Hope I am not too far behind on this...
james e thomas
Hi everyone,
My name is Sharon and I am new to the list. I have been "lurking"
(sounds funny) and enjoying hearing the conversation. I hope that I am
not bringing in something that everyone already talked about. I was
reading a back newsletter from HEM. The topic for two months was a
Marilyn vos Savant the Guiness Book of World Records smartest person I
think it said.
When she was asked about homeschooling she felt that all of the
homeschooled children will fade into the sunset and become stay at home
parents.Of course homeschooling their kids...as if that is a terrible
thing. Maybe the kids loved it so much that they want to carry on the
fun.*grin*
I was amazed at her logic...and wondered what you all thought of it.I
can't see how merely being in public school is going to guarantee my
child a better chance at "success".The illusive word we keep hearing now
that we have teens!
I don't know of many homeschoolers that just stay home because they
usually go on to jobs or other learning experiences. They keep moving and
learning. But I have met lots of public school kids burned out with
school and life in general not having that gusto for learning. Many go on
to college but do not finish or do not use the degrees they aquire.
Would love to hear what you all thought.
Also, I am wondering if you all are hearing as much as we are about
"success". My teens keep hearing that unless they get a degree they will
not "succeed" and will amount to nothing since they won't get a high
paying job. Minimum wage is very feared it sounds like. What ever
happened to people liking what they do? Does ever teen choose a
profession based on money? I would much prefer my kids liking what they
do and living on less than doing something for the money and being
unhappy. That sounds so much like half of the folks I meet in stores,
shops and businesses.
thanks for listening,
sharon
________________________________________________________________
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My name is Sharon and I am new to the list. I have been "lurking"
(sounds funny) and enjoying hearing the conversation. I hope that I am
not bringing in something that everyone already talked about. I was
reading a back newsletter from HEM. The topic for two months was a
Marilyn vos Savant the Guiness Book of World Records smartest person I
think it said.
When she was asked about homeschooling she felt that all of the
homeschooled children will fade into the sunset and become stay at home
parents.Of course homeschooling their kids...as if that is a terrible
thing. Maybe the kids loved it so much that they want to carry on the
fun.*grin*
I was amazed at her logic...and wondered what you all thought of it.I
can't see how merely being in public school is going to guarantee my
child a better chance at "success".The illusive word we keep hearing now
that we have teens!
I don't know of many homeschoolers that just stay home because they
usually go on to jobs or other learning experiences. They keep moving and
learning. But I have met lots of public school kids burned out with
school and life in general not having that gusto for learning. Many go on
to college but do not finish or do not use the degrees they aquire.
Would love to hear what you all thought.
Also, I am wondering if you all are hearing as much as we are about
"success". My teens keep hearing that unless they get a degree they will
not "succeed" and will amount to nothing since they won't get a high
paying job. Minimum wage is very feared it sounds like. What ever
happened to people liking what they do? Does ever teen choose a
profession based on money? I would much prefer my kids liking what they
do and living on less than doing something for the money and being
unhappy. That sounds so much like half of the folks I meet in stores,
shops and businesses.
thanks for listening,
sharon
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
MO Milligans
At 03:17 PM 9/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
Welcome to the group, Sharon :)
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>Hi everyone,==
> My name is Sharon and I am new to the list.
Welcome to the group, Sharon :)
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
MO Milligans
At 03:17 PM 9/26/02 -0500, you wrote:
My thoughts are that maybe they, the PS'ers that went on to college, have
an epiphany, and realize they have a choice to go or not, so they make
other plans. Probably for most of their pre-college lives, they were led to
believe there WAS NO other choice but TO go to college. Don't know where to
find it, but there's a book out there called, of all things, "UNjobbing". I
haven't read it, but I've heard of it, in fact, my wife may just have it
somewhere, not sure :-)
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>But I have met lots of public school kids burned out with==
>school and life in general not having that gusto for learning. Many go on
>to college but do not finish or do not use the degrees they aquire.
> Would love to hear what you all thought.
My thoughts are that maybe they, the PS'ers that went on to college, have
an epiphany, and realize they have a choice to go or not, so they make
other plans. Probably for most of their pre-college lives, they were led to
believe there WAS NO other choice but TO go to college. Don't know where to
find it, but there's a book out there called, of all things, "UNjobbing". I
haven't read it, but I've heard of it, in fact, my wife may just have it
somewhere, not sure :-)
Todd
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
I will choose Free Will" -Rush (& Todd)
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
Fetteroll
on 9/26/02 4:17 PM, james e thomas at meplusfive@... wrote:
I believe that traditional homeschooling (one parent stays home to teach all
children in the family up through the high school years) can be a fine
alternative to an unacceptable public school, but I would not recommend it
broadly unless most schools were inadequate and most parents could teach
everything from English literature to physics. And I don¹t believe that
either is true.
