Myranda

For people who plan on staying in the US, I think Spanish would be a good choice. No matter what large city you're in, especially, like you say, in the southern states, you have Spanish-speaking people. Personally, I can translate written Spanish, but I can barely understand a word of spoken Spanish. I never studied it, though. I find sign language come in very handy, also. If everyone learned at least the alphabet in sign language, then everyone could make themselves understood no matter where they are.
Myranda

From: Alan & Brenda Leonard
My take on this is that a fair number of Americans *do* study other
languages. It's not about narrowmindedness or lack of interest in broading
our horizons. The question is, what language should we study?

If you live in a non-English speaking country, the answer is fairly
obviously English. That's the result of the current economic and political
situation where English-speaking nations dominate. If this were the time of
the Roman Empire, we'd all be learning Latin. At various times in history,
other languages have dominated.

I studied two foreign languages, French and German. They received
absolutely no use whatsoever until the Army sent us to Germany 14 years
after I last studied a language. But the chances were just as good we could
have gone to Korea or Japan.

Perhaps we could be more tolerant of other people's cultures and
particularly of those folks with accents of any sort. But yes, I do think
at least a minimal amount of English is necessary when living in America.

Did you have any suggestions on what language Americans should learn?
Spanish has uses, particularly in the southern U.S. Vietnamese is fairly
big in the West. More people speak Manderin Chinese than anything else, but
depending what you'd like to do with your life, Arabic is needed much more.
Herein lies the problem. Ideas?

brenda


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan & Brenda Leonard

> No, what is sad isn't that they speak English, its that Americans don't speak
> more diverse languages. I've traveled all over and in most countries people
> are, at the least, bilingual. Americans have a very narrow view, I hear
> comments like *If your gonna live here, speak the language.* How sad that
> people here don't want to broaden their horizons!

My take on this is that a fair number of Americans *do* study other
languages. It's not about narrowmindedness or lack of interest in broading
our horizons. The question is, what language should we study?

If you live in a non-English speaking country, the answer is fairly
obviously English. That's the result of the current economic and political
situation where English-speaking nations dominate. If this were the time of
the Roman Empire, we'd all be learning Latin. At various times in history,
other languages have dominated.

I studied two foreign languages, French and German. They received
absolutely no use whatsoever until the Army sent us to Germany 14 years
after I last studied a language. But the chances were just as good we could
have gone to Korea or Japan.

Perhaps we could be more tolerant of other people's cultures and
particularly of those folks with accents of any sort. But yes, I do think
at least a minimal amount of English is necessary when living in America.

Did you have any suggestions on what language Americans should learn?
Spanish has uses, particularly in the southern U.S. Vietnamese is fairly
big in the West. More people speak Manderin Chinese than anything else, but
depending what you'd like to do with your life, Arabic is needed much more.
Herein lies the problem. Ideas?

brenda

Tami

We study Hangul-Korean because we also study taekwondo.
My children know sign language pretty fluently.
I took spanish when I was younger, but I was raised in Houston Tx and it
came in very handy.

Peace,
Tami


----- Original Message -----
From: "Myranda" <myrandab@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] language


> For people who plan on staying in the US, I think Spanish would be a good
choice. No matter what large city you're in, especially, like you say, in
the southern states, you have Spanish-speaking people. Personally, I can
translate written Spanish, but I can barely understand a word of spoken
Spanish. I never studied it, though. I find sign language come in very
handy, also. If everyone learned at least the alphabet in sign language,
then everyone could make themselves understood no matter where they are.
> Myranda
>
> From: Alan & Brenda Leonard
> My take on this is that a fair number of Americans *do* study other
> languages. It's not about narrowmindedness or lack of interest in
broading
> our horizons. The question is, what language should we study?
>
> If you live in a non-English speaking country, the answer is fairly
> obviously English. That's the result of the current economic and
political
> situation where English-speaking nations dominate. If this were the
time of
> the Roman Empire, we'd all be learning Latin. At various times in
history,
> other languages have dominated.
>
> I studied two foreign languages, French and German. They received
> absolutely no use whatsoever until the Army sent us to Germany 14 years
> after I last studied a language. But the chances were just as good we
could
> have gone to Korea or Japan.
>
> Perhaps we could be more tolerant of other people's cultures and
> particularly of those folks with accents of any sort. But yes, I do
think
> at least a minimal amount of English is necessary when living in
America.
>
> Did you have any suggestions on what language Americans should learn?
> Spanish has uses, particularly in the southern U.S. Vietnamese is
fairly
> big in the West. More people speak Manderin Chinese than anything else,
but
> depending what you'd like to do with your life, Arabic is needed much
more.
> Herein lies the problem. Ideas?
>
> brenda
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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>
>
>
>
>
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Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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>
>
>

