[email protected]

In a message dated 9/6/02 12:16:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< I'm just curious because I guess I haven't run into any of these people.
Are
the majority of Christian homeshoolers like this???
>>
I would have to say the majority think that spanking is fine.
I don't know the varying degrees of hitting and the percentages that would
agree with belts or Ezzo or other BS.
But in the case of homeschooling Christians, they feel that God has directed
them to do it and they seem to fall on the side of very conservative or
fundi. That is my experience, and simply a generalization. I don't think
there's any way to know numbers.
I have heard many of the homeschoolers down here say that they didn't want to
homeschool, they didn't want their kids home but God TOLD them to.
I wonder what kind of voice God had when he directed them to do this thing?
Interesting. I'm still scratching my head over that one.
Apparently God likes having kids home to torture their parents who were happy
they were in school. Poetic justice perhaps? lol


Ren

kayb85

> I would have to say the majority think that spanking is fine.

I think you're right about that. I used to think it was ok too. The
Bible DOES say if you spare the rod, you spoil the child and I DO
believe that the Bible should be our guide for life. What I've
changed is that maybe the word "rod" doesn't mean a literal rod, but
a measuring tool.

> I have heard many of the homeschoolers down here say that they
didn't want to
> homeschool, they didn't want their kids home but God TOLD them to.
> I wonder what kind of voice God had when he directed them to do
this thing?
> Interesting. I'm still scratching my head over that one.
> Apparently God likes having kids home to torture their parents who
were happy
> they were in school. Poetic justice perhaps? lol

If you believed that your house had to be kept a certain way--no
dust, beds made perfectly every day, shiny floors that you could see
your reflection in, never a dish in the sink--it would be so much
easier to do if there were never kids in the house to mess it up. Or
if you believed that you needed time to yourself to sit and watch
soaps all day. Or if you believed that you needed to do all kinds of
volunteer work that you couldn't do with small kids along. Probably a
lot of us have had SOMETHING, somewhere along the way in our
parenting experience,where we say that we would like to do something
but can't because we have kids to take care of. Jury duty or
SOMETHING! lol

But yet, deep inside of us, we know that what we REALLY want to do--
what would REALLY be the right thing to do for our kids-- is to keep
them home.

Christians believe that it is God telling them to keep their kids
home, non-Christians believe it is just their convictions or inner
voice or whatever.

Sheila

Robyn Coburn

<<I think you're right about that. I used to think it was ok too. The
Bible DOES say if you spare the rod, you spoil the child and I DO
believe that the Bible should be our guide for life. What I've
changed is that maybe the word "rod" doesn't mean a literal rod, but
a measuring tool.>>

The following webpage has an excerpt from Mothering Magazine by William
Sears, himself a Christian, about the infamous Proverb "Spare the rod
and spoil the child". I found it very interesting. Briefly, he refers to
other passages about the Rod as the Shepherd's rod of guidance, rather
than punishment. Since Christ is also said to be the "Good Shepherd" it
seems to be lovely way to bring Old and New Testaments together on this
issue.

http://attachment_parenting.tripod.com/ezzo2.html

It doesn't seem to be coming up underlined as a link - sorry about that.
Probably because there is no "www".

Robyn Coburn

Shyrley

On 6 Sep 02, at 18:17, kayb85 wrote:

>
> > I would have to say the majority think that spanking is fine.
>
> I think you're right about that. I used to think it was ok too. The
> Bible DOES say if you spare the rod, you spoil the child and I DO
> believe that the Bible should be our guide for life. What I've
> changed is that maybe the word "rod" doesn't mean a literal rod, but a
> measuring tool.

Doesn't the 'rod' bit (and some think it means a shepherds crook)
appear in the OT which was all negated by Jesus and the NT?
In that christians don't have to obey all the rules in the OT cos
jesus came and you get to go to heaven through grace rather than
works now?

>
> > I have heard many of the homeschoolers down here say that they
> didn't want to
> > homeschool, they didn't want their kids home but God TOLD them to. I
> > wonder what kind of voice God had when he directed them to do
> this thing?
> > Interesting. I'm still scratching my head over that one.
> > Apparently God likes having kids home to torture their parents who
> were happy
> > they were in school. Poetic justice perhaps? lol

heehee

Shyrley


"You laugh at me because I'm different. I laugh at you because you are all the same."

