Myranda

Brett (7) wants to cook. He's helped me for years with the mixing, handing ingrediants, etc, but now he wants to do on-the-stove cooking. One problem is that he's not tall enough yet, and would have to use a step stool. But my biggest problem is that I've known several kids older than him that were burned badly, even with mom supervising. That scares me to death, especially since I don't even have a way to get him to the hospital if he should burn himself. I was really hoping to wait at least a couple more years on the "real" cooking, but if I'm just being paranoid I don't want to hold him back. Thoughts?


Myranda 8-)
WAH,HS,M
Married to Daniel since 12/31/94
Brett 9/4/95
Tyler 1/22/97
Cassidy 1/19/02


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mica

My mum (whose talent and job is cooking) has burned herself badly while
cooking - she moved to fast, or tried to do to many things at once, or
lost concentration - the point is, yes it can happen.

Considering the possibility - what safety / first aid system do you have
in place in case you or some other adult burns yourself while cooking?
It might be time to investigate appropriate first aid and ensure that
anyone who cooks at your house knows that first aid procedure.

If you decide to go ahead with a step stool - this might be something
else that you could get safety advice on. I am wondering if you would
need one big enough for Brett to take a step sideways and backwards
without falling off?

Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Myranda [mailto:myrandab@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 October 2002 11:54 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Cooking?
>
> Brett (7) wants to cook. He's helped me for years with the mixing,
handing
> ingrediants, etc, but now he wants to do on-the-stove cooking. One
problem
> is that he's not tall enough yet, and would have to use a step stool.
But
> my biggest problem is that I've known several kids older than him that
> were burned badly, even with mom supervising. That scares me to death,
> especially since I don't even have a way to get him to the hospital if
he
> should burn himself. I was really hoping to wait at least a couple
more
> years on the "real" cooking, but if I'm just being paranoid I don't
want
> to hold him back. Thoughts?
>
>
> Myranda 8-)
> WAH,HS,M
> Married to Daniel since 12/31/94
> Brett 9/4/95
> Tyler 1/22/97
> Cassidy 1/19/02
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> email to:
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>
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>
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/21/02 8:55:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
myrandab@... writes:


> was really hoping to wait at least a couple more years on the "real"
> cooking, but if I'm just being paranoid I don't want to hold him back.
> Thoughts?

Moly learned to cook with her Easy Bake oven, an electric skillet and a
toaster oven. She is 8 now and uses the stove and oven very well. There are
still some things I do for her. I drain boiling water out of pots of noodles
for her and if the pan she wants out of the oven is too heavy I take that out
for her too. Its not like he has to go from cooking with you to cooking all
by himself. You can still be there while he cooks. If he has been cooking
with you for a while now, and knows all about cooking safety, he should be
fine. Just remember, you are just as likely to burn yourself as he is. He
will probably be more cautious anyway.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephanie Elms

> > was really hoping to wait at least a couple more years on
> the "real"
> > cooking, but if I'm just being paranoid I don't want to
> hold him back.
> > Thoughts?

Hmmm...both boys help me with cooking on the stove. Jason (5.5 yo) stands on a little
kids size wooden chair (goes with the kids size table that used to be my moms and
then mine). It is very stable and puts him at a perfect height. He has been helping
add things since he was around 3 I think. Kyle (2.5) sits on the counter right next
to the stove and helps stir and dump things (I tried getting him to stand on a chair
but he is incredibly insistant on sitting on the counter...I would not be able to get
dinner ready if I didn't let him sit there). Both boys are very good around the stove
and I have never had any close calls. I would not let them cook by themselves however.

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 21:54:06 -0400 "Myranda" <myrandab@...>
writes:
> But my biggest problem is that I've known
> several kids older than him that were burned badly, even with mom
> supervising. That scares me to death, especially since I don't even
> have a way to get him to the hospital if he should burn himself. I
> was really hoping to wait at least a couple more years on the "real"
> cooking, but if I'm just being paranoid I don't want to hold him
> back. Thoughts?
>
I left the lid to the compost bucket on the stove yesterday, then went to
turn on a burner under a pot of water and accidentally turned on the one
under the lid. Then I left the room, and only came back when Rain called
"Mom, there's a fire on the stove!" Which there was....

Rain never burns herself or sets things on fire, and she cooks when I'min
another room (but not when she's home alone). She's 9.... I think it has
something to do with personality, she's less scattered and more focused
than I am. I did show her how to do things, and I was dumping heavy pots
of water until just recently.

