spanking/not spanking
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/25/02 12:47:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< If this is too personal, I understand. I was wondering how the first born
is
doing now? Do you see any major differences because of how that child was
raised as far as the spankings and restrictions and all? >>
I know you weren't asking me Mary, but I just had to chime in.
My oldest that had all the punishments, spankings etc... is a lot more angry
than he otherwise would have been, I am quite sure.
He deals with the same anger issues I do, see how it gets passed on?
The rest of my children, though they suffered a little of my idiocy (but not
nearly the same crap) are more calm and gentle. Even my spit fire girl, who
is very independant and strong willed, is not the angry person that he is.
I really believe it's my fault.
But we are working on it, and I see him learning new tools for dealing with
it all the time. I'm glad I figured this out before he was raised.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< If this is too personal, I understand. I was wondering how the first born
is
doing now? Do you see any major differences because of how that child was
raised as far as the spankings and restrictions and all? >>
I know you weren't asking me Mary, but I just had to chime in.
My oldest that had all the punishments, spankings etc... is a lot more angry
than he otherwise would have been, I am quite sure.
He deals with the same anger issues I do, see how it gets passed on?
The rest of my children, though they suffered a little of my idiocy (but not
nearly the same crap) are more calm and gentle. Even my spit fire girl, who
is very independant and strong willed, is not the angry person that he is.
I really believe it's my fault.
But we are working on it, and I see him learning new tools for dealing with
it all the time. I'm glad I figured this out before he was raised.
Ren
[email protected]
My oldest is 5 and he too had some spankings which we tried to avoid and
then in the end came back to the realization that it didn't work. We
try to talk to him when things go "wrong" and at times he is sent to his
room where we can all get a breather and decide how to handle ti which
usually ends up either my dh and/or I go in and try to talk again. Is
this similar to how others handle situations ? I am curious how others
handle things when the kids talk back (in a way that I don't feel we
talk to them) , swear etc...Thanks ,Sharon
then in the end came back to the realization that it didn't work. We
try to talk to him when things go "wrong" and at times he is sent to his
room where we can all get a breather and decide how to handle ti which
usually ends up either my dh and/or I go in and try to talk again. Is
this similar to how others handle situations ? I am curious how others
handle things when the kids talk back (in a way that I don't feel we
talk to them) , swear etc...Thanks ,Sharon
Myranda
For us, it really depends on the situation. Whining is our biggest problem. I simply say that I can't understand when someone talks and whines at the same time, and sometimes do a little whine-talk of my own to make them laugh. That usually ends it. If not, I tell them I'm going to go do something (use the potty, put folded laundry away, get a drink) and that I'll be right back and we'll talk about it then. By the time a few minutes have past, the whines will be gone for sure.
For general snippyness, I'll ask that they use a nice tone of voice and say whatever again. They do the same to me! <g> Keeps us all straight.
We've never had a problem with swearing, because I don't, and DH doesn't when the kids are around. They'll repeat swear words that are in songs (a favorite now is "we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the american way") but I've warned them that doing that around grandparents or most other adults may offend them.
Myranda
My oldest is 5 and he too had some spankings which we tried to avoid and
then in the end came back to the realization that it didn't work. We
try to talk to him when things go "wrong" and at times he is sent to his
room where we can all get a breather and decide how to handle ti which
usually ends up either my dh and/or I go in and try to talk again. Is
this similar to how others handle situations ? I am curious how others
handle things when the kids talk back (in a way that I don't feel we
talk to them) , swear etc...Thanks ,Sharon
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
For general snippyness, I'll ask that they use a nice tone of voice and say whatever again. They do the same to me! <g> Keeps us all straight.
We've never had a problem with swearing, because I don't, and DH doesn't when the kids are around. They'll repeat swear words that are in songs (a favorite now is "we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the american way") but I've warned them that doing that around grandparents or most other adults may offend them.
Myranda
My oldest is 5 and he too had some spankings which we tried to avoid and
then in the end came back to the realization that it didn't work. We
try to talk to him when things go "wrong" and at times he is sent to his
room where we can all get a breather and decide how to handle ti which
usually ends up either my dh and/or I go in and try to talk again. Is
this similar to how others handle situations ? I am curious how others
handle things when the kids talk back (in a way that I don't feel we
talk to them) , swear etc...Thanks ,Sharon
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
***I have a 5 yr. old son who gets spanked when he is disobedient.***
Who spanks you when you're disobedient?
