Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: "Words will never hurt me"
Myranda
For the record, I did not make up the nickname lazybones, my son started using it himself after hearing me call our cat that one day. I must say, your MIL must be a very dense woman if she could not see what her comments were doing to your husband.
Myranda
I've been very busy lately and am just now catching up on this list. I have
to comment on the "lazybones", nicknames issue. My MIL says everything with a
smile, no matter how negative. The last time she visited she talked about how
lazy my husband was as a child, she laughed and talked about it in a
good-natured way. I watched my husband smile and wince the whole time. I've
lived with him for 12 years I know it hurt him, she doesn't acknowledge it or
know it. My husband tends to excuse everything she says even if he doesn't
like it, because she says everything so "lovingly". If he calls her on it,
who looks like the spoilsport? She's just being affectionate, right? The
mother who calls her son lazybones writes in one of her posts that the son
enjoys the nickname. Well maybe he sees that you enjoy it and approve of it,
it doesn't mean he enjoys it. It may take him years to admit that he hates
it, just like it has my husband. Children usually can't sort out complex
emotions and feelings until much later. Right now all he knows is Mommy finds
"lazybones" cute, later on he may realize that Mommy was comparing him to his
more active sibling, negatively. You may say it's not a negative comparison
but the first post on this "lazy" issue spoke volumns, every post after that
is just defensiveness. I'm not trying to be mean, just truthful. I've
unconsciously done the labeling thing to my own son. Fortunately I've had
friends and family call me on it and I've taken into account what they have to
say. Other people are not always right in their opinion but I figure if the
issue is presenting itself to me there is a damn good reason and I better look
at it closely before I dismiss it. I'd urge you to do the same.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
I've been very busy lately and am just now catching up on this list. I have
to comment on the "lazybones", nicknames issue. My MIL says everything with a
smile, no matter how negative. The last time she visited she talked about how
lazy my husband was as a child, she laughed and talked about it in a
good-natured way. I watched my husband smile and wince the whole time. I've
lived with him for 12 years I know it hurt him, she doesn't acknowledge it or
know it. My husband tends to excuse everything she says even if he doesn't
like it, because she says everything so "lovingly". If he calls her on it,
who looks like the spoilsport? She's just being affectionate, right? The
mother who calls her son lazybones writes in one of her posts that the son
enjoys the nickname. Well maybe he sees that you enjoy it and approve of it,
it doesn't mean he enjoys it. It may take him years to admit that he hates
it, just like it has my husband. Children usually can't sort out complex
emotions and feelings until much later. Right now all he knows is Mommy finds
"lazybones" cute, later on he may realize that Mommy was comparing him to his
more active sibling, negatively. You may say it's not a negative comparison
but the first post on this "lazy" issue spoke volumns, every post after that
is just defensiveness. I'm not trying to be mean, just truthful. I've
unconsciously done the labeling thing to my own son. Fortunately I've had
friends and family call me on it and I've taken into account what they have to
say. Other people are not always right in their opinion but I figure if the
issue is presenting itself to me there is a damn good reason and I better look
at it closely before I dismiss it. I'd urge you to do the same.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elissa Cleaveland
--- Myranda <myrandab@...> wrote:
I must say,
and that her son enjoyed it.
ElissaJill
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
I must say,
> your MIL must be a very dense woman if she could notOr maybe she truly believed that she was being loving
> see what her comments were doing to your husband.
> Myranda
and that her son enjoyed it.
ElissaJill
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com
margotapple
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Myranda" <myrandab@b...> wrote:
must say, your MIL must be a very dense woman if she could not see
what her comments were doing to your husband.
journey. We don't know everything and we learn as we go. You want to
call your son a cute little name that is cute only to you and the rest
of the world finds dismissive and hurtful?
My sisters hit their kids with wooden spoons when the children were
younger. Now, they don't want to talk about how that might have been
harmful to their children. There are many adults like them because
this is how many of us grew up ourselves as children, with blows,
yelling, namecalling, humiliation, and pain.
It isn't amazing or unusual to find adults who don't want to admit or
acknowledge that they caused their children pain or harm that could
have been prevented. Most parents are like that. What is unusual is
most parents are NOT like that here at unschooling-dotcom. This is a
special place where people try to learn from each other and from their
own mistakes how not to cause their children unnecessary harm or
damage. Really unschooling takes a certain willingness to examine
one's own motives and attempt to be honest. It takes work. It can be
painful and humiliating to admit to oneself that one isn't perfect and
that we can cause harm even with the best of intentions. I would say
most of us here have felt that pain at one time or another; we feel
your pain.
Peggy
> For the record, I did not make up the nickname lazybones, my sonstarted using it himself after hearing me call our cat that one day. I
must say, your MIL must be a very dense woman if she could not see
what her comments were doing to your husband.
