defending children in public
[email protected]
Sandra said in another post ***I scolded a mom at the library for spanking her child.***
Sandra,
How exactly do you approach a situation like this? I have the hardest time in public when I witness other parents being hurtful to their children (not just through spanking but through belittling, saying hurtful things, etc). I'm always hesitant to, as you say, scold the parents because I'm afraid the kid will just get it even more once they get home for "embarassing" their mother, or making her "look bad." Do you think that's possible? That the mother will feel insulted and embarrassed and take it out on her child even more later? It seems I've often heard that caution when it comes to defending children that way.
Still, I want to come up with something to say.
Recently my husband and I were having lunch at a little cafe with 2 of our children. At the table next to us was a father and mother and 2 boys, mabye age 6 and 3. The parents *never stopped* berating the children the entire meal.... it was like a run on criticism of their children for being children, with threats of punishment etc. The father even told his kids that they were so rude they were disturbing the other customers eating around them. It was on the tip of my tongue to call out to him "actually, the children aren't irritating me at all, *you* are!" but I totally chickened out. <sigh>
I pretty much avoid playgrounds at their busiest times because I just can't stand to hear the way most mothers talk to their children, let alone witness spankings and slappings. ("Slides aren't for walking up, they're for sliding down! If you don't listen you'll go in time out mister!" blah blah blah)...
Patti
Sandra,
How exactly do you approach a situation like this? I have the hardest time in public when I witness other parents being hurtful to their children (not just through spanking but through belittling, saying hurtful things, etc). I'm always hesitant to, as you say, scold the parents because I'm afraid the kid will just get it even more once they get home for "embarassing" their mother, or making her "look bad." Do you think that's possible? That the mother will feel insulted and embarrassed and take it out on her child even more later? It seems I've often heard that caution when it comes to defending children that way.
Still, I want to come up with something to say.
Recently my husband and I were having lunch at a little cafe with 2 of our children. At the table next to us was a father and mother and 2 boys, mabye age 6 and 3. The parents *never stopped* berating the children the entire meal.... it was like a run on criticism of their children for being children, with threats of punishment etc. The father even told his kids that they were so rude they were disturbing the other customers eating around them. It was on the tip of my tongue to call out to him "actually, the children aren't irritating me at all, *you* are!" but I totally chickened out. <sigh>
I pretty much avoid playgrounds at their busiest times because I just can't stand to hear the way most mothers talk to their children, let alone witness spankings and slappings. ("Slides aren't for walking up, they're for sliding down! If you don't listen you'll go in time out mister!" blah blah blah)...
Patti
Myranda
** I know this isn't to me, but it is very possible and DOES happen. Please do be nice and non-judgemental sounding if you decide to say something!!!
Myranda
Sandra said in another post ***I scolded a mom at the library for spanking her child.***
Sandra,
How exactly do you approach a situation like this? I have the hardest time in public when I witness other parents being hurtful to their children (not just through spanking but through belittling, saying hurtful things, etc). I'm always hesitant to, as you say, scold the parents because I'm afraid the kid will just get it even more once they get home for "embarassing" their mother, or making her "look bad." Do you think that's possible? That the mother will feel insulted and embarrassed and take it out on her child even more later? It seems I've often heard that caution when it comes to defending children that way.
Still, I want to come up with something to say.
Recently my husband and I were having lunch at a little cafe with 2 of our children. At the table next to us was a father and mother and 2 boys, mabye age 6 and 3. The parents *never stopped* berating the children the entire meal.... it was like a run on criticism of their children for being children, with threats of punishment etc. The father even told his kids that they were so rude they were disturbing the other customers eating around them. It was on the tip of my tongue to call out to him "actually, the children aren't irritating me at all, *you* are!" but I totally chickened out. <sigh>
I pretty much avoid playgrounds at their busiest times because I just can't stand to hear the way most mothers talk to their children, let alone witness spankings and slappings. ("Slides aren't for walking up, they're for sliding down! If you don't listen you'll go in time out mister!" blah blah blah)...
Patti
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Sandra said in another post ***I scolded a mom at the library for spanking her child.***
Sandra,
How exactly do you approach a situation like this? I have the hardest time in public when I witness other parents being hurtful to their children (not just through spanking but through belittling, saying hurtful things, etc). I'm always hesitant to, as you say, scold the parents because I'm afraid the kid will just get it even more once they get home for "embarassing" their mother, or making her "look bad." Do you think that's possible? That the mother will feel insulted and embarrassed and take it out on her child even more later? It seems I've often heard that caution when it comes to defending children that way.
Still, I want to come up with something to say.