If home-schooling were institutionalized, half of the youthful potential of
Americans would go unfulfilled. Say that a bright young parent sacrifices a
rewarding career to stay at home and teach the children. When those children
grow up, would half of them (one parent from each married couple) also
sacrifice their potential to stay home and teach their own children? If so,
much of the result of home-schooling would be the creation of more
home-schooling parents for the next generation, and so on.
Maybe home-schoolers can justify this loss. If so, please write. I believe
that home-schooling is a noble experiment done for the right reasons, and I
hope to hear why it may prove to be a success.
And her week-later response:
"...Many home-schoolers described how well their kids are doing and their
high hopes for them, but almost no one addressed my concern that a large
percentage of the kids would never use their educations if they became
home-schoolers themselves. Gifted violinists would never be heard in a
concert hall; great leaders would never be able to change society; brilliant
scientists would never have a shot at curing cancer.
Here's a question to ask yourself: Would you want to home-school your sons
and then watch them become home-schooling parents themselves instead of
having careers? This is a serious philosophical issue: If you stay at home
and teach your child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his
child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his child rocket
science, when does anyone ever become a rocket scientist? In short,
home-schooling is easy to recommend for certain individuals, but hard to
recommend for society..."
She seems to have more of a social concern that homeschooling will draw
people out of society.
or apprenticed with someone of the parents' choosing. Even husbands were
often chosen with an eye towards being a good provider. (Or increasing the
bride's family's status ;-) Happiness was what you managed to make of it,
not a goal.
Seems to me that people have always been advised to follow the path of
security which translates into a stable job that pays well. It's just become
more streamlined these days with kids being handed lists of careers that
will need people in the next decade. (And there's probably an even greater
social motive there too, trying to discourage kids from careers that are
already glutted.)
As much as people talk about putting happiness first I think it's always
been unadmittedly secondary to security. It's pretty hard for it to be
otherwise in a society that spends 12 years pounding home the idea of the
needing to spend childhood preparing for good careers as adults. Can you
imagine schools asking kids what their dreams are and saying the school is
there to help them acheive them? ;-)
Joyce
> IHere's her original:
> can't see how merely being in public school is going to guarantee my
> child a better chance at "success".The illusive word we keep hearing now
> that we have teens!
I believe that traditional homeschooling (one parent stays home to teach all
children in the family up through the high school years) can be a fine
alternative to an unacceptable public school, but I would not recommend it
broadly unless most schools were inadequate and most parents could teach
everything from English literature to physics. And I don¹t believe that
either is true.
If home-schooling were institutionalized, half of the youthful potential of
Americans would go unfulfilled. Say that a bright young parent sacrifices a
rewarding career to stay at home and teach the children. When those children
grow up, would half of them (one parent from each married couple) also
sacrifice their potential to stay home and teach their own children? If so,
much of the result of home-schooling would be the creation of more
home-schooling parents for the next generation, and so on.
Maybe home-schoolers can justify this loss. If so, please write. I believe
that home-schooling is a noble experiment done for the right reasons, and I
hope to hear why it may prove to be a success.
And her week-later response:
"...Many home-schoolers described how well their kids are doing and their
high hopes for them, but almost no one addressed my concern that a large
percentage of the kids would never use their educations if they became
home-schoolers themselves. Gifted violinists would never be heard in a
concert hall; great leaders would never be able to change society; brilliant
scientists would never have a shot at curing cancer.
Here's a question to ask yourself: Would you want to home-school your sons
and then watch them become home-schooling parents themselves instead of
having careers? This is a serious philosophical issue: If you stay at home
and teach your child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his
child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his child rocket
science, when does anyone ever become a rocket scientist? In short,
home-schooling is easy to recommend for certain individuals, but hard to
recommend for society..."
She seems to have more of a social concern that homeschooling will draw
people out of society.
> What everHas it ever been that way? In "olden" times men did what their fathers did
> happened to people liking what they do?
or apprenticed with someone of the parents' choosing. Even husbands were
often chosen with an eye towards being a good provider. (Or increasing the
bride's family's status ;-) Happiness was what you managed to make of it,
not a goal.