> MyrandaYour son is five. He doesn't know any better. You do. Parenting is a
>
journey. We don't know everything and we learn as we go. You want to
call your son a cute little name that is cute only to you and the rest
of the world finds dismissive and hurtful?
My sisters hit their kids with wooden spoons when the children were
younger. Now, they don't want to talk about how that might have been
harmful to their children. There are many adults like them because
this is how many of us grew up ourselves as children, with blows,
yelling, namecalling, humiliation, and pain.
It isn't amazing or unusual to find adults who don't want to admit or
acknowledge that they caused their children pain or harm that could
have been prevented. Most parents are like that. What is unusual is
most parents are NOT like that here at unschooling-dotcom. This is a
special place where people try to learn from each other and from their
own mistakes how not to cause their children unnecessary harm or
damage. Really unschooling takes a certain willingness to examine
one's own motives and attempt to be honest. It takes work. It can be
painful and humiliating to admit to oneself that one isn't perfect and
that we can cause harm even with the best of intentions. I would say
most of us here have felt that pain at one time or another; we feel
your pain.
Peggy
Myranda
Thankfully, I am not one of those parents who are not willing to admit mistakes or wrongs they do/did. I made many mistakes - not breastfeeding my boys, smacking hands and butts, punishments that were too harsh for the deed, blindly following doctors advice, trying to potty-train too early, putting my youngest in daycare, etc, etc. No one's perfect. I have learned from and changed many of my parenting ideas and practices since becoming a parent over 7 years ago. I learn more every day. Simply because I do not agree with the majority here about what is best for my family does not mean I am a stuck-in-my-ways, my-way-or-the-highway, miss perfect of a parent.
Myranda
Your son is five. He doesn't know any better. You do. Parenting is a
journey. We don't know everything and we learn as we go. You want to
call your son a cute little name that is cute only to you and the rest
of the world finds dismissive and hurtful?
My sisters hit their kids with wooden spoons when the children were
younger. Now, they don't want to talk about how that might have been
harmful to their children. There are many adults like them because
this is how many of us grew up ourselves as children, with blows,
yelling, namecalling, humiliation, and pain.
It isn't amazing or unusual to find adults who don't want to admit or
acknowledge that they caused their children pain or harm that could
have been prevented. Most parents are like that. What is unusual is
most parents are NOT like that here at unschooling-dotcom. This is a
special place where people try to learn from each other and from their
own mistakes how not to cause their children unnecessary harm or
damage. Really unschooling takes a certain willingness to examine
one's own motives and attempt to be honest. It takes work. It can be
painful and humiliating to admit to oneself that one isn't perfect and
that we can cause harm even with the best of intentions. I would say
most of us here have felt that pain at one time or another; we feel
your pain.
Peggy
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Your son is five. He doesn't know any better. You do. Parenting is a
journey. We don't know everything and we learn as we go. You want to
call your son a cute little name that is cute only to you and the rest
of the world finds dismissive and hurtful?
My sisters hit their kids with wooden spoons when the children were
younger. Now, they don't want to talk about how that might have been
harmful to their children. There are many adults like them because
this is how many of us grew up ourselves as children, with blows,
yelling, namecalling, humiliation, and pain.
It isn't amazing or unusual to find adults who don't want to admit or
acknowledge that they caused their children pain or harm that could
have been prevented. Most parents are like that. What is unusual is
most parents are NOT like that here at unschooling-dotcom. This is a
special place where people try to learn from each other and from their
own mistakes how not to cause their children unnecessary harm or
damage. Really unschooling takes a certain willingness to examine
one's own motives and attempt to be honest. It takes work. It can be
painful and humiliating to admit to oneself that one isn't perfect and
that we can cause harm even with the best of intentions. I would say
most of us here have felt that pain at one time or another; we feel
your pain.
Peggy
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/10/2002 1:04:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
myrandab@... writes:
Saying you've been unschooling since they were born, though, isn't true if
you're just lately figuring out what unschooling is and how it works.
I don't claim unschooling or homeschooling before the time Kirby would have
gone to school. Some people do, for some reasons which are sometimes good.
But retroactively saying you've unschooled since you had children isn't as
honest as it could be.
It's hard to really look at what we're doing unless we can SEE what we're
doing, and getting a story clear in our own heads is a good way to look at
it. If someone tells people "We call him this because..." and the next day
it's "He made up his own nickname" then there is a lack of clarity which goes
deeper than any one conversation, or weeklong discussion.
On the other hand, maybe long dicussions are the equivalent of people
berating me because I don't play soccer or swim. No amount of discussion is
going to change that.
Howard Gardner's description of intrapersonal intelligence (people can google
it if that's unfamiliary) in his set of multiple intelligences describes
something just as real as dancing or understanding math. BUt not everyone is
equally interested or facile with it. I'm not a dancer. I'm no jock. Some
parts of math confuse the heck out of me. Interpersonal/intrapersonal and
verbal stuff, though, come easy to me.
