Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall

>The power we have as parents is enormous but to use it to manipulate
children is
>the epitome of penny wise pound foolish.

Hey Joel,

Could you elaborate a bit as to the harmful ways in which we manipulate our
children? I am in the throws of developing discipline practices that are
successful for my toddler boys (20 months and 35 months) and will soon need
to start all over again when our older adopted girl(or girls) come home, as
I am positive they will be dealing with attachment, trust and abandonment
issues, at the least.

I generally use time outs in his bedroom (2-5 min) for my almost three year
old about once a day (on average, some days less some days more) for series
problems like purposefully hurting his brother and refusing to apoloize,
tantrums, refusing to desist in an activity despite numerous warnings, etc.
This usually has fairly good results, and is always followed up by a quiet
lap conversation about the offending behavior and what he should have done,
and often an apology to anyone who was hurt by his behavior (like brother,
or me or Daddy.) Usually he is raring to go and wants to run off and play
afterward, but occassionally he needs calming after a tantrum and so I will
cuddle with him and pet him and give him lots of reassurance for a while,
until he is ready to get down and play. I never strike my boys.

The Baby (1.5 yr. old) has only ever had three time outs, for about a
minute each, for purposefully pushing and disobeying in a dangerous
situation after numerous warnings (like playing with the electrical cord
while Daddy is vacuming) but he is generally really easy. I try not to
even raise my voice with him, as he is so sensastive that it usually makes
him cry if I look or sound cross. I try to make things into a game and use
humor to teach him, as he does not get upset and is much more receptive to
that. He has a very gentle personality and does not respond well to
agression, and also cries when his brother gets too rough in play (a
frequent problem, with my rough and tumble, sports loving older boy!) We
refer to our "little" guy as our gentle giant, because he is so very
gentle, and quiet but he is the same size as his brother and both wear size
2 or 3 clothes.

On a side note, he has a really interesting personality. Even though he is
shy, people are attracted to him in an irresistable way. My older son is a
BIG flirt and has a magnetic personality, dimples, red hair and blue eyes
with long thick lashes. I KNOW why people are drawn to him, he is cute and
talks incessently to everyone and is not the least bit shy. His brother,
however, is shy and hides from strangers (although he has recently started
waving and saying "Hi" to people) but he has the most amazing affect on
people. Everyone he meets wants to hold him and kiss him and he has this
incredible calming effect on them. People have described feeling washed
over with peace when they hold him. When he was an infant, everyone who
held him fell asleep! It makes me wonder about him, his purpose, or since
I believe in reincarnation, I wonder if he has previously been some kind of
a healer. I look forward to seeing who he will grow to be.

Nanci K. in Idaho

Joseph A. & Susan D. Fuerst

Nanci,
there's a book by Barbara Colorosa....I can't think of the name just now. I
really like her perspective in general.
One principle I remember is about controlling children. Regardless of
methods, if parents expect their children to make no or few choices of
their own and be always 'obedient', then they are more likely to rebel as
adolescents.
BTW, I'm not knocking 'obedience' per se. It's a matter of trying to
control or not. Some parents discourage thinking for oneself through
certain typye of obedience ('Because I'm the mom/dad and I say so', etc.)
I haven't gotten any impression that you're like this, Nanci.
regarding timeouts specifically, I try to use the not as punishment, but
as reasonable times to take a break from a situation, get emotions in
check, and return to the situation with a clearer head. I hope to teach
them that time outs are healthy for adults, too.
Gotta run, toddler needs attention!
Suz
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Date: Thursday, November 11, 1999 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Nurturing Children (and Children who are
Nurturers)


>From: Thomas and Nanci Kuykendall <tn-k4of5@...>
>
>>The power we have as parents is enormous but to use it to manipulate
>children is
>>the epitome of penny wise pound foolish.
>
>Hey Joel,
>
>Could you elaborate a bit as to the harmful ways in which we manipulate our
>children? I am in the throws of developing discipline practices that are
>successful for my toddler boys (20 months and 35 months) and will soon need
>to start all over again when our older adopted girl(or girls) come home, as
>I am positive they will be dealing with attachment, trust and abandonment
>issues, at the least.
>
>I generally use time outs in his bedroom (2-5 min) for my almost three year
>old about once a day (on average, some days less some days more) for series
>problems like purposefully hurting his brother and refusing to apoloize,
>tantrums, refusing to desist in an activity despite numerous warnings, etc.
> This usually has fairly good results, and is always followed up by a quiet
>lap conversation about the offending behavior and what he should have done,
>and often an apology to anyone who was hurt by his behavior (like brother,
>or me or Daddy.) Usually he is raring to go and wants to run off and play
>afterward, but occassionally he needs calming after a tantrum and so I will
>cuddle with him and pet him and give him lots of reassurance for a while,
>until he is ready to get down and play. I never strike my boys.
>
>The Baby (1.5 yr. old) has only ever had three time outs, for about a
>minute each, for purposefully pushing and disobeying in a dangerous
>situation after numerous warnings (like playing with the electrical cord
>while Daddy is vacuming) but he is generally really easy. I try not to
>even raise my voice with him, as he is so sensastive that it usually makes
>him cry if I look or sound cross. I try to make things into a game and use
>humor to teach him, as he does not get upset and is much more receptive to
>that. He has a very gentle personality and does not respond well to
>agression, and also cries when his brother gets too rough in play (a
>frequent problem, with my rough and tumble, sports loving older boy!) We
>refer to our "little" guy as our gentle giant, because he is so very
>gentle, and quiet but he is the same size as his brother and both wear size
>2 or 3 clothes.
>
>On a side note, he has a really interesting personality. Even though he is
>shy, people are attracted to him in an irresistable way. My older son is a
>BIG flirt and has a magnetic personality, dimples, red hair and blue eyes
>with long thick lashes. I KNOW why people are drawn to him, he is cute and
>talks incessently to everyone and is not the least bit shy. His brother,
>however, is shy and hides from strangers (although he has recently started
>waving and saying "Hi" to people) but he has the most amazing affect on
>people. Everyone he meets wants to hold him and kiss him and he has this
>incredible calming effect on them. People have described feeling washed
>over with peace when they hold him. When he was an infant, everyone who
>held him fell asleep! It makes me wonder about him, his purpose, or since
>I believe in reincarnation, I wonder if he has previously been some kind of
>a healer. I look forward to seeing who he will grow to be.
>
>Nanci K. in Idaho
>
>>Check it out!
>http://www.unschooling.com

[email protected]

nanci k,
i can identify with the developing discipline for the little ones. our boys
are 3yrs and 17mos. i am conscious of the manipulation and control that i
exert bc it gets results. and for me somedays getting thru the day-to-day all
day long sometimes yearns for just results, despite the higher ideals i might
have!

we use distraction and redirection mostly for the younger one. the 3yr old
pushes the limit much more and i have most satisfying results when i am able
to figure out what the motivation for his misbehaviour is. for eg. when he
was pulling his older sisters hair, it took me (too long!) several times to
see the pattern of her first yelling or overbearingly telling him something
("bossing"). he got to the point that when she came toward him or opened her
mouth to say anything he would lash out already! so it took working from
both ends: talking to dd about her attitude towards him & why she was getting
this response, and also helping ds find words to communicate his feelings and
talking to him about controlling his hands... it dissipated after that!

the 3yo "bugs" the toddler just by touching or chasing or running away, doing
the opposite of what the toddler wants, why? i hate to say (which i find
myself doing lots) the ineffective "leave him alone" or "keep your hands to
yourself..." other ideas here?

erin