *very* openly
> about sexual issues when he has concerns (though only on his
> initiative now) and I know that this would never be the case had I
> just decided to broach the topic when he was approaching puberty. I'm
> also sure that being open with him and to him in general is a big part
> of the picture. It's not always easy but always worth it. Once
> recently he was asking me about something I felt a little
> uncomfortable answering and i answered the best i could and then
> suggested he ask his friends what they thought and he looked at me
> incredulous and said "why would i ask them if i could ask my
> parents??" Oh, yeah, duh!

What a wonderful email.
Thanks Ingrid.

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

[email protected]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:55:01 -0500 "Shyrley"
<shyrley.williams@...> writes:
> 9 year olds are still 4 years off adolescence!

Rain is in a pre-teen and teen group of homeschoolers for ages 9 and up.
It's interesting to see the variety of nines. Some have no desire to join
the group, they're clearly all-kid still - their bodies and minds are
just not doing the teen thing yet.Others, like Rain, started physically
developing a year or two ago and seem a lot more "teen". Most people
assume she's at least two years older than she is... which isn't good or
bad, necessarily, but it means being aware of certain things earlier than
I might have otherwise.

> We just answered the questions as they arose. When my daughter
> at 4 asked where babies came from 'mummy's tummy' was the
> answer she needed at that age.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with "mom's tummy" as an answer, because it's not
actually true. Tummies are for food and they're connected to your mouth
and your anus, uteruses are for babies and they're connected to your
vagina.

Dar

Mary Bianco

>From: "Shyrley" <shyrley.williams@...> it.

<<9 year olds are still 4 years off adolescence!>>



I'm just wondering if this was said as in a 'you still have plenty of time'
kind of way. That's the way I took it and it may not be a good thought. 9
for some girls is not 4 years away from adolescents. For some girls, 9 is
the start of it.

Mary B

_________________________________________________________________
Get faster connections�-- switch to�MSN Internet Access!
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Mary Bianco

>From: freeform@...

<<Rain is in a pre-teen and teen group of homeschoolers for ages 9 and up.
It's interesting to see the variety of nines. Some have no desire to join
the group, they're clearly all-kid still - their bodies and minds are just
not doing the teen thing yet.Others, like Rain, started physically
developing a year or two ago and seem a lot more "teen". Most people assume
she's at least two years older than she is... which isn't good or bad,
necessarily, but it means being aware of certain things earlier than I might
have otherwise.>>


My Tara was like this, although I don't quite think she started at 9. But I
do remember her being 14 and looking easily 18. She has actually been taken
for 21 now at 16. It was uncomfortable for her at first because of the
attention she was getting from "old guys." For her that was anyone not 16 or
under when she was 14. But she learned fast enough when I told her to just
say something. It got to where we would be out and she would be away from me
in a store and somone like 19 or 20 would hit on her and she would look at
them almost disgusted and say, "I'm 14!!" They would apologize and slink
away. Of course there have always been the 40 year old guys who don't care.
She totally gets sick with them.

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

[email protected]

Shyrley says **9 year olds are still 4 years off adolescence!**

Adolescence isn't an age, it's a state. Some kids are going to hit it WAY
before others.

My 10 year old will be menstruating within a year. Some 10 year olds already
are. By the time they're starting to develop, if you haven't already been
talking about sex they're quite likely to be embarassed by it all, AND
they're distracted by their personal development issues some and can miss
"hearing" a lot of what you're hoping to tell them.

...But then Shyrley goes on to say that she really wasn't advocating not
talking till some time later, but talking as things come up... whew. :) **
Come to think of it, learning about sex is happening in an unschooling
fashion.**

Deborah in IL
mom of one 10yo almost adolescent and one 10yo not even close to adolescent,
among others.... <g>

Robyn Coburn

<<I'm a bit uncomfortable with "mom's tummy" as an answer, because it's
not
actually true. Tummies are for food>>

I agree. I always say "belly" to make that distinction.

