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In a message dated 11/23/99 10:25:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
shantinik@... writes:

<< Hence, we see more
passivity and, occasionally, more violence among children -- just
different ways of expressing powerlessness -- which is the inevitable
result of the three organizing principles. >>

So true! And Pam, that was a powerful post about the dog experiments,
though quite disturbing and sad. I have had times in my own life when I
succumbed to this kind of helplessness. I was always somewhat of a fighter
and found ways to do things my way. However, at a few points in my life, I
felt like there weren't any options and felt myself sinking into depression
and apathy. People have to feel like they have some control over their
lives, some choices, some ways to change things, or they give up. OR they
sometimes do something drastic to forceably bring back control, as in the
case of the violent kids or the suicidal kids.
When will we as a society realize that our kids' lives are their own and
not the property of bureaucrats, institutions, or even parents? Yes, we love
our kids and guide them and help them but their days have to have long
stretches of freedom to figure out what they like and to do it. I guess I'm
preaching to the choir now...

Lucy in Calif.

Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

> When will we as a society realize that our kids' lives are their own
and
>not the property of bureaucrats, institutions, or even parents?
> Lucy in Calif.

Interesting twist to this...We are in the process of adopting from foster
care and are dealing with issues of adopting cross racially. One problem
adoptive parents of these kids often find, is that when members of the
child's race see the family out in public, they often feel justified in
offering unwanted advice, interfering with parenting and in other ways
stick their noses in. There is some sort of "racial belonging" that makes
them think they have more of a claim to the child than the other-race
adoptive parents. I have heard numerous stories from adoptive parents
about being chided or downright upbrarided for some percieved inadequancy
in parenting these children. Adoptive parents of different race children
also feel somehow obliged to humor these intrusions and do their best to
please the entire community of their child's race (an impossible task.) It
is as if the attitude: "This child is not yours. You are just borrowing
this child from us, and you really should not have them." is infectious,
and leaves the adoptive parents feeling like maybe they don't have as much
claim to raise this child as they see fit, just as they would a birth
child, but maybe they must seek advice from every stranger on the street.

This thinking, and attitude, is just as wrong-headed to me as thinking of
children as the property of parents. They are their own people, and
entitled to feel out and decide about their own connections to their racial
heritage. It's our responsiblity to see that they have the tools necessary
to develop a healthy self image and cultural identity. But they are every
bit as much a part of the family's culture as they are any birth culture,
and we should take our cues from them about it.

Nanci K.

David Albert

LASaliger@... wrote:

> From: LASaliger@...
>
> In a message dated 11/23/99 10:25:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> shantinik@... writes:
>
> << Hence, we see more
> passivity and, occasionally, more violence among children -- just
> different ways of expressing powerlessness -- which is the inevitable
>
> result of the three organizing principles. >>
>
> So true! And Pam, that was a powerful post about the dog
> experiments,
> though quite disturbing and sad. I have had times in my own life when
> I
> succumbed to this kind of helplessness. I was always somewhat of a
> fighter
> and found ways to do things my way. However, at a few points in my
> life, I
> felt like there weren't any options and felt myself sinking into
> depression
> and apathy. People have to feel like they have some control over
> their
> lives, some choices, some ways to change things, or they give up. OR
> they
> sometimes do something drastic to forceably bring back control, as in
> the
> case of the violent kids or the suicidal kids.
> When will we as a society realize that our kids' lives are their
> own and
> not the property of bureaucrats, institutions, or even parents? Yes,
> we love
> our kids and guide them and help them but their days have to have long
>
> stretches of freedom to figure out what they like and to do it. I
> guess I'm
> preaching to the choir now...
>
> Lucy in Calif.
>

I hear the angels singing...

David

--
Anthony Manousos calls "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures in
Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" "a joyous celebration of
the creative potential in every child." To read a sample chapter,
reviewers' comments, or the foreword, and for ordering info., visit my
website at http://www.skylarksings.com