I burn my finger every so often, not badly but it hurts a bit. How were
these kids you know burned badly? I'm trying to picture it - maybe
pulling pots of water onto themselves? I guess I'd look at the specific
possible risks and deal with them individually - Rain started with eggs
in a frame (nest) and it's pretty hard to burn yourself making those...

Dar

Myranda

I keep a pretty well-stocked first aid basket here, as I have a DH who I constantly threaten to buy him a spacesuit to wear because he is always hurt somehow. I do have some pads that you're supposed to put on if you get burned, but I've never used them.

We have a step stool in the bathroom, it's kinda small, but he's been using it since he was 2, so he knows exactly where he can put his feet without falling off. It's real sturdy and won't tip over no matter what. Easy to clean, too.
Myranda

From: Mica
My mum (whose talent and job is cooking) has burned herself badly while
cooking - she moved to fast, or tried to do to many things at once, or
lost concentration - the point is, yes it can happen.

Considering the possibility - what safety / first aid system do you have
in place in case you or some other adult burns yourself while cooking?
It might be time to investigate appropriate first aid and ensure that
anyone who cooks at your house knows that first aid procedure.

If you decide to go ahead with a step stool - this might be something
else that you could get safety advice on. I am wondering if you would
need one big enough for Brett to take a step sideways and backwards
without falling off?

Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

Hmmm I have an electric skillet, a toaster oven, and a little grill. Maybe I could let him practice on those for a little while before the stove.
Myranda
From: Dnowens@...
Moly learned to cook with her Easy Bake oven, an electric skillet and a
toaster oven. She is 8 now and uses the stove and oven very well. There are
still some things I do for her. I drain boiling water out of pots of noodles
for her and if the pan she wants out of the oven is too heavy I take that out
for her too. Its not like he has to go from cooking with you to cooking all
by himself. You can still be there while he cooks. If he has been cooking
with you for a while now, and knows all about cooking safety, he should be
fine. Just remember, you are just as likely to burn yourself as he is. He
will probably be more cautious anyway.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

Oh my, I think I'd have died of heart failure if my boys had wanted to be on the counter by the stove at 2 and a half! Wow!
Myranda

From: Stephanie Elms Hmmm...both boys help me with cooking on the stove. Jason (5.5 yo) stands on a little
kids size wooden chair (goes with the kids size table that used to be my moms and
then mine). It is very stable and puts him at a perfect height. He has been helping
add things since he was around 3 I think. Kyle (2.5) sits on the counter right next
to the stove and helps stir and dump things (I tried getting him to stand on a chair
but he is incredibly insistant on sitting on the counter...I would not be able to get
dinner ready if I didn't let him sit there). Both boys are very good around the stove
and I have never had any close calls. I would not let them cook by themselves however.

Stephanie E.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Myranda

From: freeform@...
<snip> How were
these kids you know burned badly? I'm trying to picture it - maybe
pulling pots of water onto themselves? I guess I'd look at the specific
possible risks and deal with them individually - Rain started with eggs
in a frame (nest) and it's pretty hard to burn yourself making those...

Dar

** Let's see... One was burned when she thought she'd turned one burner on but turned the one beside it on instead, and laid her arm on the burner that was on. One was burned by an overfilled pot bubbling over and down her leg. My cousin was burned when he did pour hot water all over himself while taking the pot to the sink. A little girl of my dad's assistant manager at his furniture store died from burns she suffered when she dropped a pan of hot oil.
Myranda









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nora or Devereaux Cannon

Burns are bad - and somewhat inevitable, even for me as an adult.
Cooking is good, and definitely inevitable. The kids - even the
2 yo grandson have had pride of place on the counter next to the
stove everytime they are interested - which means most times
cooking is going on.

Here's what we do - some of it may work for you.

First, because we are in the middle of nowhere, we are prepared
to deal with burns and fires pretty much by ourselves. I have
confidence in my mix of fire extinguishers, baking soda,
smothering lids, sterile bandages, ice water, and clothing rules.
I could tell you exactly where they are and why, but those
decision are driven largely by how our home is configured. You
would probably get better results by taking your 7 to the
volunteer (or "real") firestation and asking questions about fire
and cooking safety. It's a fun trip.