Robyn Coburn

Shyrley

On 30 Oct 02, at 17:25, Mary Bianco wrote:

> >From: "Shyrley" <shyrley.williams@...> it.
>
> <<9 year olds are still 4 years off adolescence!>>
>
>
>
> I'm just wondering if this was said as in a 'you still have plenty of
> time' kind of way. That's the way I took it and it may not be a good
> thought. 9 for some girls is not 4 years away from adolescents. For
> some girls, 9 is the start of it.
>
> Mary B
>
Nah, it was an observation. After I posted it I realised it probably
isn't true of the US with its high fat, hormone laden milk n meat
diet. Then I looked at daughters 10 yo old friends. Many have
breasts and some have started periods.
I find it amazing. Back in my day (which wasn't that long ago cos
I'm 34) girls did all that stuff at 13-15. Weird how its changed.

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

Peggy

BWAH!!! Love this answer, I don't think dar was thinking this kind of
precocious when she posted. ;) LP

How the are you? Halloween's tomorrow so I've been busy. Made the cutest
little pumpkins for dinner last night, cut off the tops and stuffed them with
risotto, then baked them in the oven. Very cute little individual bowls they
make. The girls really liked them. Cute, and aside from cutting off the tops
really easy.

Love,
Peggy



>From: freeform@...

<<Rain is in a pre-teen and teen group of homeschoolers for ages 9 and up.
It's interesting to see the variety of nines. Some have no desire to join
the group, they're clearly all-kid still - their bodies and minds are just
not doing the teen thing yet.Others, like Rain, started physically
developing a year or two ago and seem a lot more "teen". Most people assume
she's at least two years older than she is... which isn't good or bad,
necessarily, but it means being aware of certain things earlier than I might
have otherwise.>>


My Tara was like this, although I don't quite think she started at 9. But I
do remember her being 14 and looking easily 18. She has actually been taken
for 21 now at 16. It was uncomfortable for her at first because of the
attention she was getting from "old guys." For her that was anyone not 16 or
under when she was 14. But she learned fast enough when I told her to just
say something. It got to where we would be out and she would be away from me
in a store and somone like 19 or 20 would hit on her and she would look at
them almost disgusted and say, "I'm 14!!" They would apologize and slink
away. Of course there have always been the 40 year old guys who don't care.
She totally gets sick with them.

Mary B

Mary Bianco

>From: "Robyn Coburn" <dezigna@...>

<<I agree. I always say "belly" to make that distinction.>>




What about uterus?? That's one of the first sex lessons my kids learned.
That way the baby can have it's own womb!!!! (sorry!)

Mary B


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Deborah Lewis

***That way the baby can have it's own womb!!!! (sorry!)***

Mary! I didn't know you was a wabbit!!

Deb L

Mary Bianco

>From: "Shyrley" <shyrley.williams@...>

<<Nah, it was an observation. After I posted it I realised it probably
isn't true of the US with its high fat, hormone laden milk n meat
diet. Then I looked at daughters 10 yo old friends. Many have
breasts and some have started periods. I find it amazing. Back in my day
(which wasn't that long ago cos I'm 34) girls did all that stuff at 13-15.
Weird how its changed.>>



And I think kind of sad too. I wouldn't mind telling my 9 year old daughter
(if I had one) about menstruation and all, but to have her actually have to
deal with it, well it just seems so young.

I'm wondering if there are studies, which I'm sure there are, on the average
ages of other cultures and such. Anyone know?

Mary B

_________________________________________________________________
Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband.� Join now!
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[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/02 3:41:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dezigna@... writes:


> <<I'm a bit uncomfortable with "mom's tummy" as an answer, because it's
> not
> actually true. Tummies are for food>>
>
> I agree. I always say "belly" to make that distinction.
>
>

Why not uterus? After all, that's where it is.
Elissa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

There are studies out there... I ran across one when reading a story of a 5 yr old girl who had a fully mature reproductive system, and who gave birth to a baby boy. I have no idea where I was looking at the time, though, sorry!
Myranda

From: Mary Bianco
And I think kind of sad too. I wouldn't mind telling my 9 year old daughter
(if I had one) about menstruation and all, but to have her actually have to
deal with it, well it just seems so young.

