sex questions, was Kids and movies and books
Mary Bianco
SandraDodd@... wrote:
<<For me personally, I would rather my kids had seen casual sex scenes (not
porn, but hugging, the idea of undressing and getting in bed, not the
nastiness, but the happiness, in the course of a story) before they're
pubescent. If they get the itches and urges and have no clue THEN when they
see the scenes I think they'll have an overly charged importance. If they
see it as just a part of adult life when they're too little to care one way
or the other, it's not as powerfully alluring or exciting.>>
Okay, now I'm wondering about the whole sex talk and what to say and when to
say it. Never really thought about it before but now I am. This will kind of
be a first because Tara was raised so differently than the other 3. I also
think I handled the whole sex thing wrong with Tara too. So now I guess I'm
starting from scratch. So to help me in my thinking and wondering how to go
about things, I'm wondering how others handle the topic. Someone said that
their child made a remark about a couple on TV having noisy sex. It seems
like I remember the child being rather young. Did the child actually know
what sex was, or just given the word and responded as such? My kids haven't
asked really about anything yet but it's getting close I believe. Not really
sure how I want to handle it and I know this group will help me make my
decision.
Mary B
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<<For me personally, I would rather my kids had seen casual sex scenes (not
porn, but hugging, the idea of undressing and getting in bed, not the
nastiness, but the happiness, in the course of a story) before they're
pubescent. If they get the itches and urges and have no clue THEN when they
see the scenes I think they'll have an overly charged importance. If they
see it as just a part of adult life when they're too little to care one way
or the other, it's not as powerfully alluring or exciting.>>
Okay, now I'm wondering about the whole sex talk and what to say and when to
say it. Never really thought about it before but now I am. This will kind of
be a first because Tara was raised so differently than the other 3. I also
think I handled the whole sex thing wrong with Tara too. So now I guess I'm
starting from scratch. So to help me in my thinking and wondering how to go
about things, I'm wondering how others handle the topic. Someone said that
their child made a remark about a couple on TV having noisy sex. It seems
like I remember the child being rather young. Did the child actually know
what sex was, or just given the word and responded as such? My kids haven't
asked really about anything yet but it's getting close I believe. Not really
sure how I want to handle it and I know this group will help me make my
decision.
Mary B
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Stephanie Elms
I plan on just following Jason's lead...he's only 5.5. Our sex talk so far has been because
he asked questions while reading one of his human body books that talked about how the
man makes sperm and the woman makes and egg and when the come together it makes a baby.
We had read it several times before, this time however, I could see his mind working.
He sat there and thought and thought and then asked me how the sperm and the egg got
together. I told him and he looked at me and said basically no way and crinkled up his
nose. I told him it was true and he wouldn't believe me LOL! So we left it at that for
now. I figure that it will come up again eventually.
I plan on talking openly with the boys (especially around puberty) and following their
lead. I figure that it will probably not be just one sex talk, but a series of
talks about our bodies and sex etc as they get older. I would guess that if you
are always open about it (just like any other subject) when they need more info they
will ask.
Jason still seems pretty comfortable seeing me naked (I am still nursing his 2.5
yo brother) and comes into the bathroom etc with me.
Stephanie E.
he asked questions while reading one of his human body books that talked about how the
man makes sperm and the woman makes and egg and when the come together it makes a baby.
We had read it several times before, this time however, I could see his mind working.
He sat there and thought and thought and then asked me how the sperm and the egg got
together. I told him and he looked at me and said basically no way and crinkled up his
nose. I told him it was true and he wouldn't believe me LOL! So we left it at that for
now. I figure that it will come up again eventually.
I plan on talking openly with the boys (especially around puberty) and following their
lead. I figure that it will probably not be just one sex talk, but a series of
talks about our bodies and sex etc as they get older. I would guess that if you
are always open about it (just like any other subject) when they need more info they
will ask.
Jason still seems pretty comfortable seeing me naked (I am still nursing his 2.5
yo brother) and comes into the bathroom etc with me.
Stephanie E.
Mary Bianco
>From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...><<I told him and he looked at me and said basically no way and crinkled up
his nose. I told him it was true and he wouldn't believe me LOL! So we left
it at that for now. I figure that it will come up again eventually.>>
LOL!! That is funny and cute too. Mine haven't asked yet about anything like
that and they also have the books and even tons of animal stuff, some
showing copulation. I guess it just doesn't interest them yet. And yes the
"talk" will not be just one but should continue on for as long as they ask
or wonder. Thanks fo sharing. It helps me figure out things and reaffirm
what I think I already know. <BG>
Mary B
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Deborah Lewis
***Someone said that
their child made a remark about a couple on TV having noisy sex. It seems
like I remember the child being rather young. Did the child actually know
what sex was, or just given the word and responded as such? ***
That was my kid!
I was responding to a post about TV and the original posters child was 5
years old. I talked about what my five year old watched, etc. Dylan
was actually a little older when he saw the sex scene, maybe a year
older.
The first talk about sex came early for him, I think because we had two
friends who were pregnant and there was much baby talk going on. He
asked the inevitable - what's the baby doing in there... how'd it get in
there... How's it getting out...and I started with simple answers
thinking he didn't want or need more than that. But he kept asking, not
satisfied until it was making perfectly clear sense to him.
