trusting children
[email protected]
The whole premise of a child lying about being tired (Myranda's response to
Sandra's garage sale, mean Mom scenario) is really, really bugging me.
How would you decide as a parent when your child is truly tired or simply
manipulating you? UGH!
If you trust your child from the beginning, they have no need to lie....no
need to "manipulate" because they know that the adults are going to heed
their requests and fulfill their needs.
A parent that has decided a child is lying about being tired (or hungry or
anything else) is really needing some help imo.
I have a couple of things floating around in my brain.
One relates to the assumption that most parent's are not going to make
harmful choices.
I sat at Sierra's gymnastic lesson yesterday. I can't STAND this particular
teacher, but it was only a make up lesson, not her regular coach and she
wanted to go.
The teacher makes 3 and 4 year olds get in line, name letters of the alphabet
etc.... all in the gymnastics class and gives them time out if they don't do
as they're told.
All the parents applaud the whole sick class, probably feeling their little
darlings are being prepared for school better (well sure, start sucking their
ability to think for themselves even sooner) but I can hardly stand to sit
there.
First of all, most 3 and 4 year olds don't need to take any kind of class to
enjoy tumbling.
And then, to add insult to injury, the parents berate their own children when
they cry after being put in time out.
Sick, sick, sick. If it were up to me, I'd never, ever go back. But Sierra
seems oblivious because SHE is always doing exactly as the teacher says,
loves it.
As I sit there, I see toddlers strapped into strollers even against their
will.
I am the ONLY Mom that will follow her toddler around, even walking outside
for long periods of time to splash in puddles or find rocks.
I hear scoldings and withholding of desired items, all for a damn class that
is supposed to be FUN!! So much for most parents not making harmful choices.
We had a problem today within our support group in which a boy was name
calling a lot and the other kids asked him to please go away until he could
stop.
It ended up with the Mother feeling defensive, the child being in denial
about what he had done and the unschooling kids scratching their heads trying
to figure out how to deal with people like this.
I see so much destructive behavior, even among homeschooling families.
Myranda's view that most parent's don't make harmful choices does not hold
water.
Having been involved in homeschooling for 15 years? How is it possible to not
see this?
In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I believe you are younger than
I Myranda.
Just how is it possible that you have been heavily involved in homeschooling
before ever having children and while you were in HS?
Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuz involvement and awareness are
two different things.
I don't see how most people are going to be heavily involved unless they are
actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.
Ren
Sandra's garage sale, mean Mom scenario) is really, really bugging me.
How would you decide as a parent when your child is truly tired or simply
manipulating you? UGH!
If you trust your child from the beginning, they have no need to lie....no
need to "manipulate" because they know that the adults are going to heed
their requests and fulfill their needs.
A parent that has decided a child is lying about being tired (or hungry or
anything else) is really needing some help imo.
I have a couple of things floating around in my brain.
One relates to the assumption that most parent's are not going to make
harmful choices.
I sat at Sierra's gymnastic lesson yesterday. I can't STAND this particular
teacher, but it was only a make up lesson, not her regular coach and she
wanted to go.
The teacher makes 3 and 4 year olds get in line, name letters of the alphabet
etc.... all in the gymnastics class and gives them time out if they don't do
as they're told.
All the parents applaud the whole sick class, probably feeling their little
darlings are being prepared for school better (well sure, start sucking their
ability to think for themselves even sooner) but I can hardly stand to sit
there.
First of all, most 3 and 4 year olds don't need to take any kind of class to
enjoy tumbling.
And then, to add insult to injury, the parents berate their own children when
they cry after being put in time out.
Sick, sick, sick. If it were up to me, I'd never, ever go back. But Sierra
seems oblivious because SHE is always doing exactly as the teacher says,
loves it.
As I sit there, I see toddlers strapped into strollers even against their
will.
I am the ONLY Mom that will follow her toddler around, even walking outside
for long periods of time to splash in puddles or find rocks.
I hear scoldings and withholding of desired items, all for a damn class that
is supposed to be FUN!! So much for most parents not making harmful choices.