Alan & Brenda Leonard

> So its not even an
> American who doesn't know other languages thing. Its more of a bad winner
> thing. Its like people feel the need to constantly remind the world that the
> US won the war.
and
> I have heard people make rude comments to German people and every single
> Vietnam Vet I know calls just about every person of Asian descent a lovely
> little name.

For the record, I think this is pitiful. And I hear it every day from
Americans stationed in Europe.

But lest you think this is purely an ugly American thing, I speak enough
German to know that some Germans make rude comments about us, too. I
sympathize with their situation -- it's been 50+ years of living in an
occupied country, and they don't want us here. But does that give us
license to be rude to and about each other?

brenda

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/17/02 3:25:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
abtleo@... writes:


> Did you have any suggestions on what language Americans should learn?
> Spanish has uses, particularly in the southern U.S. Vietnamese is fairly
> big in the West. More people speak Manderin Chinese than anything else,
> but
> depending what you'd like to do with your life, Arabic is needed much more.
> Herein lies the problem. Ideas?
>

I agree, it is hard to decide which language to learn. Personally, I think a
small knowledge in either French or Spanish would be good. If you know one or
both of those it is easy to go into countries with similar languages and
*kind of* understand what they are talking about. I think if you are going
into business it would be a good idea to know either Japanese or Chinese. It
is my personal opinion that people should be at least bilingual. I also think
that when going to a country where you don't speak the language that you
should carry and USE one of those English to _____ dictionaries. I speak
Spanish, it helps me in the area I live in. I know a tad of Farsi, but I
don't hear it often, nor do I have the occasion to speak it so I am limited
to basic words. (left over from when we used to live in Iran) I can
follow/stumble along in German and I converse nicely in Swedish. (Only
because my Great grandma didn't speak anything else. <g>) I really think it
is important to know how languages work. Sometimes even if I don't speak a
language I can get a good idea of what people are saying. Darin gets a kick
out of going somewhere with me where people maybe speaking something other
than English. We went to an Italian restaurant in Chicago years ago and the
owners spoke Italian. I don't speak Italian, but I could tell Darin what
(most) was being said. I guess, I am just lucky. But I still feel strongly
that people should know one other language other than their own.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/17/02 4:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
angel1bunny@... writes:


> We study Hangul-Korean because we also study taekwondo.
> My children know sign language pretty fluently.
> I took spanish when I was younger, but I was raised in Houston Tx and it
> came in very handy.
>
> Peace,
> Tami

That is great! I always wanted (and plan to someday) learn sign language.
Jack and Moly are learning Japanese because their Karate teacher speaks it in
class. Darin helps them more than I because he was stationed in Okinawa and
Japan. I can now count to 10 and say horse stance and stop in Japanese. But I
wouldn't say I know Japanese. <G>
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tami

I can read it, (hangul) but not speak it. It an easy language to learn to
read and write. I have a hard time speaking it. My son is very good at it,
at a restaurant we go to he can talk to the cook :) first time he did it I
was so surprised, didnt even know he knew how :) He learned alot of it on
the internet.

We used to tape the sign language characters to the table, (sign for table)
etc. My youngest is very very good at it.

Peace,
Tami
----- Original Message -----
From: <Dnowens@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] language


> In a message dated 10/17/02 4:04:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
> angel1bunny@... writes:
>
>
> > We study Hangul-Korean because we also study taekwondo.
> > My children know sign language pretty fluently.
> > I took spanish when I was younger, but I was raised in Houston Tx and it
> > came in very handy.
> >
> > Peace,
> > Tami
>
> That is great! I always wanted (and plan to someday) learn sign language.
> Jack and Moly are learning Japanese because their Karate teacher speaks it
in
> class. Darin helps them more than I because he was stationed in Okinawa
and
> Japan. I can now count to 10 and say horse stance and stop in Japanese.
But I
> wouldn't say I know Japanese. <G>
> ~Nancy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Tia Leschke

I also think
> that when going to a country where you don't speak the language that you
> should carry and USE one of those English to _____ dictionaries.