There wasn't just one sex talk. There were many, and sometimes he comes
up to one of us now and asks one question, kind of out of the blue, and
we answer. I don't assume he wants to know everything, I just answer what
he specifically asks. If he wants more information he lets me know. If
he hears something from one of his friends he checks it against what we
say. One thing I noticed about ps kids is they have the idea sex is
nasty. Dylan thinks of sex more like eating or sleeping or pooping, just
one more thing everybody does. He can't really imagine he'll ever be
interested even thought we've talked about body chemicals, etc. But he's
ok with things so far, and not afraid or embarrassed to ask questions.
Sex talk has to include the emotional side of things. We have talked
about this some, how people might confuse sex with fondness or love, how
people with emotional problems can be confused by their feelings about
sex, etc. But the talking doesn't happen all at once.
Deb L
their child made a remark about a couple on TV having noisy sex. It seems
like I remember the child being rather young. Did the child actually know
what sex was, or just given the word and responded as such? ***
That was my kid!
I was responding to a post about TV and the original posters child was 5
years old. I talked about what my five year old watched, etc. Dylan
was actually a little older when he saw the sex scene, maybe a year
older.
The first talk about sex came early for him, I think because we had two
friends who were pregnant and there was much baby talk going on. He
asked the inevitable - what's the baby doing in there... how'd it get in
there... How's it getting out...and I started with simple answers
thinking he didn't want or need more than that. But he kept asking, not
satisfied until it was making perfectly clear sense to him.
There wasn't just one sex talk. There were many, and sometimes he comes
up to one of us now and asks one question, kind of out of the blue, and
we answer. I don't assume he wants to know everything, I just answer what
he specifically asks. If he wants more information he lets me know. If
he hears something from one of his friends he checks it against what we
say. One thing I noticed about ps kids is they have the idea sex is
nasty. Dylan thinks of sex more like eating or sleeping or pooping, just
one more thing everybody does. He can't really imagine he'll ever be
interested even thought we've talked about body chemicals, etc. But he's
ok with things so far, and not afraid or embarrassed to ask questions.
Sex talk has to include the emotional side of things. We have talked
about this some, how people might confuse sex with fondness or love, how
people with emotional problems can be confused by their feelings about
sex, etc. But the talking doesn't happen all at once.
Deb L
Mary Bianco
>From: Deborah Lewis <ddzimlew@...><<Dylan thinks of sex more like eating or sleeping or pooping, just
one more thing everybody does.>>
I knew of a little girl who thought like that, she ended up being sexually
active at a young age. That's what is on my mind recently with all this sex
talk!
Mary B
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Deborah Lewis
***I knew of a little girl who thought like that, she ended up being
sexually
active at a young age. That's what is on my mind recently with all this
sex
talk!***
I'm not worried about this for Dylan.
The kids I remember being sexually active very early were kids who's
lives were unpleasant and unhappy.
The Catholic girl from a very cold and strict family who was having sex
by age 12 and pregnant at 15. Another whose mom was not affectionate at
all and whose father was and abusive drunk who finally left for good.
When kids are wanting love and not getting any they can confuse sex and
love.
I don't worry that Dylan will be sexually active before he's ready.
I think a lot of parents want to pick a safe age when there kids will be
sexually active but that's not how it works. The kids will decide and
I'd rather mine had all the right information before hand.
There is a lot of responsibility that goes with that type of relationship
and I think it's the kids who don't understand that, who aren't as
emotionally mature and secure who are more likely to go there early.
I've never been afraid of knowledge and information. I think it's the
lack of those things that gets people into trouble.
And I don't see any good coming from warnings and scare tactics and half
truths about sex and emotional needs. I don't think we can keep our kids
physically and emotionally safe with bad information or shaming.
Deb L
sexually
active at a young age. That's what is on my mind recently with all this
sex
talk!***
I'm not worried about this for Dylan.
The kids I remember being sexually active very early were kids who's
lives were unpleasant and unhappy.
The Catholic girl from a very cold and strict family who was having sex
by age 12 and pregnant at 15. Another whose mom was not affectionate at
all and whose father was and abusive drunk who finally left for good.
When kids are wanting love and not getting any they can confuse sex and
love.
I don't worry that Dylan will be sexually active before he's ready.
I think a lot of parents want to pick a safe age when there kids will be
sexually active but that's not how it works. The kids will decide and
I'd rather mine had all the right information before hand.
There is a lot of responsibility that goes with that type of relationship
and I think it's the kids who don't understand that, who aren't as
emotionally mature and secure who are more likely to go there early.
I've never been afraid of knowledge and information. I think it's the
lack of those things that gets people into trouble.
And I don't see any good coming from warnings and scare tactics and half
truths about sex and emotional needs. I don't think we can keep our kids
physically and emotionally safe with bad information or shaming.