Second, but related to the first, counter or no counter sitting,
there are things that require standing on a step stool. Get the
very best no-slip leg taps for the kitchen floor you have. As a
general rule, the tips of walking assistance canes are great, but
experiment until 60 pounds can stretch/bend with 10 pounds of
something in his hands and no unexpected stool scooting.

Third, pick recipes together. At 7 he probably can cook any meal
you can dream up - with the caveat that he needs a couple of
years of practice. Having been through "cooking 101" (to be
schoolish) several times here, the general sequence that fits
with real food the child will routinely see on the dinner table
is (1) fruit salads, because fruit typically will not skid under
a knife is the angle of attack is bad (keep the knives as sharp
as you possibly can to avoid accidents) (2) vegetable
salads/dishes though more challenging to cut, still not much risk
of food poisoning and definitely doable in the microwave (3)
soups/stews/pasta sauces adds heat that might burn the child, but
little risk of spattering fat or boil over (4) grilled stuff (5)
high temperature syrup candy making (6) deep fat frying - I do
not think anybody under 18 should do that , LOL.

Interspersed in that is oven work, both roasting and bread/cake
type stuff, microwaving, and assembling (e.g. sandwiches, stuffed
celery, antipasto). At 8 months they can participate, if not
help, in making bread dough. By 3 or 4 they can make a cake mix
cake - the in and out of the oven part IMHO ought to be driven by
what kind of oven you have.

Reading over it, this sounds rigid - and I am not - so take it
with a grain of salt as a set of "directions" - perhaps more a
way of deconstructing how to think about the risks/strengths of
each step. At 7, I put a meal on the table essentially every
Saturday night because I really liked to; age and experience have
to both be considered. BTW - for anybody still reading, LOL, get
How to Read a French Fry by Russ Parsons ISBN 039596783X!

Myranda

Thank you for the ideas!!! I'm printing this e-mail! LOL
Myranda

Burns are bad - and somewhat inevitable, even for me as an adult.
Cooking is good, and definitely inevitable. The kids - even the
2 yo grandson have had pride of place on the counter next to the
stove everytime they are interested - which means most times
cooking is going on.

Here's what we do - some of it may work for you.

First, because we are in the middle of nowhere, we are prepared
to deal with burns and fires pretty much by ourselves. I have
confidence in my mix of fire extinguishers, baking soda,
smothering lids, sterile bandages, ice water, and clothing rules.
I could tell you exactly where they are and why, but those
decision are driven largely by how our home is configured. You
would probably get better results by taking your 7 to the
volunteer (or "real") firestation and asking questions about fire
and cooking safety. It's a fun trip.

Second, but related to the first, counter or no counter sitting,
there are things that require standing on a step stool. Get the
very best no-slip leg taps for the kitchen floor you have. As a
general rule, the tips of walking assistance canes are great, but
experiment until 60 pounds can stretch/bend with 10 pounds of
something in his hands and no unexpected stool scooting.

Third, pick recipes together. At 7 he probably can cook any meal
you can dream up - with the caveat that he needs a couple of
years of practice. Having been through "cooking 101" (to be
schoolish) several times here, the general sequence that fits
with real food the child will routinely see on the dinner table
is (1) fruit salads, because fruit typically will not skid under
a knife is the angle of attack is bad (keep the knives as sharp
as you possibly can to avoid accidents) (2) vegetable
salads/dishes though more challenging to cut, still not much risk
of food poisoning and definitely doable in the microwave (3)
soups/stews/pasta sauces adds heat that might burn the child, but
little risk of spattering fat or boil over (4) grilled stuff (5)
high temperature syrup candy making (6) deep fat frying - I do
not think anybody under 18 should do that , LOL.

Interspersed in that is oven work, both roasting and bread/cake
type stuff, microwaving, and assembling (e.g. sandwiches, stuffed
celery, antipasto). At 8 months they can participate, if not
help, in making bread dough. By 3 or 4 they can make a cake mix
cake - the in and out of the oven part IMHO ought to be driven by
what kind of oven you have.

Reading over it, this sounds rigid - and I am not - so take it
with a grain of salt as a set of "directions" - perhaps more a
way of deconstructing how to think about the risks/strengths of
each step. At 7, I put a meal on the table essentially every
Saturday night because I really liked to; age and experience have
to both be considered. BTW - for anybody still reading, LOL, get
How to Read a French Fry by Russ Parsons ISBN 039596783X!