Recently my husband and I were having lunch at a little cafe with 2 of our children. At the table next to us was a father and mother and 2 boys, mabye age 6 and 3. The parents *never stopped* berating the children the entire meal.... it was like a run on criticism of their children for being children, with threats of punishment etc. The father even told his kids that they were so rude they were disturbing the other customers eating around them. It was on the tip of my tongue to call out to him "actually, the children aren't irritating me at all, *you* are!" but I totally chickened out. <sigh>
I pretty much avoid playgrounds at their busiest times because I just can't stand to hear the way most mothers talk to their children, let alone witness spankings and slappings. ("Slides aren't for walking up, they're for sliding down! If you don't listen you'll go in time out mister!" blah blah blah)...
Patti
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kimber
<<<> How exactly do you approach a situation like this? I have the hardest time
useless LUMP when I see this stuff going on, I wouldn't mind some advice on
how to and when to say things, too.
If the advice is, "just grow a backbone and do it" <g> I'm okay with that.
Pam>>>>>>>>>>>
A friend and I were shopping at the local Wal-mart in the clothing isles. We looked over, saw an (approx.) 2 y/o standing in the seat part of the cart. So very unsafe. The mother was turned the other direction, looking at a rack of something or other. We rushed over and said, "oh sweetie, please sit down so you don't fall!" The mother looked at us with almost an evil look and said, "I had her standing there to hold these shirts up to her. She is fine." Whoa! We thought we were being completely helpful. Being an x-ray tech, I have seen too many needless fractures in children because the parents were inattentive. Not to mention sometimes, just plain stupid. We saw her again later, the child continuing to be a monkey on the cart, balancing precariously, surely to fall any minute. I don't know if she ever did injure herself, but it made me very nervous.
What to do then? She wasn't 'abusing' the child. Just neglectful or maybe irresponsible.
Kimber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> in public when I witness other parents being hurtful to their children (notThanks, Patti, for asking the question I was about to. :) I feel like such a
> just through spanking but through belittling, saying hurtful things, etc).
> I'm always hesitant to, as you say, scold the parents because I'm afraid
> the kid will just get it even more once they get home for "embarassing"
> their mother, or making her "look bad." Do you think that's possible?
> That the mother will feel insulted and embarrassed and take it out on her
> child even more later? It seems I've often heard that caution when it
> comes to defending children that way.
> Still, I want to come up with something to say.
useless LUMP when I see this stuff going on, I wouldn't mind some advice on
how to and when to say things, too.
If the advice is, "just grow a backbone and do it" <g> I'm okay with that.
Pam>>>>>>>>>>>
A friend and I were shopping at the local Wal-mart in the clothing isles. We looked over, saw an (approx.) 2 y/o standing in the seat part of the cart. So very unsafe. The mother was turned the other direction, looking at a rack of something or other. We rushed over and said, "oh sweetie, please sit down so you don't fall!" The mother looked at us with almost an evil look and said, "I had her standing there to hold these shirts up to her. She is fine." Whoa! We thought we were being completely helpful. Being an x-ray tech, I have seen too many needless fractures in children because the parents were inattentive. Not to mention sometimes, just plain stupid. We saw her again later, the child continuing to be a monkey on the cart, balancing precariously, surely to fall any minute. I don't know if she ever did injure herself, but it made me very nervous.
What to do then? She wasn't 'abusing' the child. Just neglectful or maybe irresponsible.
Kimber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
----------
useless LUMP when I see this stuff going on, I wouldn't mind some advice on
how to and when to say things, too.
If the advice is, "just grow a backbone and do it" <g> I'm okay with that.
Pam
>From: [email protected]Thanks, Patti, for asking the question I was about to. :) I feel like such a
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2532
>Date: Wed, Oct 23, 2002, 10:49 AM
>
> How exactly do you approach a situation like this? I have the hardest time
> in public when I witness other parents being hurtful to their children (not
> just through spanking but through belittling, saying hurtful things, etc).
> I'm always hesitant to, as you say, scold the parents because I'm afraid
> the kid will just get it even more once they get home for "embarassing"
> their mother, or making her "look bad." Do you think that's possible?
> That the mother will feel insulted and embarrassed and take it out on her
> child even more later? It seems I've often heard that caution when it
> comes to defending children that way.
> Still, I want to come up with something to say.
useless LUMP when I see this stuff going on, I wouldn't mind some advice on
how to and when to say things, too.
If the advice is, "just grow a backbone and do it" <g> I'm okay with that.
Pam
Myranda
Wal-Mart employees are required to make the mother have her child sit down, or she can be thrown out of the store. Report it to an employee and have them call a manager!