***He has just learned and respects that we are his parents and that in
some cases if he doesn't listen the FIRST time...it could lead to harm.
(getting hit by a car, for example).***
Or getting beaten by your mother for another.
And respect and fear are not the same thing.
Would you respect a person who hurt you physically whenever you didn't conform to their will? I wouldn't.
***Reb Bradley has a book out called,
"Child Training Tips".***
For those of you torn between your Christian worldview and not wanting to harm your children, there *are* Christian authors who are against spanking. William Sears, for one, has an excellent chapter in his Discipline Book... 10 reasons not to spank or something like that.
***I just believe that he...and
our 1 1/2 yr. old and 3 mth. old...need to be raised to know we are in
charge...and they need to be able to obey us...so that as adults...it is
easier for them to obey God's word.***
<shudder>
***:-) Bridget***
:-( Patti
Who spanks you when you're disobedient?
***He has just learned and respects that we are his parents and that in
some cases if he doesn't listen the FIRST time...it could lead to harm.
(getting hit by a car, for example).***
Or getting beaten by your mother for another.
And respect and fear are not the same thing.
Would you respect a person who hurt you physically whenever you didn't conform to their will? I wouldn't.
***Reb Bradley has a book out called,
"Child Training Tips".***
For those of you torn between your Christian worldview and not wanting to harm your children, there *are* Christian authors who are against spanking. William Sears, for one, has an excellent chapter in his Discipline Book... 10 reasons not to spank or something like that.
***I just believe that he...and
our 1 1/2 yr. old and 3 mth. old...need to be raised to know we are in
charge...and they need to be able to obey us...so that as adults...it is
easier for them to obey God's word.***
<shudder>
***:-) Bridget***
:-( Patti
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/25/02 1:37:15 PM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:
<< And respect and fear are not the same thing.>>
I was taught they were, in church. That you should fear God, with trembling.
That God was a JUST God which is why he could never EVER make even one
little exception about his wrathful, fair judgement.
<<Would you respect a person who hurt you physically whenever you didn't
conform to their will? I wouldn't. >>
That would be God, the one who will hurt you physically if you don't conform.
Or God's earthly ministers and representatives.
Sandra
<< And respect and fear are not the same thing.>>
I was taught they were, in church. That you should fear God, with trembling.
That God was a JUST God which is why he could never EVER make even one
little exception about his wrathful, fair judgement.
<<Would you respect a person who hurt you physically whenever you didn't
conform to their will? I wouldn't. >>
That would be God, the one who will hurt you physically if you don't conform.
Or God's earthly ministers and representatives.
Sandra
Mary Bianco
>From: starsuncloud@...<<I know you weren't asking me Mary, but I just had to chime in.
My oldest that had all the punishments, spankings etc... is a lot more angry
than he otherwise would have been, I am quite sure.
He deals with the same anger issues I do, see how it gets passed on?
The rest of my children, though they suffered a little of my idiocy (but not
nearly the same crap) are more calm and gentle. Even my spit fire girl, who
is very independant and strong willed, is not the angry person that he is. I
really believe it's my fault. But we are working on it, and I see him
learning new tools for dealing with it all the time. I'm glad I figured this
out before he was raised.>>
Yeah that's exactly how it came out with my daughter, anger and lots of it.
I guess I'm curious to ask thinking maybe someone can tell me it didn't hurt
their child that was spanked that much. That way I can take some of the
blame off of me and the guilt I deal with even yet. If someone's kid turned
out great after having all the discipline that I provided too, then maybe it
wasn't all my fault and some of it was my daughter's personality or her
brain not doing what it should have been doing. See, my daughter self
injured for years and although she's okay now, it really tore me apart. To
know that your child hurts herself to take away the pain she's feeling.
Pretty crappy.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Get faster connections�-- switch to�MSN Internet Access!
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
Mary Bianco
<<Sharon wrote:
My oldest is 5 and he too had some spankings which we tried to avoid and
then in the end came back to the realization that it didn't work. We
try to talk to him when things go "wrong" and at times he is sent to his
room where we can all get a breather and decide how to handle ti which
usually ends up either my dh and/or I go in and try to talk again. Is
this similar to how others handle situations ? I am curious how others
handle things when the kids talk back (in a way that I don't feel we
talk to them) , swear etc...>>
Well I talk and talk and talk some more. I'm so much more patient now then
when I was younger. (or is it that I'm just slower?!) I don't even send
anyone to their rooms or anything. I'll usually suggest a calming down
period if I see things are heating up. It's usually between my 6 and 7 year
olds. When I suggest that we all take a minute to breath and calm down, one
of them will actually get up and leae and go somewher else. Luckily we have
plenty of other places for one to go around here. The one that stays is
usually the one I can talk to first about what happened and how did they
feel and how do you think the other one felt and what could we do different
if it happens again. Then when that's settled, I go and see the other one,
who by now I can talk to. Usually that's my son but not always. That's
pretty much how we work everything out. Not always does one leave either.
