limits
Myranda
OK, let the advice come! <bg>
Bedtimes - We have no set bedtimes, but DH and I both start our days at 6 am. He has a very physically draining job he's at 10 hrs a day, I am always up and down and running here and there with the kids. We're both totally bushed by 11 pm. Both boys are always still up and going at that time if I let them, I usually send them to bed around 10-10:30ish so they'll be asleep before I pass out. They both fall asleep within 5-10 minutes, so I know they're tired. They never protest or ask to stay up longer. No matter what time they go to bed, they're up by 6:30 am, have been since they were a year old. I can't let them stay up alone, they just get into fights and end up hurting each other, and they get so loud they wake everyone else up. They will also go outside, and that scares me. Do y'all think I'm being too "controlling" by telling them to go to bed, and if so what do you think I should be doing differently?
Myranda 8-)
WAH,HS,M
Married to Daniel since 12/31/94
Brett 9/4/95
Tyler 1/22/97
Cassidy 1/19/02
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bedtimes - We have no set bedtimes, but DH and I both start our days at 6 am. He has a very physically draining job he's at 10 hrs a day, I am always up and down and running here and there with the kids. We're both totally bushed by 11 pm. Both boys are always still up and going at that time if I let them, I usually send them to bed around 10-10:30ish so they'll be asleep before I pass out. They both fall asleep within 5-10 minutes, so I know they're tired. They never protest or ask to stay up longer. No matter what time they go to bed, they're up by 6:30 am, have been since they were a year old. I can't let them stay up alone, they just get into fights and end up hurting each other, and they get so loud they wake everyone else up. They will also go outside, and that scares me. Do y'all think I'm being too "controlling" by telling them to go to bed, and if so what do you think I should be doing differently?
Myranda 8-)
WAH,HS,M
Married to Daniel since 12/31/94
Brett 9/4/95
Tyler 1/22/97
Cassidy 1/19/02
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
----------
"Hey, guys, you know how I always tell you to go to bed? Well, are you okay
with that or do you want to try something different?"
Different could be you go sleep in their room for a few months. Different
could be they come sleep in your room. Different could be they make the
agreement to not bash each other <g> and you see how that goes.
The nice thing about tossing out the limits is, it frees up everybody's
creativity.
Pam
>From: [email protected]You could ask them. :)
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2493
>Date: Wed, Oct 16, 2002, 12:41 PM
>
> Bedtimes - We have no set bedtimes, but DH and I both start our days at 6
> am. He has a very physically draining job he's at 10 hrs a day, I am always
> up and down and running here and there with the kids. We're both totally
> bushed by 11 pm. Both boys are always still up and going at that time if I
> let them, I usually send them to bed around 10-10:30ish so they'll be
> asleep before I pass out. They both fall asleep within 5-10 minutes, so I
> know they're tired. They never protest or ask to stay up longer. No matter
> what time they go to bed, they're up by 6:30 am, have been since they were
> a year old. I can't let them stay up alone, they just get into fights and
> end up hurting each other, and they get so loud they wake everyone else up.
> They will also go outside, and that scares me. Do y'all think I'm being too
> "controlling" by telling them to go to bed, and if so what do you think I
> should be doing differently?
"Hey, guys, you know how I always tell you to go to bed? Well, are you okay
with that or do you want to try something different?"
Different could be you go sleep in their room for a few months. Different
could be they come sleep in your room. Different could be they make the
agreement to not bash each other <g> and you see how that goes.
The nice thing about tossing out the limits is, it frees up everybody's
creativity.
Pam
Myranda
They say they want to never go to bed. <g> Tyler swears he never goes to sleep!
I can't sleep in their room, I have to sleep with the baby or she doesn't sleep. I sleep in the living room, and they do sometimes join me, especially when it storms or when there's something good on TV. Oh, and they've made the agreement not to hit, not to leave the house without letting someone know, etc, but they always do it anyway, saying "they forgot" the agreement or they "just wanted to do it" or "it's more fun". Maybe they just need to get a tad bit older?