We had a problem today within our support group in which a boy was name
calling a lot and the other kids asked him to please go away until he could
stop.
It ended up with the Mother feeling defensive, the child being in denial
about what he had done and the unschooling kids scratching their heads trying
to figure out how to deal with people like this.
I see so much destructive behavior, even among homeschooling families.
Myranda's view that most parent's don't make harmful choices does not hold
water.
Having been involved in homeschooling for 15 years? How is it possible to not
see this?
In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I believe you are younger than
I Myranda.
Just how is it possible that you have been heavily involved in homeschooling
before ever having children and while you were in HS?
Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuz involvement and awareness are
two different things.
I don't see how most people are going to be heavily involved unless they are
actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.
Ren
Myranda
Having been involved in homeschooling for 15 years? How is it possible to not
see this?
** Like I said, maybe I just haven't known the same type of people. My boys have been in gymnastics, basketball, art, music, and PE classes at places like YMCA's a rec centers. I've never heard or seen parents like you mentioned in Sierra's class. One, maybe every now and then, but no where near everyone!
In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I believe you are younger than
I Myranda.
** Yup. I "graduated" in 93.
Just how is it possible that you have been heavily involved in homeschooling
before ever having children and while you were in HS?
** Because I was homeschooled. From the age of 8, I was helping and meeting with everyone and their brother to make changes in the laws in AL, GA, and TN. From the age of 10, I was doing research, writing and then tracking which politicians had which views of homeschooling, writing papers and reports about homeschooling, and anything else my parents decided to jump into to further the cause.
Myranda
Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuz involvement and awareness are
two different things.
I don't see how most people are going to be heavily involved unless they are
actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
see this?
** Like I said, maybe I just haven't known the same type of people. My boys have been in gymnastics, basketball, art, music, and PE classes at places like YMCA's a rec centers. I've never heard or seen parents like you mentioned in Sierra's class. One, maybe every now and then, but no where near everyone!
In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I believe you are younger than
I Myranda.
** Yup. I "graduated" in 93.
Just how is it possible that you have been heavily involved in homeschooling
before ever having children and while you were in HS?
** Because I was homeschooled. From the age of 8, I was helping and meeting with everyone and their brother to make changes in the laws in AL, GA, and TN. From the age of 10, I was doing research, writing and then tracking which politicians had which views of homeschooling, writing papers and reports about homeschooling, and anything else my parents decided to jump into to further the cause.
Myranda
Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuz involvement and awareness are
two different things.
I don't see how most people are going to be heavily involved unless they are
actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: starsuncloud@...<<The whole premise of a child lying about being tired (Myranda's response
to Sandra's garage sale, mean Mom scenario) is really, really bugging me.
How would you decide as a parent when your child is truly tired or simply
manipulating you? UGH! If you trust your child from the beginning, they have
no need to lie....no need to "manipulate" because they know that the adults
are going to heed their requests and fulfill their needs. A parent that has
decided a child is lying about being tired (or hungry or anything else) is
really needing some help imo.>>
Yeah this one gets me too. I had on Dr. Phil today while the baby was
napping and I was trying to catch up on my e-mail. I usually like what he
says but today was different. I never heard his views on children and I
didn't like what I heard. He was talking about discipline and taking things
away from kids when they are "bad." The one good thing I heard was him
trying to tell parents that spanking doesn't work. But I digress. He
actually said that children have a dark side and will manipulate and conive
to get their way. He was talking about time outs and this one couple said
their child wouldn't stay in a time out. Dr. Phil asked how big the child
was and why couldn't the parent make then stay there? They said the kid
would scream the whole time. Dr. Phil said to force them to stay there and
then when they calmed down, inform them that their time out was now
starting. The parents said he would just start up again. Now this is the
worst part. Dr. Phil said he's actually had kids that threw up and said they
were choking and dying while being made to stay there, just to ignore it and
be consistent. I had to turn off the TV. Don't think I can stomach to listen
to him again.
