ODD
Bronwen
> Oppositional Defiance DisorderI joke with my husband- he is a therapist- it should be renamed OCP
> Myranda, what is ODD?
"OverControlling Parent syndrome"
Bronwen
Deborah Lewis
> I joke with my husband- he is a therapist- it should be renamed OCPBronwen,
> "OverControlling Parent syndrome"
= )
Deb L
Myranda
How come?
I joke with my husband- he is a therapist- it should be renamed OCP
"OverControlling Parent syndrome"
Bronwen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I joke with my husband- he is a therapist- it should be renamed OCP
"OverControlling Parent syndrome"
Bronwen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/2/02 12:48:25 AM, myrandab@... writes:
<< How come?
I joke with my husband- he is a therapist- it should be renamed OCP
"OverControlling Parent syndrome" >>
Probably because instead of helping parents keep children from being
frustrated and lashing out, we call the children's response a disease,
medicate the, and tell the parents to carry on as usual.
Sandra
<< How come?
I joke with my husband- he is a therapist- it should be renamed OCP
"OverControlling Parent syndrome" >>
Probably because instead of helping parents keep children from being
frustrated and lashing out, we call the children's response a disease,
medicate the, and tell the parents to carry on as usual.
Sandra
Mary Bianco
Okay I went and found a web site on this. I'm not trying to be a smart ass
here but I never heard of this thing before. And the site listed 9
characteristics. Well my oldest, when she was 11 and 12, showed 8 of the 9.
Is this disorder real or just a kid who needs to find another way to handle
himself and parents who need to do that too.
BTW, we did get my daughter counseling and she was briefly on Celexa and is
fine now and off meds and counseling.
Mary B
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here but I never heard of this thing before. And the site listed 9
characteristics. Well my oldest, when she was 11 and 12, showed 8 of the 9.
Is this disorder real or just a kid who needs to find another way to handle
himself and parents who need to do that too.
BTW, we did get my daughter counseling and she was briefly on Celexa and is
fine now and off meds and counseling.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/2/02 9:08:11 AM, mummyone24@... writes:
<< Well my oldest, when she was 11 and 12, showed 8 of the 9.
Is this disorder real or just a kid who needs to find another way to handle
himself and parents who need to do that too.
allergy to the school system.
How many of those kids' symptoms could have been redirected by loving
compassion?
Hard to say in a culture which presses control and obedience and stupidity.
Sandra
<< Well my oldest, when she was 11 and 12, showed 8 of the 9.
Is this disorder real or just a kid who needs to find another way to handle
himself and parents who need to do that too.
>>I think it might be an allergy to our culture the same way most "ADHD" is an
allergy to the school system.
How many of those kids' symptoms could have been redirected by loving
compassion?
Hard to say in a culture which presses control and obedience and stupidity.
Sandra
Julie Stauffer
When I first starting working at the local mental health clinic many moons
ago, the prevalent thought was that kids with ODD were simply young
Antisocial Personality Disorder (think convict). I had two kids that I
remember distinctly with that diagnosis.
One was 11. His mom brought him to see me and he would clam up, refuse to
do anything that might be viewed as cooperation. So they quit coming. 2
years later, he started just showing up at the clinic to see me, waiting
outside my office in case I might have a few minutes to talk. Of course, he
was skipping school to do it but he was trying to make a connection with me.
One was 8. He was a brawler, a fire starter, a thief. He never missed a
session, asked to come extra. I had to take a leave for some surgery. I
woke up in the hospital to find this young man in my hospital room
(relatively small town with only one hospital). He had skipped school,
walked to the hospital and stolen flowers out of a cemetery to give to me.
I cried.
I have never thought of ODD the same way again.
Julie
ago, the prevalent thought was that kids with ODD were simply young
Antisocial Personality Disorder (think convict). I had two kids that I
remember distinctly with that diagnosis.
One was 11. His mom brought him to see me and he would clam up, refuse to
do anything that might be viewed as cooperation. So they quit coming. 2
years later, he started just showing up at the clinic to see me, waiting
outside my office in case I might have a few minutes to talk. Of course, he
was skipping school to do it but he was trying to make a connection with me.
One was 8. He was a brawler, a fire starter, a thief. He never missed a
session, asked to come extra. I had to take a leave for some surgery. I
woke up in the hospital to find this young man in my hospital room
(relatively small town with only one hospital). He had skipped school,
walked to the hospital and stolen flowers out of a cemetery to give to me.
I cried.
I have never thought of ODD the same way again.
Julie
Myranda
Who is the "we" you are referring to here? I'm guessing doctors of some sort? I have not taken Brett to any doctors for this reason, I'm afraid if I refuse their treatment recommendations that they could cause trouble for us.
Myranda
Probably because instead of helping parents keep children from being
frustrated and lashing out, we call the children's response a disease,
medicate the, and tell the parents to carry on as usual.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Probably because instead of helping parents keep children from being
frustrated and lashing out, we call the children's response a disease,
medicate the, and tell the parents to carry on as usual.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Who is the "we" you are referring to here? I'm guessing doctors of some sort? I have not taken Brett to any doctors for this reason, I'm afraid if I refuse their treatment recommendations that they could cause trouble for us.
Myranda
Probably because instead of helping parents keep children from being
frustrated and lashing out, we call the children's response a disease,
medicate the, and tell the parents to carry on as usual.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Probably because instead of helping parents keep children from being
frustrated and lashing out, we call the children's response a disease,
medicate the, and tell the parents to carry on as usual.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
I wish it was that easy to explain away. However, my son showed the signs of it before he was a year old... even as a newborn. I really don't think that culture brainwashed him into it at that early age.
Compassion? I use it every day.
Myranda
I think it might be an allergy to our culture the same way most "ADHD" is an
allergy to the school system.
How many of those kids' symptoms could have been redirected by loving
compassion?
Hard to say in a culture which presses control and obedience and stupidity.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Compassion? I use it every day.
Myranda
I think it might be an allergy to our culture the same way most "ADHD" is an
allergy to the school system.
How many of those kids' symptoms could have been redirected by loving
compassion?
Hard to say in a culture which presses control and obedience and stupidity.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
You know, that's the only thing that keeps me sane some days. We will have had an absolutely horrible week, then in some way, shape, or form, Brett does something so purely sweet and selfless it just brings tears to my eyes. That usually gets us through the next week LOL!
Myranda
When I first starting working at the local mental health clinic many moons
ago, the prevalent thought was that kids with ODD were simply young
Antisocial Personality Disorder (think convict). I had two kids that I
remember distinctly with that diagnosis.