Myranda
From: Pam Hartley
You could ask them. :)
"Hey, guys, you know how I always tell you to go to bed? Well, are you okay
with that or do you want to try something different?"
Different could be you go sleep in their room for a few months. Different
could be they come sleep in your room. Different could be they make the
agreement to not bash each other <g> and you see how that goes.
The nice thing about tossing out the limits is, it frees up everybody's
creativity.
Pam
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I can't sleep in their room, I have to sleep with the baby or she doesn't sleep. I sleep in the living room, and they do sometimes join me, especially when it storms or when there's something good on TV. Oh, and they've made the agreement not to hit, not to leave the house without letting someone know, etc, but they always do it anyway, saying "they forgot" the agreement or they "just wanted to do it" or "it's more fun". Maybe they just need to get a tad bit older?
Myranda
From: Pam Hartley
You could ask them. :)
"Hey, guys, you know how I always tell you to go to bed? Well, are you okay
with that or do you want to try something different?"
Different could be you go sleep in their room for a few months. Different
could be they come sleep in your room. Different could be they make the
agreement to not bash each other <g> and you see how that goes.
The nice thing about tossing out the limits is, it frees up everybody's
creativity.
Pam
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 16:12 10/16/02 -0400, Myranda wrote:
kid-like things, we're going to be disappointed, and so might they (sorry
for the weird grammar!). It may be better for everyone concerned to
brainstorm to find alternatives or something like that, but I wouldn't ask
someone to make an agreement to go against behavior that a 5- or 7-year-old
might see as an entirely reasonable action at the time. In other words, we
need to remember that 5- and 7-year-olds act like 5- and 7-year-olds, and
we mustn't expect more of them than they are able to do.
Ugh! I don't think I'm making any sense at all. Good luck deciphering!
~marji~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>They say they want to never go to bed. <g> Tyler swears he never goes toHe's a sweet and lively little fellow for never sleeping! <g>
>sleep!
>Oh, and they've made the agreement not to hit, not to leave the houseI'm pretty sure that if we ask our young kids for agreements not to do
>without letting someone know, etc, but they always do it anyway, saying
>"they forgot" the agreement or they "just wanted to do it" or "it's more
>fun". Maybe they just need to get a tad bit older?
kid-like things, we're going to be disappointed, and so might they (sorry
for the weird grammar!). It may be better for everyone concerned to
brainstorm to find alternatives or something like that, but I wouldn't ask
someone to make an agreement to go against behavior that a 5- or 7-year-old
might see as an entirely reasonable action at the time. In other words, we
need to remember that 5- and 7-year-olds act like 5- and 7-year-olds, and
we mustn't expect more of them than they are able to do.
Ugh! I don't think I'm making any sense at all. Good luck deciphering!
~marji~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachel Ann
With one of my children I would make a safe area to play while I slept nearby. This could be in your children's room, or in the living room, or by your room, with the door open, for instance, and a gate blocking the stairs, even a young child could be left to play while mom and dad slept in the adjoining room. That way you could monitor fights.
I'm more concerned about their going out at night alone. That would worry me. Perhpas you need to make clear that you are willing to allow them to stay up and play, but not if they go outside/fight. That if they do that they need to stay in their room(s)? Yes that is limiting, but I'm not totally against limits.
However, if they aren't protesting your sending them up then perhaps it really isn't limiting them in anyway. Perhaps it feels good to them in some way. I know there are those who would protest that, however, your children aren't putting up a fight, or beg for just one moment. Maybe they like how things are.
be well,
Rachel Ann
I'm more concerned about their going out at night alone. That would worry me. Perhpas you need to make clear that you are willing to allow them to stay up and play, but not if they go outside/fight. That if they do that they need to stay in their room(s)? Yes that is limiting, but I'm not totally against limits.