Seems to me that people have always been advised to follow the path of
security which translates into a stable job that pays well. It's just become
more streamlined these days with kids being handed lists of careers that
will need people in the next decade. (And there's probably an even greater
social motive there too, trying to discourage kids from careers that are
already glutted.)
As much as people talk about putting happiness first I think it's always
been unadmittedly secondary to security. It's pretty hard for it to be
otherwise in a society that spends 12 years pounding home the idea of the
needing to spend childhood preparing for good careers as adults. Can you
imagine schools asking kids what their dreams are and saying the school is
there to help them acheive them? ;-)
Joyce
Jennifer Green
It sounds to me that this poster has never met a truly happy person. That's sad. Happiness
is by far the most important thing in someone's life. Until all of us get that, we will spend our
entire lives trying to live up to everyone else's expectations and die without knowing who we
are.
Jen
is by far the most important thing in someone's life. Until all of us get that, we will spend our
entire lives trying to live up to everyone else's expectations and die without knowing who we
are.
Jen
----- Original Message -----
From: Fetteroll
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Hope I am not too far behind on this...
on 9/26/02 4:17 PM, james e thomas at meplusfive@... wrote:
> I
> can't see how merely being in public school is going to guarantee my
> child a better chance at "success".The illusive word we keep hearing now
> that we have teens!
Here's her original:
I believe that traditional homeschooling (one parent stays home to teach all
children in the family up through the high school years) can be a fine
alternative to an unacceptable public school, but I would not recommend it
broadly unless most schools were inadequate and most parents could teach
everything from English literature to physics. And I don¹t believe that
either is true.
If home-schooling were institutionalized, half of the youthful potential of
Americans would go unfulfilled. Say that a bright young parent sacrifices a
rewarding career to stay at home and teach the children. When those children
grow up, would half of them (one parent from each married couple) also
sacrifice their potential to stay home and teach their own children? If so,
much of the result of home-schooling would be the creation of more
home-schooling parents for the next generation, and so on.
Maybe home-schoolers can justify this loss. If so, please write. I believe
that home-schooling is a noble experiment done for the right reasons, and I
hope to hear why it may prove to be a success.
And her week-later response:
"...Many home-schoolers described how well their kids are doing and their
high hopes for them, but almost no one addressed my concern that a large
percentage of the kids would never use their educations if they became
home-schoolers themselves. Gifted violinists would never be heard in a
concert hall; great leaders would never be able to change society; brilliant
scientists would never have a shot at curing cancer.
Here's a question to ask yourself: Would you want to home-school your sons
and then watch them become home-schooling parents themselves instead of
having careers? This is a serious philosophical issue: If you stay at home
and teach your child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his
child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his child rocket
science, when does anyone ever become a rocket scientist? In short,
home-schooling is easy to recommend for certain individuals, but hard to
recommend for society..."
She seems to have more of a social concern that homeschooling will draw
people out of society.
> What ever
> happened to people liking what they do?
Has it ever been that way? In "olden" times men did what their fathers did
or apprenticed with someone of the parents' choosing. Even husbands were
often chosen with an eye towards being a good provider. (Or increasing the
bride's family's status ;-) Happiness was what you managed to make of it,
not a goal.
Seems to me that people have always been advised to follow the path of
security which translates into a stable job that pays well. It's just become
more streamlined these days with kids being handed lists of careers that
will need people in the next decade. (And there's probably an even greater
social motive there too, trying to discourage kids from careers that are
already glutted.)
As much as people talk about putting happiness first I think it's always
been unadmittedly secondary to security. It's pretty hard for it to be
otherwise in a society that spends 12 years pounding home the idea of the
needing to spend childhood preparing for good careers as adults. Can you
imagine schools asking kids what their dreams are and saying the school is
there to help them acheive them? ;-)
Joyce
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rachel Ann
I think that Marilyn Von Savant has too limited an experience with homeschoolers as a whole, so her picture of what goes on is limited to those who isolate themselves somewhere with their children for 12 or so years, perhaps having contact with other hs.
Her argument against hs is also an argument against stay at home moms etc.
What she doesn't see is the number of homeschool parents who manage to combine career and hs, or who do serial careers, work, homeschool, when the children are older and can remain at home work again.