One was 11. His mom brought him to see me and he would clam up, refuse to
do anything that might be viewed as cooperation. So they quit coming. 2
years later, he started just showing up at the clinic to see me, waiting
outside my office in case I might have a few minutes to talk. Of course, he
was skipping school to do it but he was trying to make a connection with me.
One was 8. He was a brawler, a fire starter, a thief. He never missed a
session, asked to come extra. I had to take a leave for some surgery. I
woke up in the hospital to find this young man in my hospital room
(relatively small town with only one hospital). He had skipped school,
walked to the hospital and stolen flowers out of a cemetery to give to me.
I cried.
I have never thought of ODD the same way again.
Julie
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
When I first starting working at the local mental health clinic many moons
ago, the prevalent thought was that kids with ODD were simply young
Antisocial Personality Disorder (think convict). I had two kids that I
remember distinctly with that diagnosis.
One was 11. His mom brought him to see me and he would clam up, refuse to
do anything that might be viewed as cooperation. So they quit coming. 2
years later, he started just showing up at the clinic to see me, waiting
outside my office in case I might have a few minutes to talk. Of course, he
was skipping school to do it but he was trying to make a connection with me.
One was 8. He was a brawler, a fire starter, a thief. He never missed a
session, asked to come extra. I had to take a leave for some surgery. I
woke up in the hospital to find this young man in my hospital room
(relatively small town with only one hospital). He had skipped school,
walked to the hospital and stolen flowers out of a cemetery to give to me.
I cried.
I have never thought of ODD the same way again.
Julie
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
>From: "Julie Stauffer" <jnjstau@...><<When I first starting working at the local mental health clinic many moons
ago, the prevalent thought was that kids with ODD were simply young
Antisocial Personality Disorder (think convict). I had two kids that I
remember distinctly with that diagnosis.
I have never thought of ODD the same way again.>>
How sad for those poor kids.
Just curious Julie, were you ever able to follow up on how those kids turned
out??
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:39:33 -0400 "Myranda" <myrandab@...>
writes:
I think there are definitely some babies who are more difficult to care
for. Some are less cuddly than others, some are more sensitive to stress.
Some are very erratic in their habits, or very active, or more intense in
their reactions, or slower to adjust to changes or to warm up to new
people and places. When my daughter was a baby, she had some of these
traits, and people did tend to pathologize her behaviors - calling her
"spirited" and "high-need" before she was even a year old. I did read
some books and find them helpful ("The Explosive Child" really made me
feel better when she was 5 or 6) but labeling her never helped. What did
help was to adjust to her difficulties, to stay on her side, to be honest
with her....
I worked with adults and kids who had emotional and mental health
problems for quite a few years. Before being a teacher of kids with
emotional "disorders", I worked at a drop in center for people with
serious mental illnesses, on the grounds of the state hospital. The only
thing I ever did that helped anyone was to talk with them, to have
compassion, and to be on their side. The school system especially was
about control - with regular kids they get sneaky, with my kids they
fight back as hard as they can, and they fight dirty. But once we got to
know each other, I could pretty much ask them to do anything in their
power and they would do it.
One day I was working at the drop-in center, and we were having a
Valentine's day party and cookout. The other person who was supposed to
be working with me died in his sleep the night before - he was in his
forties and seemingly healthy, it was totally unexpected. I ended up
working by myself that day, me and 45 people who were either residents of
the state hospital or in the system and diagnosed with a serious mental
illness. One woman showed up high as a kite, and some of the things she
said made us think she'd taken an overdose. She was terrified, too... so
I ended up putting her in my car and driving her to county crisis,
leaving a large schizophrenic homeless guy who rarely said two words in
charge of the grill. I was gone maybe an hour... and when I got back
there were burgers made, one of the women was making coffee, everyone was
having a good time. Everyone had been concerned about the woman and
wanted me to go, and they said they could handle things, and I believed
them.
In my class, I had a 5th grader whose family was known for drug dealing
and manufacturing, being in and out of jail, wild parties... he had been
in trouble for fighting and "acting out" since kindergarten. He was truly
my right-hand man, more help than my horrid aide. He noticed when the 3rd
graders were struggling and would ask if they could come work at his desk
with him. He noticed when my student with sickle cell was needing a
transfusion, when she was having trouble concentrating. All I did was
treat him with respect.
There was one sub who loved my room. Most would come in and feel
intimidated, and try to have a "firm hand" and take control... which
usually backfired, although after I'd had the kids for a while they at
least tried. But usually we got the same guy. No one thought he'd make a
good sub for my kids, because he was skinny and old and walked slowly
and no way could he restain a kid who decided to throw chairs or
something... but he talked to the kids like real people, told them
stories about fighting in WW II, read to them, showed them how to paint.
It was wonderful.
It wasn't all perfect - kids did lose it, so did the adults I worked
with. But we'd get past it, we didn't dwell on it, and things got
better...
Dar
writes:
> I wish it was that easy to explain away. However, my son showed theWhat do you see as signs of ODD in a newborn or infant?
> signs of it before he was a year old... even as a newborn. I really
> don't think that culture brainwashed him into it at that early age.
I think there are definitely some babies who are more difficult to care
for. Some are less cuddly than others, some are more sensitive to stress.
Some are very erratic in their habits, or very active, or more intense in
their reactions, or slower to adjust to changes or to warm up to new
people and places. When my daughter was a baby, she had some of these
traits, and people did tend to pathologize her behaviors - calling her
"spirited" and "high-need" before she was even a year old. I did read
some books and find them helpful ("The Explosive Child" really made me
feel better when she was 5 or 6) but labeling her never helped. What did
help was to adjust to her difficulties, to stay on her side, to be honest
with her....
I worked with adults and kids who had emotional and mental health
problems for quite a few years. Before being a teacher of kids with
emotional "disorders", I worked at a drop in center for people with
serious mental illnesses, on the grounds of the state hospital. The only
thing I ever did that helped anyone was to talk with them, to have
compassion, and to be on their side. The school system especially was
about control - with regular kids they get sneaky, with my kids they
fight back as hard as they can, and they fight dirty. But once we got to
know each other, I could pretty much ask them to do anything in their
power and they would do it.
