Re: Re: Math doubts
Thad Martin
hi,
i'm new to the group and am coming in the middle of this discussion but we use
the anno's books. it's kind of a series that is more about a way of thinking
mathematically than actual rote stuff. the books are recommended for ages 4 to 8
and have really great drawings. our son (whose 4) loves them so much we spend
an hour or so before bed (certainly not every night) doing math and he now says
'lets play math'. i think if one could think mathematically then all the other
stuff will fall into place much like reading. what i try to do is keep the
desire alive and for math this series works for rene'.
also if anyone uses this series i would love to talk about it. i have a very
weak grasp of math (i've learned a lot from the anno's book as well) and am
reading a number of different books on the subject of mathematical thinking.
i've also found a web site naturalmath.com which we are considering using (they
have an online program).
-susan
thad & rene' (4)
austin,tx
i'm new to the group and am coming in the middle of this discussion but we use
the anno's books. it's kind of a series that is more about a way of thinking
mathematically than actual rote stuff. the books are recommended for ages 4 to 8
and have really great drawings. our son (whose 4) loves them so much we spend
an hour or so before bed (certainly not every night) doing math and he now says
'lets play math'. i think if one could think mathematically then all the other
stuff will fall into place much like reading. what i try to do is keep the
desire alive and for math this series works for rene'.
also if anyone uses this series i would love to talk about it. i have a very
weak grasp of math (i've learned a lot from the anno's book as well) and am
reading a number of different books on the subject of mathematical thinking.
i've also found a web site naturalmath.com which we are considering using (they
have an online program).
-susan
thad & rene' (4)
austin,tx
Pam Hartley
----------
really well and I can quickly and efficiently add and subtract even large
numbers in my head. I loathe and fear higher math, and have since I flunked
Algebra. I have spent my life in three main careers -- dog trainer (not a
lot of advanced math required), bookseller (ditto) and... accountant. I was
a fine accountant. :) Worked my way up from Accounts Payable clerk to Cost
Accountant and never had to think about "higher math".
Now, take my husband (please! Da da dum! <g>). He can do no basic math
calculations in his head. He does not know his multiplication tables. He
uses a calculator to add 10 + 12, okay? But he's *really* good at advanced
math. He plays math games with his father (computer programmer) and they
think up math puzzles to challenge each other that make my teeth fall asleep
(the last one involved the calculation of the diameter of a roll of toilet
paper given some incredibly obscure variables that I can't even remember,
much less calculate). My husband is a Chief Estimator for a multi-million
dollar construction company and his JOB is to develop forumulas for
calculating such simple things as the cost of esoteric non-standard-sized
tiles and shelves in circular non-level rooms south of the Equator.
10 + 12, however, still eludes him.
You don't "need" constant reiteration for basic facts, math or otherwise. I
learned my basic math facts in the wink of an eye because I found them
useful and enjoyable. My husband, drilled like most of us for 12 full years,
still does not know them because he did *not* find them useful and
enjoyable. He uses his calculator for those and goes on to what he *does*
find useful and enjoyable. He also did not need "book time" to learn higher
math, just the interest to do so. Sure, many people who are interested in
higher math *do* sit down with books (Wally, though it is incomprehensible
to me <g>, wants to buy a bunch of math computer CDs and do the "book
learning" that he never did in school. He's 43. This woman's teenage son has
years yet.)
Math gets a bad rap. So many of us buy into the "it's hard" or "it has to be
repeated daily" or "it must be taught in certain steps" that shaking free of
that can be a real feat.
Math is no harder than training a dog.
Math is no more useful than knowing how to sew a straight seam.
Math does not require slavish, daily repetition to master basic concepts.
The surest way to kill a child's (or adult's) interest in something is to
force it. Your friend obviously wishes her son were more interested in and
skilled in math, but if he's not, he's not, and there is nothing holding him
back but himself. He can sit down tomorrow with a stack of math books and
provided he has the real interest, he can learn it. He could have been
drilled at the kitchen table daily for 10 years and if he found it
mind-numbing and boring and not pertinent to his life, he'd be like my
husband.
We have until we die to learn 10 + 12, and if we die and we still haven't
learned it, obviously we didn't need it after all. :)
Pam
>From: [email protected]I am a whiz at basic math calculations. I know my multiplication tables
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 304
>Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999, 3:35 PM
>
>OR do I agree with my friend, who, if she had to do it over again with her
>unschooled son, said she would definitely have unschooled everything EXCEPT
>math because it's something you need constant reiteration on for basic facts,
>and there are many advanced principles (geometry, fractions, algebra, etc.)