<<Myranda's view that most parent's don't make harmful choices does not hold
water. Having been involved in homeschooling for 15 years? How is it
possible to not see this? In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I
believe you are younger than I Myranda. Just how is it possible that you
have been heavily involved in homeschooling before ever having children and
while you were in HS? Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuz
involvement and awareness are two different things. I don't see how most
people are going to be heavily involved unless they are
actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.>>
I think a lot of parents make harmful choices just out of ignorance as to
other ways and also because how they have been raised. I know it was like
that with me. I can't say most or all or even halfd because I just don't
know. I just wish I had someone like the people on this list when I was
raising my first. Whether it friends or just someone saying something in a
store. Maybe I would have come to a realization sooner.
And I was also wondering about the whole 15 year thing. Isn't Myranda one of
the youngest if not the youngest on the list?
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.
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Deborah Lewis
***He actually said that children have a dark side ***
Luke....come to the dark side...
Deb L
Luke....come to the dark side...
Deb L
Karin
Here I go and just mention Dr. Phil and you bring it up, too!
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said I didn't agree with his philosophy
about everything. I had a problem with the dark side thing and how he said
parents have to stick to their guns, find the kids "currency", in other
words, find some other means of control over their kids instead of spanking.
Well, at least he discouraged spanking - one good thing.
Karin
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said I didn't agree with his philosophy
about everything. I had a problem with the dark side thing and how he said
parents have to stick to their guns, find the kids "currency", in other
words, find some other means of control over their kids instead of spanking.
Well, at least he discouraged spanking - one good thing.
Karin
>things
>
>
> Yeah this one gets me too. I had on Dr. Phil today while the baby was
> napping and I was trying to catch up on my e-mail. I usually like what he
> says but today was different. I never heard his views on children and I
> didn't like what I heard. He was talking about discipline and taking
> away from kids when they are "bad." The one good thing I heard was himconive
> trying to tell parents that spanking doesn't work. But I digress. He
> actually said that children have a dark side and will manipulate and
> to get their way. He was talking about time outs and this one couple saidthey
> their child wouldn't stay in a time out. Dr. Phil asked how big the child
> was and why couldn't the parent make then stay there? They said the kid
> would scream the whole time. Dr. Phil said to force them to stay there and
> then when they calmed down, inform them that their time out was now
> starting. The parents said he would just start up again. Now this is the
> worst part. Dr. Phil said he's actually had kids that threw up and said
> were choking and dying while being made to stay there, just to ignore itand
> be consistent. I had to turn off the TV. Don't think I can stomach tolisten
> to him again.hold
>
>
>
>
> <<Myranda's view that most parent's don't make harmful choices does not
> water. Having been involved in homeschooling for 15 years? How is itand
> possible to not see this? In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I
> believe you are younger than I Myranda. Just how is it possible that you
> have been heavily involved in homeschooling before ever having children
> while you were in HS? Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuzof
> involvement and awareness are two different things. I don't see how most
> people are going to be heavily involved unless they are
> actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.>>
>
>
>
> I think a lot of parents make harmful choices just out of ignorance as to
> other ways and also because how they have been raised. I know it was like
> that with me. I can't say most or all or even halfd because I just don't
> know. I just wish I had someone like the people on this list when I was
> raising my first. Whether it friends or just someone saying something in a
> store. Maybe I would have come to a realization sooner.
>
> And I was also wondering about the whole 15 year thing. Isn't Myranda one
> the youngest if not the youngest on the list?the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
>
>
> Mary B
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.
> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>email to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/23/02 3:27:00 PM Central Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
than me as well. If she isn't, she sure seems like it. 15 years ago, I was a
sophomore in HS. I knew about hsing as well. I thought hsed kids were the
weird family down the road who never let their kids play with the rest of us,
who didn't celebrate traditional holidays, shunned Halloween to the point of
lecturing any child brave enough to ring their bell. And I certainly wasn't
involved in political hsing battles then either. But hey, maybe she was
really into it even then, who are we to not give her the benefit of the
doubt? <eg>
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> Myranda's view that most parent's don't make harmful choices does not holdI was going to say something like this too, cause I think Myranda is younger
> water.