One day I was working at the drop-in center, and we were having a
Valentine's day party and cookout. The other person who was supposed to
be working with me died in his sleep the night before - he was in his
forties and seemingly healthy, it was totally unexpected. I ended up
working by myself that day, me and 45 people who were either residents of
the state hospital or in the system and diagnosed with a serious mental
illness. One woman showed up high as a kite, and some of the things she
said made us think she'd taken an overdose. She was terrified, too... so
I ended up putting her in my car and driving her to county crisis,
leaving a large schizophrenic homeless guy who rarely said two words in
charge of the grill. I was gone maybe an hour... and when I got back
there were burgers made, one of the women was making coffee, everyone was
having a good time. Everyone had been concerned about the woman and
wanted me to go, and they said they could handle things, and I believed
them.
In my class, I had a 5th grader whose family was known for drug dealing
and manufacturing, being in and out of jail, wild parties... he had been
in trouble for fighting and "acting out" since kindergarten. He was truly
my right-hand man, more help than my horrid aide. He noticed when the 3rd
graders were struggling and would ask if they could come work at his desk
with him. He noticed when my student with sickle cell was needing a
transfusion, when she was having trouble concentrating. All I did was
treat him with respect.
There was one sub who loved my room. Most would come in and feel
intimidated, and try to have a "firm hand" and take control... which
usually backfired, although after I'd had the kids for a while they at
least tried. But usually we got the same guy. No one thought he'd make a
good sub for my kids, because he was skinny and old and walked slowly
and no way could he restain a kid who decided to throw chairs or
something... but he talked to the kids like real people, told them
stories about fighting in WW II, read to them, showed them how to paint.
It was wonderful.
It wasn't all perfect - kids did lose it, so did the adults I worked
with. But we'd get past it, we didn't dwell on it, and things got
better...
Dar
Myranda
I had never heard of ODD until about 3/4 months ago when an online friend of mine had her son diagnosed with it. We'd often compared stories, and our sons are almost the same age and it's scary how alike they act. We both practice attachment parenting, and believed that we would have secure, loving, happy children - only to have those hopes dashed to bits with our sons. Here is one list (the most accurate one I've found) that I used to help figure out what was going on with my son:
Infancy (0 to 18 months)
a.. Irregularities in sleeping and eating patterns
b.. High activity level
c.. Low tolerance of stimulation and physical affection
d.. May be colicky, fussy and/or irritable
e.. Difficult to calm or soothe
f.. Difficult to hold due to restlessness and overactivity
g.. Does not show a preference for being held or cuddled
Toddler (18 months to 3 years)
a.. Short attention span
b.. Impulsivity
c.. Restlessness and overactivity
d.. More difficult to manage than other children of the same age
e.. Perceived by caretakers as rebellious or non-compliant
Preschool (3 to 6 years)
a.. Low patience level
b.. Displays aggression
c.. Increasing difficulties with peer relationships
d.. Gradually become more openly defiant towards adults
Elementary (6-11 years)
a.. Behaviors may continue across home, school, and community settings.
b.. Beginning academic problems.
c.. Impulsivity and motor restlessness.
d.. Variety of disruptive and aggressive behavioral difficulties.
My son displayed every one of these points at the appropriate age. As a baby over the age of 4mths, he would not let me hold him unless I was carrying him somewhere he wanted to go. He would scream until I put him down. He wanted nothing to do with hugs or kisses when hurt or upset, and the only way to calm him would be a car ride. He never got on any kind of an eating or napping schedule - it just went with his moods. From the time he was 2mths until he was potty trained, he would get mad if he had to have is diaper changed or clothes put on or off - he would scream, hold his breath, kick and hit. As a two year old, I could not leave him with anyone because he would hit, kick, and refuse to listen to them. I had to be sure and have enough activities to keep him busy at all times if I wanted him to be at all pleasant to be around. About the time he turned three, he would hit and kick whatever was near when he could not have what he wanted - he still does this, goes into his room and just whallops his bed, dresser, toys, whatever. He did not have the ability to wait patiently for anything, and still does not most days. He started being actively agressive towards his brother and DH when he was 4 - he would growl and ball his fists up, used any excuse to hit his brother and hurt the cats, anything, no matter how much he wanted and liked it, got broken/destroyed at some point or another. He lies for no reason (I didn't paint that yellow, I painted it red! I don't have any clean clothes in my closet. Nana told me I couldn't go to her house today.), he steals things - started with taking food off other's plates when they weren't looking and sneaking into my change jar in my bathroom, went to trying to take other children's toys and even clothes, and he has tried taking a few things from stores. Ugh, and so much more!
The ODD info has given me a whole new world of ideas to try! A lot of them I was already doing, but a few new ones have really helped us.
Myranda
What do you see as signs of ODD in a newborn or infant?
I think there are definitely some babies who are more difficult to care
for. Some are less cuddly than others, some are more sensitive to stress.
Some are very erratic in their habits, or very active, or more intense in
their reactions, or slower to adjust to changes or to warm up to new
people and places. When my daughter was a baby, she had some of these
traits, and people did tend to pathologize her behaviors - calling her
"spirited" and "high-need" before she was even a year old. I did read
some books and find them helpful ("The Explosive Child" really made me
feel better when she was 5 or 6) but labeling her never helped. What did
help was to adjust to her difficulties, to stay on her side, to be honest
with her....
I worked with adults and kids who had emotional and mental health
problems for quite a few years. Before being a teacher of kids with
emotional "disorders", I worked at a drop in center for people with
serious mental illnesses, on the grounds of the state hospital. The only
thing I ever did that helped anyone was to talk with them, to have
compassion, and to be on their side. The school system especially was
about control - with regular kids they get sneaky, with my kids they
fight back as hard as they can, and they fight dirty. But once we got to
know each other, I could pretty much ask them to do anything in their
power and they would do it.
One day I was working at the drop-in center, and we were having a
Valentine's day party and cookout. The other person who was supposed to
be working with me died in his sleep the night before - he was in his
forties and seemingly healthy, it was totally unexpected. I ended up
working by myself that day, me and 45 people who were either residents of
the state hospital or in the system and diagnosed with a serious mental
illness. One woman showed up high as a kite, and some of the things she
said made us think she'd taken an overdose. She was terrified, too... so
I ended up putting her in my car and driving her to county crisis,
leaving a large schizophrenic homeless guy who rarely said two words in
charge of the grill. I was gone maybe an hour... and when I got back
there were burgers made, one of the women was making coffee, everyone was
having a good time. Everyone had been concerned about the woman and
wanted me to go, and they said they could handle things, and I believed
them.