Myranda
From: Kimber
A friend and I were shopping at the local Wal-mart in the clothing isles. We looked over, saw an (approx.) 2 y/o standing in the seat part of the cart. So very unsafe. The mother was turned the other direction, looking at a rack of something or other. We rushed over and said, "oh sweetie, please sit down so you don't fall!" The mother looked at us with almost an evil look and said, "I had her standing there to hold these shirts up to her. She is fine." Whoa! We thought we were being completely helpful. Being an x-ray tech, I have seen too many needless fractures in children because the parents were inattentive. Not to mention sometimes, just plain stupid. We saw her again later, the child continuing to be a monkey on the cart, balancing precariously, surely to fall any minute. I don't know if she ever did injure herself, but it made me very nervous.
What to do then? She wasn't 'abusing' the child. Just neglectful or maybe irresponsible.
Kimber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
From: Kimber
A friend and I were shopping at the local Wal-mart in the clothing isles. We looked over, saw an (approx.) 2 y/o standing in the seat part of the cart. So very unsafe. The mother was turned the other direction, looking at a rack of something or other. We rushed over and said, "oh sweetie, please sit down so you don't fall!" The mother looked at us with almost an evil look and said, "I had her standing there to hold these shirts up to her. She is fine." Whoa! We thought we were being completely helpful. Being an x-ray tech, I have seen too many needless fractures in children because the parents were inattentive. Not to mention sometimes, just plain stupid. We saw her again later, the child continuing to be a monkey on the cart, balancing precariously, surely to fall any minute. I don't know if she ever did injure herself, but it made me very nervous.
What to do then? She wasn't 'abusing' the child. Just neglectful or maybe irresponsible.
Kimber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kimber
<<<You *could* try intimidating her with your expertise. In a no-nonsense
voice say "Ma'am, I'm an x-ray techinician and a fall from this height
could fracture your daughter's skull. I see ___ kids every year that
fall when their parents aren't looking.">>>
Actually, we did try to impress her with my vast knowledge of fractures but she was definitely not interested.
Kimber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
voice say "Ma'am, I'm an x-ray techinician and a fall from this height
could fracture your daughter's skull. I see ___ kids every year that
fall when their parents aren't looking.">>>
Actually, we did try to impress her with my vast knowledge of fractures but she was definitely not interested.
Kimber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**We rushed over and said, "oh sweetie, please sit down so you don't
fall!" The mother looked at us with almost an evil look and said, "I
had her
standing there to hold these shirts up to her. She is fine." Whoa! We
thought we
were being completely helpful. Being an x-ray tech, I have seen too
many needless
fractures in children because the parents were inattentive.**
You *could* try intimidating her with your expertise. In a no-nonsense
voice say "Ma'am, I'm an x-ray techinician and a fall from this height
could fracture your daughter's skull. I see ___ kids every year that
fall when their parents aren't looking."
(Change my wording to make it scientifically accurate.)
A friend of a friend of mine's kid did have a severe shopping cart fall.
I've just forgotten the details.
Betsy
fall!" The mother looked at us with almost an evil look and said, "I
had her
standing there to hold these shirts up to her. She is fine." Whoa! We
thought we
were being completely helpful. Being an x-ray tech, I have seen too
many needless
fractures in children because the parents were inattentive.**
You *could* try intimidating her with your expertise. In a no-nonsense
voice say "Ma'am, I'm an x-ray techinician and a fall from this height
could fracture your daughter's skull. I see ___ kids every year that
fall when their parents aren't looking."
(Change my wording to make it scientifically accurate.)
A friend of a friend of mine's kid did have a severe shopping cart fall.
I've just forgotten the details.
Betsy
Pam Hartley
----------
Just kidding, I'm sure it was frustrating as anything. The good part is, if
she was educable at all she will have wound down her defensiveness later and
maybe some good came from it in the end. Maybe some other mom overheard you
and now won't put her toddler in that position.
Pam
>From: [email protected]Obviously you didn't haul out your charts and graphs. <g>
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2534
>Date: Wed, Oct 23, 2002, 2:44 PM
>
> <<<You *could* try intimidating her with your expertise. In a no-nonsense
> voice say "Ma'am, I'm an x-ray techinician and a fall from this height
> could fracture your daughter's skull. I see ___ kids every year that
> fall when their parents aren't looking.">>>
>
> Actually, we did try to impress her with my vast knowledge of fractures but
> she was definitely not interested.
Just kidding, I'm sure it was frustrating as anything. The good part is, if
she was educable at all she will have wound down her defensiveness later and
maybe some good came from it in the end. Maybe some other mom overheard you
and now won't put her toddler in that position.