They are getting more and more use staying and working it out and I even
hear them both at different times working it out together before anything
starts. How nice is that???
Now I'm working on getting my husband to understand. He's really good with
the kids but sometimes he doesn't think right away and raises his voice,
which causes the kids to ask if he's mad at them. That's a good reminder for
him then to go a different route. He definitely doesn't want them to think
he's mad at them for whatever.
If one of the children takes a tone maybe that isn't sounding so nice, I
will ask them to stop a minute and think if that's the way they really want
to put it. I haven't ever had any of them in the past couple of years say
yes and continue being as some might call sassy. I say past couple of years
because I have a 16 year old who we didn't nurture the same way and well, 12
and 13 were tough years. 14 and 15 were better and now we're great!!
I just look at what would work for me and someone saying is that what you
really meant or why are you saying it like that would cause me to stop and
listen. It works with the kids too. At the same time, they are very much
able to express anger to me or my husband and have that be fine. It's just a
matter of caring about the other person at the same time you're mad at them!
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Broadband?�Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
My oldest is 5 and he too had some spankings which we tried to avoid and
then in the end came back to the realization that it didn't work. We
try to talk to him when things go "wrong" and at times he is sent to his
room where we can all get a breather and decide how to handle ti which
usually ends up either my dh and/or I go in and try to talk again. Is
this similar to how others handle situations ? I am curious how others
handle things when the kids talk back (in a way that I don't feel we
talk to them) , swear etc...>>
Well I talk and talk and talk some more. I'm so much more patient now then
when I was younger. (or is it that I'm just slower?!) I don't even send
anyone to their rooms or anything. I'll usually suggest a calming down
period if I see things are heating up. It's usually between my 6 and 7 year
olds. When I suggest that we all take a minute to breath and calm down, one
of them will actually get up and leae and go somewher else. Luckily we have
plenty of other places for one to go around here. The one that stays is
usually the one I can talk to first about what happened and how did they
feel and how do you think the other one felt and what could we do different
if it happens again. Then when that's settled, I go and see the other one,
who by now I can talk to. Usually that's my son but not always. That's
pretty much how we work everything out. Not always does one leave either.
They are getting more and more use staying and working it out and I even
hear them both at different times working it out together before anything
starts. How nice is that???
Now I'm working on getting my husband to understand. He's really good with
the kids but sometimes he doesn't think right away and raises his voice,
which causes the kids to ask if he's mad at them. That's a good reminder for
him then to go a different route. He definitely doesn't want them to think
he's mad at them for whatever.
If one of the children takes a tone maybe that isn't sounding so nice, I
will ask them to stop a minute and think if that's the way they really want
to put it. I haven't ever had any of them in the past couple of years say
yes and continue being as some might call sassy. I say past couple of years
because I have a 16 year old who we didn't nurture the same way and well, 12
and 13 were tough years. 14 and 15 were better and now we're great!!
I just look at what would work for me and someone saying is that what you
really meant or why are you saying it like that would cause me to stop and
listen. It works with the kids too. At the same time, they are very much
able to express anger to me or my husband and have that be fine. It's just a
matter of caring about the other person at the same time you're mad at them!
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Broadband?�Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
[email protected]
Thanks Mary. This is similar to how we handle things now. I just like
to be able to bounce ideas off of like minded people and see what comes
out of it. Glad to hear it is working so nicely for all of you! So, I
just need to keep on, keepin' on :)
So , for the person who wrote pro-spanking - in a wierd way thank you
too. That is no way near how I want to handle my life and family .
That email can serve as a "don't do this " reminder. I don't want
mindless fearful children and that is why I am on this list.
Sharon
to be able to bounce ideas off of like minded people and see what comes
out of it. Glad to hear it is working so nicely for all of you! So, I
just need to keep on, keepin' on :)
So , for the person who wrote pro-spanking - in a wierd way thank you
too. That is no way near how I want to handle my life and family .