In my class, I had a 5th grader whose family was known for drug dealing
and manufacturing, being in and out of jail, wild parties... he had been
in trouble for fighting and "acting out" since kindergarten. He was truly
my right-hand man, more help than my horrid aide. He noticed when the 3rd
graders were struggling and would ask if they could come work at his desk
with him. He noticed when my student with sickle cell was needing a
transfusion, when she was having trouble concentrating. All I did was
treat him with respect.
There was one sub who loved my room. Most would come in and feel
intimidated, and try to have a "firm hand" and take control... which
usually backfired, although after I'd had the kids for a while they at
least tried. But usually we got the same guy. No one thought he'd make a
good sub for my kids, because he was skinny and old and walked slowly
and no way could he restain a kid who decided to throw chairs or
something... but he talked to the kids like real people, told them
stories about fighting in WW II, read to them, showed them how to paint.
It was wonderful.
It wasn't all perfect - kids did lose it, so did the adults I worked
with. But we'd get past it, we didn't dwell on it, and things got
better...
Dar
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Infancy (0 to 18 months)
a.. Irregularities in sleeping and eating patterns
b.. High activity level
c.. Low tolerance of stimulation and physical affection
d.. May be colicky, fussy and/or irritable
e.. Difficult to calm or soothe
f.. Difficult to hold due to restlessness and overactivity
g.. Does not show a preference for being held or cuddled
Toddler (18 months to 3 years)
a.. Short attention span
b.. Impulsivity
c.. Restlessness and overactivity
d.. More difficult to manage than other children of the same age
e.. Perceived by caretakers as rebellious or non-compliant
Preschool (3 to 6 years)
a.. Low patience level
b.. Displays aggression
c.. Increasing difficulties with peer relationships
d.. Gradually become more openly defiant towards adults
Elementary (6-11 years)
a.. Behaviors may continue across home, school, and community settings.
b.. Beginning academic problems.
c.. Impulsivity and motor restlessness.
d.. Variety of disruptive and aggressive behavioral difficulties.
My son displayed every one of these points at the appropriate age. As a baby over the age of 4mths, he would not let me hold him unless I was carrying him somewhere he wanted to go. He would scream until I put him down. He wanted nothing to do with hugs or kisses when hurt or upset, and the only way to calm him would be a car ride. He never got on any kind of an eating or napping schedule - it just went with his moods. From the time he was 2mths until he was potty trained, he would get mad if he had to have is diaper changed or clothes put on or off - he would scream, hold his breath, kick and hit. As a two year old, I could not leave him with anyone because he would hit, kick, and refuse to listen to them. I had to be sure and have enough activities to keep him busy at all times if I wanted him to be at all pleasant to be around. About the time he turned three, he would hit and kick whatever was near when he could not have what he wanted - he still does this, goes into his room and just whallops his bed, dresser, toys, whatever. He did not have the ability to wait patiently for anything, and still does not most days. He started being actively agressive towards his brother and DH when he was 4 - he would growl and ball his fists up, used any excuse to hit his brother and hurt the cats, anything, no matter how much he wanted and liked it, got broken/destroyed at some point or another. He lies for no reason (I didn't paint that yellow, I painted it red! I don't have any clean clothes in my closet. Nana told me I couldn't go to her house today.), he steals things - started with taking food off other's plates when they weren't looking and sneaking into my change jar in my bathroom, went to trying to take other children's toys and even clothes, and he has tried taking a few things from stores. Ugh, and so much more!
The ODD info has given me a whole new world of ideas to try! A lot of them I was already doing, but a few new ones have really helped us.
Myranda
What do you see as signs of ODD in a newborn or infant?
I think there are definitely some babies who are more difficult to care
for. Some are less cuddly than others, some are more sensitive to stress.
Some are very erratic in their habits, or very active, or more intense in
their reactions, or slower to adjust to changes or to warm up to new
people and places. When my daughter was a baby, she had some of these
traits, and people did tend to pathologize her behaviors - calling her
"spirited" and "high-need" before she was even a year old. I did read
some books and find them helpful ("The Explosive Child" really made me
feel better when she was 5 or 6) but labeling her never helped. What did
help was to adjust to her difficulties, to stay on her side, to be honest
with her....
I worked with adults and kids who had emotional and mental health
problems for quite a few years. Before being a teacher of kids with
emotional "disorders", I worked at a drop in center for people with
serious mental illnesses, on the grounds of the state hospital. The only
thing I ever did that helped anyone was to talk with them, to have
compassion, and to be on their side. The school system especially was
about control - with regular kids they get sneaky, with my kids they
fight back as hard as they can, and they fight dirty. But once we got to
know each other, I could pretty much ask them to do anything in their
power and they would do it.
One day I was working at the drop-in center, and we were having a
Valentine's day party and cookout. The other person who was supposed to
be working with me died in his sleep the night before - he was in his
forties and seemingly healthy, it was totally unexpected. I ended up
working by myself that day, me and 45 people who were either residents of
the state hospital or in the system and diagnosed with a serious mental
illness. One woman showed up high as a kite, and some of the things she
said made us think she'd taken an overdose. She was terrified, too... so
I ended up putting her in my car and driving her to county crisis,
leaving a large schizophrenic homeless guy who rarely said two words in
charge of the grill. I was gone maybe an hour... and when I got back
there were burgers made, one of the women was making coffee, everyone was
having a good time. Everyone had been concerned about the woman and
wanted me to go, and they said they could handle things, and I believed
them.
In my class, I had a 5th grader whose family was known for drug dealing
and manufacturing, being in and out of jail, wild parties... he had been
in trouble for fighting and "acting out" since kindergarten. He was truly
my right-hand man, more help than my horrid aide. He noticed when the 3rd
graders were struggling and would ask if they could come work at his desk
with him. He noticed when my student with sickle cell was needing a
transfusion, when she was having trouble concentrating. All I did was
treat him with respect.
There was one sub who loved my room. Most would come in and feel
intimidated, and try to have a "firm hand" and take control... which
usually backfired, although after I'd had the kids for a while they at
least tried. But usually we got the same guy. No one thought he'd make a
good sub for my kids, because he was skinny and old and walked slowly
and no way could he restain a kid who decided to throw chairs or
something... but he talked to the kids like real people, told them
stories about fighting in WW II, read to them, showed them how to paint.
It was wonderful.
It wasn't all perfect - kids did lose it, so did the adults I worked
with. But we'd get past it, we didn't dwell on it, and things got
better...