Pam
Samantha Stopple
> Thanks, Patti, for asking the question I was aboutRead Jan Hunt's articles on the naturalchild web site
> to. :) I feel like such a
> useless LUMP when I see this stuff going on, I
> wouldn't mind some advice on
> how to and when to say things, too.
>
> If the advice is, "just grow a backbone and do it"
> <g> I'm okay with that.
she has some suggestions. It's been a while since I
read the articles but at the time I thought her advice
was solid. I still need to get myself a backbone ;)
http://www.naturalchild.org/home/
Samantha
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
[email protected]
On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:47:01 -0500 "Kimber" <snibbor@...>
writes:
strangers, in a nice way. Something like, "You know, I used to let my
daughter stand in the cart like that, and then one time someone bumped
the cart accidentally and she fell right out onto the ground and the
doctor said she had a minor concussion. It was really scary... so of
course I still get really anxious about kids falling out of carts, I
didn't mean to instrude." And then I give a friendly laugh, like yup,
maybe I'm paranoid... but I've seen it work sometimes.
Dar
writes:
> What to do then? She wasn't 'abusing' the child. Just neglectfulI've been known to embellish stories (okay, create) to make a point with
> or maybe irresponsible.
>
strangers, in a nice way. Something like, "You know, I used to let my
daughter stand in the cart like that, and then one time someone bumped
the cart accidentally and she fell right out onto the ground and the
doctor said she had a minor concussion. It was really scary... so of
course I still get really anxious about kids falling out of carts, I
didn't mean to instrude." And then I give a friendly laugh, like yup,
maybe I'm paranoid... but I've seen it work sometimes.
Dar
Kimber
<<<<Some people have more tolerance for monkey antics than others. X-ray techs
see all the worst parts. They don't see all the times the toddler climbed to
the top of the ladder and down again without getting hurt. Surely that
happens more often than the broken bones.
Tuck>>>>>>>
This just made me think of some of the worst fractures I have seen are from the men falling from deer stands (it's that time of year again)....not from children. I will also say that most of the breaks in children (that I saw) were from typical every day goofin' off or those all too common accidents that happen to all. Climbing trees, trampoline falls, fingers shut in the car door, and sports injuries. The few times a toddler was brought in with a broken bone, the parents were just devastated because they felt so bad about not 'being there' to prevent the fall/injury.
<<<People stifle toddlers too much in the name of safety. >>>
I was guilty of that myself with my first. Much more relaxed with my second. Actually, it was not too common for toddlers to come in with broken bones. They are very resilient. Most of the little ones just had a bump on the head....it seems like mine always had a bump/bruise from falling off of something so I guess I wasn't too stifling. :)
Kimber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
see all the worst parts. They don't see all the times the toddler climbed to
the top of the ladder and down again without getting hurt. Surely that
happens more often than the broken bones.
Tuck>>>>>>>
This just made me think of some of the worst fractures I have seen are from the men falling from deer stands (it's that time of year again)....not from children. I will also say that most of the breaks in children (that I saw) were from typical every day goofin' off or those all too common accidents that happen to all. Climbing trees, trampoline falls, fingers shut in the car door, and sports injuries. The few times a toddler was brought in with a broken bone, the parents were just devastated because they felt so bad about not 'being there' to prevent the fall/injury.
<<<People stifle toddlers too much in the name of safety. >>>
I was guilty of that myself with my first. Much more relaxed with my second. Actually, it was not too common for toddlers to come in with broken bones. They are very resilient. Most of the little ones just had a bump on the head....it seems like mine always had a bump/bruise from falling off of something so I guess I wasn't too stifling. :)
Kimber
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/23/2002 2:52:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
snibbor@... writes:
<< We saw her again later, the child continuing to be a monkey on the cart,
balancing precariously, surely to fall any minute. I don't know if she ever
did injure herself, but it made me very nervous.
What to do then? She wasn't 'abusing' the child. Just neglectful or maybe
irresponsible. >>
Some people have more tolerance for monkey antics than others. X-ray techs
see all the worst parts. They don't see all the times the toddler climbed to
the top of the ladder and down again without getting hurt. Surely that
happens more often than the broken bones.
I think you were right to be concerned about her falling, but I would have
watched a moment before I rushed over and "saved" her...perhaps moved close
enough to catch if she did fall, until mom was more attentive. All this time
I wouldn't have drawn attention to myself, perhaps browsing the rack. Then I
would have only not risked offending the mother, but not risked offending the
easily ticked-off toddler who may have been trying a new thing.
People stifle toddlers too much in the name of safety. I find myself here
with no toddlers anymore, *gasping* when I see a little one fall, a rather
grandmotherly thing. I've forgotten altogether how to withhold that gasp and
remain calm and trusting of the child. My perspective is very skewed. I
don't know how that happened in 7 or so short years since I had a 2 yo. I'm
working on it.