That email can serve as a "don't do this " reminder. I don't want
mindless fearful children and that is why I am on this list.
Sharon
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/25/02 4:26:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
sharonashleigh@... writes:
prescription bottles. Don't operate heavy machinery while taking this
medication.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sharonashleigh@... writes:
> So , for the person who wrote pro-spanking - in a wierd way thank youThat is a great way of looking at that post! Kind of like the warnings on
> too. That is no way near how I want to handle my life and family .
> That email can serve as a "don't do this " reminder. I don't want
> mindless fearful children and that is why I am on this list.
>
> Sharon
prescription bottles. Don't operate heavy machinery while taking this
medication.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85
I don't want
Pearl. Believe me, those of you who were "repulsed" at my very mild
posts stating that I believed in parental rights would have a fit
over that book. <grin>
After I read that book, I tried to put my finger on what exactly made
me so incredibly uncomfortable about that book, and the statement
above is exactly what I ended up realizing.
I don't want my children to obey automatically without thinking. I
want them to be able to question what I ask them to do. Some day
their boss might ask them to do something wrong. Some day their
country might ask them to do something against their convictions, and
I want them to know how to stand up for what they believe. I want
them to know the difference between what they believe and what
society tells them to believe. I want them to think for themselves.
I don't even want my children to obey God without question. That
might sounds shocking at first to another Christian, but if you think
about it, doesn't God want someone who is following Him out of love
and true conviction than out of blind obedience? I also want my
children to question anything a church or teacher or Christian book
tells them is "God's Will". So many people are SO easily influenced
by that kind of stuff. I want my kids to know that the pastor can be
wrong. The popular Christian book can be wrong. We need to search
the truth for ourselves and find out what God is truly telling us.
Kids raised to blindly obey without thinking might not be willing to
think and question first.
Sheila
> > mindless fearful children and that is why I am on this list.I read a book called "To Train up a Child" by Michael and Debi
Pearl. Believe me, those of you who were "repulsed" at my very mild
posts stating that I believed in parental rights would have a fit
over that book. <grin>
After I read that book, I tried to put my finger on what exactly made
me so incredibly uncomfortable about that book, and the statement
above is exactly what I ended up realizing.
I don't want my children to obey automatically without thinking. I
want them to be able to question what I ask them to do. Some day
their boss might ask them to do something wrong. Some day their
country might ask them to do something against their convictions, and
I want them to know how to stand up for what they believe. I want
them to know the difference between what they believe and what
society tells them to believe. I want them to think for themselves.
I don't even want my children to obey God without question. That
might sounds shocking at first to another Christian, but if you think
about it, doesn't God want someone who is following Him out of love
and true conviction than out of blind obedience? I also want my
children to question anything a church or teacher or Christian book
tells them is "God's Will". So many people are SO easily influenced
by that kind of stuff. I want my kids to know that the pastor can be
wrong. The popular Christian book can be wrong. We need to search
the truth for ourselves and find out what God is truly telling us.
Kids raised to blindly obey without thinking might not be willing to
think and question first.
Sheila
Pam Hartley
----------
I think it means unpunishing and uncontrolling, right along with the
unschooling.
I don't see how you (generic you) can truly have one without the others. If
you are going to trust and respect your child's timetable, ability and
desire to learn math and how to read, I cannot fathom how you wouldn't also
trust her timetable, ability and desire to learn to be a good human being
(unpunishing) and sensible consumer of entertainment and food
(uncontrolling).
Color me simple, but... this seems simple in concept to me.
Pam
>From: [email protected]I think it does.
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2561
>Date: Sat, Oct 26, 2002, 11:59 AM
>
> Unschooling doesn't necessarily mean not spanking.
I think it means unpunishing and uncontrolling, right along with the
unschooling.
I don't see how you (generic you) can truly have one without the others. If
you are going to trust and respect your child's timetable, ability and
desire to learn math and how to read, I cannot fathom how you wouldn't also
trust her timetable, ability and desire to learn to be a good human being
(unpunishing) and sensible consumer of entertainment and food
(uncontrolling).
Color me simple, but... this seems simple in concept to me.
Pam
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/26/2002 5:33:56 PM, pamhartley@... writes:
<< Color me simple, but... this seems simple in concept to me. >>
Thanks for the input, Pam. I agree wholeheartedly. Kimme
<< Color me simple, but... this seems simple in concept to me. >>
Thanks for the input, Pam. I agree wholeheartedly. Kimme