Dar
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Kimber
<<<I had never heard of ODD until about 3/4 months ago when an online friend of mine had her son diagnosed with it. We'd often compared stories, and our sons are almost the same age and it's scary how alike they act. We both practice attachment parenting, and believed that we would have secure, loving, happy children - only to have those hopes dashed to bits with our sons. Here is one list (the most accurate one I've found) that I used to help figure out what was going on with my son:
<<<<Infancy (0 to 18 months)
a.. Irregularities in sleeping and eating patterns
b.. High activity level
c.. Low tolerance of stimulation and physical affection
d.. May be colicky, fussy and/or irritable
e.. Difficult to calm or soothe
f.. Difficult to hold due to restlessness and overactivity
g.. Does not show a preference for being held or cuddled >>>>
*****My son did have these signs/symptoms at that age.........
<<<<Toddler (18 months to 3 years)
a.. Short attention span
b.. Impulsivity
c.. Restlessness and overactivity
d.. More difficult to manage than other children of the same age
e.. Perceived by caretakers as rebellious or non-compliant >>>>
***My son had these as well.............
<<<<Preschool (3 to 6 years)
a.. Low patience level
b.. Displays aggression
c.. Increasing difficulties with peer relationships
d.. Gradually become more openly defiant towards adults>>>>
***My son had these 'symptoms' during kindergarten and we were advised by his kindergarten teacher to have him tested. We did and he was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. They strongly recommended medicating him but we pulled him out of school instead. I just could not believe that my child was 'not right'......he just seemed (to me) to behave like a 5 y/o little boy. ??
Anyway, we kept him home for a year and he seemed to really mature and calm down some so he was able to handle the school situation. In fact, he was wanting to go back to school. I had to go back to work, so homeschooling wasn't an option at that time. He did fine for the second half of 1st grade, all of 2nd grade, and some of 3rd. By semester of 3rd grade, the problems really started again with the school system. He seemed so depressed so we took him to counseling to see if that might help. (My brother was murdered when my son was 3 1/2 and I think it had a large impact on him besides all of the family hx of depression/bipolar disorders). She recommended medicating him for depression and we went to the psychiatrist for a scrip...... What a joke. (Can you hear the bitterness in my typing??) We spent about 5 minutes with him and he told us to try this medication and Alex would be like a different child in about a week. That's it. No warnings about what to watch for, nothing. We had fought so hard against medication we he was 5 and now I thought that we had tried just about everything else so this wouldn't be too bad of an idea, would it?? Well, he did change almost overnight. He seemed happier that he had ever been, slept about 5-6 hours a night, he quit eating so much (comfort eating--he is chubby so for us, less of an appetite was kind of a good thing), he played outside much more--very active, then the real problems started................. He ended up stealing a cd-rom from the school bookfair and threatened a child (he offered to kill her and chop her head off if she wouldn't leave him alone). This was not my child!! We promptly discontinued the meds. and he was back to 'normal'. What a scary time. He was never in trouble at school before and I think this was just another blow to his already fragile self esteem.
My whole point in this long drama is that we tried to follow their rules about how to help my child instead of listening to my heart (as we know now is the best policy). My son is now 9 1/2 and we have been totally unschooling for the past 4 months. He is much more confident in his self, he is respectful toward others, he has overcome the anger problems he had when he was 5-6, he is very compassionate, and he now even enjoys the morning snuggle time. He was one of those babies that hated to be held. I have often wondered if it was because he developed pneumonia at birth and was in PICU for a week before he could be held. I asked one of the counselors that and she denied that that could be a factor. ???
He has recently decided he wanted a mohawk so I got out my trusty clippers and gave him a new hairdo. This child has blossomed away from the criticism of his school system friends. No medication needed here.
<<<<Elementary (6-11 years)
a.. Behaviors may continue across home, school, and community settings.
b.. Beginning academic problems.
c.. Impulsivity and motor restlessness.
d.. Variety of disruptive and aggressive behavioral difficulties.>>>>
The counselor we took him to said that it was obvious that Alex did not have ADHD nor ODD that had been previously diagnosed. I think that the criteria is too vague and subject to interpretation by the examiner for both of these 'disorders'.
I just wanted to share my son's story to hopefully help other to see that the 'experts' aren't always right. In fact, in my experience with many different doctors, psychiatrists, and counselors, they have only made things worse for our family. I realize that not all of these professionals are as incompetent as the ones I have dealt with, so this is not a general statement, but a personal experience. I have found that patience, compassion, love, and understanding have worked best for us.
Kimber
momma to ds 9, dd 6
Living, learning, and loving every day
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<<<Infancy (0 to 18 months)
a.. Irregularities in sleeping and eating patterns
b.. High activity level
c.. Low tolerance of stimulation and physical affection
d.. May be colicky, fussy and/or irritable
e.. Difficult to calm or soothe
f.. Difficult to hold due to restlessness and overactivity
g.. Does not show a preference for being held or cuddled >>>>
*****My son did have these signs/symptoms at that age.........
<<<<Toddler (18 months to 3 years)
a.. Short attention span
b.. Impulsivity
c.. Restlessness and overactivity
d.. More difficult to manage than other children of the same age
e.. Perceived by caretakers as rebellious or non-compliant >>>>
***My son had these as well.............
<<<<Preschool (3 to 6 years)
a.. Low patience level
b.. Displays aggression
c.. Increasing difficulties with peer relationships
d.. Gradually become more openly defiant towards adults>>>>
***My son had these 'symptoms' during kindergarten and we were advised by his kindergarten teacher to have him tested. We did and he was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. They strongly recommended medicating him but we pulled him out of school instead. I just could not believe that my child was 'not right'......he just seemed (to me) to behave like a 5 y/o little boy. ??
Anyway, we kept him home for a year and he seemed to really mature and calm down some so he was able to handle the school situation. In fact, he was wanting to go back to school. I had to go back to work, so homeschooling wasn't an option at that time. He did fine for the second half of 1st grade, all of 2nd grade, and some of 3rd. By semester of 3rd grade, the problems really started again with the school system. He seemed so depressed so we took him to counseling to see if that might help. (My brother was murdered when my son was 3 1/2 and I think it had a large impact on him besides all of the family hx of depression/bipolar disorders). She recommended medicating him for depression and we went to the psychiatrist for a scrip...... What a joke. (Can you hear the bitterness in my typing??) We spent about 5 minutes with him and he told us to try this medication and Alex would be like a different child in about a week. That's it. No warnings about what to watch for, nothing. We had fought so hard against medication we he was 5 and now I thought that we had tried just about everything else so this wouldn't be too bad of an idea, would it?? Well, he did change almost overnight. He seemed happier that he had ever been, slept about 5-6 hours a night, he quit eating so much (comfort eating--he is chubby so for us, less of an appetite was kind of a good thing), he played outside much more--very active, then the real problems started................. He ended up stealing a cd-rom from the school bookfair and threatened a child (he offered to kill her and chop her head off if she wouldn't leave him alone). This was not my child!! We promptly discontinued the meds. and he was back to 'normal'. What a scary time. He was never in trouble at school before and I think this was just another blow to his already fragile self esteem.
