Thad Martin

hi,

i was wondering if they had tested you for the rubella titer (which would
mean you had contracted the disease and were immune) early in your
pregnancy? we lived in ca. when i first got pregnant and it was mandated
that in early pregnancies women should be tested for rubella titer because
of the high risk rubella poses to the baby especially during the first 5
months. a friend of mine's sister (who was a nurse at the time she got
pregnant), contracted rubella very early in her pregnancy and it caused
severe brain and neurological damage. her baby was born with, i believe,
less than 1/2 her brain developed. it was very sad.

i also read the booked you mentioned (among others) when we where looking
into the effects of vaccines. in may '97 when my son was 20 months i came
down with still's disease (an autoimmune disease of the connective tissues
- stillsdisease.org) and some of the doctors tossed around the idea that it
may possibly be vaccine related (the mmr vaccine is know to have the side
effect of rheumatoid (sp) arthritis, the closest cousin to still's disease)
though that would be impossible to prove. i was vaccinated in march '89
for mmr ( another ca. state law to attend public institutions) and
contracted rubella in september '92 and tested positive for the titer in
feb '95.

i know from my experience how hard it is to raise kids especially
homeschool when someone has a chronic illness. i can't imagine how hard it
would be having a child with a chronic illness and what an emotional toll
that takes on you and your family. good luck with the search for answers.

best wishes
susan



Robin Leuenberger wrote:

> From: Nest4Robin@... (Robin Leuenberger)
>
> To those that are interested,
> ����������I had to write and share something I
> found. At David Wolfe's lecture I attended in South Bend, IN earlier
> this month, I bought the book Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and
> Effective? By Neil Z. Miller. Under the heading of Rubella it states;
> ����������"Rubella is a contagious disease which is
> usually so mild it often escapes detection. Symptoms include a runny
> nose, sore throat, and slight fever (rarely above 100 degrees)...
> Rubella is a nonthreatening disease when contracted by children.
> Symptoms rarely last more than two to three days. However, if a pregnant
> woman develops the disease during her first timester, her baby may be
> born with birth defects. These include impaired vision and hearing, limb
> defects, mental retardation, and heart malformations...
> Rubella is a harmless disease in childhood, and it confers natural
> immunity to those who contract it so they are ulikely to experience a
> recurrence as adults. Today, because rubella vaccinations are routinely
> given to children, most women never acquire natural immunity. If their
> vaccine-induced immunity wears off, the threat of contracting rubella
> during their childbearing years should actually increase...
> In two separate scientific studies, the new rubella vaccine introduced
> in 1979 was found to be the cause of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (also
> known as the Epstein-Barr Virus, or the "Yuppie" disease), an
> immunological disorder first reported in the U.S. in 1982. Given to
> children, the vaccine can linger in their system for years and can be
> passed to adults through casual contact..."
> ����������Now here's my story in regards to this, I
> have a daughter with Noonan Syndrome see; http://www.noonansyndrome.org
> to find out more about it. It escapes us and the medical community as to
> the cause of this particular syndrome. In reading the above book and the
> information I quoted here, I would like to tell my story and see if you
> can see a connection.
> ����������When I became pregnant with Rebecca we had
> just move to Lansing, MI. I went to a clinic for testing to see if I was
> indeed pregnant, but the test came back negative. Therefore, I went home
> thinking I wasn't pregnant, but I was feeling aweful and I was dealing
> with horrible morning sickness. I re-visited the clinic for testing and
> once again the test came back negative. It was then suggested instead of
> doing a urine test that I had a blood test done. The blood test came
> back postive and I began to search for a OBGYN.
> ����������Once found, I went regularly to my visits,
> as I felt so badly all of the time. Like stated above I constantly ran
> low- grade fevers, I had a nasty sinus infection, sore throat, etc. It
> was funny that the doctor could never come up with an official due date
> for me either, it kept changing and he gave me no answers for my fevers.
> All I remember from that pregnancy is how miserable I was and why I
> couldn't get rid of the fevers or the sinus difficultly.
> ������������When Becca was born it was very
> difficult and I won't go into that whole experience here, except to say
> that right away we knew that there was a problem and there was a lot to
> deal with. Eventually, Rebecca was diagnosed with Noonan Syndrome. So
> here I am dealing with all this and I'm totally wiped out, tired all of
> the time! I kept going back to the doctor trying to find out what was
> wrong with me to no avail. I had a bunch of tests done, but the only
> thing that they found was I had had the Epstein-Barr Virus and that I
> just must have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. At the time, I just had to
> learn to deal with it and eventually over the years I changed my diet,
> etc. to help me to overcome all the physical problems that I was
> experiencing.
> ����������Needless to say, when I was reading this
> section on Rubella in Neil Millers book, all the symptoms sounded like
> me and what I went through during that time in my life. I wonder now if
> I didn't have rubella. Rebecca certainly has the impairments mentioned
> above to varying degrees, that result from a child born to a mother that
> contracted rubella during her first trimester of pregnancy.
> ����������I'm also wondering how many moms of NS
> kids had the rubella vaccines when they were younger and if many of them
> experianced similar symptoms to what I did during their pregnancies? It
> may explain a lot if the rubella vaccines are the culprit or part of the
> problem.
> ����������I would appreciate any discussion and
> thoughts on the above.
> � � Thank you!
> ����������Robin
>
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
> Robin's Nest http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/index.html
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
> Suggested Prayers for B'nai Noah:
> http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/prayers.html
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected])

