Jeff & Kate Kerr

****True Christians (I can't speak for the ones in these examples of
child abuse) get new hearts from God and act differently from then on.
Mike****

I truly do not understand why Christians think the have all the truth on
their side when it comes to raising children. Can I not be a good and
righteous person without believing in their God? Am I not a moral
person because I don't worship in their churches, or send my children to
bible school?

Just because they believe in God and his only begotten son, go to
church, and proselytize at me, does not make them good and moral people.

Why can't I believe in reincarnation, and Buddha, and the Goddess (Mary,
perhaps for the Christians out there) and believe in God and not go to
church and not spout my very personal and private beliefs all over the
place for people to discuss and for me to then get pissed off about
because no one agrees with me?

I don't understand why it's not ok for people to believe what they
believe and allow others to have that same freedom.

Kate
A little confused about why we are still discussing this when we know no
one is going to convert another, and a little pissed off that I am
having to use my delete button so often lately - I miss this list. I
liked the bible thread, not the conversion thread.
My 2 cents - feel free to ignore.

Fetteroll

on 10/21/02 10:18 PM, Jeff & Kate Kerr at windystreet@... wrote:

> I truly do not understand why Christians think the have all the truth on
> their side when it comes to raising children.

Some Christians believe they have all the truth about everything. It's all
in the Bible.

As long as it goes no further than I have the truth and you don't, I'm right
and you're wrong ... So what? (Assuming we're not talking about using the
Bible to justify doing horrendous things.) If you try imagining what the
world looks like from the view point of someone who believes the Bible
literally, then that attitude makes sense.

> Can I not be a good and
> righteous person without believing in their God?

And why does it bother you that someone might believe otherwise? How does it
change who you are or lessen who you are? (It's just a thought to ponder.)

Tolerance is often defined with respect to those who are different than we
are. But the true test is being tolearnt of those we disagree with. (As long
as they aren't harming others.)

> Why can't I believe in reincarnation, and Buddha, and the Goddess (Mary,
> perhaps for the Christians out there) and believe in God and not go to
> church and not spout my very personal and private beliefs all over the
> place for people to discuss and for me to then get pissed off about
> because no one agrees with me?

No matter how strongly someone is convinced they're right, they don't have
any power over us unless we let them. So what if they get angry? Their anger
has no effect unless we let it in and let it rile us up. If we look at anger
as a pot that's turning up it's own flame, we don't need to jump in the
boiling water or turn down the flame. Disengage and just let it boil ;-)

> I don't understand why it's not ok for people to believe what they
> believe and allow others to have that same freedom.

Because that isn't part of their belief system. My belief system is that
it's wrong to treat children as lesser beings. I argue with others who would
like the freedom and peace to believe otherwise. Christians have as much
right to believe I'm going to a fiery pit when I die, and that I could avoid
it if I'd just accept Jesus Christ as my Savior as I do to believe that
they're wrong.

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/21/02 8:30:31 PM, windystreet@... writes:

<< I don't understand why it's not ok for people to believe what they
believe and allow others to have that same freedom. >>

Because central to Baptist belief is that they have a mandate from God to try
to convert everyone quickly.


Buddhists and pagans have no such mandate.
Jews have no such mandate.

So while they're living their happy lives, Baptists (if they want to consider
themselves REAL Baptists) will continually try to bring them the Good News of
Jesus (and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses will too).

Their religions can't for a second "accept" anything else. That's the first
rule of their religion, that is the one true way.

There are others in the world, but they're not Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto or any
other tree/rock/ancestor worshippers.

The three named above are the ones most common in the U.S.

JWs and Mormons have an obligation to do it in person. Baptists used to,
more than now. Now they can fulfill their obligation by giving money to
Billy Graham or some TV station that broadcasts preaching all day.

Truly, we can't just decide to get along. Any baptist who says "Sure, it's
just as valid if you believe something different" is NOT doing what Jesus
told them to do (as they read the Bible). Even if the other thing you do is
be JW or Mormon. ESPECIALLY if the other thing you do is be Catholic. So
their first line of bad guys is the other Christians.

