Sheree Harrell

Mica,

Are you familiar with the number one Contemporary Christian recording
artist from Austrailia (sp?), Rebecca St. James? She was
homeschooled. Her music is very good cross over from Christian to
pop or country (contemporary).

Also, get John Holt's "How Children Learn." And Alphie
Cohn's "Punished By Rewards." These books can be shared with your
husband and therapist.

Sometimes, the best thing to do with others outside of your group(s)
is to not discuss the unschooling style. People simply don't
understand it. Even other homeschoolers. Their comments may only
serve to hurt you and you may never 'enlighten' them; besides that is
not your job anyway. You have kids to raise and educate so how aunt
gladys feels about your homeschooling style is not a priority (unless
she tries to cause you harm by calling social services). In this
case, the least told to her, the better. Not that you are hiding
anything; you simply have other things better to do. And in some
locales, social services simply discriminates against homeschoolers,
especially unschoolers.

A simple statement such as, "My children are gifted and to meet their
intellectual and emotional needs appropriately, we are enrolling them
into a private school for gifted kids." Then enroll them in a cover
school via the internet. There are several available with different
styles and philosophies. My cover school is Progressive Network
Academy and this school was created for my daughter and other kids
who deserve a better, more efficient education. It may not be right
for you, especially if your husband is conservative philosophically.
See it at http://www.orgsites.com/nc/progressivenetworkacademy
There are many other cover schools and they all have their own
philosophies. So, researching several would be best and it would
enable you to find what best suits your family.

I hope this helps..

Please make sure your therapist reads the Holt book just in case she
is talking to social services. Especially if your children have been
labeled with any sort of disablilty even if unrelated to the school
issue as these cases tend to send more intervention by the social
services agencies (in my own research and experience).

You are doing the right thing. Your boys are blessed to have a
compassionate mother-advocate like yourself. You do understand their
true nature as young learners; keep it up and be persistant. Do not
back down, but tread gently and safely with support from your groups.

And groups like this are a Godsend!

Love,
Sheree

Mica

Thankyou Marji, Sheree, Nancy, Rachel Ann, Myranda, Sandra, Todd, Betsy,
Deborah & Mary (and any others I haven't seen)

It was great to get all of your ideas. Yes Todd it did/does feel a lot
better knowing I have you all to write to.

A few of you pointed out how important it is that husband and counsellor
learn a lot more about unschooling before we can discuss it seriously.
I agree absolutely and I tried to make the point in the session but it
was dismissed. I like the way you have all said it and I'm printing out
your words so I can practice the phrases to myself so I can say them
calmly and rationally.

I don't think the counsellor is interested in reading about unschooling
because if I understood her correctly she wants to avoid the details of
our decisions - just wants to stick with the interpersonal relationship
of dh & I. I think the reason she asked me how I would feel about
compromise instead of first asking dh whether he would compromise about
learning more about unschooling, was possibly just for balance (putting
ideas to each of us equally) or possibly because we are keen to not get
into a situation of appearing to ask dh to change because that was his
problem with earlier counselling. It was unfortunate that the
counsellor insisted on sticking with the question as she first put it
instead of taking a different angle or moving on to another issue, or
going back to helping us learn strategies to deal with issues with each
other.

After months (years really) of asking my dh to read some of the articles
I've collected over the years so that we can actually discuss the issue
properly - I really don't think he is going to read anything. However,
it would probably only be fair to prepare a list of the most relevant
reading items to give to them. I'll have to look at them all again - it
isn't easy because I have five folders' worth, and whenever I start to
consider I begin to think that it would be easier if I could identify
the particular issues that bother the other person (which are not
necessarily the same as my own objectives). If I do put the list
together I might try to find a website to place the list for others' to
use if it is needed.

Sandra you wrote "I'm guessing the counsellor was really trying to get
to what they dynamics are between the husband and wife about the issue
of the kids." I think there may be something in this. If that was her
objective she wasn't going about it very well because her insistence on
repeating the same question that I had already stated could not be
answered without being clarified and/or changed led to me feeling
attacked and defensive - feelings which she identified but misapplied to
being related to our parental dynamic instead of the counsellor/client
dynamic. In fact dh mentioned later that he had been surprised because
the angle being taken did appear to be ganging up, but that he could
guess what she was really trying to get to.