To those that are interested,
����������I had to write and share something I
found. At David Wolfe's lecture I attended in South Bend, IN earlier
this month, I bought the book Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and
Effective? By Neil Z. Miller. Under the heading of Rubella it states;
����������"Rubella is a contagious disease which is
usually so mild it often escapes detection. Symptoms include a runny
nose, sore throat, and slight fever (rarely above 100 degrees)...
Rubella is a nonthreatening disease when contracted by children.
Symptoms rarely last more than two to three days. However, if a pregnant
woman develops the disease during her first timester, her baby may be
born with birth defects. These include impaired vision and hearing, limb
defects, mental retardation, and heart malformations...
Rubella is a harmless disease in childhood, and it confers natural
immunity to those who contract it so they are ulikely to experience a
recurrence as adults. Today, because rubella vaccinations are routinely
given to children, most women never acquire natural immunity. If their
vaccine-induced immunity wears off, the threat of contracting rubella
during their childbearing years should actually increase...
In two separate scientific studies, the new rubella vaccine introduced
in 1979 was found to be the cause of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (also
known as the Epstein-Barr Virus, or the "Yuppie" disease), an
immunological disorder first reported in the U.S. in 1982. Given to
children, the vaccine can linger in their system for years and can be
passed to adults through casual contact..."
����������Now here's my story in regards to this, I
have a daughter with Noonan Syndrome see; http://www.noonansyndrome.org
to find out more about it. It escapes us and the medical community as to
the cause of this particular syndrome. In reading the above book and the
information I quoted here, I would like to tell my story and see if you
can see a connection.
����������When I became pregnant with Rebecca we had
just move to Lansing, MI. I went to a clinic for testing to see if I was
indeed pregnant, but the test came back negative. Therefore, I went home
thinking I wasn't pregnant, but I was feeling aweful and I was dealing
with horrible morning sickness. I re-visited the clinic for testing and
once again the test came back negative. It was then suggested instead of
doing a urine test that I had a blood test done. The blood test came
back postive and I began to search for a OBGYN.
����������Once found, I went regularly to my visits,
as I felt so badly all of the time. Like stated above I constantly ran
low- grade fevers, I had a nasty sinus infection, sore throat, etc. It
was funny that the doctor could never come up with an official due date
for me either, it kept changing and he gave me no answers for my fevers.
All I remember from that pregnancy is how miserable I was and why I
couldn't get rid of the fevers or the sinus difficultly.
������������When Becca was born it was very
difficult and I won't go into that whole experience here, except to say
that right away we knew that there was a problem and there was a lot to
deal with. Eventually, Rebecca was diagnosed with Noonan Syndrome. So
here I am dealing with all this and I'm totally wiped out, tired all of
the time! I kept going back to the doctor trying to find out what was
wrong with me to no avail. I had a bunch of tests done, but the only
thing that they found was I had had the Epstein-Barr Virus and that I
just must have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. At the time, I just had to
learn to deal with it and eventually over the years I changed my diet,
etc. to help me to overcome all the physical problems that I was
experiencing.
����������Needless to say, when I was reading this
section on Rubella in Neil Millers book, all the symptoms sounded like
me and what I went through during that time in my life. I wonder now if
I didn't have rubella. Rebecca certainly has the impairments mentioned
above to varying degrees, that result from a child born to a mother that
contracted rubella during her first trimester of pregnancy.
����������I'm also wondering how many moms of NS
kids had the rubella vaccines when they were younger and if many of them
experianced similar symptoms to what I did during their pregnancies? It
may explain a lot if the rubella vaccines are the culprit or part of the
problem.
����������I would appreciate any discussion and
thoughts on the above.
� � Thank you!
����������Robin