I was studying German when I went to Germany at the age of 18. Every time I
tried to use my German, the German person would insist on practicing their
English. <g>
I got a lot of practice understanding but very little in speaking. And when
I came back after taking an extra week off college at spring break, the
*only* teacher to penalize me for missing classes was . . . . . . . . . . my
German teacher . . . sigh.
Tia

Dalene and Andy

English is my second language - Afrikaans my first, and I have found an English speakers around the world to be intolerant towards people that do not speak perfect English - whether it is accent or correct grammar. They seem almost oblivious that they, themselves, mostly can only use one language. But then again, there English speakers around the world seem to be irritated, with the accent and differences around the world in English.

Dalene


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan & Brenda Leonard

> For people who plan on staying in the US, I think Spanish would be a good
> choice. No matter what large city you're in, especially, like you say, in the
> southern states, you have Spanish-speaking people.
and
> If everyone learned at least the alphabet in sign language, then everyone
> could make themselves understood no matter where they are.

What language are you studying with your children, because how do you know
what they're going to do or where they'll stay?

I agree with Nancy's comment about learning *some* language, because then
it's easier to pick up others. I was amazed how much Italian I could read
when we were in Rome. Most of the languages mentioned so far, though, have
been western, sharing our alphabet. Has anyone learned much of an eastern
language with a totally different alphabet? (Tami, do you also read and
write in Hangul-Korean, or just speak it in taekwondo?) I'm interested to
know how it is, learning a whole different system.

Also, I agree that sign language can be helpful, especially the invented
kind! I use that every day! But it's not called *American* Sign Language
for nothing; ASL, which is the one taught and used in the states is
different from what many other folks use worldwide. Why that is, I don't
know, though.

brenda

Myranda

From: Alan & Brenda Leonard
What language are you studying with your children, because how do you know
what they're going to do or where they'll stay?
** Brett's interested in Spanish, so we're doing a bit of that. Tyler wanders off or tunes us out, he's not interested in anything yet.


I agree with Nancy's comment about learning *some* language, because then
it's easier to pick up others. I was amazed how much Italian I could read
when we were in Rome. Most of the languages mentioned so far, though, have
been western, sharing our alphabet. Has anyone learned much of an eastern
language with a totally different alphabet? (Tami, do you also read and
write in Hangul-Korean, or just speak it in taekwondo?) I'm interested to
know how it is, learning a whole different system.

Also, I agree that sign language can be helpful, especially the invented
kind! I use that every day! But it's not called *American* Sign Language
for nothing; ASL, which is the one taught and used in the states is
different from what many other folks use worldwide. Why that is, I don't
know, though.

** Most Americans that use sign language fluently put their own "accent" on it anyway, so there can be differences even over here. Usually signs from other countries can, for the most part, be understood.
Myranda


brenda





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shyrley

On 18 Oct 02, at 8:01, Myranda wrote:

>
> From: Alan & Brenda Leonard
> What language are you studying with your children, because how do
> you know what they're going to do or where they'll stay? ** Brett's
> interested in Spanish, so we're doing a bit of that. Tyler wanders
> off or tunes us out, he's not interested in anything yet.
>
>
> I agree with Nancy's comment about learning *some* language, because
> then it's easier to pick up others. I was amazed how much Italian I
> could read when we were in Rome. Most of the languages mentioned so
> far, though, have been western, sharing our alphabet. Has anyone
> learned much of an eastern language with a totally different
> alphabet?

I can read and write in Russian and speaka fair bit. Not particuarly
useful here in Virginia...

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

Mary Bianco

I think it's a good idea that people learn more than one language, although
I can only speak one myself. Had french, spanish and hungarian at one time
but lost them all from lack of use. (I was much younger then)

My oldest knows spanish and the two middle ones are deciding now between
french and spanish. As soon as they decide, they'll start "lessons."

What bothers me is the people here who speak no english what so ever and
have no desire to learn. In the US, it's practical to think that english is
what most people speak in business. When people from other countries come
here, they figure on having to know or speak some english. There are many
people here, who have been here for a long time, and have no desire to speak
english.