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/22/02 6:15:42 AM, myrandab@... writes:

<< Hmmm I have an electric skillet, a toaster oven, and a little grill. Maybe
I could let him practice on those for a little while before the stove. >>

On a lower surface maybe?

A platform in front of the stove (instead of a little stool) would be ideal,
but in my house every taller person would have bruised shins from running
into the platform.

We have some really solid wood chairs with flat, flat seats. (A local
traditional furniture style I have a few of.) When Holly's helping cook I
put her stuff on one of those. She's getting taller now, but still it's a
bit dangerous for her, reaching up over into things she can't see into. But
on the chair she can hold a mixing bowl to stir and she can knead bread. She
can't push down on the cabinet or the kitchen table, so we wash one of the
chair seats well and she uses that.



Sandra

Myranda

Yes, I could use the kitchen table. It's only a few steps from the stove, and a perfect height for him. I can't put anything in front of the stove, it's on an island and there's barely room to walk around it as it is. Grrrr I hate itty bitty kitchens!!! Even if they do keep the mess down.
Myranda
On a lower surface maybe?

A platform in front of the stove (instead of a little stool) would be ideal,
but in my house every taller person would have bruised shins from running
into the platform.

We have some really solid wood chairs with flat, flat seats. (A local
traditional furniture style I have a few of.) When Holly's helping cook I
put her stuff on one of those. She's getting taller now, but still it's a
bit dangerous for her, reaching up over into things she can't see into. But
on the chair she can hold a mixing bowl to stir and she can knead bread. She
can't push down on the cabinet or the kitchen table, so we wash one of the
chair seats well and she uses that.



Sandra

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kelli Traaseth

My son who is 9 now would have been if I would have let him. I didn't and didn't let him do alot. Well,,,, now he feels like he can't do anything. Unschooling him has brought his desires back out and he can help me and I have to keep telling him, you can do it, see!
Poor guy,
Sad Mom when I think about my earlier parenting style,
Kelli
Myranda <myrandab@...> wrote:Oh my, I think I'd have died of heart failure if my boys had wanted to be on the counter by the stove at 2 and a half! Wow!
Myranda

From: Stephanie Elms Hmmm...both boys help me with cooking on the stove. Jason (5.5 yo) stands on a little
kids size wooden chair (goes with the kids size table that used to be my moms and
then mine). It is very stable and puts him at a perfect height. He has been helping
add things since he was around 3 I think. Kyle (2.5) sits on the counter right next
to the stove and helps stir and dump things (I tried getting him to stand on a chair
but he is incredibly insistant on sitting on the counter...I would not be able to get
dinner ready if I didn't let him sit there). Both boys are very good around the stove
and I have never had any close calls. I would not let them cook by themselves however.

Stephanie E.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**A platform in front of the stove (instead of a little stool) would be
ideal,
but in my house every taller person would have bruised shins from
running
into the platform. **

A step stool that's like steps seems like it would be a lot more stable
than a step stool that's like a stool. (A step stool that's like a
ladder would be in the middle of the safety rankings.)

We need more words in this language! These three things shouldn't have
to share the same name. (Wait - I guess the third one is actually a
step ladder.)

Betsy

[email protected]

<<Brett (7) wants to cook. He's helped me for years with the mixing,
handing ingrediants, etc, but now he wants to do on-the-stove cooking.
One problem is that he's not tall enough yet, and would have to use a
step stool. But my biggest problem is that I've known several kids older
than him that were burned badly, even with mom supervising. That scares
me to death, especially since I don't even have a way to get him to the
hospital if he should burn himself. I was really hoping to wait at least
a couple more years on the "real" cooking, but if I'm just being paranoid
I don't want to hold him back. Thoughts?


Myranda 8-)>>

I spent many hours with a friend in the burn unit, her son was severely
burned by a cup of hot coffee in the church nursery. Watching the
torture he and other patients there went through gave me a keen awareness
of the dangers out there.

That being said, I've had to weigh this fear against the benefit of
children cooking. I think the sooner they indulge the desire to
experiment with food the more comfortable they will be with cooking their
entire lives.

I let both kids help, Lanora (12) is adept in the kitchen but still asks
for help with things like taking things out of the oven or draining hot
liquids. She loves deep fried tortillas but won't cook them herself, she
is leery of the hot oil. Jonathan (4) helps and has gotten tiny burns
doing so in spite of my diligence, what they have accomplished is a first
hand experience I couldn't replace with words.

