TCS the modern view?
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/6/02 7:59:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I disagree. I think children are very powerful. >>
How? In what way is a child powerful unless the adult in their life confers
that power to them.
Legally? Nope. Hardly any protection unless there is obvious abuse or
neglect. Not what I'd call power.
Physically? No. They are hugely dependant physically until they get to be
older children at least.
Mentally? While incredibly wise and intelligent I wouldn't say they are
powerful mentally. A person can brainwash a tender mind and twist it because
of that wonderful natural trust a child has. Not powerful. Beautiful, but not
powerful.
Unless the adult gives the power....then they do have it.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I disagree. I think children are very powerful. >>
How? In what way is a child powerful unless the adult in their life confers
that power to them.
Legally? Nope. Hardly any protection unless there is obvious abuse or
neglect. Not what I'd call power.
Physically? No. They are hugely dependant physically until they get to be
older children at least.
Mentally? While incredibly wise and intelligent I wouldn't say they are
powerful mentally. A person can brainwash a tender mind and twist it because
of that wonderful natural trust a child has. Not powerful. Beautiful, but not
powerful.
Unless the adult gives the power....then they do have it.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/02 6:45:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< My Mother is
an expert at frustrating children. She does it so they don't even know she
is doing it. She is an excellent teacher. >>
So let me get this straight. I want to be sure I understand this correctly.
You think that by your mother PURPOSELY frustrating children, it helps make
her an excellent teacher????
Wow. That flies in the face of natural learning. Frustration is going to
happen in life quite naturally without lame adults trying to add to it.
I never learned much while frustrated....do much better after I calm down and
try a new tact.
So am I understanding your view correctly? Or did I misunderstand completely?
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< My Mother is
an expert at frustrating children. She does it so they don't even know she
is doing it. She is an excellent teacher. >>
So let me get this straight. I want to be sure I understand this correctly.
You think that by your mother PURPOSELY frustrating children, it helps make
her an excellent teacher????
Wow. That flies in the face of natural learning. Frustration is going to
happen in life quite naturally without lame adults trying to add to it.
I never learned much while frustrated....do much better after I calm down and
try a new tact.
So am I understanding your view correctly? Or did I misunderstand completely?
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/02 6:45:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I do not ever remember feeling
powerless. I do remember feeling quite powerful. >>
Of course you did. Your parents gave you that power. Is that why you're
having such a hard time understanding that most children do not have that
same feeling? Because most children are not raised that way.
We are advocating just that type of parenting. But it baffles me why a person
would not be able to understand that most children don't have that kind of
power given to them by the adults in their lives.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I do not ever remember feeling
powerless. I do remember feeling quite powerful. >>
Of course you did. Your parents gave you that power. Is that why you're
having such a hard time understanding that most children do not have that
same feeling? Because most children are not raised that way.
We are advocating just that type of parenting. But it baffles me why a person
would not be able to understand that most children don't have that kind of
power given to them by the adults in their lives.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/02 6:45:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I'm sure you don't need me to explain the role of frustration in
learning. >>
Enlighten us, please.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I'm sure you don't need me to explain the role of frustration in
learning. >>
Enlighten us, please.
Ren
Deborah Lewis
Liz, I am having a very hard time understanding. Now this could just be
my diminished mental capacity caused by my diet, so I've been trying to
read your posts again and figure them out.
If you hear a distant rolling rumble, that's my last marble.
It seems like you misunderstood Sandra here.
Your reply:
***I'm sure you don't need me to explain the role of frustration in
learning. ***
You do need to explain it.
Deb L
my diminished mental capacity caused by my diet, so I've been trying to
read your posts again and figure them out.
If you hear a distant rolling rumble, that's my last marble.
It seems like you misunderstood Sandra here.
>If they were provided with daily frustrations and treated asanger.