However, if they aren't protesting your sending them up then perhaps it really isn't limiting them in anyway. Perhaps it feels good to them in some way. I know there are those who would protest that, however, your children aren't putting up a fight, or beg for just one moment. Maybe they like how things are.
be well,
Rachel Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: Myranda
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 2:20 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] limits
OK, let the advice come! <bg>
Bedtimes - We have no set bedtimes, but DH and I both start our days at 6 am. He has a very physically draining job he's at 10 hrs a day, I am always up and down and running here and there with the kids. We're both totally bushed by 11 pm. Both boys are always still up and going at that time if I let them, I usually send them to bed around 10-10:30ish so they'll be asleep before I pass out. They both fall asleep within 5-10 minutes, so I know they're tired. They never protest or ask to stay up longer. No matter what time they go to bed, they're up by 6:30 am, have been since they were a year old. I can't let them stay up alone, they just get into fights and end up hurting each other, and they get so loud they wake everyone else up. They will also go outside, and that scares me. Do y'all think I'm being too "controlling" by telling them to go to bed, and if so what do you think I should be doing differently?
Myranda 8-)
WAH,HS,M
Married to Daniel since 12/31/94
Brett 9/4/95
Tyler 1/22/97
Cassidy 1/19/02
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
From: Marji
He's a sweet and lively little fellow for never sleeping! <g>
**Isn't he tho? Wouldn't I love to be able to be as alert as him without sleeping! <bg>
I'm pretty sure that if we ask our young kids for agreements not to do
kid-like things, we're going to be disappointed, and so might they (sorry
for the weird grammar!). It may be better for everyone concerned to
brainstorm to find alternatives or something like that, but I wouldn't ask
someone to make an agreement to go against behavior that a 5- or 7-year-old
might see as an entirely reasonable action at the time. In other words, we
need to remember that 5- and 7-year-olds act like 5- and 7-year-olds, and
we mustn't expect more of them than they are able to do.
Ugh! I don't think I'm making any sense at all. Good luck deciphering!
~marji~
**LOL Makes sense to me. I'm thinking that the "bedtime whenever you feel like it" is expecting a bit much from them at this age where they can't be left alone. Once they get a couple years older, and hopefully find better things to do than beat up on each other, I won't have a problem leaving them up while I sleep, and letting them sleep all day if they want to. Goodness knows, I'm a much better-functioning person if I stay up nights and sleep days, but that just doesn't work nowdays. LOL
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
He's a sweet and lively little fellow for never sleeping! <g>
**Isn't he tho? Wouldn't I love to be able to be as alert as him without sleeping! <bg>
I'm pretty sure that if we ask our young kids for agreements not to do
kid-like things, we're going to be disappointed, and so might they (sorry
for the weird grammar!). It may be better for everyone concerned to
brainstorm to find alternatives or something like that, but I wouldn't ask
someone to make an agreement to go against behavior that a 5- or 7-year-old
might see as an entirely reasonable action at the time. In other words, we
need to remember that 5- and 7-year-olds act like 5- and 7-year-olds, and
we mustn't expect more of them than they are able to do.
Ugh! I don't think I'm making any sense at all. Good luck deciphering!
~marji~
**LOL Makes sense to me. I'm thinking that the "bedtime whenever you feel like it" is expecting a bit much from them at this age where they can't be left alone. Once they get a couple years older, and hopefully find better things to do than beat up on each other, I won't have a problem leaving them up while I sleep, and letting them sleep all day if they want to. Goodness knows, I'm a much better-functioning person if I stay up nights and sleep days, but that just doesn't work nowdays. LOL
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
From: Rachel Ann
With one of my children I would make a safe area to play while I slept nearby. This could be in your children's room, or in the living room, or by your room, with the door open, for instance, and a gate blocking the stairs, even a young child could be left to play while mom and dad slept in the adjoining room. That way you could monitor fights.