I'm wondering if there are studies, which I'm sure there are, on the average
ages of other cultures and such. Anyone know?

Mary B

_________________________________________________________________
Get a speedy connection with MSN Broadband. Join now!
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/02 1:58:57 AM, instinct@... writes:

<< I felt comfortable showering with my dad till I was about 9, saw many of
my older relatives dressing without embarrassment, and but for a brief period
from about 11-13, have always felt comfortable with nudity (though I don't
like it when it's exploitive). >>

Holly quit showering with her dad when she was nine. She's starting to
develop, and now she dresses in private.

Marty still doesn't mind seeing me not fully dressed. He will walk in and
talk to me while I'm on the toilet. It bothers me a little, but not enough
to say anything. He's not LOOKING at me, it's just as casual as it was when
he was little.

Kirby was shy for quite a while, but lately he will walk around in just boxer
shorts and a t-shirt, looking for something or to get food or whatever, so
now I have seen his big hairy legs. For a couple of years, he'd either
dress completely or wrap a sheet around himself.

But none of them blushes and acts like such things are nasty.

Sandra

[email protected]

On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 16:13:35 -0500 "Shyrley"
<shyrley.williams@...> writes:
> Nah, it was an observation. After I posted it I realised it
> probably
> isn't true of the US with its high fat, hormone laden milk n meat
> diet. Then I looked at daughters 10 yo old friends. Many have
> breasts and some have started periods.
> I find it amazing. Back in my day (which wasn't that long ago cos
> I'm 34) girls did all that stuff at 13-15. Weird how its changed.

I thought it was a diet thing, and felt very smug about my daughter's
vegetarian, no bovine growth hormone lifestyle. She started developing
breasts at 7. A friend of mine with triplet daughters who are 13 or 14
now told me it was the same with her family, and they started their
peiods at 10 and 11.

When I was a kid (and I'm 34, too), I remember hearing that the average
was 12-13, and the prediction was that girls started, on average, 6
months younger than their mothers. I started one month before my 13th
birthday. I'm built really differently from Rain, though, I've alwas been
skinny and she's heavier.

At first I thought it was sad that she had to deal with this sort of
"stuff" when she was still a kid, but now I think that was my issue, and
whatever speed her body develops at is okay. She's not the only 9 yr old
we know who has small breasts, and I don't wnat her getting the idea that
there's sonmething sad or bad or shameful about having them. She is still
a kid much of the time - she plays with playmobil and swings on swings,
she isn't interested in boyfriends, just getting her to run a brush
through her hair before leaving the house is a trick some days. She has
the maturity to talk with and relate to older kids, but she's not
"growing up too fast", if that makes sense.

And she's looked a couple of years older than her actual age since she
was about a year and a half old and people thought she was three, so it's
nothing new for her...

Dar

Shyrley

On 30 Oct 02, at 18:44, SandraDodd@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 10/30/02 1:58:57 AM, instinct@...
> writes:
>
> << I felt comfortable showering with my dad till I was about 9, saw
> many of my older relatives dressing without embarrassment, and but for
> a brief period from about 11-13, have always felt comfortable with
> nudity (though I don't like it when it's exploitive). >>
>
> Holly quit showering with her dad when she was nine. She's starting
> to develop, and now she dresses in private.
>
All three of mine (girl 10, 2 boys 9 and 7) walk in on me when I'm
in the bath or on the toilet and have long conversations. It doesn't
bother me in the slightest but all of them wont let me or anyone
else see them nekkid. Heather will run around without a T-shirt
when its hot (she doesn't have anything yet) much to the disgust of
the Stepford residents.
Both boys are shy about their lower regions, so much so that when
one of them had something wrong he waited days to tell me. Then
plucked up courage. I was kneeling down getting onions out of a
bag and looked up to find myself face to face with his naughty bits
and him demanding 'well?'
Something I wont forget in a hurry :-)