Deb L
Mary Bianco
>From: Deborah Lewis <ddzimlew@...><<I've never been afraid of knowledge and information. I think it's the
lack of those things that gets people into trouble. And I don't see any good
coming from warnings and scare tactics and half truths about sex and
emotional needs. I don't think we can keep our kids physically and
emotionally safe with bad information or shaming.>>
I happen to agree pretty much with your whole post. I also think though that
parents can't make it seem like sex it something that is just like sleeping
and eating. You need to do those things from birth. Sex is a big deal, a
very big deal. Not to scare them or make them think it's dirty and taboo.
But to take it very seriously and not just think "oh it's what everyone is
doing, no big deal." I think there are the parents who try and scare the
crap out of the kids and then the other ones who just say this is what it is
physically and don't worry about the whole responsibility part of it both
physically and emotionally. I think that's just as bad. There's so much more
to it than just the what is sex part.
Mary B
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Deborah Lewis
*** Sex is a big deal, a very big deal. ***
Yes and no.<g>
There are potential partners out there for our kids who might think one
encounter means a life time commitment. Or who think sex is a tool for
bargaining or manipulation., or that sex is a solution to a problem, and
I think all young people need to be aware of that. But approached from a
healthy mind and body and with reasonable good judgement and precautions
for health and pregnancy, sex is just sex.
I don't think sex has to be with someone you love for it to be
meaningful and wonderful and I don't think it's fair to tell kids this.
They're going to find out differently anyway.
It seems a really bad idea to build sex into either some kind of sacred
shrine of love or some kind of dirty, guilty secret with no option in
between for normal people with normal desires.
Deb L, off to Tae Kwon Do
Yes and no.<g>
There are potential partners out there for our kids who might think one
encounter means a life time commitment. Or who think sex is a tool for
bargaining or manipulation., or that sex is a solution to a problem, and
I think all young people need to be aware of that. But approached from a
healthy mind and body and with reasonable good judgement and precautions
for health and pregnancy, sex is just sex.
I don't think sex has to be with someone you love for it to be
meaningful and wonderful and I don't think it's fair to tell kids this.
They're going to find out differently anyway.
It seems a really bad idea to build sex into either some kind of sacred
shrine of love or some kind of dirty, guilty secret with no option in
between for normal people with normal desires.
Deb L, off to Tae Kwon Do
Mary Bianco
>From: Deborah Lewis <ddzimlew@...><<It seems a really bad idea to build sex into either some kind of sacred
shrine of love or some kind of dirty, guilty secret with no option in
between for normal people with normal desires.>>
I agree with you again. But I still think sex is a really big deal.
Especially in this day and age. It isn't just the whole physically giving
and emotional part of it. There's a whole safety issue to it too. Not just
pregnancy but with all kind of other possibilities.
Mary B
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In a message dated 10/28/02 2:08:57 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< I also think though that
parents can't make it seem like sex it something that is just like sleeping
and eating. You need to do those things from birth. >>
There are things babies do that older humans don't. Like lie on their backs
and gaze adoringly at their own feet and hands.
But it is as normal as sleeping and eating.
Biologically speaking, sex is a biological function. Anatomically speaking,
there is a reproductive system.
<<But to take it very seriously and not just think "oh it's what everyone is
doing, no big deal." >>
Ideally it's what all married humans are doing with some frequency.
If they're not, there's an unhealthy dynamic going on. Maybe their parents
made sex seem unnatural, not a normal function, not a necessary and important
function for health.
<< I think there are the parents who try and scare the
crap out of the kids and then the other ones who just say this is what it is
physically and don't worry about the whole responsibility part of it both
physically and emotionally.>>
I didn't see ANYONE recommending that latter part of that. Not anyone.
I've been open with my kids about sex AND because I have teenaged boys, about
how sometimes it is used to entrap boys into arrangements they're not really
old enough to understand. I've shown them two (pointed out to them, not
procured for them) examples of females anxious to marry, who would be willing
to do or say just about anything to get one of my boys or one of their
friends into a relationship that could lead to marriage and QUICK.
One, I've lost track of. When this batch of boys didn't pan out for her, she
went hunting elsewhere.
One came from out of state, bought four of the boys here gifts (spent over
$250 easily on these gifts), hung out with them. I never met her. I thought
about pressing that, but decided to warn and get the gossip instead. What I
knew before she came to visit was she was in her mid 20's and had a severely
disabled child. Diapers at 12, not walking, some neurological thing which
leaves her as helpless as an infant. They met through online gaming.
I found out two days ago that a friend's unschooled only son met and has
already MARRIED a woman he met online. She moved to Canada from Hong Kong.
She's about ten years older. I think he's 17. The parents actually really
like her and seem to think it's a viable situation. Partly because the
parents are themselves of a similar age difference and the mother is from a
wholly different country (one of the Eastern European nations).
So with all that, what I'm trying to say is that the technicalities of sexual
relations themselves might not be as important to know as the surrounding
realities. Before having teenaged boys I had an entirely "girl-centric" view
of the dangers of teenaged hormone storms. I knew which boys were dangerous
and didn't much think girls could be dangerous.
While "just right" is everyone's goal, I'd rather my kids had too much
knowledge than too little, about things as important as this.
Sandra
<< I also think though that
parents can't make it seem like sex it something that is just like sleeping
and eating. You need to do those things from birth. >>
There are things babies do that older humans don't. Like lie on their backs
and gaze adoringly at their own feet and hands.