**That would work, if they'd be quiet enough for the rest of us to sleep. <g> Brett has no concept of a "whisper" or even a low speaking voice, he yells everything! Maybe we need to find some games to play that use quiet voices.
I'm more concerned about their going out at night alone. That would worry me. Perhpas you need to make clear that you are willing to allow them to stay up and play, but not if they go outside/fight. That if they do that they need to stay in their room(s)? Yes that is limiting, but I'm not totally against limits.
**Yes, they are usually happy in their rooms, for a time anyway. But when left unsupervised, they run in and out of each other's room, taking toys and other items, and of course, hitting. Brett's usually the one who does the hitting and hurting, Tyler just takes it, bless his heart!
However, if they aren't protesting your sending them up then perhaps it really isn't limiting them in some way. I know there are those who would protest that, however, your children aren't putting up a fight, or beg for just one moment. Maybe they like how things are.
** Haven't looked at it that way. Bedtimes are about the one and only subject they won't really give me any answers about when I ask them. The only thing they'll say is that they never want to go to sleep, and that they don't know. Maybe it's because they really don't have a preferance at this point?
Myranda
be well,
Rachel Ann
With one of my children I would make a safe area to play while I slept nearby. This could be in your children's room, or in the living room, or by your room, with the door open, for instance, and a gate blocking the stairs, even a young child could be left to play while mom and dad slept in the adjoining room. That way you could monitor fights.
**That would work, if they'd be quiet enough for the rest of us to sleep. <g> Brett has no concept of a "whisper" or even a low speaking voice, he yells everything! Maybe we need to find some games to play that use quiet voices.
I'm more concerned about their going out at night alone. That would worry me. Perhpas you need to make clear that you are willing to allow them to stay up and play, but not if they go outside/fight. That if they do that they need to stay in their room(s)? Yes that is limiting, but I'm not totally against limits.
**Yes, they are usually happy in their rooms, for a time anyway. But when left unsupervised, they run in and out of each other's room, taking toys and other items, and of course, hitting. Brett's usually the one who does the hitting and hurting, Tyler just takes it, bless his heart!
However, if they aren't protesting your sending them up then perhaps it really isn't limiting them in some way. I know there are those who would protest that, however, your children aren't putting up a fight, or beg for just one moment. Maybe they like how things are.
** Haven't looked at it that way. Bedtimes are about the one and only subject they won't really give me any answers about when I ask them. The only thing they'll say is that they never want to go to sleep, and that they don't know. Maybe it's because they really don't have a preferance at this point?
Myranda
be well,
Rachel Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: Myranda
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 2:20 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] limits
OK, let the advice come! <bg>
Bedtimes - We have no set bedtimes, but DH and I both start our days at 6 am. He has a very physically draining job he's at 10 hrs a day, I am always up and down and running here and there with the kids. We're both totally bushed by 11 pm. Both boys are always still up and going at that time if I let them, I usually send them to bed around 10-10:30ish so they'll be asleep before I pass out. They both fall asleep within 5-10 minutes, so I know they're tired. They never protest or ask to stay up longer. No matter what time they go to bed, they're up by 6:30 am, have been since they were a year old. I can't let them stay up alone, they just get into fights and end up hurting each other, and they get so loud they wake everyone else up. They will also go outside, and that scares me. Do y'all think I'm being too "controlling" by telling them to go to bed, and if so what do you think I should be doing differently?
Myranda 8-)
WAH,HS,M
Married to Daniel since 12/31/94
Brett 9/4/95
Tyler 1/22/97
Cassidy 1/19/02
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Kelli Traaseth
Myranda, I am also running into the same thing with my 5 yr. dd, She gets so exhausted that she cries over everything and even when I say, lets go snuggle and read together, she knows it leads to bed so she is very feisty with it. For us its best if we start some 'down' time around 8:00 or so and then slowly winds down and we can play a little and read a little.
Now tonight she was yelling at me and crying several times, finally she decided it was OK if dad lays with her and reads a book.