Shyrley



"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

Shyrley

On 30 Oct 02, at 18:05, Myranda wrote:

> There are studies out there... I ran across one when reading a story
> of a 5 yr old girl who had a fully mature reproductive system, and who
> gave birth to a baby boy. I have no idea where I was looking at the
> time, though, sorry! Myranda
>
I thought the youngest preg and birth was a 10 yo. Could be wrong.

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

Myranda

I'm thinking this girl was from Russia, but I may be mistaken. She's still alive, the boy she had is dead. She's married with several more children now. If you're interested, I can ask the person who sent me the link for it again. :-)
Myranda
From: Shyrley
I thought the youngest preg and birth was a 10 yo. Could be wrong.

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/02 5:52:30 PM, shyrley.williams@... writes:

<< I was kneeling down getting onions out of a
bag and looked up to find myself face to face with his naughty bits
and him demanding 'well?' >>

There's a vision.

Once when Kirby was younger but starting to get that broad-shouldered look, I
was talking to him about "that" and somehow managed to awkwardly ask if he
was getting pubic hair yet. He said "WHY, Mom, do you want some for my baby
book?"

So I have long ago shut right up about such things.

Holly came and showed me when her breasts first started to develop. Since
the first few times I saw them, she's stayed covered up.

I would like to take my boys for checkups, but they're resistent. I'd hate
for their first post-pubescent checkup to be at an army enlistment place.
When they were little the HMO was really pushing those well-child checkups,
but anymore they don't want you to come in unless it's really serious, it
seems.

Sandra

Shyrley

On 30 Oct 02, at 20:10, SandraDodd@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 10/30/02 5:52:30 PM, shyrley.williams@...
> writes:
>
> << I was kneeling down getting onions out of a
> bag and looked up to find myself face to face with his naughty bits
> and him demanding 'well?' >>
>
> There's a vision.
>
Yup

> Once when Kirby was younger but starting to get that broad-shouldered
> look, I was talking to him about "that" and somehow managed to
> awkwardly ask if he was getting pubic hair yet. He said "WHY, Mom, do
> you want some for my baby book?"

Now that is funny.
>
> So I have long ago shut right up about such things.
>
> Holly came and showed me when her breasts first started to develop.
> Since the first few times I saw them, she's stayed covered up.
>
> I would like to take my boys for checkups, but they're resistent. I'd
> hate for their first post-pubescent checkup to be at an army
> enlistment place. When they were little the HMO was really pushing
> those well-child checkups, but anymore they don't want you to come in
> unless it's really serious, it seems.
>
> Sandra
>
My kids have never had a 'check-up'. We avoid the doc unless
they are sick which is very rare. The two boys haven't been for
years. I have been hearing about people having 'physicals' and am
not sure what they are. UK docs only see you when you are sick.
you don't go if you are well. Some docs offer well-woman clinics
but they are rarer as most can't be bothered. they don't get paid
extra for doing them!
I suppose I should change my thinking and actually use this health
insurance!!! No point paying out each month when we never go!

Shyrley

PS Your boys planning on joining the army?


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

marji

At 20:57 10/30/02 -0500, Shyrley wrote:

>My kids have never had a 'check-up'. We avoid the doc unless
>they are sick which is very rare. The two boys haven't been for
>years. I have been hearing about people having 'physicals' and am
>not sure what they are. UK docs only see you when you are sick.
>you don't go if you are well. Some docs offer well-woman clinics
>but they are rarer as most can't be bothered. they don't get paid
>extra for doing them!
>I suppose I should change my thinking and actually use this health
>insurance!!! No point paying out each month when we never go!