The brain drain exists not because half the populace doesn't work, but because too many children are shunted into jobs that are unmeaningful to them (ditch digging, the common refrence to a dead end job, are great positions for people who like to use their muscles as they think or dream up stories, ideas etc.). It is immaterial whether the reason for the loss is finacial, or educational, or even motivational. The loss exists. HS is the least of the causes, and probably is the best repair. Learning to do what is meaningful to oneself, regrdless of the difficutlies of the task or the reward, is more likely to inspire the man or woman who cures the common cold (cancer, altzheimers etc etc.) than are the children who are shunted through the typical educational system, and told, repeatedly, if they don't make a particular cut of one kind or another (SAT's, tests of all sorts) that they are limited in what they can become.
The person who cures a disease, finds a way for us to travel to a distant galaxy, proves or disproves that there is a TOE (theory of everything...forget the other acronym) will need to put in hour upon hour, most likely, of poorly funded, unreward work, till they reach their final goal. Studying old and new studies done by others, consulting with people who they may never meet in person, pondering, experimenting, throwing it all out and trying a different path. doesn't that all sound rather unschooling to you?
Most people can't schedule an idea or thought... 9am on tuesday July 12 I'll think of how to (fill in the blank)
Anyway, those are the thougths of this woman.
As far as true success. I think for most of our lives, meaning our lives as humans not my own 44 years here....succes is either fame or fortune...because these are what stand out. It is difficult to point to success as happiness because we never really know how someone else feels. I don't know that success is what it is all about. I am not even sure that happiness is the goal. To me the goal is to have peace of mind about what you are doing...to feel it is worthwhile and that you, as a person are significant and matter to at least someone else in the world. Valued.
Be well,
Rachel Ann who washed her kitchen floor today...hey! I have to be proud of these minor achievements... veggies hide your eyes...chicken and roast are also cooking---
ttyl
Here's a question to ask yourself: Would you want to home-school your sons
and then watch them become home-schooling parents themselves instead of
having careers? This is a serious philosophical issue: If you stay at home
and teach your child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his
child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his child rocket
science, when does anyone ever become a rocket scientist? In short,
home-schooling is easy to recommend for certain individuals, but hard to
recommend for society..."
She seems to have more of a social concern that homeschooling will draw
people out of society.
or apprenticed with someone of the parents' choosing. Even husbands were
often chosen with an eye towards being a good provider. (Or increasing the
bride's family's status ;-) Happiness was what you managed to make of it,
not a goal.
Seems to me that people have always been advised to follow the path of
security which translates into a stable job that pays well. It's just become
more streamlined these days with kids being handed lists of careers that
will need people in the next decade. (And there's probably an even greater
social motive there too, trying to discourage kids from careers that are
already glutted.)
As much as people talk about putting happiness first I think it's always
been unadmittedly secondary to security. It's pretty hard for it to be
otherwise in a society that spends 12 years pounding home the idea of the
needing to spend childhood preparing for good careers as adults. Can you
imagine schools asking kids what their dreams are and saying the school is
there to help them acheive them? ;-)
Joyce
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Her argument against hs is also an argument against stay at home moms etc.
What she doesn't see is the number of homeschool parents who manage to combine career and hs, or who do serial careers, work, homeschool, when the children are older and can remain at home work again.
The brain drain exists not because half the populace doesn't work, but because too many children are shunted into jobs that are unmeaningful to them (ditch digging, the common refrence to a dead end job, are great positions for people who like to use their muscles as they think or dream up stories, ideas etc.). It is immaterial whether the reason for the loss is finacial, or educational, or even motivational. The loss exists. HS is the least of the causes, and probably is the best repair. Learning to do what is meaningful to oneself, regrdless of the difficutlies of the task or the reward, is more likely to inspire the man or woman who cures the common cold (cancer, altzheimers etc etc.) than are the children who are shunted through the typical educational system, and told, repeatedly, if they don't make a particular cut of one kind or another (SAT's, tests of all sorts) that they are limited in what they can become.
The person who cures a disease, finds a way for us to travel to a distant galaxy, proves or disproves that there is a TOE (theory of everything...forget the other acronym) will need to put in hour upon hour, most likely, of poorly funded, unreward work, till they reach their final goal. Studying old and new studies done by others, consulting with people who they may never meet in person, pondering, experimenting, throwing it all out and trying a different path. doesn't that all sound rather unschooling to you?
Most people can't schedule an idea or thought... 9am on tuesday July 12 I'll think of how to (fill in the blank)
Anyway, those are the thougths of this woman.