But it is as normal as sleeping and eating.
Biologically speaking, sex is a biological function. Anatomically speaking,
there is a reproductive system.
<<But to take it very seriously and not just think "oh it's what everyone is
doing, no big deal." >>
Ideally it's what all married humans are doing with some frequency.
If they're not, there's an unhealthy dynamic going on. Maybe their parents
made sex seem unnatural, not a normal function, not a necessary and important
function for health.
<< I think there are the parents who try and scare the
crap out of the kids and then the other ones who just say this is what it is
physically and don't worry about the whole responsibility part of it both
physically and emotionally.>>
I didn't see ANYONE recommending that latter part of that. Not anyone.
I've been open with my kids about sex AND because I have teenaged boys, about
how sometimes it is used to entrap boys into arrangements they're not really
old enough to understand. I've shown them two (pointed out to them, not
procured for them) examples of females anxious to marry, who would be willing
to do or say just about anything to get one of my boys or one of their
friends into a relationship that could lead to marriage and QUICK.
One, I've lost track of. When this batch of boys didn't pan out for her, she
went hunting elsewhere.
One came from out of state, bought four of the boys here gifts (spent over
$250 easily on these gifts), hung out with them. I never met her. I thought
about pressing that, but decided to warn and get the gossip instead. What I
knew before she came to visit was she was in her mid 20's and had a severely
disabled child. Diapers at 12, not walking, some neurological thing which
leaves her as helpless as an infant. They met through online gaming.
I found out two days ago that a friend's unschooled only son met and has
already MARRIED a woman he met online. She moved to Canada from Hong Kong.
She's about ten years older. I think he's 17. The parents actually really
like her and seem to think it's a viable situation. Partly because the
parents are themselves of a similar age difference and the mother is from a
wholly different country (one of the Eastern European nations).
So with all that, what I'm trying to say is that the technicalities of sexual
relations themselves might not be as important to know as the surrounding
realities. Before having teenaged boys I had an entirely "girl-centric" view
of the dangers of teenaged hormone storms. I knew which boys were dangerous
and didn't much think girls could be dangerous.
While "just right" is everyone's goal, I'd rather my kids had too much
knowledge than too little, about things as important as this.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/02 3:17:08 PM, ddzimlew@... writes:
<< It seems a really bad idea to build sex into either some kind of sacred
shrine of love or some kind of dirty, guilty secret with no option in
between for normal people with normal desires. >>
Well there you have our entire culture, though. Sex outside of marriage is
sin and sex within marrige is a sacred shrine of obedience and obligation.
(Started to say love, but it didn't seem right in this context.)
The history of our religion, school system, and psychology come from late
19th century Germany, Austria and England. "Uptight" hardly seems a strong
enough word.
http://www.naturalchild.com/alice_miller/booklist.html
Just reading the descriptions of her books is an education in itself.
Sandra
<< It seems a really bad idea to build sex into either some kind of sacred
shrine of love or some kind of dirty, guilty secret with no option in
between for normal people with normal desires. >>
Well there you have our entire culture, though. Sex outside of marriage is
sin and sex within marrige is a sacred shrine of obedience and obligation.
(Started to say love, but it didn't seem right in this context.)
The history of our religion, school system, and psychology come from late
19th century Germany, Austria and England. "Uptight" hardly seems a strong
enough word.
http://www.naturalchild.com/alice_miller/booklist.html
Just reading the descriptions of her books is an education in itself.
Sandra
Dalene and Andy
>>I found out two days ago that a friend's unschooled only son met and hasalready MARRIED a woman he met online. She moved to Canada from Hong Kong.
She's about ten years older. I think he's 17.
I find it really hard to understand why a well adjusted, happy, secure, loved, unschooled child would have the need to bemarried at the age of 17??
Dalene
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/02 5:20:51 PM, mactier@... writes:
<< I find it really hard to understand why a well adjusted, happy, secure,
loved, unschooled child would have the need to bemarried at the age of 17?? >>
He and the woman corresponded a long, long time. He had become a born-again
Christian, although neither of his parents are. This woman was likewise a
born-again Christian, and they found they had lots in common.
The boy's adopted. I don't know whether that matters. I was always
fascinated seeing his life unfold, because all the parents knew about the
birth parents was that they were musicians. And this child was and is VERY
musical. Picks instruments up easily, composes...
I don't think he had a need to get married and then looked around. I think
he found someone he felt was a soulmate, and the desire to marry grew later.
He has always seemed happy, well adjusted and loved. He left school when he
was 12 or so, because the dad and I have known each other for a long long
time. I don't think there was ever any strife between him and the parents.
He unschooled merrily and intently, writing music and working on an elaborate
Christian website.
Of course, I hope the woman isn't just using him to be Canadian instead of
HongKong-newly-Chinese.
Sandra
<< I find it really hard to understand why a well adjusted, happy, secure,
loved, unschooled child would have the need to bemarried at the age of 17?? >>
He and the woman corresponded a long, long time. He had become a born-again
Christian, although neither of his parents are. This woman was likewise a
born-again Christian, and they found they had lots in common.
The boy's adopted. I don't know whether that matters. I was always
fascinated seeing his life unfold, because all the parents knew about the
birth parents was that they were musicians. And this child was and is VERY
musical. Picks instruments up easily, composes...