[email protected]

In a message dated 09/06/2002 4:37:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
shyrley.williams@... writes:


> Doesn't the 'rod' bit (and some think it means a shepherds crook)
> appear in the OT which was all negated by Jesus and the NT?
> In that christians don't have to obey all the rules in the OT cos
> jesus came and you get to go to heaven through grace rather than
> works now?
>

That's exactly how I think it is (being a Christian myself). That's why I
don't understand anyone who professes to be a Christian, aka follower of
Christ's teachings, who believes in the rod/spoil, homeschool to get away
from "them", etc. Christ taught to accept all people not just those with
similar beliefs. You should try to be a decent person but that doesn't "buy
you a ticket into heaven". I have no idea what will happen when I die. I have
certain beliefs, but I know that I won't find the answer until that happens.

Ginny, another unschooler in VA




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/6/02 12:18:59 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< I think you're right about that. I used to think it was ok too. The
Bible DOES say if you spare the rod, you spoil the child and I DO
believe that the Bible should be our guide for life. >>

The same part of the Bible that says that says hundreds of OTHER things that
American fundamentalists totally ignore. HAPPILY ignore. If questioned,
they'll start about "the new covenant," and "Jesus died to save us by grace"
and stuff. So they'll eat pork rinds AND spank their kids. If they can eat
pork rinds, they should relegate that spanking-justification to things Jesus
died to save them from, part of the "old" covenant, stuff just JEWS do. Like
not eat pork.

And... come to think of it, does anyone know any Jewish teachers who advocate
spanking children? How come those who are reading that in the original
Hebrew aren't whippin' up on their kids?

Sandra

kayb85

Eating pork is part of the law. So we eat pork rinds because we're
not under the law anymore. There stuff about the rod is in Proverbs,
which isn't a book of law, but a book of wisdom.
Sheila


> The same part of the Bible that says that says hundreds of OTHER
things that
> American fundamentalists totally ignore. HAPPILY ignore. If
questioned,
> they'll start about "the new covenant," and "Jesus died to save us
by grace"
> and stuff. So they'll eat pork rinds AND spank their kids. If
they can eat
> pork rinds, they should relegate that spanking-justification to
things Jesus
> died to save them from, part of the "old" covenant, stuff just JEWS
do. Like
> not eat pork.
>
> And... come to think of it, does anyone know any Jewish teachers
who advocate
> spanking children? How come those who are reading that in the
original
> Hebrew aren't whippin' up on their kids?
>
> Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/6/02 7:08:04 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< There stuff about the rod is in Proverbs,
which isn't a book of law, but a book of wisdom. >>

So Christian leaders who tell their "flocks" (I hate that imagery and analogy
that makes christians sheep to be herded around by "pastors") that God
commands them to chastise their children physically are pretty much
interpreting a proverb as a commandment.

Jesus didn't say to hit any kids. He said it would be better if a man had
never been born than that he harm one of those children.

There is a large block of Christianity which picks and chooses from the Bible
to justify being controlling and abusive. And within that "community" there
are thousands of homeschoolers.

Sandra

toads1and2

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/6/02 7:08:04 PM, sheran@p... writes:
>
>
> "So Christian leaders who tell their "flocks" (I hate that imagery
and analogy
> that makes christians sheep to be herded around by "pastors")..."

> Jesus didn't say to hit any kids. He said it would be better if a
man had
> never been born than that he harm one of those children.
>
>
> Sandra

"The Lord is my shepherd..." In fact, Christ had a real problem with
the priestly establishment... HE is the Good Shepherd and there is a
clear distinction between the "Good" and the "Ordinary" shepherd. The
Good Shepherd seeks out the lost wayward sheep and puts himself
between the wolf (read "evil") and the sheep to protect the sheep and
lead them to a place of safety. The ordinary shepherd runs away and
has no inner resources or physical where-with-all to withstand the
threat of the "wolf" and the dark places.
While the old testement lessons teach the truth of God's authority,
Christ offers a new teaching which has little to do with the "spare
the rod, spoil the child" mentality.