It will be interesting to see what direction we take on Friday. Nancy,
we see the counsellor together. I am not averse to finding a new
counsellor if necessary (having been prepared to look hard to find
someone that dh would be comfortable with) but the expense has me
thinking that dh will be reluctant to try any others.

Sheree suggested an umbrella programme - this has also been suggested by
a different friend to placate my dh's conservatism. I've tried several
times (gently) to initiate structured activities but the oldest just
doesn't like them and I am extremely uncomfortable attempting to insist.
The youngest is only 4 and hasn't shown any interest in bookwork. My
philosophy is that the boys learn best from their chosen activities -
from engaging in their world and finding answers to their own questions
(which doesn't stop them also learning from me and others who tell them
things as they become relevant and include them in our activities). I
can't see that philosophy meshing with setting a program before the boys
and urging them to complete this or that because someone out there
thinks it is good for them to know, with the threat hanging over us that
if they don't complete the work then we're failing at homeschooling.

Thanks Betsy, I've reserved some Marcia Williams books from the library.

Mica
ghal9720@...
Stawell, Victoria, Australia

[email protected]

In a message dated 10/1/02 10:13:02 PM Central Daylight Time,
ghal9720@... writes:


> Sheree suggested an umbrella programme - this has also been suggested by
> a different friend to placate my dh's conservatism. I've tried several
> times (gently) to initiate structured activities but the oldest just
> doesn't like them and I am extremely uncomfortable attempting to insist.
> The youngest is only 4 and hasn't shown any interest in bookwork. My
> philosophy is that the boys learn best from their chosen activities -
> from engaging in their world and finding answers to their own questions
> (which doesn't stop them also learning from me and others who tell them
> things as they become relevant and include them in our activities). I
> can't see that philosophy meshing with setting a program before the boys
> and urging them to complete this or that because someone out there
> thinks it is good for them to know, with the threat hanging over us that
> if they don't complete the work then we're failing at homeschooling.

What about asking your husband if he would be more willing to see more
*concrete* proof of the results of your unschooling? I assume your dh is away
at work most of the time? What if you kept a scrapbook of things, ticket
stubs, photos of places and things you do and see, copies of your children's
writing... I know you are in Australia, but some of the states here require a
portfolio of some sort as documentation. How would you feel about giving your
dh that documentation in scrapbook form?

Talk to your kids about maybe making an effort to put out more *stuff* Ask
them to draw more pictures of what they are doing so you can put these up
around the house. Ask them if they would be interested in writing down some
of their adventures. I am not talking about making them or asking them to do
more schoolish type work or book work, just more of an effort to show what
goes on during the day. Does your dh see the proof of your days? Maybe he
needs to see that to feel more comfortable.

Also, is the word unschooling getting in the way? (it does tend to have a
negative connotation to those who don't understand what it means) Maybe, stop
using the word unschooling with your husband? Just call it homeschooling. You
will still know what you mean, he thinks better of it.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

What about writing out a daily log of educational activities? Make
the unschooling look like school. Make lists of subjects covered.
Legos are math manipulatives. Drawing pictures is art. Making mud
pies in the back yard is science. If they ask you why people brush
their teeth, that's health. Run errands around town, that's social
studies. If you read a story together, that's language arts
(reading) as well as whatever subjects the book covers. AAnd don't
forget to write down the educational content of the tv programs they
watch!

Tell your dh that you will cover all of the academic subjects and
then take a half our each night to write down what your children did
in each subject. Be creative and open minded about what fits under
each "subject". Make it sound like school.

Just an idea...
Sheila


> Sheree suggested an umbrella programme - this has also been
suggested by
> a different friend to placate my dh's conservatism. I've tried
several
> times (gently) to initiate structured activities but the oldest just
> doesn't like them and I am extremely uncomfortable attempting to
insist.
> The youngest is only 4 and hasn't shown any interest in bookwork.
My
> philosophy is that the boys learn best from their chosen
activities -
> from engaging in their world and finding answers to their own
questions
> (which doesn't stop them also learning from me and others who tell
them
> things as they become relevant and include them in our
activities). I
> can't see that philosophy meshing with setting a program before the
boys
> and urging them to complete this or that because someone out there
> thinks it is good for them to know, with the threat hanging over us
that
> if they don't complete the work then we're failing at homeschooling.
>
> Thanks Betsy, I've reserved some Marcia Williams books from the
library.
>
> Mica
> ghal9720@b...
> Stawell, Victoria, Australia