Anything out of the ordinary is blamed directly on Satan. Like Harry Potter.

Sandra

Jeff & Kate Kerr

You're right, of course, and I know it. It just frustrates me. I was
raised Catholic by a Catholic mother who came from a Catholic family,
etc.... But she continued to grow spiritually beyond those boundries
and I will always love her for being able to see outside the box she
grew up with (and her mother grew up with and her mother, etc...) and
allow my sisters and me room to do the same.

Thanks for the reminder.

Kate



****In a message dated 10/21/02 8:30:31 PM, windystreet@e... writes:

<< I don't understand why it's not ok for people
to believe what they
believe and allow others to have that same
freedom. >>

Because central to Baptist belief is that they
have a mandate from God to try
to convert everyone quickly.


Buddhists and pagans have no such mandate.
Jews have no such mandate.

So while they're living their happy lives,
Baptists (if they want to consider
themselves REAL Baptists) will continually try to
bring them the Good News of
Jesus (and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses will
too).

Their religions can't for a second "accept"
anything else. That's the first
rule of their religion, that is the one true way.

There are others in the world, but they're not
Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto or any
other tree/rock/ancestor worshippers.

The three named above are the ones most common in
the U.S.

JWs and Mormons have an obligation to do it in
person. Baptists used to,
more than now. Now they can fulfill their
obligation by giving money to
Billy Graham or some TV station that broadcasts
preaching all day.

Truly, we can't just decide to get along. Any
baptist who says "Sure, it's
just as valid if you believe something different"
is NOT doing what Jesus
told them to do (as they read the Bible). Even if
the other thing you do is
be JW or Mormon. ESPECIALLY if the other thing you
do is be Catholic. So
their first line of bad guys is the other
Christians.

Anything out of the ordinary is blamed directly on
Satan. Like Harry Potter.

Sandra****

[email protected]

<<Tolerance is often defined with respect to those who are different than
we
are. But the true test is being tolearnt of those we disagree with. (As
long
as they aren't harming others.)>>

Thank you, Joyce. I have very dear friends who don't agree with my
beliefs and vice versa, we love and respect one another deeply. We are
always honest with each other and thus we can calmly discuss issues we
differ on, we NEVER get angry or defensive.

I used to get angry when others were sarcastic or belittling, now I just
get sad because it means they don't know (maybe don't want to know) ME.
I'm even more sad when I see those who share some of my beliefs behaving
the same way, PEOPLE are more important than an urge to prove one is
superior.

Kris

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Mike Ebbers

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., louisam1@j... wrote:
>> Tolerance is often defined with respect to those who are
>>different than we are. But the true test is being tolerant of those
>>we disagree with. (As long as they aren't harming others.)
>
> Thank you, Joyce.
> I used to get angry when others were sarcastic or belittling, now I
just get sad because it means they don't know (maybe don't want to
know) ME. I'm even more sad when I see those who share some of my
beliefs behaving the same way, PEOPLE are more important than an urge
to prove one is superior.
> Kris

I can empathize. Though currently I feel both anger and sadness :-p
when people are sarcastic, I would like to come to the point of
feeling only sad, as you describe. Especially since I'm trying to
teach my children this outlook (not to lash back angrily in response
to being belittled).

Mike

[email protected]

<<I can empathize. Though currently I feel both anger and sadness :-p
when people are sarcastic, I would like to come to the point of
feeling only sad, as you describe. Especially since I'm trying to
teach my children this outlook (not to lash back angrily in response
to being belittled).

Mike>>

Mike, I don't think most people who belittle others are even aware of
what they are doing. Having been on both sides of a lot of fences have
let me see the same behavior on both sides. When one is convinced of
their rightness, on either side, they don't see the way they are
addressing the other side as demeaning.

The upside is this, when I meet people are truly generous, tolerant and
treat all people with respect, in spite of differing views I know I've
discovered someone I want to know. I've got a few of those in my life
now and I do everything I can to treat them the same way. They are
jewels.

Kris

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