As far as true success. I think for most of our lives, meaning our lives as humans not my own 44 years here....succes is either fame or fortune...because these are what stand out. It is difficult to point to success as happiness because we never really know how someone else feels. I don't know that success is what it is all about. I am not even sure that happiness is the goal. To me the goal is to have peace of mind about what you are doing...to feel it is worthwhile and that you, as a person are significant and matter to at least someone else in the world. Valued.
Be well,
Rachel Ann who washed her kitchen floor today...hey! I have to be proud of these minor achievements... veggies hide your eyes...chicken and roast are also cooking---
ttyl
Here's a question to ask yourself: Would you want to home-school your sons
and then watch them become home-schooling parents themselves instead of
having careers? This is a serious philosophical issue: If you stay at home
and teach your child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his
child rocket science, and he stays at home and teaches his child rocket
science, when does anyone ever become a rocket scientist? In short,
home-schooling is easy to recommend for certain individuals, but hard to
recommend for society..."
She seems to have more of a social concern that homeschooling will draw
people out of society.
> What everHas it ever been that way? In "olden" times men did what their fathers did
> happened to people liking what they do?
or apprenticed with someone of the parents' choosing. Even husbands were
often chosen with an eye towards being a good provider. (Or increasing the
bride's family's status ;-) Happiness was what you managed to make of it,
not a goal.
Seems to me that people have always been advised to follow the path of
security which translates into a stable job that pays well. It's just become
more streamlined these days with kids being handed lists of careers that
will need people in the next decade. (And there's probably an even greater
social motive there too, trying to discourage kids from careers that are
already glutted.)
As much as people talk about putting happiness first I think it's always
been unadmittedly secondary to security. It's pretty hard for it to be
otherwise in a society that spends 12 years pounding home the idea of the
needing to spend childhood preparing for good careers as adults. Can you
imagine schools asking kids what their dreams are and saying the school is
there to help them acheive them? ;-)
Joyce
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/27/02 8:28:51 AM, hindar@... writes:
<< What she doesn't see is the number of homeschool parents who manage to
combine career and hs, or who do serial careers, work, homeschool, when the
children are older and can remain at home work again. >>
She's also missing the peaceful protest and huge social experimentation
aspect of it.
It's possible that the homeschooling of the past twenty years will result in
school reform sufficient that LOTS of people can work, full or part time, in
the future, and some of those jobs will involve learning opportunities of a
kind not now in existence. And that in the future perhaps kids won't be SO
prevented from working themselves by the theory in this culture that school
is their job.
Not a job producing anything! Not a satisfying "job" and not a source of
income!
My son has worked since he was fourteen. He has learned things working that
I could never have begun to talk to him about, but he knows them in a
real-world way, and it goes on his resume forever. Over two years of loyal,
trusted employment so far, and he's just sixteen.
Sandra
<< What she doesn't see is the number of homeschool parents who manage to
combine career and hs, or who do serial careers, work, homeschool, when the
children are older and can remain at home work again. >>
She's also missing the peaceful protest and huge social experimentation
aspect of it.
It's possible that the homeschooling of the past twenty years will result in
school reform sufficient that LOTS of people can work, full or part time, in
the future, and some of those jobs will involve learning opportunities of a
kind not now in existence. And that in the future perhaps kids won't be SO
prevented from working themselves by the theory in this culture that school
is their job.
Not a job producing anything! Not a satisfying "job" and not a source of
income!
My son has worked since he was fourteen. He has learned things working that
I could never have begun to talk to him about, but he knows them in a
real-world way, and it goes on his resume forever. Over two years of loyal,
trusted employment so far, and he's just sixteen.
Sandra
Rachel Ann
This is so true.
A more cynical me thinks that the real issue is keeping most of the population working for the minority... striving to become better, ie richer, dragging themselves to unfulfilling jobs, so that they never really succedd where it counts, inside.
Like I said, ditch digging isn't the issue, what the job is isn't the problem, it is feelilng that one is of value.
And you are right, most children are made to feel as if learning was a job. Hmmmmmmm...and isn't one of the messages, do it whether you like it or not, whether you find it interesting or not, whether it bores you to tears or not because that is the future?
Maybe the real fear is enough kids will say, No, I'm not going to do this for you when it leaves me feeling like I was nothing more than a machine.