So, I am also struggling with this, my 7 and 9 year olds seem to have come to grips with the bed thing. But it seems like Kyra, the 5 yr old, doesn't know quite what to do yet.
Now I am going to try and unwind and get some rest.
Kelli
Myranda <myrandab@...> wrote:
From: Marji
He's a sweet and lively little fellow for never sleeping! <g>
**Isn't he tho? Wouldn't I love to be able to be as alert as him without sleeping! <bg>
I'm pretty sure that if we ask our young kids for agreements not to do
kid-like things, we're going to be disappointed, and so might they (sorry
for the weird grammar!). It may be better for everyone concerned to
brainstorm to find alternatives or something like that, but I wouldn't ask
someone to make an agreement to go against behavior that a 5- or 7-year-old
might see as an entirely reasonable action at the time. In other words, we
need to remember that 5- and 7-year-olds act like 5- and 7-year-olds, and
we mustn't expect more of them than they are able to do.
Ugh! I don't think I'm making any sense at all. Good luck deciphering!
~marji~
**LOL Makes sense to me. I'm thinking that the "bedtime whenever you feel like it" is expecting a bit much from them at this age where they can't be left alone. Once they get a couple years older, and hopefully find better things to do than beat up on each other, I won't have a problem leaving them up while I sleep, and letting them sleep all day if they want to. Goodness knows, I'm a much better-functioning person if I stay up nights and sleep days, but that just doesn't work nowdays. LOL
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now tonight she was yelling at me and crying several times, finally she decided it was OK if dad lays with her and reads a book.
So, I am also struggling with this, my 7 and 9 year olds seem to have come to grips with the bed thing. But it seems like Kyra, the 5 yr old, doesn't know quite what to do yet.
Now I am going to try and unwind and get some rest.
Kelli
Myranda <myrandab@...> wrote:
From: Marji
He's a sweet and lively little fellow for never sleeping! <g>
**Isn't he tho? Wouldn't I love to be able to be as alert as him without sleeping! <bg>
I'm pretty sure that if we ask our young kids for agreements not to do
kid-like things, we're going to be disappointed, and so might they (sorry
for the weird grammar!). It may be better for everyone concerned to
brainstorm to find alternatives or something like that, but I wouldn't ask
someone to make an agreement to go against behavior that a 5- or 7-year-old
might see as an entirely reasonable action at the time. In other words, we
need to remember that 5- and 7-year-olds act like 5- and 7-year-olds, and
we mustn't expect more of them than they are able to do.
Ugh! I don't think I'm making any sense at all. Good luck deciphering!
~marji~
**LOL Makes sense to me. I'm thinking that the "bedtime whenever you feel like it" is expecting a bit much from them at this age where they can't be left alone. Once they get a couple years older, and hopefully find better things to do than beat up on each other, I won't have a problem leaving them up while I sleep, and letting them sleep all day if they want to. Goodness knows, I'm a much better-functioning person if I stay up nights and sleep days, but that just doesn't work nowdays. LOL
Myranda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> I can't sleep in their room, I have to sleep with the baby or she doesn'tsleep. I sleep in the living room, and they do sometimes join me, especially
when it storms or when there's something good on TV. Oh, and they've made
the agreement not to hit, not to leave the house without letting someone
know, etc, but they always do it anyway, saying "they forgot" the agreement
or they "just wanted to do it" or "it's more fun". Maybe they just need to
get a tad bit older?
For the going outside thing, can you put the kind of lock on the doors that
needs a key to open? Or a latch that they can't reach? As to the fighting,
how about asking how they think it should be dealt with. They might have
some ideas.
Tia
Myranda
Good idea, I need to look at some latches and see what we can install. We've got a regular front door, and two sliding doors. Especially with the baby starting to walk, I want some way to secure them. I can just see one of them running out and leaving the door wide open for the baby to go out! About the fighting, we've all talked to them about it over and over, asked what causes it, what can be done to stop it, etc. Brett simply wants to hurt Tyler when Tyler does something he doesn't like. According to him, the only way to stop it is to keep Tyler away from him and quiet all the time, and that certainly isn't possible! The last time it happened, Brett slammed Tyler's head into the doorframe because Tyler had turned the fan on in his room, and Brett didn't like the noise. It's definitely fun around here sometimes!