>that need "book time," where you sit down and teach them math just about once
>every day....?
really well and I can quickly and efficiently add and subtract even large
numbers in my head. I loathe and fear higher math, and have since I flunked
Algebra. I have spent my life in three main careers -- dog trainer (not a
lot of advanced math required), bookseller (ditto) and... accountant. I was
a fine accountant. :) Worked my way up from Accounts Payable clerk to Cost
Accountant and never had to think about "higher math".
Now, take my husband (please! Da da dum! <g>). He can do no basic math
calculations in his head. He does not know his multiplication tables. He
uses a calculator to add 10 + 12, okay? But he's *really* good at advanced
math. He plays math games with his father (computer programmer) and they
think up math puzzles to challenge each other that make my teeth fall asleep
(the last one involved the calculation of the diameter of a roll of toilet
paper given some incredibly obscure variables that I can't even remember,
much less calculate). My husband is a Chief Estimator for a multi-million
dollar construction company and his JOB is to develop forumulas for
calculating such simple things as the cost of esoteric non-standard-sized
tiles and shelves in circular non-level rooms south of the Equator.
10 + 12, however, still eludes him.
You don't "need" constant reiteration for basic facts, math or otherwise. I
learned my basic math facts in the wink of an eye because I found them
useful and enjoyable. My husband, drilled like most of us for 12 full years,
still does not know them because he did *not* find them useful and
enjoyable. He uses his calculator for those and goes on to what he *does*
find useful and enjoyable. He also did not need "book time" to learn higher
math, just the interest to do so. Sure, many people who are interested in
higher math *do* sit down with books (Wally, though it is incomprehensible
to me <g>, wants to buy a bunch of math computer CDs and do the "book
learning" that he never did in school. He's 43. This woman's teenage son has
years yet.)
Math gets a bad rap. So many of us buy into the "it's hard" or "it has to be
repeated daily" or "it must be taught in certain steps" that shaking free of
that can be a real feat.
Math is no harder than training a dog.
Math is no more useful than knowing how to sew a straight seam.
Math does not require slavish, daily repetition to master basic concepts.
The surest way to kill a child's (or adult's) interest in something is to
force it. Your friend obviously wishes her son were more interested in and
skilled in math, but if he's not, he's not, and there is nothing holding him
back but himself. He can sit down tomorrow with a stack of math books and
provided he has the real interest, he can learn it. He could have been
drilled at the kitchen table daily for 10 years and if he found it
mind-numbing and boring and not pertinent to his life, he'd be like my
husband.
We have until we die to learn 10 + 12, and if we die and we still haven't
learned it, obviously we didn't need it after all. :)
Pam
[email protected]
I think that what you are talking about is calculation--which is a small part
of math.
We all use math constantly--when we cook, go to the store, rearrange
furniture(proportion), select clothing (also proportion). Look at the centers
of flowers, and observe the patterns in nature. Listen to music (the scale
is 8 notes). Put together puzzles. Make tessalations..... We are surrounded
by mathmatical thinking--where we tend to get stuck is arithmetic IMO
Debra
of math.
We all use math constantly--when we cook, go to the store, rearrange
furniture(proportion), select clothing (also proportion). Look at the centers
of flowers, and observe the patterns in nature. Listen to music (the scale
is 8 notes). Put together puzzles. Make tessalations..... We are surrounded
by mathmatical thinking--where we tend to get stuck is arithmetic IMO
Debra
[email protected]
Try www.naturalmath.com . It's a great site
Debra
Debra
[email protected]
Pam wrote:
<< We have until we die to learn 10 + 12, and if we die and we still haven't
learned it, obviously we didn't need it after all. :) >>
Pam;
Thanks for this. This is one of the best posts and best stories I've heard
shared about the math anxiety question that always comes up on unschooling
lists (and in my mind, too!)
I'm printing it out to read at those shaky times!
Thanks again!
Carol from WI
<< We have until we die to learn 10 + 12, and if we die and we still haven't
learned it, obviously we didn't need it after all. :) >>
Pam;
Thanks for this. This is one of the best posts and best stories I've heard
shared about the math anxiety question that always comes up on unschooling
lists (and in my mind, too!)
I'm printing it out to read at those shaky times!
Thanks again!
Carol from WI
Amy Aybar
<Pam; Thanks for this. This is one of the best posts and best stories I've
heard>
Same here. It's wonderful. Great examples of learning differences. I hope
you don't mind but I'm keeping this to give to others when they question me
about math and my methods.