Perhaps, if unschooling becomes popular enough, workers will be saying to their bosses: I will do this because it has meaning to me, it is a worthwhile job, it accomplishes something for the world at large. It produces something that is worth making. It makes me feel good.
be well,
Rachel Ann
She's also missing the peaceful protest and huge social experimentation
aspect of it.
It's possible that the homeschooling of the past twenty years will result in
school reform sufficient that LOTS of people can work, full or part time, in
the future, and some of those jobs will involve learning opportunities of a
kind not now in existence. And that in the future perhaps kids won't be SO
prevented from working themselves by the theory in this culture that school
is their job.
Not a job producing anything! Not a satisfying "job" and not a source of
income!
My son has worked since he was fourteen. He has learned things working that
I could never have begun to talk to him about, but he knows them in a
real-world way, and it goes on his resume forever. Over two years of loyal,
trusted employment so far, and he's just sixteen.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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A more cynical me thinks that the real issue is keeping most of the population working for the minority... striving to become better, ie richer, dragging themselves to unfulfilling jobs, so that they never really succedd where it counts, inside.
Like I said, ditch digging isn't the issue, what the job is isn't the problem, it is feelilng that one is of value.
And you are right, most children are made to feel as if learning was a job. Hmmmmmmm...and isn't one of the messages, do it whether you like it or not, whether you find it interesting or not, whether it bores you to tears or not because that is the future?
Maybe the real fear is enough kids will say, No, I'm not going to do this for you when it leaves me feeling like I was nothing more than a machine.
Perhaps, if unschooling becomes popular enough, workers will be saying to their bosses: I will do this because it has meaning to me, it is a worthwhile job, it accomplishes something for the world at large. It produces something that is worth making. It makes me feel good.
be well,
Rachel Ann
She's also missing the peaceful protest and huge social experimentation
aspect of it.
It's possible that the homeschooling of the past twenty years will result in
school reform sufficient that LOTS of people can work, full or part time, in
the future, and some of those jobs will involve learning opportunities of a
kind not now in existence. And that in the future perhaps kids won't be SO
prevented from working themselves by the theory in this culture that school
is their job.
Not a job producing anything! Not a satisfying "job" and not a source of
income!
My son has worked since he was fourteen. He has learned things working that
I could never have begun to talk to him about, but he knows them in a
real-world way, and it goes on his resume forever. Over two years of loyal,
trusted employment so far, and he's just sixteen.
Sandra
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In a message dated 9/27/02 10:16:48 AM, hindar@... writes:
<< And you are right, most children are made to feel as if learning was a
job. Hmmmmmmm...and isn't one of the messages, do it whether you like it or
not, whether you find it interesting or not, whether it bores you to tears or
not because that is the future?
was stupid and pointless! But instead of report cards, you start to get pay
checks and car payments and credit card payments and mortgage bills!
Sandra
<< And you are right, most children are made to feel as if learning was a
job. Hmmmmmmm...and isn't one of the messages, do it whether you like it or
not, whether you find it interesting or not, whether it bores you to tears or
not because that is the future?
>>Eeeyew, but YES! I suppose it was training for MORE doing what you thought
was stupid and pointless! But instead of report cards, you start to get pay
checks and car payments and credit card payments and mortgage bills!
Sandra
james e thomas
Rachel Ann,
I agree whole heartedly with your thoughts. We hope too that our
children will find the work that they will enjoy but that will be a help
to others. I wish that being a stay at home mom was valued more but I
guess it has to start somewhere and it seems to be in the homeschool
community. The very place that others looking in don't see profitable
solutions coming from. At least our children (the next generation) will
have a different vision.
Don't worry Rachel Ann....I bet more readers this morning will be doing
what you have been doing! I know we are...*grin* The only difference is
we have beans and rice cooking(we're some of those veggies....*smile*)
but I hope we can share ideas anyway. It's all about our families and
children.
sharon
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I agree whole heartedly with your thoughts. We hope too that our
children will find the work that they will enjoy but that will be a help
to others. I wish that being a stay at home mom was valued more but I
guess it has to start somewhere and it seems to be in the homeschool
community. The very place that others looking in don't see profitable
solutions coming from. At least our children (the next generation) will
have a different vision.
Don't worry Rachel Ann....I bet more readers this morning will be doing
what you have been doing! I know we are...*grin* The only difference is
we have beans and rice cooking(we're some of those veggies....*smile*)
but I hope we can share ideas anyway. It's all about our families and
children.
sharon
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.