A pet peeve of mine.

Mary B





_________________________________________________________________
Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN!
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp

Tami

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan & Brenda Leonard" <abtleo@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 3:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] re: language

Our instructor uses some korean language during class, so we understand a
few words spoken. I can write and read hangul a little, I can usually figure
out what something says. My son speaks it better than he can write it, there
are charcters and you have to know what sound the characters stand for, then
when its spoken it has it own unique sound. We learned to read and write
Hangul from the web and from one of our instructors who is fluent in it. He
wrote our names out for our uniforms and thats when it started : ) we just
took it from there and learned on our own, then when the other insructor
comes to class he will see what we know.

I have noticed too, that sign language is just like spoken words in the
sense that get a type of slang, my SIL teaches it and when she sees us do it
she will correct saying thats "slang" so I guess its like anyother language
: )

Peace,
Tami


> Has anyone learned much of an eastern
> language with a totally different alphabet? (Tami, do you also read and
> write in Hangul-Korean, or just speak it in taekwondo?) I'm interested to
> know how it is, learning a whole different system.
>
> Also, I agree that sign language can be helpful, especially the invented
> kind! I use that every day! But it's not called *American* Sign Language
> for nothing; ASL, which is the one taught and used in the states is
> different from what many other folks use worldwide. Why that is, I don't
> know, though.
>
> brenda
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
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>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Todd M.

At 08:20 AM 10/18/02 -0400, you wrote:

>I can read and write in Russian and speaka fair bit. Not particuarly
>useful here in Virginia...
>
>Shyrley
==
I can pick out a *few* words in Spanish, both hearing it and reading it.
However, I'm positive I couldn't carry on a conversation, translate for
others (fluently), or write more than a few words at a time. My kids have a
Spanish computer game that they used to play from time to time, but I think
they've outgrown the style of the games technique. Ren has almost always
been interested in learning Spanish, but in high school they put her in a
french class that she got very little out of.

We live in SW.MO, and in *parts* of it there are pockets of
Spanish-speaking people, but not where we're at. So there's no real rush to
learn it, since we rarely come in contact with them. We're not even
suggesting that the kids *need* to learn a 2nd language other than english.
No big deal --to us.

Todd
------
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to ME! <g>
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html

Todd M.

At 04:16 PM 10/18/02 +0000, you wrote:

>There are many people here, who have been here for a long time, and have
>no desire to speak english.
>
>A pet peeve of mine.
>
>Mary B
==
But if they're obviously doing "okay" that way, then what's the problem? As
long as they can communicate with their circle, then that's all that
matters. IMO

Todd
------
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to ME! <g>
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html

Mary Bianco

>From: "Todd M." <Ozarkren@...>

<<But if they're obviously doing "okay" that way, then what's the problem?
As long as they can communicate with their circle, then that's all that
matters. IMO>>



Because their small circle extends out to my circle. Some of them actually
get hired at stores and do fine just ringing something up, but God forbid
you have a question, you have to actually go find someone else to help you
because they can't even do that. A very large mall in a prominent community
nearby has an awful lot of business from South Americans. For some reason,
instead of hiring bilingual, they only hire people who can speak spanish.
That's when I get bothered. That at when I call a business on the phone and
get someone who has no idea what I'm saying. I don't go to Little Haiti or
Little Havana to do business because I'm obviously at a disadvantage. But
where neighborhood people shop and speak English is another thing.

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
Broadband?�Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access.
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Tami

Hi Mary,

I understand what your saying, I really do! Being raised in Houston Texas
with the situation t you just described will make you more understanding.
However ; ) that is not what Todd was/is saying (from my reading of what he
said). He is saying that he and his family, living where they do now, an
english speaking (whatever)community, they do not need a different lanuage.
All they need is enlgish, they don't live somewhere that they NEED to be
bilingual. Alot of places are like that, where we live, there are no other
different languages spoken for probably 40+ miles. So here we dont need to
be bilingual at all. It is something my children have chose and I have
followed and enjoyed their interest in learning something new.