$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
Robin's Nest http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/index.html
$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
Suggested Prayers for B'nai Noah:
http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/prayers.html
$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$

Lynda

I think the worse part of the "you must vaccine" mentality is that they
make sure folks don't know that they have options. For instance, in CA you
do NOT have to vaccinate. They prefer that you do and they will not inform
you that you simply have to fill out a blue slip that says you don't want
to. Along with the blue slip comes a sermon on how if there is an outbreak
of whatever, your child will be sent home. What I thought was a hoot was
when they gave that speach to folks that refused the Hep B. Hep B is NOT
on the list of air born contagions and therefore is not one you send folks
home because they might catch it if they aren't vaccinated. You send the
ill child home until they have a medical clearance. But schools and school
nurses didn't seem to have a clue.

Lynda

----------

hi,

i was wondering if they had tested you for the rubella titer (which would
mean you had contracted the disease and were immune) early in your
pregnancy? we lived in ca. when i first got pregnant and it was mandated
that in early pregnancies women should be tested for rubella titer because
of the high risk rubella poses to the baby especially during the first 5
months. a friend of mine's sister (who was a nurse at the time she got
pregnant), contracted rubella very early in her pregnancy and it caused
severe brain and neurological damage. her baby was born with, i believe,
less than 1/2 her brain developed. it was very sad.

i also read the booked you mentioned (among others) when we where looking
into the effects of vaccines. in may '97 when my son was 20 months i came
down with still's disease (an autoimmune disease of the connective tissues
- stillsdisease.org) and some of the doctors tossed around the idea that it
may possibly be vaccine related (the mmr vaccine is know to have the side
effect of rheumatoid (sp) arthritis, the closest cousin to still's disease)
though that would be impossible to prove. i was vaccinated in march '89
for mmr ( another ca. state law to attend public institutions) and
contracted rubella in september '92 and tested positive for the titer in
feb '95.

i know from my experience how hard it is to raise kids especially
homeschool when someone has a chronic illness. i can't imagine how hard it
would be having a child with a chronic illness and what an emotional toll
that takes on you and your family. good luck with the search for answers.

best wishes
susan

Thad Martin

hi,

in 1989 when i entered the uc system i was told i had to be vaccined or have
proof of recent vaccination or i would not be allowed to attend.

-susan.

Lynda wrote:

> From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
>
> I think the worse part of the "you must vaccine" mentality is that they
> make sure folks don't know that they have options. For instance, in CA you
> do NOT have to vaccinate. They prefer that you do and they will not inform
> you that you simply have to fill out a blue slip that says you don't want
> to. Along with the blue slip comes a sermon on how if there is an outbreak
> of whatever, your child will be sent home. What I thought was a hoot was
> when they gave that speach to folks that refused the Hep B. Hep B is NOT
> on the list of air born contagions and therefore is not one you send folks
> home because they might catch it if they aren't vaccinated. You send the
> ill child home until they have a medical clearance. But schools and school
> nurses didn't seem to have a clue.
>
> Lynda
>
> ----------
>
> hi,
>
> i was wondering if they had tested you for the rubella titer (which would
> mean you had contracted the disease and were immune) early in your
> pregnancy? we lived in ca. when i first got pregnant and it was mandated
> that in early pregnancies women should be tested for rubella titer because
> of the high risk rubella poses to the baby especially during the first 5
> months. a friend of mine's sister (who was a nurse at the time she got
> pregnant), contracted rubella very early in her pregnancy and it caused
> severe brain and neurological damage. her baby was born with, i believe,
> less than 1/2 her brain developed. it was very sad.
>
> i also read the booked you mentioned (among others) when we where looking
> into the effects of vaccines. in may '97 when my son was 20 months i came
> down with still's disease (an autoimmune disease of the connective tissues
> - stillsdisease.org) and some of the doctors tossed around the idea that it
> may possibly be vaccine related (the mmr vaccine is know to have the side
> effect of rheumatoid (sp) arthritis, the closest cousin to still's disease)
> though that would be impossible to prove. i was vaccinated in march '89
> for mmr ( another ca. state law to attend public institutions) and
> contracted rubella in september '92 and tested positive for the titer in
> feb '95.
>
> i know from my experience how hard it is to raise kids especially
> homeschool when someone has a chronic illness. i can't imagine how hard it
> would be having a child with a chronic illness and what an emotional toll
> that takes on you and your family. good luck with the search for answers.
>
> best wishes
> susan
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