I think another perspective is a great thing to try, though.
Tuck
snibbor@... writes:
<< We saw her again later, the child continuing to be a monkey on the cart,
balancing precariously, surely to fall any minute. I don't know if she ever
did injure herself, but it made me very nervous.
What to do then? She wasn't 'abusing' the child. Just neglectful or maybe
irresponsible. >>
Some people have more tolerance for monkey antics than others. X-ray techs
see all the worst parts. They don't see all the times the toddler climbed to
the top of the ladder and down again without getting hurt. Surely that
happens more often than the broken bones.
I think you were right to be concerned about her falling, but I would have
watched a moment before I rushed over and "saved" her...perhaps moved close
enough to catch if she did fall, until mom was more attentive. All this time
I wouldn't have drawn attention to myself, perhaps browsing the rack. Then I
would have only not risked offending the mother, but not risked offending the
easily ticked-off toddler who may have been trying a new thing.
People stifle toddlers too much in the name of safety. I find myself here
with no toddlers anymore, *gasping* when I see a little one fall, a rather
grandmotherly thing. I've forgotten altogether how to withhold that gasp and
remain calm and trusting of the child. My perspective is very skewed. I
don't know how that happened in 7 or so short years since I had a 2 yo. I'm
working on it.
I think another perspective is a great thing to try, though.
Tuck
Tia Leschke
>from the men falling from deer stands (it's that time of year again)....not
> This just made me think of some of the worst fractures I have seen are
from children. I will also say that most of the breaks in children (that I
saw) were from typical every day goofin' off or those all too common
accidents that happen to all. Climbing trees, trampoline falls, fingers
shut in the car door, and sports injuries.
Yep. One of my boys broke his arm just running on the driveway and falling.
It happens.
Tia
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/23/02 11:31:52 AM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:
<< Do you think that's possible? That the mother will feel insulted and
embarrassed and take it out on her child even more later? It seems I've
often heard that caution when it comes to defending children that way. >>
Yes, but not because I was brave, because the mother was stupid.
It doesn't happen in all cases, and in any case in which it DOES happen, I
figure that kid will be leaving home a year or two sooner than she would have
otherwise. Because only if kids get the idea that not all adults believe
what their mom is doing is right and good and necessary will THEY begin to
question.
And those parents, too, seem obviously to assume that all other parents will
agree with them or they wouldn't be hitting their children in front of other
people.
Sandra
<< Do you think that's possible? That the mother will feel insulted and
embarrassed and take it out on her child even more later? It seems I've
often heard that caution when it comes to defending children that way. >>
Yes, but not because I was brave, because the mother was stupid.
It doesn't happen in all cases, and in any case in which it DOES happen, I
figure that kid will be leaving home a year or two sooner than she would have
otherwise. Because only if kids get the idea that not all adults believe
what their mom is doing is right and good and necessary will THEY begin to
question.
And those parents, too, seem obviously to assume that all other parents will
agree with them or they wouldn't be hitting their children in front of other
people.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/23/02 11:38:50 AM, myrandab@... writes:
<< ** I know this isn't to me, but it is very possible and DOES happen.
Please do be nice and non-judgemental sounding if you decide to say
something!!! >>
Myranda, if you're too nice and too non-judgmental you convey absolutely no
information or displeasure whatsoever.
It IS a judgment to think what that mother is doing is wrong.
There isn't a really nice way to say "Hey, too bad you're not smart enough to
be a better parent." And I would never say that, but THAT is the emotion
that causes people to go out on a limb to say to other parents that they are
harming their child and disturbing the peace of and the future of others
around.
Sandra
<< ** I know this isn't to me, but it is very possible and DOES happen.
Please do be nice and non-judgemental sounding if you decide to say
something!!! >>
Myranda, if you're too nice and too non-judgmental you convey absolutely no
information or displeasure whatsoever.
It IS a judgment to think what that mother is doing is wrong.
There isn't a really nice way to say "Hey, too bad you're not smart enough to
be a better parent." And I would never say that, but THAT is the emotion
that causes people to go out on a limb to say to other parents that they are
harming their child and disturbing the peace of and the future of others
around.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/23/02 1:52:33 PM, snibbor@... writes:
<< The mother looked at us with almost an evil look and said, "I had her
standing there to hold these shirts up to her. She is fine." Whoa! >>
I would have called a store manager. He could have at least gotten her to
stand the kid in the deep basket, maybe.