Peace,
Tami
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] language


> >From: "Todd M." <Ozarkren@...>
>
> <<But if they're obviously doing "okay" that way, then what's the problem?
> As long as they can communicate with their circle, then that's all that
> matters. IMO>>
>
>
>
> Because their small circle extends out to my circle. Some of them actually
> get hired at stores and do fine just ringing something up, but God forbid
> you have a question, you have to actually go find someone else to help you
> because they can't even do that. A very large mall in a prominent
community
> nearby has an awful lot of business from South Americans. For some reason,
> instead of hiring bilingual, they only hire people who can speak spanish.
> That's when I get bothered. That at when I call a business on the phone
and
> get someone who has no idea what I'm saying. I don't go to Little Haiti or
> Little Havana to do business because I'm obviously at a disadvantage. But
> where neighborhood people shop and speak English is another thing.
>
> Mary B
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Broadband? Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access.
> http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Todd M.

At 12:31 AM 10/19/02 -0500, you wrote:

>He is saying that he and his family, living where they do now, an
>english speaking (whatever)community, they do not need a different lanuage.
>All they need is enlgish, they don't live somewhere that they NEED to be
>bilingual.
==
Yep, that's what I was saying :-) Nice catch. <g>

Todd
------
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to ME! <g>
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html

[email protected]

>There are many people here, who have been here for a long time, and have
>no desire to speak english.
>
>A pet peeve of mine.
>
>Mary B
==
But if they're obviously doing "okay" that way, then what's the problem? As
long as they can communicate with their circle, then that's all that
matters. IMO

Todd

I lived in a Russian (then Soviet) immigrant community a looooooong time ago.
I remember talking with an old woman once while shopping. She was looking
for anbesol and I couldn't figure out what she meant - kept thinking it was
some Russian word I didn't know. When we resolved that she said that she'd
been told by her grandchildren that she should learn some English because
that's what everyone spoke around her. She said that she knew everyone in
the store spoke English, but when they got home, they all spoke Russian!
She'd left the Soviet Union after world war II.

Elizabeth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/18/02 11:18:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
mummyone24@... writes:


> What bothers me is the people here who speak no english what so ever and
> have no desire to learn. In the US, it's practical to think that english is
>
> what most people speak in business. When people from other countries come
> here, they figure on having to know or speak some english. There are many
> people here, who have been here for a long time, and have no desire to
> speak
> english.
>
> A pet peeve of mine.
>
> Mary B
>

This attitude bothers me. My Great-grandmother on my Mom's side came from
Sweden when she was in her early 20's. She tried to learn English but was
made fun of. Lucky for her she moved to Lindsborg, Ks, a Swedish town and she
never had to learn. I never heard her speak any English, she refused. On my
Dad's side; his Mom and her siblings came from Belgium. When his uncle went
to his first day of school, he couldn't speak English and the teacher told
him he wasn't allowed to talk until he learned English. He never went back.
He never learned English either. He did become very successful, owning lots
of land in the Kansas City Area. Now many of my Aunts and Uncles are rich
because of him. My own Grandma (his sister) had a hard time learning English,
she dropped out of school after completing 8th grade. She only went for three
years here in America. She became a Nanny for a couple here in Topeka and met
my Grandpa, he is the one who taught her to speak English.
I think this attitude of learn English or don't live here can be damaging to
people seeking that fabled land of plenty dream. While I agree that learning
the language of the country you live in is a good thing, I don't think it
should come with an either or *else* attitude.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

>From: Dnowens@...

<<I think this attitude of learn English or don't live here can be damaging
to people seeking that fabled land of plenty dream. While I agree that
learning the language of the country you live in is a good thing, I don't
think it should come with an either or *else* attitude.(snip)>>


I never said learn English or get out. But if you are working and supposedly
helping people in an area that caters to english speaking people, it makes
no sense to not at least try instead of shrugging your shoulders and sending
me off in search of someone who is willing to help do what they are being
paid to do. I actually blame the people who hired them more than the people
themselves.