I don't think he had a need to get married and then looked around. I think
he found someone he felt was a soulmate, and the desire to marry grew later.
He has always seemed happy, well adjusted and loved. He left school when he
was 12 or so, because the dad and I have known each other for a long long
time. I don't think there was ever any strife between him and the parents.
He unschooled merrily and intently, writing music and working on an elaborate
Christian website.
Of course, I hope the woman isn't just using him to be Canadian instead of
HongKong-newly-Chinese.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/02 5:01:38 PM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< One came from out of state, bought four of the boys here gifts (spent over
$250 easily on these gifts), hung out with them. I never met her. I thought
about pressing that, but decided to warn and get the gossip instead. What I
knew before she came to visit was she was in her mid 20's and had a severely
disabled child. Diapers at 12, not walking, some neurological thing which
leaves her as helpless as an infant. They met through online gaming.
than not, i've found).
She has now married someone who was also involved in the big RPG the boys are
in, also someone she was "married" to in the game. He lives nearer to her,
in California (well now I guess they live together). But my stock goes up
with the boys, because I called it and it came true--she was looking for a
husband.
Sandra
<< One came from out of state, bought four of the boys here gifts (spent over
$250 easily on these gifts), hung out with them. I never met her. I thought
about pressing that, but decided to warn and get the gossip instead. What I
knew before she came to visit was she was in her mid 20's and had a severely
disabled child. Diapers at 12, not walking, some neurological thing which
leaves her as helpless as an infant. They met through online gaming.
>>I forgot to say what I was building up to (it happens more with painkillers
than not, i've found).
She has now married someone who was also involved in the big RPG the boys are
in, also someone she was "married" to in the game. He lives nearer to her,
in California (well now I guess they live together). But my stock goes up
with the boys, because I called it and it came true--she was looking for a
husband.
Sandra
Mary Bianco
>From: SandraDodd@...<<There are things babies do that older humans don't. Like lie on their
backs and gaze adoringly at their own feet and hands.>>
Who says??!! <BEG>
<<Ideally it's what all married humans are doing with some frequency.
If they're not, there's an unhealthy dynamic going on. Maybe their parents
made sex seem unnatural, not a normal function, not a necessary and
important function for health.>>
Ideally yes, practically no. Not all marrieds do it with some frequency.
It's not my call to say they are unhealthy and maybe even not happy. Point
being too, you just mentioned married couples. Not 13 year olds giving oral
sex to anyone who asks. That's where the "everyone is doing it it's no big
deal comes in."
<<I didn't see ANYONE recommending that latter part of that. Not anyone.>>
Never said anyone was.
<<So with all that, what I'm trying to say is that the technicalities of
sexual relations themselves might not be as important to know as the
surrounding realities>>
Exactly.
<<While "just right" is everyone's goal, I'd rather my kids had too much
knowledge than too little, about things as important as this.>>
Again exactly. And my point as important as this is yes it is a big deal.
Mary B
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In a message dated 10/28/2002 6:01:24 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
My eldest son, the one in boot camp right now, is in a long term
relationship. Depending on what happens in Iraq and how that effects his
status, etc., there may be a wedding in the spring. My middle son is
desperate for a girlfriend! All the girls he knows are still in school, and
therefore can't relate to his adultish life; or they're in their 20s and
consider him too young (18 in a week).
We keep talking. So far, so good.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Before having teenaged boys I had an entirely "girl-centric" viewI remember having that paradigm shift.
> of the dangers of teenaged hormone storms. I knew which boys were
> dangerous
> and didn't much think girls could be dangerous.
>
My eldest son, the one in boot camp right now, is in a long term
relationship. Depending on what happens in Iraq and how that effects his
status, etc., there may be a wedding in the spring. My middle son is
desperate for a girlfriend! All the girls he knows are still in school, and
therefore can't relate to his adultish life; or they're in their 20s and
consider him too young (18 in a week).
We keep talking. So far, so good.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
On 28 Oct 02, at 22:45, Mary Bianco wrote:
Hollywood you'd think that the adult population were at it like
bunnies the whole time!! This has the effect of making people who
are reasonably comfortable with it then feeling inadequate cos they
ain't at it 4 times a week or whatever.
If only I had that much energy!
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> >From: Deborah Lewis <ddzimlew@...>There's too much emphasis on the whole thing. If you believed
>
> <<It seems a really bad idea to build sex into either some kind of
> sacred shrine of love or some kind of dirty, guilty secret with no
> option in between for normal people with normal desires.>>
>
>
> I agree with you again. But I still think sex is a really big deal.
> Especially in this day and age. It isn't just the whole physically
> giving and emotional part of it. There's a whole safety issue to it
> too. Not just pregnancy but with all kind of other possibilities.
>
> Mary B
>
Hollywood you'd think that the adult population were at it like
bunnies the whole time!! This has the effect of making people who
are reasonably comfortable with it then feeling inadequate cos they
ain't at it 4 times a week or whatever.
If only I had that much energy!
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/28/02 8:13:35 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< Ideally yes, practically no. Not all marrieds do it with some frequency.