> Having been involved in homeschooling for 15 years? How is it possible to
> not
> see this?
> In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I believe you are younger
> than
> I Myranda.
> Just how is it possible that you have been heavily involved in
> homeschooling
> before ever having children and while you were in HS?
> Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuz involvement and awareness
> are
> two different things.
> I don't see how most people are going to be heavily involved unless they
> are
> actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.
>
>
> Ren
>
than me as well. If she isn't, she sure seems like it. 15 years ago, I was a
sophomore in HS. I knew about hsing as well. I thought hsed kids were the
weird family down the road who never let their kids play with the rest of us,
who didn't celebrate traditional holidays, shunned Halloween to the point of
lecturing any child brave enough to ring their bell. And I certainly wasn't
involved in political hsing battles then either. But hey, maybe she was
really into it even then, who are we to not give her the benefit of the
doubt? <eg>
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/23/02 3:46:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
myrandab@... writes:
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
myrandab@... writes:
> .At ten, really? Wow! I am really impressed.
>
> Just how is it possible that you have been heavily involved in
> homeschooling
> before ever having children and while you were in HS?
>
> ** Because I was homeschooled. From the age of 8, I was helping and
> meeting with everyone and their brother to make changes in the laws in AL,
> GA, and TN. From the age of 10, I was doing research, writing and then
> tracking which politicians had which views of homeschooling, writing papers
> and reports about homeschooling, and anything else my parents decided to
> jump into to further the cause.
> Myranda
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: Deborah Lewis <ddzimlew@...><<He actually said that children have a dark side ***
Luke....come to the dark side...>>
LOL!!!! Deb you are too funny!! I actually read it with that voice of James
Earl Jones in my head!
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp
Pam Hartley
----------
woman drifted onto the stage at the costume competition. She purred, "I am
the Dark Side. I seduced Darth Vader..."
Pam
>From: [email protected]In my mis-spent youth at a science fiction convention a scantily-clad slinky
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2536
>Date: Wed, Oct 23, 2002, 6:25 PM
>
> ***He actually said that children have a dark side ***
>
> Luke....come to the dark side...
woman drifted onto the stage at the costume competition. She purred, "I am
the Dark Side. I seduced Darth Vader..."
Pam
Kelli Traaseth
Oh Boy!
This is why I've avoided watching him, I was a little concerned that he might be like that? Dang! He is honest, but I think, again, he doesn't know-all and isn't the-end-all on everything!!
Now, since he's on primetime TV, tons of people will jump to the conclusion that he is right!
Can you imagine, making a child sit there when they are throwing up???? That's where common sense and compassion is totally absent. <sad> He's totally forcing them into their narrow mind set! Yuck!
OK, I'm calm now.
Kelli
Mary Bianco <mummyone24@...> wrote:>From: starsuncloud@...
<<The whole premise of a child lying about being tired (Myranda's response
to Sandra's garage sale, mean Mom scenario) is really, really bugging me.
How would you decide as a parent when your child is truly tired or simply
manipulating you? UGH! If you trust your child from the beginning, they have
no need to lie....no need to "manipulate" because they know that the adults
are going to heed their requests and fulfill their needs. A parent that has
decided a child is lying about being tired (or hungry or anything else) is
really needing some help imo.>>
Yeah this one gets me too. I had on Dr. Phil today while the baby was
napping and I was trying to catch up on my e-mail. I usually like what he
says but today was different. I never heard his views on children and I
didn't like what I heard. He was talking about discipline and taking things
away from kids when they are "bad." The one good thing I heard was him
trying to tell parents that spanking doesn't work. But I digress. He
actually said that children have a dark side and will manipulate and conive
to get their way. He was talking about time outs and this one couple said
their child wouldn't stay in a time out. Dr. Phil asked how big the child
was and why couldn't the parent make then stay there? They said the kid
would scream the whole time. Dr. Phil said to force them to stay there and
then when they calmed down, inform them that their time out was now
starting. The parents said he would just start up again. Now this is the
worst part. Dr. Phil said he's actually had kids that threw up and said they
were choking and dying while being made to stay there, just to ignore it and
be consistent. I had to turn off the TV. Don't think I can stomach to listen
to him again.