Lynda

when you went in for your first pre-natal they would have asked if you had
the shot and then wouldn't have checked the blood. This is where the big
concern comes in because, just like the Hep B/A, they have no idea how long
the vaccine lasts. The same goes for the whooping cough. There was a
major outbreak last year and it went roaring through ps middle and high
schools with over 90% of the kids getting having been vaccinated against
it.

Lynda

----------
> Susan,
> I have no idea. My daughter with NS is 13 now and we've had so
> much testing done that I couldn't tell you one from the other anymore.
> All I know is when I was reading Neil Miller's book, it was like a light
> bulb went off for the first time since she was born. I don't recall the
> doctors ever saying anything about rubella, so I doubt the titer was
> done. My mother did say I had the vaccine as a child.
> It has been difficult in the education dept. with Rebecca. She is
> the reason I started unschooling last year. I suppose I should
> introduce myself, since I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and I'm
> new to the list. I'm Robin from Michigan (I noticed another Robin on
> the list), I have 5 kids, 2, 3, 11, 13, & 18 y/o. I've been home
> schooling for 13 years. My oldest went into the PS in 8th grade and
> graduates this year, thank G-d! Anyhow, Rebecca just couldn't handle
> our school at home style, even with unit studies, etc. and it was major
> fustration around here, so I had to find a new approach and it was
> unschooling. She made a comment to me the other day that she really
> likes reading now that she can read what interests her. I was glad to
> read all your conversations on math when I joined, because she won't
> touch it with a 10 foot pole. Although, now and then I have seen
> evidence from her, on trying to figure out a math problem on her own.
> If I were to compare Rebecca to other kids her age she is definately
> behind, but for herself I think she is doing just fine now. Although,
> my husband and parents makes comments of worry about it every now and
> then, I don't think they have the same confidence that I do. I'm just
> learning to trust her where shes at, thats been a big relief for me and
> her!
> Eventually, I promised Lisa I would do a bio on our homeschooling
> experience from school at home to unschooling. Its just finding the
> time, as I sub at the Post Office besides taking care of my crew.
> You all have a Happy Turkey Day!!
> Robin :-)
>
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
> Robin's Nest http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/index.html
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
> Suggested Prayers for B'nai Noah:
> http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/prayers.html
> $~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

Lynda

they also have the blue form and should have informed you of it. Again,
they won't. If you ever have a child in ps or in college in CA, demand the
form for exemption. Even though most of mine were vaccinated, I still
asked for the form because I don't think it is any of their business <g>