It's not my call to say they are unhealthy and maybe even not happy. Point
being too, you just mentioned married couples. Not 13 year olds giving oral
sex to anyone who asks. That's where the "everyone is doing it it's no big
deal comes in." >>
My mother thought sex was nasty. She could not possibly have been the only
person born in the 1930's who thought sex was nasty.
There might be a point you're trying to make or refute with your 13 year old,
but I've never known one. Let's say you do know one. Was that child given
too much information or not enough. Was the information cloaked in code
phrases, or was it frank and real?
Sandra
<< Ideally yes, practically no. Not all marrieds do it with some frequency.
It's not my call to say they are unhealthy and maybe even not happy. Point
being too, you just mentioned married couples. Not 13 year olds giving oral
sex to anyone who asks. That's where the "everyone is doing it it's no big
deal comes in." >>
My mother thought sex was nasty. She could not possibly have been the only
person born in the 1930's who thought sex was nasty.
There might be a point you're trying to make or refute with your 13 year old,
but I've never known one. Let's say you do know one. Was that child given
too much information or not enough. Was the information cloaked in code
phrases, or was it frank and real?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/2002 10:15:51 AM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
I'm not incredulous, just trying to understand.
The Dr. Phil show (yeah, I watch it, having only 8 channels at present)
yesterday was all about teenage girls giving oral sex to boys at parties and
at school, and it not being any big deal and it's not *sex* at all. @@
Young teenagers, 15 yo's having become experts since they started at the age
of 12 and stuff like that.
I realize that not *all* 13 yos are doing such things, but some are. It's
sad.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> There might be a point you're trying to make or refute with your 13 yearYou've never known a 13 yo who gives oral sex? Is that what you're saying?
> old,
> but I've never known one. Let's say you do know one.
I'm not incredulous, just trying to understand.
The Dr. Phil show (yeah, I watch it, having only 8 channels at present)
yesterday was all about teenage girls giving oral sex to boys at parties and
at school, and it not being any big deal and it's not *sex* at all. @@
Young teenagers, 15 yo's having become experts since they started at the age
of 12 and stuff like that.
I realize that not *all* 13 yos are doing such things, but some are. It's
sad.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/02 9:36:48 AM, tuckervill@... writes:
<< You've never known a 13 yo who gives oral sex? Is that what you're
saying?
I'm not incredulous, just trying to understand.
I think the original quote was extreme for the sake of being extreme.
<< You've never known a 13 yo who gives oral sex? Is that what you're
saying?
I'm not incredulous, just trying to understand.
>>We're too far from the original quote for anything I say now to have meaning.
I think the original quote was extreme for the sake of being extreme.
Mary Bianco
>From: SandraDodd@...<<There might be a point you're trying to make or refute with your 13 year
old, but I've never known one. Let's say you do know one. Was that child
given too much information or not enough. Was the information cloaked in
code phrases, or was it frank and real?>>
My point got lost a long time ago. It was that I think sex can't be handled
as being no big deal. It's not nasty, it is pleasurable, you don't have to
wait until you're married. On the other hand, I wouldn't handle it the same
as sleeping or eating. What with emotions, being used, having a reputation,
STD's and pregnancy, it's not something you just do because it's natural and
everyone is doing it. Not at 13. And that's what we were talking about, kids
and sex, not grown ups. Kids are going at it when they are 12 and 13 now
like no big deal. They start with oral sex because it's not sex. And I'm not
talking about the kids on this list or homeschoolers or good catholics, I'm
talking general population. And just for the record, I don't have a 13 year
old now.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Unlimited Internet access -- and 2 months free!� Try MSN.
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Peggy
Mary Bianco wrote:
and children, for various reasons: early sexualization by adults, needs for
approval or power, pressured by peers or older teens are some reasons. And,
the possibility does arise for early sexuality to just be a normal part of a
teens individual or cultural background.
This was as true in our mother's or our generation as it is today. Sex has
always been a big deal in our culture or any culture where women and children
are considered the property of a man. Keeping one's hoohoo safe for that
perfect someone is always about property. Not to say there are not significant
physical and emotional risks involved in early sexuality for both boys and
girls in this culture, but early sexuality taken out of our cultural context
is not necessarily destructive.
Peggy
>When didn't kids "go at it"? There have always been precocious sexual teens
> >From: SandraDodd@...
>
> <<There might be a point you're trying to make or refute with your 13 year
> old, but I've never known one. Let's say you do know one. Was that child
> given too much information or not enough. Was the information cloaked in
> code phrases, or was it frank and real?>>
>
> My point got lost a long time ago. It was that I think sex can't be handled
> as being no big deal. It's not nasty, it is pleasurable, you don't have to
> wait until you're married. On the other hand, I wouldn't handle it the same
> as sleeping or eating. What with emotions, being used, having a reputation,
> STD's and pregnancy, it's not something you just do because it's natural and
> everyone is doing it. Not at 13. And that's what we were talking about, kids
> and sex, not grown ups. Kids are going at it when they are 12 and 13 now
> like no big deal. They start with oral sex because it's not sex. And I'm not
> talking about the kids on this list or homeschoolers or good catholics, I'm
> talking general population. And just for the record, I don't have a 13 year
> old now.
and children, for various reasons: early sexualization by adults, needs for
approval or power, pressured by peers or older teens are some reasons. And,
the possibility does arise for early sexuality to just be a normal part of a
teens individual or cultural background.