Sandra
<< The mother looked at us with almost an evil look and said, "I had her
standing there to hold these shirts up to her. She is fine." Whoa! >>
I would have called a store manager. He could have at least gotten her to
stand the kid in the deep basket, maybe.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/24/2002 3:12:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
My example of the fox guarding the henhouse. If the child in his "village"
sees NO ONE lifting a finger in opposition or even disagreeing that it's OK,
how will he actually KNOW that it CAN get better? Or that others believe it's
wrong?
I have never approached a total stranger about spanking. I'm really a wimp. I
DO try to make eye-contact and empathize with the child. I've mouthed "I'm
sorry". And then I make eye-contact with the parent---and if looks could
kill.... If I managed to say something, I'd probably go off screaming and
make very little sense. The parent would just think I'm a lunatic.
Kelly
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[email protected] writes:
> It doesn't happen in all cases, and in any case in which it DOES happen, ITa-Daaaa!
> figure that kid will be leaving home a year or two sooner than she would
> have
> otherwise. Because only if kids get the idea that not all adults believe
> what their mom is doing is right and good and necessary will THEY begin to
> question.
My example of the fox guarding the henhouse. If the child in his "village"
sees NO ONE lifting a finger in opposition or even disagreeing that it's OK,
how will he actually KNOW that it CAN get better? Or that others believe it's
wrong?
I have never approached a total stranger about spanking. I'm really a wimp. I
DO try to make eye-contact and empathize with the child. I've mouthed "I'm
sorry". And then I make eye-contact with the parent---and if looks could
kill.... If I managed to say something, I'd probably go off screaming and
make very little sense. The parent would just think I'm a lunatic.
Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/23/02 4:30:01 PM, windystreet@... writes:
<< I've stopped people on a few occasions from harming children, including
one woman who was hitting her child yelling at him "hitting it not ok!"
I was flabbergasted and in a split second I realized that I was probably
never going to see these people again >>
Wouldn't it have been a great fantasy moment (or might make a good cartoon
for changing people's lives) if you could turn big like The Incredible Hulk
and pick her up and slap her while saying in a big monster voice "Hitting Is
Not OKAY!!!!" and she wouldn't really be hurt (that's why it needs to be a
cartoon) and all the little kids who saw it would laugh merrily and no one
who was there that day would ever hit any child again.
But in reality, a little child was being hit by an idiot in real life.
I'm glad you said something. I'm glad the mom stopped.
Sandra
<< I've stopped people on a few occasions from harming children, including
one woman who was hitting her child yelling at him "hitting it not ok!"
I was flabbergasted and in a split second I realized that I was probably
never going to see these people again >>
Wouldn't it have been a great fantasy moment (or might make a good cartoon
for changing people's lives) if you could turn big like The Incredible Hulk
and pick her up and slap her while saying in a big monster voice "Hitting Is
Not OKAY!!!!" and she wouldn't really be hurt (that's why it needs to be a
cartoon) and all the little kids who saw it would laugh merrily and no one
who was there that day would ever hit any child again.
But in reality, a little child was being hit by an idiot in real life.
I'm glad you said something. I'm glad the mom stopped.
Sandra
Ingrid Bauer/Jean-Claude Catry
<< And then I make eye-contact with the parent---and if looks could
kill....
I think we all feel so very sad and often scared for the child and powerless to change the situation, when we see a parent hitting or otherwise hurting their children. It's a very triggering moment! Brings up a lot of personal pain for me too.
I try to remind myself that, just like every child, every adult is doing the best they know how--in that moment with what they are given-- to communicate or meet their needs. Likely they are hurting even more and feeling even less powerless than we are. They are in one of their worst parenting moments (and on some level they likely know it) and don't know a better way!
I think we all know what it's like to be parenting in ways we really wish we never would. I really don't believe glaring, shaming or blaming is ever going to help that parent or that child in that situation, or myself for that matter, except for a few moments of release... Isn't that a little like hitting someone and saying "no hitting"? If we glare or berate, aren't we just practicing the same "i'm right, you're wrong/bad" attitude that that parent is transmitting to the child?
But I definitely want to step in in some situations! And I do. If I can open my heart enough and it's not too threatening, I try address the parent compassionately. Just seeing them in this light can shift the whole situation. For example, in a camping situation where an overwhelmed mother had verbally lashed out and was then ignoring her howling child while she was putting up a tent, I asked the mother if I could help her cause it looked like she had a lot to do. She denied my help, but immediately softened, left the tent and went to comfort her child.
Another time I stopped a father who was hitting his child in a parking lot by shouting "stop hitting that child!". Turns out he was a minister and was hitting his child "calmly" and "for his own good". We had a very long, very cordial conversation in which the little boy peeked out at me from behind his father's legs, and probably heard for the first time that there was someone who believed that love and hitting never go together, that there were ways that are far more conducive to learning how to manage yourself in life, and that Jesus never advocated hitting children.