My whole point in this long drama is that we tried to follow their rules about how to help my child instead of listening to my heart (as we know now is the best policy). My son is now 9 1/2 and we have been totally unschooling for the past 4 months. He is much more confident in his self, he is respectful toward others, he has overcome the anger problems he had when he was 5-6, he is very compassionate, and he now even enjoys the morning snuggle time. He was one of those babies that hated to be held. I have often wondered if it was because he developed pneumonia at birth and was in PICU for a week before he could be held. I asked one of the counselors that and she denied that that could be a factor. ???
He has recently decided he wanted a mohawk so I got out my trusty clippers and gave him a new hairdo. This child has blossomed away from the criticism of his school system friends. No medication needed here.
<<<<Elementary (6-11 years)
a.. Behaviors may continue across home, school, and community settings.
b.. Beginning academic problems.
c.. Impulsivity and motor restlessness.
d.. Variety of disruptive and aggressive behavioral difficulties.>>>>
The counselor we took him to said that it was obvious that Alex did not have ADHD nor ODD that had been previously diagnosed. I think that the criteria is too vague and subject to interpretation by the examiner for both of these 'disorders'.
I just wanted to share my son's story to hopefully help other to see that the 'experts' aren't always right. In fact, in my experience with many different doctors, psychiatrists, and counselors, they have only made things worse for our family. I realize that not all of these professionals are as incompetent as the ones I have dealt with, so this is not a general statement, but a personal experience. I have found that patience, compassion, love, and understanding have worked best for us.
Kimber
momma to ds 9, dd 6
Living, learning, and loving every day
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Mary,
I had never heard of this either, thought it was ADD, and I feel like I'm pretty well read on things too, but not that one! I'll have to go read the web site, I'm wondering if it will help me draw conclusions about some med questions. Like, would a couple of counseling sessions get me off meds? Kind-of like your daughter?
Take Care,
Kelli
Mary Bianco wrote:Okay I went and found a web site on this. I'm not trying to be a smart ass
here but I never heard of this thing before. And the site listed 9
characteristics. Well my oldest, when she was 11 and 12, showed 8 of the 9.
Is this disorder real or just a kid who needs to find another way to handle
himself and parents who need to do that too.
BTW, we did get my daughter counseling and she was briefly on Celexa and is
fine now and off meds and counseling.
Mary B
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had never heard of this either, thought it was ADD, and I feel like I'm pretty well read on things too, but not that one! I'll have to go read the web site, I'm wondering if it will help me draw conclusions about some med questions. Like, would a couple of counseling sessions get me off meds? Kind-of like your daughter?
Take Care,
Kelli
Mary Bianco wrote:Okay I went and found a web site on this. I'm not trying to be a smart ass
here but I never heard of this thing before. And the site listed 9
characteristics. Well my oldest, when she was 11 and 12, showed 8 of the 9.
Is this disorder real or just a kid who needs to find another way to handle
himself and parents who need to do that too.
BTW, we did get my daughter counseling and she was briefly on Celexa and is
fine now and off meds and counseling.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
Ugh, I can't even imagine what my son would be like if he had to deal with school, and all the rules and punishments some families use. I'm so glad I never went to any of the "professionals" or even looked into medication. I, too, thought he was just being a normal little boy until my second son came, and I started baby-sitting the neighbor's two sons. Several people have tried telling me he has ADHD too, but he does not have even one of those symptoms, thank goodness.
Myranda
From: Kimber
I just wanted to share my son's story to hopefully help other to see that the 'experts' aren't always right. In fact, in my experience with many different doctors, psychiatrists, and counselors, they have only made things worse for our family. I realize that not all of these professionals are as incompetent as the ones I have dealt with, so this is not a general statement, but a personal experience. I have found that patience, compassion, love, and understanding have worked best for us.
Kimber
momma to ds 9, dd 6
Living, learning, and loving every day
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Myranda
From: Kimber
I just wanted to share my son's story to hopefully help other to see that the 'experts' aren't always right. In fact, in my experience with many different doctors, psychiatrists, and counselors, they have only made things worse for our family. I realize that not all of these professionals are as incompetent as the ones I have dealt with, so this is not a general statement, but a personal experience. I have found that patience, compassion, love, and understanding have worked best for us.
Kimber
momma to ds 9, dd 6
Living, learning, and loving every day
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Shyrley
On 2 Oct 02, at 16:39, Myranda wrote:
are used to decribe the more extreme ends of the bahavioural
spectrum.
My first child cried constantly from birth. She would sleep in 20 min
burts and then cry for 10 hours whatever I did. She didn't sleep the
night until she was 3 (I had 2 others by then) but would wake 5 or 6
times a night. She had night terrors, would attack anything within
range, Destroyed her bedroom on several occasions. It was hard.
But, she walked unsupported at 6 months, was talking non-stop by
a year, taught herself to read at 3 and still only needs 5 hours
sleep a nigt.
A doctor would probably label her hyperactive and want to drug her.
She had trouble in school as she was so bored and impatient and
would answer questions before the rest of the class. The teacher
was constantly telling her to be quiet.
Sher's 10 now and is still filled with energy and is very emotional
but I wouldn't give her a label. She is herself and will be one of
those hyper people her entire life.
It's tough sometimes because she is always on the go and always
talking and wanting to know things but I wouldn't never change her :-
)
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> I wish it was that easy to explain away. However, my son showed theI think that some kids are jus born like that and all those labels
> signs of it before he was a year old... even as a newborn. I really
> don't think that culture brainwashed him into it at that early age.
>
> Compassion? I use it every day.
> Myranda
>
are used to decribe the more extreme ends of the bahavioural
spectrum.
My first child cried constantly from birth. She would sleep in 20 min
burts and then cry for 10 hours whatever I did. She didn't sleep the
night until she was 3 (I had 2 others by then) but would wake 5 or 6
times a night. She had night terrors, would attack anything within
range, Destroyed her bedroom on several occasions. It was hard.
But, she walked unsupported at 6 months, was talking non-stop by
a year, taught herself to read at 3 and still only needs 5 hours
sleep a nigt.
A doctor would probably label her hyperactive and want to drug her.