I tell him that it is safer if I drain the water from the pasta but he
can put the pasta in the water. Just this morning he accidently touched
the edge of the pot, we immediately ran cold water over the spot and he's
fine. However, I know he would never mess with the stove or the things
cooking there because he know how fast he can get hurt.

Sometimes reasonable risk outweighs the concerns.

Kris

________________________________________________________________
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Myranda

Thanks, Kris! He cooked chicken in a couple tablespoons olive oil the other night, and I was impressed with the caution he used!!
Myranda
From: louisam1@...
I spent many hours with a friend in the burn unit, her son was severely
burned by a cup of hot coffee in the church nursery. Watching the
torture he and other patients there went through gave me a keen awareness
of the dangers out there.

That being said, I've had to weigh this fear against the benefit of
children cooking. I think the sooner they indulge the desire to
experiment with food the more comfortable they will be with cooking their
entire lives.

I let both kids help, Lanora (12) is adept in the kitchen but still asks
for help with things like taking things out of the oven or draining hot
liquids. She loves deep fried tortillas but won't cook them herself, she
is leery of the hot oil. Jonathan (4) helps and has gotten tiny burns
doing so in spite of my diligence, what they have accomplished is a first
hand experience I couldn't replace with words.

I tell him that it is safer if I drain the water from the pasta but he
can put the pasta in the water. Just this morning he accidently touched
the edge of the pot, we immediately ran cold water over the spot and he's
fine. However, I know he would never mess with the stove or the things
cooking there because he know how fast he can get hurt.

Sometimes reasonable risk outweighs the concerns.

Kris

________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stephanie Elms

> Oh my, I think I'd have died of heart failure if my boys had
> wanted to be on the counter by the stove at 2 and a half! Wow!
> Myranda


Well, I guess that you would need to know Kyle. He has been sitting on
counters since he was around 18 months. Has great balance and has never
come close to falling (or burning himself for that matter). I stayed
really close to him in the beginning, it was the only way that I could
get sandwiches made or dishes done.

He also used to sit on the counter next to my sink while I did my hair
in the morning. And store counters (the library recently put a sign up
that said no kids on the check out counter and he is not thrilled, makes
check out more of a pain). Not sure what it is about counters...maybe he
just doesn't like to miss out on anything. Must be kind of hard to be
3 feet tall in this world. :o)

Stephanie E.

Dalene and Andy

>>Not sure what it is about counters...maybe he
just doesn't like to miss out on anything. Must be kind of hard to be
3 feet tall in this world.

Probably just want to see the world from your point of view...hehee. Mine's been on counters too. I used to put my eldest in one basin while I washed the dishes in the other one. That was the only way I could get the dishes done.

Dalene


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>

<<Well, I guess that you would need to know Kyle. He has been sitting on
counters since he was around 18 months. Has great balance and has never
come close to falling (or burning himself for that matter). I stayed
really close to him in the beginning, it was the only way that I could
get sandwiches made or dishes done.

He also used to sit on the counter next to my sink while I did my hair
in the morning. And store counters (the library recently put a sign up
that said no kids on the check out counter and he is not thrilled, makes
check out more of a pain). Not sure what it is about counters...maybe he
just doesn't like to miss out on anything. Must be kind of hard to be
3 feet tall in this world. :o)>>



Hey, I have a counter sitter here too!! Alyssa loves to be up on the
counters. First thing she says is "me up there?" She loves the bathroom
counters and the kitchen counters. She'd sit up there all day if I let her.
Of course when I leave the room, she has to get down, which she's not fond
of. I guess it is a height thing. Of course this is also the same 2 year old
that Monday at the park climbed the S shaped ladder that is 6 feet high by
herself.

Mary B



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Stephanie Elms

>
> Probably just want to see the world from your point of
> view...hehee. Mine's been on counters too. I used to put my
> eldest in one basin while I washed the dishes in the other
> one. That was the only way I could get the dishes done.

That is probably it. His favorite sling position was the kangaroo
carry, facing out with his little legs tucked in so he could see.

I never thought about putting him in the sink...what a great idea!

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

There are lots of food-prep things kids can do that don't involve stoves. If
meat-eaters, tuna salad, chicken salad sandwiches, all KINDS of cheese
sandwiches which can be made on toast and microwaved just a little bit and
they simulate grilled without the hot surface.

They can do the prep-work of cake or cookies or brownies, and even put them
in the oven (and mom can take them out when everything has become 365 degrees
more dangerous).

Sandra