> lesser beings
> without as many rights, I expect they would have many more fits of
Your reply:
>True. In fact most learning experiences involve frustration. My Motheris
>an expert at frustrating children. She does it so they don't even knowshe
>is doing it. She is an excellent teacher. I don't know about thelesser
>beings part? Did you throw that one in for a bit of spice?And:
***I'm sure you don't need me to explain the role of frustration in
learning. ***
You do need to explain it.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/7/02 10:02:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
*And yet there was a difference-a very vital difference. Elizabeth Murray had
learned an important lesson-that there was not one law of fairness for childr
en and another for grown-ups. She continued to be as autocratic as ever-but
she did not do or say to Emily anything she would not have done or said to
Laura had the occasion called for it.*
I love that paragraph. Although I wish Aunt Elizabeth had learned the lesson
a bit further and not have been autocratic anymore, either. <g>
The kids and Darin and I were watching a movie the other night called *Lloyd*
(I think) It was all about the preteen set, in school and their relationships
with peers and other adults. Moly was just shocked at how children are
treated in school. Of course the movie exaggerated some points, but the
message was clear. How children learn and are treated in school isn't fair or
nice. She kept looking at Darin and me with big eyes. At the time, we were
laughing and reminiscing about how this or that person reminded us of one
teacher or another. (the PE teacher was exactly like one of mine in grade
school) After the movie was over she asked if that was really how things are
in school. Darin, who had a mostly good school experience said *well
sometimes but not usually* but I told her that although many things were
exaggerated to be comical, the idea and message of school was right on.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> << I do not ever remember feelingFrom Emily of New Moon:
> powerless. I do remember feeling quite powerful. >>
>
> Of course you did. Your parents gave you that power. Is that why you're
> having such a hard time understanding that most children do not have that
> same feeling? Because most children are not raised that way.
> We are advocating just that type of parenting. But it baffles me why a
> person
> would not be able to understand that most children don't have that kind of
> power given to them by the adults in their lives.
>
> Ren
*And yet there was a difference-a very vital difference. Elizabeth Murray had
learned an important lesson-that there was not one law of fairness for childr
en and another for grown-ups. She continued to be as autocratic as ever-but
she did not do or say to Emily anything she would not have done or said to
Laura had the occasion called for it.*
I love that paragraph. Although I wish Aunt Elizabeth had learned the lesson
a bit further and not have been autocratic anymore, either. <g>
The kids and Darin and I were watching a movie the other night called *Lloyd*
(I think) It was all about the preteen set, in school and their relationships
with peers and other adults. Moly was just shocked at how children are
treated in school. Of course the movie exaggerated some points, but the
message was clear. How children learn and are treated in school isn't fair or
nice. She kept looking at Darin and me with big eyes. At the time, we were
laughing and reminiscing about how this or that person reminded us of one
teacher or another. (the PE teacher was exactly like one of mine in grade
school) After the movie was over she asked if that was really how things are
in school. Darin, who had a mostly good school experience said *well
sometimes but not usually* but I told her that although many things were
exaggerated to be comical, the idea and message of school was right on.
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
Though I might find time to pop in today in between packing and panicing
over what I've forgotten to pack ;-), I'll be leaving early tomorrow morning
to go meet Anne Ohman. We'll be driving down to the conference together.
Kathryn's really excited since she and Anne's kids hit it off great last
time they met, with a mutual interest in video games and Pokemon :-)
I'm looking forward to meeting everyone! :-) I'll be the quiet one at the
edge of the room who doesn't say a word. Except for my "talk" where it's at
least planned I'll be saying something. If by some miracle words do actually
come from my mouth, that will be people's only opportunity to hear my voice
;-)
Joyce
over what I've forgotten to pack ;-), I'll be leaving early tomorrow morning
to go meet Anne Ohman. We'll be driving down to the conference together.
Kathryn's really excited since she and Anne's kids hit it off great last
time they met, with a mutual interest in video games and Pokemon :-)
I'm looking forward to meeting everyone! :-) I'll be the quiet one at the
edge of the room who doesn't say a word. Except for my "talk" where it's at
least planned I'll be saying something. If by some miracle words do actually
come from my mouth, that will be people's only opportunity to hear my voice
;-)
Joyce
Kelli Traaseth
Good luck Joyce, You'll do great!
Kelli
Fetteroll wrote:Though I might find time to pop in today in between packing and panicing
over what I've forgotten to pack ;-), I'll be leaving early tomorrow morning
to go meet Anne Ohman. We'll be driving down to the conference together.
Kathryn's really excited since she and Anne's kids hit it off great last
time they met, with a mutual interest in video games and Pokemon :-)
I'm looking forward to meeting everyone! :-) I'll be the quiet one at the
edge of the room who doesn't say a word. Except for my "talk" where it's at
least planned I'll be saying something. If by some miracle words do actually
come from my mouth, that will be people's only opportunity to hear my voice
;-)
Joyce
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli
Fetteroll wrote:Though I might find time to pop in today in between packing and panicing
over what I've forgotten to pack ;-), I'll be leaving early tomorrow morning
to go meet Anne Ohman. We'll be driving down to the conference together.
Kathryn's really excited since she and Anne's kids hit it off great last
time they met, with a mutual interest in video games and Pokemon :-)
I'm looking forward to meeting everyone! :-) I'll be the quiet one at the
edge of the room who doesn't say a word. Except for my "talk" where it's at
least planned I'll be saying something. If by some miracle words do actually
come from my mouth, that will be people's only opportunity to hear my voice
;-)
Joyce
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]