She had trouble in school as she was so bored and impatient and
would answer questions before the rest of the class. The teacher
was constantly telling her to be quiet.
Sher's 10 now and is still filled with energy and is very emotional
but I wouldn't give her a label. She is herself and will be one of
those hyper people her entire life.
It's tough sometimes because she is always on the go and always
talking and wanting to know things but I wouldn't never change her :-
)
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
Betsy
**It was hard.
But, she walked unsupported at 6 months, was talking non-stop by
a year, taught herself to read at 3 and still only needs 5 hours
sleep a night.**
This will be such an advantage to her if she wants to be a doctor and
get through the brutal hours as a resident. Or, in any career, she'll
have energy for both work and family. She's probably going to
accomplish a lot in her adult life.
Betsy
But, she walked unsupported at 6 months, was talking non-stop by
a year, taught herself to read at 3 and still only needs 5 hours
sleep a night.**
This will be such an advantage to her if she wants to be a doctor and
get through the brutal hours as a resident. Or, in any career, she'll
have energy for both work and family. She's probably going to
accomplish a lot in her adult life.
Betsy
Shyrley
On 3 Oct 02, at 9:39, Betsy wrote:
See, I'm raising them right.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
> **It was hard.At the moment she wants to live in a yurt and be a hippy :-)
> But, she walked unsupported at 6 months, was talking non-stop by a
> year, taught herself to read at 3 and still only needs 5 hours sleep a
> night.**
>
>
> This will be such an advantage to her if she wants to be a doctor and
> get through the brutal hours as a resident. Or, in any career, she'll
> have energy for both work and family. She's probably going to
> accomplish a lot in her adult life.
>
> Betsy
>
See, I'm raising them right.
Shyrley
"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/3/02 2:11:46 AM Central Daylight Time,
freeform@... writes:
about her (Nancy's life not her Mom's life. <g>) But (me playing doctor here)
I have come to think Nancy might have had ODD. She was difficult from birth.
She had to have a total blood transfusion (its been a while since I read the
book so I can't remember exactly why...) soon after birth, she was a very
fussy, difficult baby. She didn't like to be held, when her siblings were
born she was more than the usual jealous towards them and very abusive at
such a young age. She had a definite Antisocial personality from the get go.
I don't subscribe to labels much, but I do believe she had ODD. And I believe
it manifested itself at a very young age, in her.
JMHO
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
freeform@... writes:
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 16:39:33 -0400 "Myranda" <myrandab@...>I don't know how many of you have read the book Nancy Spurgeon's mother wrote
> writes:
> > I wish it was that easy to explain away. However, my son showed the
> > signs of it before he was a year old... even as a newborn. I really
> > don't think that culture brainwashed him into it at that early age.
>
> What do you see as signs of ODD in a newborn or infant?
>
> I think there are definitely some babies who are more difficult to care
> for. Some are less cuddly than others, some are more sensitive to stress.
> Some are very erratic in their habits, or very active, or more intense in
> their reactions, or slower to adjust to changes or to warm up to new
> people and places. When my daughter was a baby, she had some of these
> traits, and people did tend to pathologize her behaviors - calling her
> "spirited" and "high-need" before she was even a year old. I did read
> some books and find them helpful ("The Explosive Child" really made me
> feel better when she was 5 or 6) but labeling her never helped. What did
> help was to adjust to her difficulties, to stay on her side, to be honest
> with her....
>
about her (Nancy's life not her Mom's life. <g>) But (me playing doctor here)
I have come to think Nancy might have had ODD. She was difficult from birth.
She had to have a total blood transfusion (its been a while since I read the
book so I can't remember exactly why...) soon after birth, she was a very
fussy, difficult baby. She didn't like to be held, when her siblings were
born she was more than the usual jealous towards them and very abusive at
such a young age. She had a definite Antisocial personality from the get go.
I don't subscribe to labels much, but I do believe she had ODD. And I believe
it manifested itself at a very young age, in her.
JMHO
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elissa Cleaveland
> At the moment she wants to live in a yurt and be aThat's what *I* want to be when I grow up!!
> hippy :-)
Elissa Jill
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Kelli Traaseth
me too!!
Kelli
Elissa Cleaveland wrote:
Elissa Jill
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli
Elissa Cleaveland wrote:
> At the moment she wants to live in a yurt and be aThat's what *I* want to be when I grow up!!
> hippy :-)
Elissa Jill
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DIANE HAWKINS
Shyrley:God blessed
your daughter with a mother that lets her be herself and thrive and not be labeled.
She will be a great blessing to you as I'm sure she already is. It does my heart good to hear
about one less spirit being broken. There is hope in this world.
diane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
your daughter with a mother that lets her be herself and thrive and not be labeled.
She will be a great blessing to you as I'm sure she already is. It does my heart good to hear
about one less spirit being broken. There is hope in this world.
diane
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MO Milligans
At 09:10 AM 10/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
Have you considered that these things could be caused by mercury poisoning
from vaccinations? Just a thought.
Todd
"Despite the high cost of living
it's still extremely popular!"
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>a.. Irregularities in sleeping and eating patterns==
> b.. High activity level
> c.. Low tolerance of stimulation and physical affection
> d.. May be colicky, fussy and/or irritable
> e.. Difficult to calm or soothe
> f.. Difficult to hold due to restlessness and overactivity
> g.. Does not show a preference for being held or cuddled
Have you considered that these things could be caused by mercury poisoning
from vaccinations? Just a thought.
Todd
"Despite the high cost of living
it's still extremely popular!"
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
Myranda
Seriously? I haven't looked into the side effects on that. Brett did get all the vacs except for chicken pox (it wasn't out yet). Tyler only got the HepB and polio, and was/is a much more easy-going child.
Myranda
==
Have you considered that these things could be caused by mercury poisoning
from vaccinations? Just a thought.
Todd
"Despite the high cost of living
it's still extremely popular!"
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
==
Have you considered that these things could be caused by mercury poisoning
from vaccinations? Just a thought.
Todd
"Despite the high cost of living
it's still extremely popular!"
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Judy
i was surprised no one has mentioned vaccines before.
as i am surprized no one has mentioned allergies.
many parents have seen miracles occur when offending food are removed.
this book has saved thousands of kids:
Is This Your Child?-Dr. Doris Rapp
http://www.drrapp.com/
-the reason I can not agree with the 'no limits' on junk food school of
thought.
Were we talking all whole, healthy foods, sure. no limits.
But, I severely restrict many substances- I just don't even consider
them food.