I always thought of those "well visits" to the doctor as fishing
expeditions for doctors. We have been so lucky to find a doctor who is not
only an anthroposophical doctor but also an M.D. So, he mostly treats
homeopathically, but when the big guns are really needed, he can prescribe
antibiotics. He's against vaccinations against childhood diseases,
although he wanted me to consider tetanus. All in all, he is a pleasure to
work with because he respects Liam and me.

Liam suddenly became really sick today. One minute he was fine, but it
seemed that the next minute he had a temperature of 103 and climbing. I
had brought him to the doctor only twice before, both times because he had
Lyme disease, so this was strange to me. The doctor felt that Liam had
gotten the flu and his one eardrum was pretty red. I came home with four
remedies, and no antibiotics. Liam is so comfortable with this guy, he
actually asked me to bring him to the doctor!

I feel so bad that Liam is going to be missing out on the cool Halloween
things we had planned to do. Such is life I guess.

Marji

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/02 6:54:14 PM, shyrley.williams@... writes:

<< PS Your boys planning on joining the army? >>

No, but the president seems to be planning on needing soldiers for a long
while to come.

Mary Bianco

>From: freeform@...

<<At first I thought it was sad that she had to deal with this sort of
"stuff" when she was still a kid, but now I think that was my issue, and
whatever speed her body develops at is okay. She's not the only 9 yr old
we know who has small breasts, and I don't wnat her getting the idea that
there's sonmething sad or bad or shameful about having them. She is still a
kid much of the time - she plays with playmobil and swings on swings, she
isn't interested in boyfriends, just getting her to run a brush through her
hair before leaving the house is a trick some days. She has the maturity to
talk with and relate to older kids, but she's not "growing up too fast", if
that makes sense.>>


Yeah, when I mentioned it was sad, I was saying it from a mom's point of
view. It's nice to know that it doesn't have to be that way and that some
kids don't see it as a problem. I know I still have a school mentality about
it too as my daughter was in school when she went through all that. I
haven't hit that period yet with an unschooler. I'm sure other school kids
can make it uncomfortable with their reactions.

Mary B


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Shyrley

On 30 Oct 02, at 21:45, SandraDodd@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 10/30/02 6:54:14 PM, shyrley.williams@...
> writes:
>
> << PS Your boys planning on joining the army? >>
>
> No, but the president seems to be planning on needing soldiers for a
> long while to come.
>

I'd best start teaching mine about concientious objectors :-)
Before they are microchipped and lobotomised.
Sometimes the future looks scary :-(

Shyrley



"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/02 6:59:14 PM Central Standard Time,
myrandab@... writes:

> I'm thinking this girl was from Russia, but I may be mistaken. She's still
> alive, the boy she had is dead. She's married with several more children
> now. If you're interested, I can ask the person who sent me the link for it
> again. :-)
> Myranda
> From: Shyrley
> I thought the youngest preg and birth was a 10 yo. Could be wrong.
>

I'm thinking that (on this list or another?) we discussed (recently) a woman
in South America who had a baby at 5. She is now much older, with kids and
grandkids, and the boy she had at 5 is now deceased.

~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/30/02 7:13:02 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> I would like to take my boys for checkups, but they're resistent. I'd hate
> for their first post-pubescent checkup to be at an army enlistment place.
> When they were little the HMO was really pushing those well-child checkups,
>
> but anymore they don't want you to come in unless it's really serious, it
> seems.
>
> Sandra
>

Call the doctors office, ask if they will accept the insurance info. from the
boys, or if you have to be right there. If you do have to be right there,
make the appointment, for both, back to back. Tell the boys it is time to go
for a regular checkup. Explain about preventive medicine. Take them, give the
office the info they need and go wait in the car or run some errands. If they
or the doctor have concerns arrange for them to talk with Dad about it. I
understand that whole *I don't want my Mom to go to the doctor with me.*
thing. Its the same with girls and their dads.

But then you probably already knew this. <g>

~Nancy


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