If I am too triggered to address the parent, I address the child directly. There are two good articles ont his topic at www.naturalchild.org by Jan Hunt under her child advocacy articles called something like "Intervening for a child in a public place".
warmly,
ingrid
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kill....
I think we all feel so very sad and often scared for the child and powerless to change the situation, when we see a parent hitting or otherwise hurting their children. It's a very triggering moment! Brings up a lot of personal pain for me too.
I try to remind myself that, just like every child, every adult is doing the best they know how--in that moment with what they are given-- to communicate or meet their needs. Likely they are hurting even more and feeling even less powerless than we are. They are in one of their worst parenting moments (and on some level they likely know it) and don't know a better way!
I think we all know what it's like to be parenting in ways we really wish we never would. I really don't believe glaring, shaming or blaming is ever going to help that parent or that child in that situation, or myself for that matter, except for a few moments of release... Isn't that a little like hitting someone and saying "no hitting"? If we glare or berate, aren't we just practicing the same "i'm right, you're wrong/bad" attitude that that parent is transmitting to the child?
But I definitely want to step in in some situations! And I do. If I can open my heart enough and it's not too threatening, I try address the parent compassionately. Just seeing them in this light can shift the whole situation. For example, in a camping situation where an overwhelmed mother had verbally lashed out and was then ignoring her howling child while she was putting up a tent, I asked the mother if I could help her cause it looked like she had a lot to do. She denied my help, but immediately softened, left the tent and went to comfort her child.
Another time I stopped a father who was hitting his child in a parking lot by shouting "stop hitting that child!". Turns out he was a minister and was hitting his child "calmly" and "for his own good". We had a very long, very cordial conversation in which the little boy peeked out at me from behind his father's legs, and probably heard for the first time that there was someone who believed that love and hitting never go together, that there were ways that are far more conducive to learning how to manage yourself in life, and that Jesus never advocated hitting children.
If I am too triggered to address the parent, I address the child directly. There are two good articles ont his topic at www.naturalchild.org by Jan Hunt under her child advocacy articles called something like "Intervening for a child in a public place".
warmly,
ingrid
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jwoolfolk
Tuck wrote:
the top of the ladder and down again without getting hurt. Surely that
happens more often than the broken bones.<<<<
I think we can both remember a certain child who could climb anything, anywhere and made some of us in our support group uncomfertable. But, looking back on it now, I can see that what I may have seen as dangerous because my ds did not have the same large motor skills as this child and would have certainly hurt himself, his mother had complete confidance in his abilities to deal with high places.
Julie W in AR
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>>Some people have more tolerance for monkey antics than others. X-ray techssee all the worst parts. They don't see all the times the toddler climbed to
the top of the ladder and down again without getting hurt. Surely that
happens more often than the broken bones.<<<<
I think we can both remember a certain child who could climb anything, anywhere and made some of us in our support group uncomfertable. But, looking back on it now, I can see that what I may have seen as dangerous because my ds did not have the same large motor skills as this child and would have certainly hurt himself, his mother had complete confidance in his abilities to deal with high places.
Julie W in AR
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/24/02 11:04:18 PM, jwoolfolk@... writes:
<< a certain child who could climb anything, anywhere and made some of us in
our support group uncomfertable. But, looking back on it now, I can see that
what I may have seen as dangerous because my ds did not have the same large
motor skills as this child and would have certainly hurt himself, his mother
had complete confidance in his abilities to deal with high places. >>
Marty was that way. Brave and sure-footed. He was at the top of a
straight, open slide on one of those playground extravaganzas with
rubber-coated platforms everywhere. He was just sitting there, waiting,
looking, maybe figuring some older kid would offer to take him down, or maybe
waiting to go down on his own. He was calm and happy. There were five or
six kids he knew all within five or six feet of him on the platform behind
him.
An older woman not with our regular playgroup said loudly to her friend
(actually talking to God and everybody, in that way people do sometimes) "I
wonder WHOSE little BABY that is up there at the top of that slide?"
Something like that. I was sitting with Kirby, who was three and too afraid
to go play by himself (a second phase of fear; when he was two he had been
brave, but sometime in that year he saw how someone COULD get hurt, and the
awareness made him kind of intellectually afraid of the heights.
So I got up, under the cold stare of these grandmothers, and went and stood
and talked to Marty. Are you okay?
Yes
Do you want down?
No.
Do you want to slide down? I'll catch you. So I stood over there a while to
make them happy. And that wasn't too terrible an idea anyway, having a mom
there. But we hadn't been far and we all knew which kids in that whole crowd
were safe and which were shy and which were uncoordinated.