This was as true in our mother's or our generation as it is today. Sex has
always been a big deal in our culture or any culture where women and children
are considered the property of a man. Keeping one's hoohoo safe for that
perfect someone is always about property. Not to say there are not significant
physical and emotional risks involved in early sexuality for both boys and
girls in this culture, but early sexuality taken out of our cultural context
is not necessarily destructive.
Peggy
Dalene and Andy
>>It was that I think sex can't be handledas being no big deal. It's not nasty, it is pleasurable, you don't have to
wait until you're married. On the other hand, I wouldn't handle it the same
as sleeping or eating. What with emotions, being used, having a reputation,
STD's and pregnancy, it's not something you just do because it's natural and
everyone is doing it. Not at 13.
I absolutely agree with you. I think everyone has some kind of idea that it might be okay for their child to become sexually active, in all honesty for me it is much later. Early adulthood. I feel it is about responsibility and emotional well being. I would certainly encourage my children to wait a while. Off course in the end they will make their own decisions - but they will make it will all the information, and all the information will include why I think it is a good idea to wait a little longer.
I also don't believe it is wise to say the general population will do it, not our homeschooled kids. I would never have thought an unschooled child would go off and marry someone that he met on the internet at the age of 17, without telling his parents. Homeschooled children are not armoured against harm or bad decisions for life. Wouldn't it be wonderful if they were.
Dalene
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
My mother gave us the same impression growing up, and when I finally did talk with her about my boyfriend and I (who is now my husband) she decided to get out of my car and walk away. Needless to say that leaves a young woman feeling like sex is just great! ha! For my mother the whole religious thing with pre-marital sex was just so huge for her that if she knew her children were doing it, Oh my gosh!! She would rather not know. So, with my children, we always have a running conversation going, I don't believe it will create a sexually active person, especially if you explain things to them. Now on the other hand if the only thing that comes out of your mouth is that pre-marital sex is bad, and no further explanations or dialogues, well, good luck.
Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 10/28/02 8:13:35 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< Ideally yes, practically no. Not all marrieds do it with some frequency.
It's not my call to say they are unhealthy and maybe even not happy. Point
being too, you just mentioned married couples. Not 13 year olds giving oral
sex to anyone who asks. That's where the "everyone is doing it it's no big
deal comes in." >>
My mother thought sex was nasty. She could not possibly have been the only
person born in the 1930's who thought sex was nasty.
There might be a point you're trying to make or refute with your 13 year old,
but I've never known one. Let's say you do know one. Was that child given
too much information or not enough. Was the information cloaked in code
phrases, or was it frank and real?
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 10/28/02 8:13:35 PM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< Ideally yes, practically no. Not all marrieds do it with some frequency.
It's not my call to say they are unhealthy and maybe even not happy. Point
being too, you just mentioned married couples. Not 13 year olds giving oral
sex to anyone who asks. That's where the "everyone is doing it it's no big
deal comes in." >>
My mother thought sex was nasty. She could not possibly have been the only
person born in the 1930's who thought sex was nasty.
There might be a point you're trying to make or refute with your 13 year old,
but I've never known one. Let's say you do know one. Was that child given
too much information or not enough. Was the information cloaked in code
phrases, or was it frank and real?
Sandra
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***My point got lost a long time ago. ***
Did we have a point? <G>
I said my son, at ten, thinks of sex as a normal human function. I'm
glad about that.
Eating is a normal function but we don't just eat any old thing. We
don't eat the family cat, we don't eat rocks, we don't eat our neighbors.
We all poop but we don't poop in the grocery store or in the street or in
the car. (No fair telling cute baby pooping stories about salad bowls!)
I didn't say I would tell my son "have at it there kiddo!" I tried to
say (must not be doing so well) that we view sex as a perfectly natural
part of life. Within the framework of our (relatively) normal and
healthy family, he'll learn healthy attitudes about sex like he learned
about all the other stuff.
I think most of us are saying the same things.
Deb L
Did we have a point? <G>
I said my son, at ten, thinks of sex as a normal human function. I'm
glad about that.
Eating is a normal function but we don't just eat any old thing. We
don't eat the family cat, we don't eat rocks, we don't eat our neighbors.
We all poop but we don't poop in the grocery store or in the street or in
the car. (No fair telling cute baby pooping stories about salad bowls!)
I didn't say I would tell my son "have at it there kiddo!" I tried to
say (must not be doing so well) that we view sex as a perfectly natural
part of life. Within the framework of our (relatively) normal and
healthy family, he'll learn healthy attitudes about sex like he learned
about all the other stuff.
I think most of us are saying the same things.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/02 9:44:02 AM Central Standard Time,
shyrley.williams@... writes:
~Nancy who's husband obviously needs to take more time off...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
shyrley.williams@... writes:
> This has the effect of making people who4 times a week?!!? A whole 7 day week? 168 hours? You get it that often? <eg>
> are reasonably comfortable with it then feeling inadequate cos they
> ain't at it 4 times a week or whatever.