<<Myranda's view that most parent's don't make harmful choices does not hold
water. Having been involved in homeschooling for 15 years? How is it
possible to not see this? In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I
believe you are younger than I Myranda. Just how is it possible that you
have been heavily involved in homeschooling before ever having children and
while you were in HS? Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuz
involvement and awareness are two different things. I don't see how most
people are going to be heavily involved unless they are
actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.>>
I think a lot of parents make harmful choices just out of ignorance as to
other ways and also because how they have been raised. I know it was like
that with me. I can't say most or all or even halfd because I just don't
know. I just wish I had someone like the people on this list when I was
raising my first. Whether it friends or just someone saying something in a
store. Maybe I would have come to a realization sooner.
And I was also wondering about the whole 15 year thing. Isn't Myranda one of
the youngest if not the youngest on the list?
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is why I've avoided watching him, I was a little concerned that he might be like that? Dang! He is honest, but I think, again, he doesn't know-all and isn't the-end-all on everything!!
Now, since he's on primetime TV, tons of people will jump to the conclusion that he is right!
Can you imagine, making a child sit there when they are throwing up???? That's where common sense and compassion is totally absent. <sad> He's totally forcing them into their narrow mind set! Yuck!
OK, I'm calm now.
Kelli
Mary Bianco <mummyone24@...> wrote:>From: starsuncloud@...
<<The whole premise of a child lying about being tired (Myranda's response
to Sandra's garage sale, mean Mom scenario) is really, really bugging me.
How would you decide as a parent when your child is truly tired or simply
manipulating you? UGH! If you trust your child from the beginning, they have
no need to lie....no need to "manipulate" because they know that the adults
are going to heed their requests and fulfill their needs. A parent that has
decided a child is lying about being tired (or hungry or anything else) is
really needing some help imo.>>
Yeah this one gets me too. I had on Dr. Phil today while the baby was
napping and I was trying to catch up on my e-mail. I usually like what he
says but today was different. I never heard his views on children and I
didn't like what I heard. He was talking about discipline and taking things
away from kids when they are "bad." The one good thing I heard was him
trying to tell parents that spanking doesn't work. But I digress. He
actually said that children have a dark side and will manipulate and conive
to get their way. He was talking about time outs and this one couple said
their child wouldn't stay in a time out. Dr. Phil asked how big the child
was and why couldn't the parent make then stay there? They said the kid
would scream the whole time. Dr. Phil said to force them to stay there and
then when they calmed down, inform them that their time out was now
starting. The parents said he would just start up again. Now this is the
worst part. Dr. Phil said he's actually had kids that threw up and said they
were choking and dying while being made to stay there, just to ignore it and
be consistent. I had to turn off the TV. Don't think I can stomach to listen
to him again.
<<Myranda's view that most parent's don't make harmful choices does not hold
water. Having been involved in homeschooling for 15 years? How is it
possible to not see this? In 1987 I was graduating from High School. And I
believe you are younger than I Myranda. Just how is it possible that you
have been heavily involved in homeschooling before ever having children and
while you were in HS? Or were you simply aware of it back then? 'Cuz
involvement and awareness are two different things. I don't see how most
people are going to be heavily involved unless they are
actually homeschooling, although there are rare exceptions.>>
I think a lot of parents make harmful choices just out of ignorance as to
other ways and also because how they have been raised. I know it was like
that with me. I can't say most or all or even halfd because I just don't
know. I just wish I had someone like the people on this list when I was
raising my first. Whether it friends or just someone saying something in a
store. Maybe I would have come to a realization sooner.
And I was also wondering about the whole 15 year thing. Isn't Myranda one of
the youngest if not the youngest on the list?
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Internet access plans that fit your lifestyle -- join MSN.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Don't be, I hated it! Sure did count for a lot of grades, though!
Myranda
From: Dnowens@...
At ten, really? Wow! I am really impressed.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
From: Dnowens@...
At ten, really? Wow! I am really impressed.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]