Another boy in that group for a while, when the kids were older, when he was
12 or so used to swing in a chain swing with a sling seat (typical playground
swings) and he would pretend to fall asleep when he was going really high, or
at least get very still. The he would fall out forward, when the swing was
high to the back, and turn a flip and land on his feet.
Most of us were used to him doing that, but it would make new moms scream.
But those of us who had watched him flip and jump and play knew he was safe.
Sandra
<< a certain child who could climb anything, anywhere and made some of us in
our support group uncomfertable. But, looking back on it now, I can see that
what I may have seen as dangerous because my ds did not have the same large
motor skills as this child and would have certainly hurt himself, his mother
had complete confidance in his abilities to deal with high places. >>
Marty was that way. Brave and sure-footed. He was at the top of a
straight, open slide on one of those playground extravaganzas with
rubber-coated platforms everywhere. He was just sitting there, waiting,
looking, maybe figuring some older kid would offer to take him down, or maybe
waiting to go down on his own. He was calm and happy. There were five or
six kids he knew all within five or six feet of him on the platform behind
him.
An older woman not with our regular playgroup said loudly to her friend
(actually talking to God and everybody, in that way people do sometimes) "I
wonder WHOSE little BABY that is up there at the top of that slide?"
Something like that. I was sitting with Kirby, who was three and too afraid
to go play by himself (a second phase of fear; when he was two he had been
brave, but sometime in that year he saw how someone COULD get hurt, and the
awareness made him kind of intellectually afraid of the heights.
So I got up, under the cold stare of these grandmothers, and went and stood
and talked to Marty. Are you okay?
Yes
Do you want down?
No.
Do you want to slide down? I'll catch you. So I stood over there a while to
make them happy. And that wasn't too terrible an idea anyway, having a mom
there. But we hadn't been far and we all knew which kids in that whole crowd
were safe and which were shy and which were uncoordinated.
Another boy in that group for a while, when the kids were older, when he was
12 or so used to swing in a chain swing with a sling seat (typical playground
swings) and he would pretend to fall asleep when he was going really high, or
at least get very still. The he would fall out forward, when the swing was
high to the back, and turn a flip and land on his feet.
Most of us were used to him doing that, but it would make new moms scream.
But those of us who had watched him flip and jump and play knew he was safe.
Sandra
Mica
It sounds like you have a good reason to be fearful of the possibility
that the child might fall. The first idea that occurs to me is
suggesting that the child stand in the basket - but assuming that the
basket is full or contains too much for child also to be in the basket -
is that one might offer to stand by (ready to catch without conveying to
the child that they are bound to fall) for a few minutes while the mum
keeps looking.
Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
that the child might fall. The first idea that occurs to me is
suggesting that the child stand in the basket - but assuming that the
basket is full or contains too much for child also to be in the basket -
is that one might offer to stand by (ready to catch without conveying to
the child that they are bound to fall) for a few minutes while the mum
keeps looking.
Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia
> -----Original Message-----snipped
> From: Kimber [mailto:snibbor@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 24 October 2002 4:47 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: defending children in public
>
>isles.
> A friend and I were shopping at the local Wal-mart in the clothing
> We looked over, saw an (approx.) 2 y/o standing in the seat part ofthe
> cart. So very unsafe. The mother was turned the other direction,looking
> at a rack of something or other. We rushed over and said, "ohsweetie,
> please sit down so you don't fall!" The mother looked at us withalmost
> an evil look and said, "I had her standing there to hold these shirtsup
> to her. She is fine." Whoa! We thought we were being completelyin
> helpful. Being an x-ray tech, I have seen too many needless fractures
> children because the parents were inattentive. Not to mentionsometimes,
> just plain stupid. We saw her again later, the child continuing to bea
> monkey on the cart, balancing precariously, surely to fall any minute.I
> don't know if she ever did injure herself, but it made me verynervous.
>
> What to do then? She wasn't 'abusing' the child. Just neglectful or
> maybe irresponsible.
>
> Kimber
Tia Leschke
> Another boy in that group for a while, when the kids were older, when hewas
> 12 or so used to swing in a chain swing with a sling seat (typicalplayground
> swings) and he would pretend to fall asleep when he was going really high,or
> at least get very still. The he would fall out forward, when the swingwas
> high to the back, and turn a flip and land on his feet.I was just reading about a man who had wanted to do something like that
(actually go all the way around the circle on the swing) as a child but was
afraid. He tried it as an adult and is now a paraplegic extreme wheelchair
racer. Not sure what point (if any) I'm making here. Just found his story
interesting.
Tia