Amy
Mom to Carlos (6) and Sasha (4)
heard>
Same here. It's wonderful. Great examples of learning differences. I hope
you don't mind but I'm keeping this to give to others when they question me
about math and my methods.
Amy
Mom to Carlos (6) and Sasha (4)
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/19/99 7:00:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
pamhartley@... writes:
<< I am a whiz at basic math calculations. I know my multiplication tables
really well and I can quickly and efficiently add and subtract even large
numbers in my head. I loathe and fear higher math, and have since I flunked
Algebra. >>
I had never thought about this like you put it. I too caught on to all basic
math functions very easy. With just a bit of refresher I can still do
anything with fractions and decimals too. Measurement is no problem, I have
my math facts down pat. I loved arithmetic right off. Reading never gave me a
problem either but....I have an advanced math phobia. I could probably do it
if I had to, however since I've never needed it for anything other than
helping with homework I haven't bothered. I have been able to get by having
an older child help out.
It does bug me though that I don't know calculus, etc. Maybe someday I'll
try.
Laura
pamhartley@... writes:
<< I am a whiz at basic math calculations. I know my multiplication tables
really well and I can quickly and efficiently add and subtract even large
numbers in my head. I loathe and fear higher math, and have since I flunked
Algebra. >>
I had never thought about this like you put it. I too caught on to all basic
math functions very easy. With just a bit of refresher I can still do
anything with fractions and decimals too. Measurement is no problem, I have
my math facts down pat. I loved arithmetic right off. Reading never gave me a
problem either but....I have an advanced math phobia. I could probably do it
if I had to, however since I've never needed it for anything other than
helping with homework I haven't bothered. I have been able to get by having
an older child help out.
It does bug me though that I don't know calculus, etc. Maybe someday I'll
try.
Laura
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/19/99 8:24:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Buresmom@... writes:
<< We are surrounded
by mathmatical thinking--where we tend to get stuck is arithmetic IMO >>
Come to think of it I think your right, but it looks so good on paper.LOL
I really love to have those nice little papers to show daddy that we are
learning here in hs land. Unschooling is so hard to do.
Laura
Buresmom@... writes:
<< We are surrounded
by mathmatical thinking--where we tend to get stuck is arithmetic IMO >>
Come to think of it I think your right, but it looks so good on paper.LOL
I really love to have those nice little papers to show daddy that we are
learning here in hs land. Unschooling is so hard to do.
Laura
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/19/99 11:31:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Burkfamily@... writes:
<< I'm printing it out to read at those shaky times!
Thanks again! >>
Me too!!
Laura
Burkfamily@... writes:
<< I'm printing it out to read at those shaky times!
Thanks again! >>
Me too!!
Laura
Joel Hawthorne
I just wanted to join the chorus of thanks for this great post. You said all I
wanted to say but I couldn't find the words. Thanks again for the eloquence.
Pam Hartley wrote:
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
wanted to say but I couldn't find the words. Thanks again for the eloquence.
Pam Hartley wrote:
> From: "Pam Hartley" <pamhartley@...>snip
>
> ----------
> >From: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 304
> >Date: Fri, Nov 19, 1999, 3:35 PM
> >
>
> >OR do I agree with my friend, who, if she had to do it over again with her
> >unschooled son, said she would definitely have unschooled everything EXCEPT
> >math because it's something you need constant reiteration on for basic facts,
>best wishes
>
> The surest way to kill a child's (or adult's) interest in something is to
> force it. Your friend obviously wishes her son were more interested in and
> skilled in math, but if he's not, he's not, and there is nothing holding him
> back but himself. He can sit down tomorrow with a stack of math books and
> provided he has the real interest, he can learn it. He could have been
> drilled at the kitchen table daily for 10 years and if he found it
> mind-numbing and boring and not pertinent to his life, he'd be like my
> husband.
>
> We have until we die to learn 10 + 12, and if we die and we still haven't
> learned it, obviously we didn't need it after all. :)
>
> Pam
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
[email protected]
Goodness, there are so many things I would love to know more about. And
only 40 to 60 years left. I better get moving!! LOL!
Mary Ellen
Snowflakes are on of nature's most fragile things,
but just look at what they can do
when they stick together.
Laura>>>
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
only 40 to 60 years left. I better get moving!! LOL!
Mary Ellen
Snowflakes are on of nature's most fragile things,
but just look at what they can do
when they stick together.
>>> It does bug me though that I don't know calculus, etc. Maybesomeday I'll try.
Laura>>>
___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.