> If only I had that much energy!
>
> Shyrley
~Nancy who's husband obviously needs to take more time off...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/02 11:52:10 AM, mactier@... writes:
<< I would never have thought an unschooled child would go off and marry
someone that he met on the internet at the age of 17, without telling his
parents. >>
Where did you get the idea he didn't tell his parents? (If this is about my
friend in Canada, his parents were informed throughout.)
<< I would never have thought an unschooled child would go off and marry
someone that he met on the internet at the age of 17, without telling his
parents. >>
Where did you get the idea he didn't tell his parents? (If this is about my
friend in Canada, his parents were informed throughout.)
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/02 12:45:19 PM, kellitraas@... writes:
<< So, with my children, we always have a running conversation going, I
don't believe it will create a sexually active person, especially if you
explain things to them. Now on the other hand if the only thing that comes
out of your mouth is that pre-marital sex is bad, and no further
explanations or dialogues, well, good luck. >>
One thing I told my boys last time we had a chance to talk about it all was
it doesn't hurt to stall off, because once it starts, it's not so easy NOT to
do it, but it's fairly easy to wait until you're really sure you're ready.
And I'm not changing my stance on the condom. Maybe it's about time to give
Marty one. With Kirby's I told him I would hate for the first time he used a
condom to be the second time he had needed one. The first time isn't always
fully scheduled and planned for many people.
Sandra
<< So, with my children, we always have a running conversation going, I
don't believe it will create a sexually active person, especially if you
explain things to them. Now on the other hand if the only thing that comes
out of your mouth is that pre-marital sex is bad, and no further
explanations or dialogues, well, good luck. >>
One thing I told my boys last time we had a chance to talk about it all was
it doesn't hurt to stall off, because once it starts, it's not so easy NOT to
do it, but it's fairly easy to wait until you're really sure you're ready.
And I'm not changing my stance on the condom. Maybe it's about time to give
Marty one. With Kirby's I told him I would hate for the first time he used a
condom to be the second time he had needed one. The first time isn't always
fully scheduled and planned for many people.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/29/02 4:31:27 PM Central Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
every few months or so? Especially if he keeps it in his wallet. Condoms tend
to dry up and get brittle. You could open one and think it looks and feels
okay, but it really isn't. Somewhere it got poked and a small hole is
lurking. The spermicidal has lost its efficiency. Did you give him a cucumber
and have him practice? At the class I teach at the health center for teens, I
blindfold them, turn on a timer for 25 seconds, hand them a cucumber (we do
have some *toys* but some parents objected) and a condom still in its
wrapper. They have to get it out of the wrapper and onto the cucumber, right
side out by the time the timer goes off. We also do it one handed. Because
sometimes the hands are occupied.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> And I'm not changing my stance on the condom. Maybe it's about time to giveYou did tell him to throw it away (if he doesn't use it) and get a new one
>
> Marty one. With Kirby's I told him I would hate for the first time he used
> a
> condom to be the second time he had needed one. The first time isn't
> always
> fully scheduled and planned for many people.
>
> Sandra
every few months or so? Especially if he keeps it in his wallet. Condoms tend
to dry up and get brittle. You could open one and think it looks and feels
okay, but it really isn't. Somewhere it got poked and a small hole is
lurking. The spermicidal has lost its efficiency. Did you give him a cucumber
and have him practice? At the class I teach at the health center for teens, I
blindfold them, turn on a timer for 25 seconds, hand them a cucumber (we do
have some *toys* but some parents objected) and a condom still in its
wrapper. They have to get it out of the wrapper and onto the cucumber, right
side out by the time the timer goes off. We also do it one handed. Because
sometimes the hands are occupied.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
WOW Nancy!
Ok, so I'm wondering who decided on the 25 second time limit and why?
Where there elaborate studies that determined partners wouldn't wait past
that time? <g>
Are there girls in this class too, because that would be a useful thing
for a girl to know, it seems.
Boy's parents objected to the "toys" or girl's parents?
The mind boggles.
Just curious, and feeling old.
Deb L
Ok, so I'm wondering who decided on the 25 second time limit and why?
Where there elaborate studies that determined partners wouldn't wait past
that time? <g>
Are there girls in this class too, because that would be a useful thing
for a girl to know, it seems.
Boy's parents objected to the "toys" or girl's parents?
The mind boggles.
Just curious, and feeling old.
Deb L
> You did tell him to throw it away (if he doesn't use it) and get a
> new one
> every few months or so? Especially if he keeps it in his wallet.
> Condoms tend
> to dry up and get brittle. You could open one and think it looks and
> feels
> okay, but it really isn't. Somewhere it got poked and a small hole
> is
> lurking. The spermicidal has lost its efficiency. Did you give him a
> cucumber
> and have him practice? At the class I teach at the health center for
> teens, I
> blindfold them, turn on a timer for 25 seconds, hand them a cucumber
> (we do
> have some *toys* but some parents objected) and a condom still in
> its
> wrapper. They have to get it out of the wrapper and onto the
> cucumber, right
> side out by the time the timer goes off. We also do it one handed.
> Because
> sometimes the hands are occupied.
>
> ~Nancy