Blue gatorade? imagine what that does to a small child's insides. Heck,
it won't even come off their SKIN if they spill it.
There are so many 'foods' that are causing god awful 'behavior' problems
for our children...
i know there are people who are not effected by these substances. I know
that my kids ARE.
and their self esteem and actual physical health are so much better
without the dyes, etc.
and, no- they never spased out as teens and went overboard on junk.
My dd has been a vegan for 4 years- she is so darn healthy she puts us
to shame.
her two older brothers ( one is a personal trainer in the Coast Guard)
both do triathlons and are very conscious of their diets.. ragging on me
all the time that I should be MORE strict with their younger brother and
sister!
Love, Jude
Myranda wrote:
as i am surprized no one has mentioned allergies.
many parents have seen miracles occur when offending food are removed.
this book has saved thousands of kids:
Is This Your Child?-Dr. Doris Rapp
http://www.drrapp.com/
-the reason I can not agree with the 'no limits' on junk food school of
thought.
Were we talking all whole, healthy foods, sure. no limits.
But, I severely restrict many substances- I just don't even consider
them food.
Blue gatorade? imagine what that does to a small child's insides. Heck,
it won't even come off their SKIN if they spill it.
There are so many 'foods' that are causing god awful 'behavior' problems
for our children...
i know there are people who are not effected by these substances. I know
that my kids ARE.
and their self esteem and actual physical health are so much better
without the dyes, etc.
and, no- they never spased out as teens and went overboard on junk.
My dd has been a vegan for 4 years- she is so darn healthy she puts us
to shame.
her two older brothers ( one is a personal trainer in the Coast Guard)
both do triathlons and are very conscious of their diets.. ragging on me
all the time that I should be MORE strict with their younger brother and
sister!
Love, Jude
Myranda wrote:
> Seriously? I haven't looked into the side effects on that. Brett did[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> get all the vacs except for chicken pox (it wasn't out yet). Tyler
> only got the HepB and polio, and was/is a much more easy-going child.
> Myranda
>
>
> ==
> Have you considered that these things could be caused by mercury
> poisoning
> from vaccinations? Just a thought.
>
> Todd
> "Despite the high cost of living
> it's still extremely popular!"
> http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http://www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085>
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
> an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Myranda
We do have a family history of allergies, I've tried doing the elimanation diets on Brett. The only thing that I can see makes a difference is bananas. He tends to get a lot ruder after he has one. Oh, and refined sugar is something we try to stay away from too. He gets big energy spurts with it that last all day, then he's grumpy the next day.
Myranda
i was surprised no one has mentioned vaccines before.
as i am surprized no one has mentioned allergies.
many parents have seen miracles occur when offending food are removed.
this book has saved thousands of kids:
Is This Your Child?-Dr. Doris Rapp
http://www.drrapp.com/
-the reason I can not agree with the 'no limits' on junk food school of
thought.
Were we talking all whole, healthy foods, sure. no limits.
But, I severely restrict many substances- I just don't even consider
them food.
Blue gatorade? imagine what that does to a small child's insides. Heck,
it won't even come off their SKIN if they spill it.
There are so many 'foods' that are causing god awful 'behavior' problems
for our children...
i know there are people who are not effected by these substances. I know
that my kids ARE.
and their self esteem and actual physical health are so much better
without the dyes, etc.
and, no- they never spased out as teens and went overboard on junk.
My dd has been a vegan for 4 years- she is so darn healthy she puts us
to shame.
her two older brothers ( one is a personal trainer in the Coast Guard)
both do triathlons and are very conscious of their diets.. ragging on me
all the time that I should be MORE strict with their younger brother and
sister!
Love, Jude
Myranda wrote:
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Myranda
i was surprised no one has mentioned vaccines before.
as i am surprized no one has mentioned allergies.
many parents have seen miracles occur when offending food are removed.
this book has saved thousands of kids:
Is This Your Child?-Dr. Doris Rapp
http://www.drrapp.com/
-the reason I can not agree with the 'no limits' on junk food school of
thought.
Were we talking all whole, healthy foods, sure. no limits.
But, I severely restrict many substances- I just don't even consider
them food.
Blue gatorade? imagine what that does to a small child's insides. Heck,
it won't even come off their SKIN if they spill it.
There are so many 'foods' that are causing god awful 'behavior' problems
for our children...
i know there are people who are not effected by these substances. I know
that my kids ARE.
and their self esteem and actual physical health are so much better
without the dyes, etc.
and, no- they never spased out as teens and went overboard on junk.
My dd has been a vegan for 4 years- she is so darn healthy she puts us
to shame.
her two older brothers ( one is a personal trainer in the Coast Guard)
both do triathlons and are very conscious of their diets.. ragging on me
all the time that I should be MORE strict with their younger brother and
sister!
Love, Jude
Myranda wrote:
> Seriously? I haven't looked into the side effects on that. Brett did[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> get all the vacs except for chicken pox (it wasn't out yet). Tyler
> only got the HepB and polio, and was/is a much more easy-going child.
> Myranda
>
>
> ==
> Have you considered that these things could be caused by mercury
> poisoning
> from vaccinations? Just a thought.
>
> Todd
> "Despite the high cost of living
> it's still extremely popular!"
> http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=213858.2436161.3858594.2225242/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=763352/R=0/*http://www.classmates.com/index.tf?s=5085>
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
> an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MO Milligans
At 07:18 PM 10/3/02 -0400, Myranda wrote:
Yep, I was being serious. Try a few of these links (recommended by a good
friend)...
http://www.safeminds.org
http://www.autism-mercury.com
http://www.altcorp.com
http://www.cqs.com/toxicmetals.htm
http://thinktwice.com/
http://www.autism.com/ari/mercurylong.html
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr4.html
Todd
"Despite the high cost of living
it's still extremely popular!"
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>Seriously? I haven't looked into the side effects on that.==
Yep, I was being serious. Try a few of these links (recommended by a good
friend)...
http://www.safeminds.org
http://www.autism-mercury.com
http://www.altcorp.com
http://www.cqs.com/toxicmetals.htm
http://thinktwice.com/
http://www.autism.com/ari/mercurylong.html
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~berniew1/damspr4.html
Todd
"Despite the high cost of living
it's still extremely popular!"
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
Liz Reid and Errol Strelnikoff
> We do have a family history of allergies, I've tried doing theIs rudeness a symptom of ODD?
> elimanation diets on Brett. The only thing that I can see makes a
> difference is bananas. He tends to get a lot ruder after he has
> one.
Liz