Mary B



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mary krzyzanowski

Hi,
I think it's more useful and meaningful to learn a language when you will be
using it. I took Spanish in high school and never used it outside of class
until after college. I worked at a daycare and there was a 4yob adopted
from Guatamala(I think). He had limited Enlish skills. I would ask/tell
him something in English and then repeat it in Spanish (at least what I
could remember).
I took French in college (for something different and since I only knew 1
phrase and it wasn't very nice). Never used it again, unless reading
"Madeline" books to my children.
I learned some American Sign Language and fingerspelling. That was useful
when I worked with handicapped kids who used sign and talking to a college
classmate who was deaf and blind.
I learned some German before a trip to Germany about 3 years ago.
Each time (except for high school Spanish) I chose to learn the languages
for my own purposes.
Mary-NY

>From: "Tami" <angel1bunny@...>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] language
>Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:31:20 -0500
>
>
>Hi Mary,
>
>I understand what your saying, I really do! Being raised in Houston Texas
>with the situation t you just described will make you more understanding.
>However ; ) that is not what Todd was/is saying (from my reading of what he
>said). He is saying that he and his family, living where they do now, an
>english speaking (whatever)community, they do not need a different lanuage.
>All they need is enlgish, they don't live somewhere that they NEED to be
>bilingual. Alot of places are like that, where we live, there are no other
>different languages spoken for probably 40+ miles. So here we dont need to
>be bilingual at all. It is something my children have chose and I have
>followed and enjoyed their interest in learning something new.
>
>Peace,
>Tami
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
>To: <[email protected]>
>Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 7:30 PM
>Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] language
>
>
> > >From: "Todd M." <Ozarkren@...>
> >
> > <<But if they're obviously doing "okay" that way, then what's the
>problem?
> > As long as they can communicate with their circle, then that's all that
> > matters. IMO>>
> >
> >
> >
> > Because their small circle extends out to my circle. Some of them
>actually
> > get hired at stores and do fine just ringing something up, but God
>forbid
> > you have a question, you have to actually go find someone else to help
>you
> > because they can't even do that. A very large mall in a prominent
>community
> > nearby has an awful lot of business from South Americans. For some
>reason,
> > instead of hiring bilingual, they only hire people who can speak
>spanish.
> > That's when I get bothered. That at when I call a business on the phone
>and
> > get someone who has no idea what I'm saying. I don't go to Little Haiti
>or
> > Little Havana to do business because I'm obviously at a disadvantage.
>But
> > where neighborhood people shop and speak English is another thing.
> >
> > Mary B
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
>




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Deborah Lewis

>What bothers me is the people here who speak no english what so ever and

> have no desire to learn. In the US, it's practical to think that
english is
> what most people speak in business. When people from other countries
come
> here, they figure on having to know or speak some english. There are
many
> people here, who have been here for a long time, and have no desire to
> speak
> english.
> A pet peeve of mine.

When I lived in Alaska I worked in a shop owned by a Japanese couple. He
spoke English well, he'd learned it in school and used it when he
attended college in the US. She spoke some but I was always able to
understand her or figure out what she meant.
They held an open house, when their business was new, and invited their
friends from the large Japanese community in Anchorage. Myself and my co
worker were the only people who didn't speak Japanese there.
All the specialty candies and cookies and beverages had come from Japan
and I couldn't read any of the labels. We were serving guests at the
party and you can imagine how difficult it was to figure out what they
wanted and keep everyone happy. I was totally immersed in a different
culture and language. It was amazing and confusing and overwhelming and
it was only for a few hours. <g>
I had a kind of new understanding after that of what it must be like to
leave everything you know behind and start over in a new place where you
don't even speak the language.
Fusako was embarrassed by her English and tried not to speak it for fear
of saying something wrong and offending someone. She socialized mainly
with other Japanese speaking people because that's what was familiar and
where she felt at ease. When she did speak English there were always
comments about it and it embarrassed her. People can be pretty stupid
and it's never easy to talk to stupid people even when you can speak
their language.
I don't think she felt it was her duty to become fluent, although she
actually did. I think she was just trying to live her life like all of
us try to.

I used to live in Portland, OR and there are a lot of Spanish speaking
people there. There are lots of migrant workers in the summer and they
live and work with fellow Spanish speakers and taking all the time and
effort to become fluent is probably not workable option for them. Most
everyone I met though, could speak a little English. I never had
trouble understanding the cute boys.<g>

Deb L

Deborah Lewis

*** Lucky for her she moved to Lindsborg, Ks, a Swedish town and she
never had to learn. ***

I've been there!! We spent the night in a motel in Lindsborg in 1996.
What a beautiful little town, cobbled streets, lot's of tall people! We
bought Swedish salsa there, never heard of it before or since, but it was
good! I'm trying to remember if that was where we went to the muscle car
museum? Nice town.

Deb L