Lynda

----------
> From: Thad Martin <tmartin@...>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Rubella and Noonan Syndrome?
> Date: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 12:50 AM
>
> From: Thad Martin <tmartin@...>
>
> hi,
>
> in 1989 when i entered the uc system i was told i had to be vaccined or
have
> proof of recent vaccination or i would not be allowed to attend.
>
> -susan.
>
> Lynda wrote:
>
> > From: "Lynda" <lurine@...>
> >
> > I think the worse part of the "you must vaccine" mentality is that they
> > make sure folks don't know that they have options. For instance, in CA
you
> > do NOT have to vaccinate. They prefer that you do and they will not
inform
> > you that you simply have to fill out a blue slip that says you don't
want
> > to. Along with the blue slip comes a sermon on how if there is an
outbreak
> > of whatever, your child will be sent home. What I thought was a hoot
was
> > when they gave that speach to folks that refused the Hep B. Hep B is
NOT
> > on the list of air born contagions and therefore is not one you send
folks
> > home because they might catch it if they aren't vaccinated. You send
the
> > ill child home until they have a medical clearance. But schools and
school
> > nurses didn't seem to have a clue.
> >
> > Lynda
> >
> > ----------
> >
> > hi,
> >
> > i was wondering if they had tested you for the rubella titer (which
would
> > mean you had contracted the disease and were immune) early in your
> > pregnancy? we lived in ca. when i first got pregnant and it was
mandated
> > that in early pregnancies women should be tested for rubella titer
because
> > of the high risk rubella poses to the baby especially during the first
5
> > months. a friend of mine's sister (who was a nurse at the time she got
> > pregnant), contracted rubella very early in her pregnancy and it caused
> > severe brain and neurological damage. her baby was born with, i
believe,
> > less than 1/2 her brain developed. it was very sad.
> >
> > i also read the booked you mentioned (among others) when we where
looking
> > into the effects of vaccines. in may '97 when my son was 20 months i
came
> > down with still's disease (an autoimmune disease of the connective
tissues
> > - stillsdisease.org) and some of the doctors tossed around the idea
that it
> > may possibly be vaccine related (the mmr vaccine is know to have the
side
> > effect of rheumatoid (sp) arthritis, the closest cousin to still's
disease)
> > though that would be impossible to prove. i was vaccinated in march
'89
> > for mmr ( another ca. state law to attend public institutions) and
> > contracted rubella in september '92 and tested positive for the titer
in
> > feb '95.
> >
> > i know from my experience how hard it is to raise kids especially
> > homeschool when someone has a chronic illness. i can't imagine how
hard it
> > would be having a child with a chronic illness and what an emotional
toll
> > that takes on you and your family. good luck with the search for
answers.
> >
> > best wishes
> > susan
> >
> > > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> > Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> > Message boards, timely articles, a free newsletter and more!
> Check it all out at: http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected])

<<hi,
i was wondering if they had tested you for the rubella titer (which
would mean you had contracted the disease and were immune) early in your
pregnancy? �>>

Susan,
I have no idea. My daughter with NS is 13 now and we've had so
much testing done that I couldn't tell you one from the other anymore.
All I know is when I was reading Neil Miller's book, it was like a light
bulb went off for the first time since she was born. I don't recall the
doctors ever saying anything about rubella, so I doubt the titer was
done. My mother did say I had the vaccine as a child.
It has been difficult in the education dept. with Rebecca. She is
the reason I started unschooling last year. I suppose I should
introduce myself, since I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and I'm
new to the list. I'm Robin from Michigan (I noticed another Robin on
the list), I have 5 kids, 2, 3, 11, 13, & 18 y/o. I've been home
schooling for 13 years. My oldest went into the PS in 8th grade and
graduates this year, thank G-d! Anyhow, Rebecca just couldn't handle
our school at home style, even with unit studies, etc. and it was major
fustration around here, so I had to find a new approach and it was
unschooling. She made a comment to me the other day that she really
likes reading now that she can read what interests her. I was glad to
read all your conversations on math when I joined, because she won't
touch it with a 10 foot pole. Although, now and then I have seen
evidence from her, on trying to figure out a math problem on her own.
If I were to compare Rebecca to other kids her age she is definately
behind, but for herself I think she is doing just fine now. Although,
my husband and parents makes comments of worry about it every now and
then, I don't think they have the same confidence that I do. I'm just
learning to trust her where shes at, thats been a big relief for me and
her!
Eventually, I promised Lisa I would do a bio on our homeschooling
experience from school at home to unschooling. Its just finding the
time, as I sub at the Post Office besides taking care of my crew.
You all have a Happy Turkey Day!!
Robin :-)

$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
Robin's Nest http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/index.html
$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$
Suggested Prayers for B'nai Noah:
http://www.myfreeoffice.com/leuenberger/prayers.html
$~~~~~~~~~~<O~~****~~O>~~~~~~~~~~$

Joel Hawthorne

Welcome and congratulations on your probably hard won flexibility.

>
> Susan,
> I have no idea. My daughter with NS is 13 now and we've had so
> much testing done that I couldn't tell you one from the other anymore.

<snip>
best wishes
Joel

For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
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