Myranda
For the going outside thing, can you put the kind of lock on the doors that
needs a key to open? Or a latch that they can't reach? As to the fighting,
how about asking how they think it should be dealt with. They might have
some ideas.
Tia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
For the going outside thing, can you put the kind of lock on the doors that
needs a key to open? Or a latch that they can't reach? As to the fighting,
how about asking how they think it should be dealt with. They might have
some ideas.
Tia
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
> Good idea, I need to look at some latches and see what we can install.We've got a regular front door, and two sliding doors. Especially with the
baby starting to walk, I want some way to secure them. I can just see one of
them running out and leaving the door wide open for the baby to go out!
This happened not long ago with my barely two year old grandson. Twice,
they discovered he was missing and ended up finding him at the edge of or
actually *on* a busy road. Yikes! The front door now has furniture in
front of it, the back door leads to a fenced back yard, and the side door is
locked with a lock he can't undo.
Tia
Myranda
Oh, that would be so scary!! We've always lived in the boonies, and you can't even see a road from where we are now, but there's a lot of mean dogs and barbed wire and electric fences around here that I'd be scared of!
Myranda
This happened not long ago with my barely two year old grandson. Twice,
they discovered he was missing and ended up finding him at the edge of or
actually *on* a busy road. Yikes! The front door now has furniture in
front of it, the back door leads to a fenced back yard, and the side door is
locked with a lock he can't undo.
Tia
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Myranda
This happened not long ago with my barely two year old grandson. Twice,
they discovered he was missing and ended up finding him at the edge of or
actually *on* a busy road. Yikes! The front door now has furniture in
front of it, the back door leads to a fenced back yard, and the side door is
locked with a lock he can't undo.
Tia
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In a message dated 10/16/02 3:17:30 PM, hindar@... writes:
<< I'm more concerned about their going out at night alone. That would worry
me. Perhpas you need to make clear that you are willing to allow them to
stay up and play, but not if they go outside/fight. That if they do that
they need to stay in their room(s)? Yes that is limiting, but I'm not totally
against limits. >>
Just last night I told boys who are 13, 14 and 14 to STAY IN THE HOUSE. It
was 11:30, Marty had two overnight guests, and I heard the troublemaker of
the batch say "Well let's go outside." I said people were trying to sleep
and they needed to stay inside and do something quiet.
Had it been a Saturday night with adults in the house and had I not been
stuck on the couch I might have been more likely to negotiate or to inquire
as to why they wanted to go outside and how quiet they were going to be.
It's not a forever rule about in or out. It was that last night I didn't
want them going out. They accepted it really well, because they knew it was
iffy about them coming over anyway since my broken leg is living in the den
this week.
Sandra
<< I'm more concerned about their going out at night alone. That would worry
me. Perhpas you need to make clear that you are willing to allow them to
stay up and play, but not if they go outside/fight. That if they do that
they need to stay in their room(s)? Yes that is limiting, but I'm not totally
against limits. >>
Just last night I told boys who are 13, 14 and 14 to STAY IN THE HOUSE. It
was 11:30, Marty had two overnight guests, and I heard the troublemaker of
the batch say "Well let's go outside." I said people were trying to sleep
and they needed to stay inside and do something quiet.
Had it been a Saturday night with adults in the house and had I not been
stuck on the couch I might have been more likely to negotiate or to inquire
as to why they wanted to go outside and how quiet they were going to be.
It's not a forever rule about in or out. It was that last night I didn't
want them going out. They accepted it really well, because they knew it was
iffy about them coming over anyway since my broken leg is living in the den
this week.
Sandra