self taught
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/19/02 2:36:46 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< The difference between an artist who becomes an artist and one who just
takes
art classes, or the difference between a pianist and a piano student is
likely to have to do with how much they did beyond and above the class
assignments.
Doing extra makes you "real" but it doesn't make you self-taught. >>
I guess I see it more as the attitude with the person learning.
I have learned a lot of art from just looking and reading and doing.
But then I've picked up some techniques at classes, without following
everything the teacher taught.
So I feel self taught, but have had teachers. I didn't get a formal
education, or take courses at a college, so that seems self taught enough to
me, even though there have been teachers.
It's maybe just semantics and degrees, but how do you define self taught? I
know it means the person did it themselves, but then at what point does it
fall out of the self taught realm?
The minute another person shows them a tip or technique? A formal class?
I think it's more the attitude of the person and whether they simply pick up
bits and pieces from another person, or if they rely completely on the
teacher to teach them everything.
Obviously this is all arguable. I'm just thinking about this and to what
degrees a person uses classes or other teachers and at what point it isn't
self teaching. Another thing to roll around in the brain and ponder.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< The difference between an artist who becomes an artist and one who just
takes
art classes, or the difference between a pianist and a piano student is
likely to have to do with how much they did beyond and above the class
assignments.
Doing extra makes you "real" but it doesn't make you self-taught. >>
I guess I see it more as the attitude with the person learning.
I have learned a lot of art from just looking and reading and doing.
But then I've picked up some techniques at classes, without following
everything the teacher taught.
So I feel self taught, but have had teachers. I didn't get a formal
education, or take courses at a college, so that seems self taught enough to
me, even though there have been teachers.
It's maybe just semantics and degrees, but how do you define self taught? I
know it means the person did it themselves, but then at what point does it
fall out of the self taught realm?
The minute another person shows them a tip or technique? A formal class?
I think it's more the attitude of the person and whether they simply pick up
bits and pieces from another person, or if they rely completely on the
teacher to teach them everything.
Obviously this is all arguable. I'm just thinking about this and to what
degrees a person uses classes or other teachers and at what point it isn't
self teaching. Another thing to roll around in the brain and ponder.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/19/02 2:27:51 PM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< at what point does it
fall out of the self taught realm?
The minute another person shows them a tip or technique? A formal class?
I think it's more the attitude of the person and whether they simply pick up
bits and pieces from another person, or if they rely completely on the
teacher to teach them everything. >>
I don't see it as just semantics and degrees. I'm seeing it as truth and
integrity.
No great artist is just a subset of his teacher's knowledge. EVERY great
musician goes beyond or around or broader than his teacher or teachers.
I had one guitar lesson and then learned lots more on my own. My teacher (an
older teen) was quite willing to do regular lessons, but I was too impatient
and just went. Sometimes I asked her questions. But if I ever say "I never
had a lesson," I'll be lying because I HAD a lesson, and the offer of more.
I only needed one, and I jumped on and surpassed her within a year or so.
But I was not "self taught" entirely.
I learned to play recorder one afternoon in order to go into a recorder class
as an intermediate instead of into the beginning class. John Truitt had
offered recorder classes through the free university in 1970. I called him
and asked what was the difference between beginner and intermediate. He said
beginners didn't know how to read music, intermediates knew the fingerings of
at least a full scale.
So I learned the fingerings. It was easy because I had played clarinet in
Elementary and Jr. High.
I played with John Truitt throughout the rest of college. We both ended up
taking lessons from Floyd Williams (who later went to Australia to teach),
who was really interested in the period-instruments revival of Renaissance
music in the 1970's.
I would credit John as having taught me to play recorder, and he would be
embarrassed and say "You already knew how!" But he gave me the pointers that
took me from hooting badly into it and playing with some finesse. I went
regularly to his intermediate class. I never ignored his advice. I wouldn't
be telling the truth if I said "self taught" about recorder, but I played
songs I chose myself, and I did research myself all along, in addition to
doing things John and Floyd thought would be good for me.
Sandra
<< at what point does it
fall out of the self taught realm?
The minute another person shows them a tip or technique? A formal class?
I think it's more the attitude of the person and whether they simply pick up
bits and pieces from another person, or if they rely completely on the
teacher to teach them everything. >>
I don't see it as just semantics and degrees. I'm seeing it as truth and
integrity.
No great artist is just a subset of his teacher's knowledge. EVERY great
musician goes beyond or around or broader than his teacher or teachers.
I had one guitar lesson and then learned lots more on my own. My teacher (an
older teen) was quite willing to do regular lessons, but I was too impatient
and just went. Sometimes I asked her questions. But if I ever say "I never
had a lesson," I'll be lying because I HAD a lesson, and the offer of more.
I only needed one, and I jumped on and surpassed her within a year or so.
But I was not "self taught" entirely.
I learned to play recorder one afternoon in order to go into a recorder class
as an intermediate instead of into the beginning class. John Truitt had
offered recorder classes through the free university in 1970. I called him
and asked what was the difference between beginner and intermediate. He said
beginners didn't know how to read music, intermediates knew the fingerings of
at least a full scale.
So I learned the fingerings. It was easy because I had played clarinet in
Elementary and Jr. High.
I played with John Truitt throughout the rest of college. We both ended up
taking lessons from Floyd Williams (who later went to Australia to teach),
who was really interested in the period-instruments revival of Renaissance
music in the 1970's.
I would credit John as having taught me to play recorder, and he would be
embarrassed and say "You already knew how!" But he gave me the pointers that
took me from hooting badly into it and playing with some finesse. I went
regularly to his intermediate class. I never ignored his advice. I wouldn't
be telling the truth if I said "self taught" about recorder, but I played
songs I chose myself, and I did research myself all along, in addition to
doing things John and Floyd thought would be good for me.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/19/02 2:31:12 PM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< But exactly how can a person self teach without the help of others?
We get help from others from the day we're born. If only by observance. >>
I think books have always fallen under "self taught," because when the idea
came along, many of those authors were dead, or thousands of miles away. And
if you ONLY learned it from a book, then you were self taught. You were
lacking the advantage of someone saying "Wait--turn that 30% and it will help
immensely." You did all your own trial and error.
Sandra
<< But exactly how can a person self teach without the help of others?
We get help from others from the day we're born. If only by observance. >>
I think books have always fallen under "self taught," because when the idea
came along, many of those authors were dead, or thousands of miles away. And
if you ONLY learned it from a book, then you were self taught. You were
lacking the advantage of someone saying "Wait--turn that 30% and it will help
immensely." You did all your own trial and error.
Sandra