Trying to get someone to understand or believe that some people can perceive
interpersonal situations better than others seems to be an insult in this
culture. Sometimes we take "all men are created equal" to mean all have the
same abilities and talents.
If someone here were advising me or my kids on sports medicine, I would
really listen, because I don't know. If someone advised me about how to seal
up a shower or fix plumbing, I would really listen.
But when interpersonal or intrapersonal skills are the question, all emotion
breaks loose and those who have less of it deny "more of it" could exist.
I'm afraid I'm not clearly expressing myself, and I do know it's awkward
subject matter.
I can tell when a note doesn't match another note. Some people can't. So I
should tune the guitar, not the other person. If I say "I'm no better at
tuning this guitar," or "You know your own guitar best," that's not being
honest or helpful. If I said "I have a guitar and it bothers me that the
chords don't sound right," I could advise on tuning it even by e-mail. If
that person then said "I tuned it that way on purpose" or "It sounds fine to
me," I would wonder what the original post had been about.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
myrandab@... writes:
> I made many mistakes - not breastfeeding my boys, smacking hands and butts,Everybody I know has things they would go back and change if they could.
> punishments that were too harsh for the deed, blindly following doctors
> advice, trying to potty-train too early, putting my youngest in daycare,
> etc, etc. No one's perfect.
Saying you've been unschooling since they were born, though, isn't true if
you're just lately figuring out what unschooling is and how it works.
I don't claim unschooling or homeschooling before the time Kirby would have
gone to school. Some people do, for some reasons which are sometimes good.
But retroactively saying you've unschooled since you had children isn't as
honest as it could be.
It's hard to really look at what we're doing unless we can SEE what we're
doing, and getting a story clear in our own heads is a good way to look at
it. If someone tells people "We call him this because..." and the next day
it's "He made up his own nickname" then there is a lack of clarity which goes
deeper than any one conversation, or weeklong discussion.
On the other hand, maybe long dicussions are the equivalent of people
berating me because I don't play soccer or swim. No amount of discussion is
going to change that.
Howard Gardner's description of intrapersonal intelligence (people can google
it if that's unfamiliary) in his set of multiple intelligences describes
something just as real as dancing or understanding math. BUt not everyone is
equally interested or facile with it. I'm not a dancer. I'm no jock. Some
parts of math confuse the heck out of me. Interpersonal/intrapersonal and
verbal stuff, though, come easy to me.
Trying to get someone to understand or believe that some people can perceive
interpersonal situations better than others seems to be an insult in this
culture. Sometimes we take "all men are created equal" to mean all have the
same abilities and talents.
If someone here were advising me or my kids on sports medicine, I would
really listen, because I don't know. If someone advised me about how to seal
up a shower or fix plumbing, I would really listen.
But when interpersonal or intrapersonal skills are the question, all emotion
breaks loose and those who have less of it deny "more of it" could exist.
I'm afraid I'm not clearly expressing myself, and I do know it's awkward
subject matter.
I can tell when a note doesn't match another note. Some people can't. So I
should tune the guitar, not the other person. If I say "I'm no better at
tuning this guitar," or "You know your own guitar best," that's not being
honest or helpful. If I said "I have a guitar and it bothers me that the
chords don't sound right," I could advise on tuning it even by e-mail. If
that person then said "I tuned it that way on purpose" or "It sounds fine to
me," I would wonder what the original post had been about.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Myranda wrote:
***Yeah, a negative meaning. A meaning that the rest of the world considers not
such a great thing to be.***
I was thinking the same thing myself when Myranda wrote that.
I think she was trying to say that she was using it descriptively and not meaning it as an insult, but still. Imagine if my son was overweight and I decided to affectionately call him Fatso. I could defend it by saying "But fat is just a word with a meaning! Like any other word! And it's true- he is fat, and he knows it! And we say so affectionately, not meanly!"
Sometimes, even when there is some truth to a description, it is unkind to hinge a child's entire self image on it by turning it into his name.
Patti
>It's a word, with a meaning, just like any other.
> Yes, he heard it from me to begin with. I don't see that as a bad thing.
***Yeah, a negative meaning. A meaning that the rest of the world considers not
such a great thing to be.***
I was thinking the same thing myself when Myranda wrote that.
I think she was trying to say that she was using it descriptively and not meaning it as an insult, but still. Imagine if my son was overweight and I decided to affectionately call him Fatso. I could defend it by saying "But fat is just a word with a meaning! Like any other word! And it's true- he is fat, and he knows it! And we say so affectionately, not meanly!"
Sometimes, even when there is some truth to a description, it is unkind to hinge a child's entire self image on it by turning it into his name.
Patti
Mary Bianco
>From: <patti.schmidt2@...><<Sometimes, even when there is some truth to a description, it is unkind to
hinge a child's entire self image on it by turning it into his name.>>
Of all the lazy posting I've been reading, I think this sums it all up in
easy to read words. Thank you for saying what I think most here are trying
to get across.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx