[email protected]

I will try to make this long story short. My mil left our house about an hour
ago, she had had the kids out with her all day. Darin and I try to avoid most
contact with her, and she doesn't offer much *grandma-ness* to our kids. She
isn't the worlds nicest woman. (I could go on about missed birthdays and
other holidays...) But the other day, she called and said she was going to be
in town and wanted to know if the kids could spend the day with her. I talked
it over with Darin and since she hadn't seen them since last Thanksgiving, we
decided it would be okay. She came by about 9 this morning and brought them
back about 8 this evening. We chatted for about half an hour, Darin came home
and they talked for a while. Finally I made motions about dishes, bed times
(right!) and being a bit tired myself, and Darin got her out to her car. Then
he left to go over to a friends house to help put in a new stereo system.
That's when Moly came to me and told me this story!
She said her Grandma had taken them to the park that morning and then to
lunch at a boring old restaurant. (which means somewhere where the kids were
expected to sit still, not talk and not move.) After lunch, they went to see
a "friend" of their Grandma's. This friend gave them some papers to read and
write on and some math papers to do, he asked the kids questions about a
story he read to them, and some pictures he showed them. He questioned them
on spelling and asked Moly about multiplication. Then asked the kids
questions about their "school" (their Grandma calls it our "little school")
what they did, and what Moly says was a "bunch of other stuff". I couldn't
get much more out of her, she says it was just a real boring time, and I
didn't want to get to the point of grilling her, besides I am sure Grandma
told them not to mention this whole episode to me. It wasn't brought up in
the hour she was here and my kids are the type to go over every minute of the
day when telling someone about their day.
And just now, Moly came up to me and asked who her Aunt Rose is! I didn't get
it at first and told her she doesn't have an Aunt Rose. Then she says "My
Grandma says my Aunt Rose will start coming over soon and that Aunt Rose will
visit every month and I shouldn't be scared that she visits all women. Who is
she?" Now I have to explain this to Moly on top of everything else! I am so
mad! I would sue this woman if I new what I could sue her for! And Darin
won't be home for a few hours! He doesn't even know about this yet. What am I
going to do!?! What is going on in this woman's demented head?

~Nancy~ Swearing Mightily


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

Oh MY!!!! I would be SO mad!!!!! In my opinion, you need to
confront her on this and I would not let my kids alone with her
again. Ever. What do you think she is planning on doing with the
test results? Would she "turn you in" for anything?
Sheila


--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Dnowens@a... wrote:
> I will try to make this long story short. My mil left our house
about an hour
> ago, she had had the kids out with her all day. Darin and I try to
avoid most
> contact with her, and she doesn't offer much *grandma-ness* to our
kids. She
> isn't the worlds nicest woman. (I could go on about missed
birthdays and
> other holidays...) But the other day, she called and said she was
going to be
> in town and wanted to know if the kids could spend the day with
her. I talked
> it over with Darin and since she hadn't seen them since last
Thanksgiving, we
> decided it would be okay. She came by about 9 this morning and
brought them
> back about 8 this evening. We chatted for about half an hour, Darin
came home
> and they talked for a while. Finally I made motions about dishes,
bed times
> (right!) and being a bit tired myself, and Darin got her out to her
car. Then
> he left to go over to a friends house to help put in a new stereo
system.
> That's when Moly came to me and told me this story!
> She said her Grandma had taken them to the park that morning and
then to
> lunch at a boring old restaurant. (which means somewhere where the
kids were
> expected to sit still, not talk and not move.) After lunch, they
went to see
> a "friend" of their Grandma's. This friend gave them some papers to
read and
> write on and some math papers to do, he asked the kids questions
about a
> story he read to them, and some pictures he showed them. He
questioned them
> on spelling and asked Moly about multiplication. Then asked the
kids
> questions about their "school" (their Grandma calls it our "little
school")
> what they did, and what Moly says was a "bunch of other stuff". I
couldn't
> get much more out of her, she says it was just a real boring time,
and I
> didn't want to get to the point of grilling her, besides I am sure
Grandma
> told them not to mention this whole episode to me. It wasn't
brought up in
> the hour she was here and my kids are the type to go over every
minute of the
> day when telling someone about their day.
> And just now, Moly came up to me and asked who her Aunt Rose is! I
didn't get
> it at first and told her she doesn't have an Aunt Rose. Then she
says "My
> Grandma says my Aunt Rose will start coming over soon and that Aunt
Rose will
> visit every month and I shouldn't be scared that she visits all
women. Who is
> she?" Now I have to explain this to Moly on top of everything else!
I am so
> mad! I would sue this woman if I new what I could sue her for! And
Darin
> won't be home for a few hours! He doesn't even know about this yet.
What am I
> going to do!?! What is going on in this woman's demented head?
>
> ~Nancy~ Swearing Mightily
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/30/02 10:05:10 PM, Dnowens@... writes:

<< And Darin
won't be home for a few hours! He doesn't even know about this yet. What am I
going to do!?! What is going on in this woman's demented head? >>

Use your energy to document the heck out of this RIGHT NOW while you're still
grumpy about it. Write down what you can remember. Tomorrow, as each child
separately to tell you more.

Find out as much as you can from the kids what the test papers looked like
(without really upsetting them. Was this a true standardized testing
situation? Was her friend a counselor or psychologist? IF SO, you need to
find out who it was, because if they tested children without parental consent
or agreement that might be a problem. (On second thought, the schools never
get parental permission, so maybe not. Unless registration in a school
implies consent.)

If it were me I would ask my mother in law to explain to me in writing what
she had done and why, and until she did that she was not to be alone with my
children.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 12:01:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> If it were me I would ask my mother in law to explain to me in writing what
> she had done and why, and until she did that she was not to be alone with
> my
> children.
>
> Sandra

I talked to Darin when he got home last night and we had a long discussion
about his mother. I calmly (glad I had a few hours and this list to vent)
told him what his Mom had done and he wasn't too upset about it. He was mad
that she had done this, but not too mad, as he is curious to know how the
kids did. So that kind of ticked me off some more. Moly was still up so we
talked to her, asked her to tell us some more about this test she took. She
said she did a book of math questions and had to fill in some dots, then she
said she did a book with short stories that she had to answer questions
about. She said Jack did the same thing. Later the man read a story to the
kids and asked them questions about it then he showed Moly some pictures and
asked her to tell him what all she saw. She said he did the same with Jack.
After that, he gave them each a test with lots of questions about all sorts
of things from math, and english to word problems and questions about
patterns.
Darin and I called his Mom this morning and I kept quiet. Darin asked her
what she had done with the kids yesterday. She said they had gone to the park
and out to lunch, so he asked what they had done in the afternoon and she
vaguely said "Oh, just things. We had some errands to do." (I was mad that
she was lying!) So Darin told her that Moly had told us she had taken the
kids to a friends and had them tested. She finally admitted she had made an
appointment and taken them to a counselors office and had psychological and
IQ tests administered. He asked her why she had decided that it was her place
to do this and she told him that because I am so vague with her about what
the kids do in our little school, she had decided that she needed to make
sure I wasn't harming them or delaying their learning. (This is the point
that I got so mad, I called her a really nasty name and told Darin to take
care that his psycho mother didn't ever come near any of us again.)
She and Darin talked some more and then he and I sat down and talked. He said
that she told him she had intended to give him the results of the tests and
if they were not "up to standard" that she was going to encourage him to put
them into school. She told him that if we were concerned about the schools
then she and her husband had decided that they would help us buy a house
close to them so the kids could go to the local school in the town where they
live and she would take responsibility of making sure they got to and from
school. She said she would take care of them during the day so I could get a
job. (Isn't she grand!) Then she said if the scores were too bad, she was
going to strongly encourage him to leave me, file for custody of the kids and
she would help him raise them. Apparently that is when Darin told her
good-bye and hung up.
We have decided that (I am still not too happy about this) since Darin
doesn't want to cut off all contact with her, we will still see her a few
times a year. But that, she will not be allowed to have the kids for visits
unless one of us is there at all times. I don't have to go to her house, and
she isn't allowed in ours. But I will go because I am the type that has to
know what is going on all the time. <g> And that she can have her test
scores, we are just going to keep on doing what we have been, because we know
the kids are happy, healthy and smart. And we don't need any tests to tell us
that. <g>
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Liza Sabater

nancy,

i can't even begin to tell you how mad I AM at your mother-in-law.
THE NERVE. she obviously is on a power trip. BEWARE. i don't think
this is the end of it. you and darin should talk about the "what
ifs": what if she gets really power hungry and denounces you and your
husband of child neglect? is he ready to go to court and get a
restraining order against her? these are tough questions to answer. i
also think that you need to know who administered these tests --did
they know this was done against your will? if they did, you have 2
recourses: 1) complain to the state board for breach of privacy and
have this go into the man's practice record or 2) sue him for
malpractice. any way you go, you have to take aggressive action.
your mother in-law is a threat to the integrity of your family. i
truly believe she will be back for more.

liza



>In a message dated 8/31/02 12:01:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
>SandraDodd@... writes:
>
>
>> If it were me I would ask my mother in law to explain to me in writing what
>> she had done and why, and until she did that she was not to be alone with
>> my
>> children.
>>
>> Sandra
>
>I talked to Darin when he got home last night and we had a long discussion
>about his mother. I calmly (glad I had a few hours and this list to vent)
>told him what his Mom had done and he wasn't too upset about it. He was mad
>that she had done this, but not too mad, as he is curious to know how the
>kids did. So that kind of ticked me off some more. Moly was still up so we
>talked to her, asked her to tell us some more about this test she took. She
>said she did a book of math questions and had to fill in some dots, then she
>said she did a book with short stories that she had to answer questions
>about. She said Jack did the same thing. Later the man read a story to the
>kids and asked them questions about it then he showed Moly some pictures and
>asked her to tell him what all she saw. She said he did the same with Jack.
>After that, he gave them each a test with lots of questions about all sorts
>of things from math, and english to word problems and questions about
>patterns.
>Darin and I called his Mom this morning and I kept quiet. Darin asked her
>what she had done with the kids yesterday. She said they had gone to the park
>and out to lunch, so he asked what they had done in the afternoon and she
>vaguely said "Oh, just things. We had some errands to do." (I was mad that
>she was lying!) So Darin told her that Moly had told us she had taken the
>kids to a friends and had them tested. She finally admitted she had made an
>appointment and taken them to a counselors office and had psychological and
>IQ tests administered. He asked her why she had decided that it was her place
>to do this and she told him that because I am so vague with her about what
>the kids do in our little school, she had decided that she needed to make
>sure I wasn't harming them or delaying their learning. (This is the point
>that I got so mad, I called her a really nasty name and told Darin to take
>care that his psycho mother didn't ever come near any of us again.)
>She and Darin talked some more and then he and I sat down and talked. He said
>that she told him she had intended to give him the results of the tests and
>if they were not "up to standard" that she was going to encourage him to put
>them into school. She told him that if we were concerned about the schools
>then she and her husband had decided that they would help us buy a house
>close to them so the kids could go to the local school in the town where they
>live and she would take responsibility of making sure they got to and from
>school. She said she would take care of them during the day so I could get a
>job. (Isn't she grand!) Then she said if the scores were too bad, she was
>going to strongly encourage him to leave me, file for custody of the kids and
>she would help him raise them. Apparently that is when Darin told her
>good-bye and hung up.
>We have decided that (I am still not too happy about this) since Darin
>doesn't want to cut off all contact with her, we will still see her a few
>times a year. But that, she will not be allowed to have the kids for visits
>unless one of us is there at all times. I don't have to go to her house, and
>she isn't allowed in ours. But I will go because I am the type that has to
>know what is going on all the time. <g> And that she can have her test
>scores, we are just going to keep on doing what we have been, because we know
>the kids are happy, healthy and smart. And we don't need any tests to tell us
>that. <g>
>~Nancy
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**I talked to Darin when he got home last night and we had a long
discussion
about his mother. I calmly (glad I had a few hours and this list to
vent)
told him what his Mom had done and he wasn't too upset about it. He was
mad
that she had done this, but not too mad, as he is curious to know how
the
kids did. So that kind of ticked me off some more.**

Hi, Nancy --

I would be really ticked off, too. It's hard for me to understand why
your dh isn't more bothered. If a neighbor or an aunt or uncle had done
this, wouldn't your dh be offended? I wonder what would your mil have
done if the test results had confirmed her fear that your kids weren't
learning? Would she have reported you to child protective services?
Who in heavens name is Aunt Rose? I was assuming not a real relative,
but a social worker.

Hypothetically, if your mil had filled out a form in triplicate that
said I suspect Joe and Josephine X aren't raising their children
properly, please test them and send someone to their home regularly to
check up on them, would he think that was an extreme form of meddling?
Does he think people in this country should do that to other people? If
so, why?

I would never let my kids see my mil unsupervised if she had pulled this
kind of stunt. It's not just the meddling -- it's the LYING. Obviously
offering your kids a pleasant day with grandma was not what she had in
mind. She arranged this, in advance, with a completely different intention.

A grandma that would pull a stunt like this would probably also feed
vegetarian kids meat behind their parents back and sneak pagan kids off
to be baptized in her own church. A rebel granny might take a kid to a
tattoo parlor, over your wishes. I don't know where your mil would ever
draw the line and butt out! I'm thinking the only "lines" she will
observe are those that suit her own preferences. I don't think you can
trust her to respect your decisions and authority.

I would also follow-up and ask your kids whether grandma asked them not
to tell. Remember to remind your kids that grown-ups who "do things to
them" and ask them not to tell are a danger. As you know, you want them
always to be willing to tell you what happens to them, and no adult
should try to override that. In fact, if she's trying to hide what
she's done, she knows she's done something wrong.

Betsy

Betsy

**She told him that if we were concerned about the schools
then she and her husband had decided that they would help us buy a house
close to them so the kids could go to the local school in the town where
they
live and she would take responsibility of making sure they got to and
from
school.**


Hi, Nancy --

I'm still vicariously pissed at your mother-in-law.

Looking at her list, I'm thinking she'd probably offer to do the kids
homework for them as well!

snark, snark, snark

Betsy

**Then she said if the scores were too bad, she was
going to strongly encourage him to leave me, file for custody of the
kids and
she would help him raise them.**

Oh ---- man ---- this is ugly! Did she always hate you?

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 10:13:49 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< Who in heavens name is Aunt Rose? I was assuming not a real relative,
but a social worker. >>

Aunt Flo.
Her period.

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 10:13:49 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< I would also follow-up and ask your kids whether grandma asked them not
to tell. Remember to remind your kids that grown-ups who "do things to
them" and ask them not to tell are a danger. >>

OH yes.

And if they say "yes, she told us not to tell," come back here and we can
find you stories of kids who were sexually abused and didn't tell because
they promised, or were afraid, or didn't have a clue what was happening to
them, and you can bury her in little printouts of those. You could mail her
one every single day.

Heck, give us her address and we can ALL mail her stuff.

Sandra

carolyn

I find this story so upsetting. I keep picturing your kids sitting
there trying to maneuver their way through those tests. I hope you'll
talk to them about how they felt about taking the tests, did they feel
forced, why did they submit? Did they realize grandma was being
tricky? Or did they think they were kind of fun and enjoy the
experience?

I'm concerned, of course, that they may have submitted to doing it
because grandma wanted them to but they didn't want to. I hope you'll
talk to them about that and suggest other things they could have done
(call you?) the next time they might encounter similar circumstances.

Carolyn.

Dnowens@... wrote:

> Moly was still up so we
> talked to her, asked her to tell us some more about this test she
> took. She
> said she did a book of math questions and had to fill in some dots,
> then she
> said she did a book with short stories that she had to answer
> questions
> about. She said Jack did the same thing. Later the man read a story to
> the
> kids and asked them questions about it then he showed Moly some
> pictures and
> asked her to tell him what all she saw. She said he did the same with
> Jack.
> After that, he gave them each a test with lots of questions about all
> sorts
> of things from math, and english to word problems and questions about
> patterns.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

Have you considered getting a lawyer? Couldn't you demand that your
mil not see the results of your kids psychological and IQ scores?
Sheila


And that she can have her test
> scores, we are just going to keep on doing what we have been,
because we know
> the kids are happy, healthy and smart. And we don't need any tests
to tell us
> that. <g>

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 12:01:28 PM, nielsonc@... writes:

<< I find this story so upsetting. I keep picturing your kids sitting
there trying to maneuver their way through those tests. I hope you'll
talk to them about how they felt about taking the tests, did they feel
forced, why did they submit? Did they realize grandma was being
tricky? Or did they think they were kind of fun and enjoy the
experience? >>

If it's not too late, I would recommend being careful not to let the kids
think your objection is that they might have done really badly.

I didn't know until Marty was six or seven or so that he thought maybe he was
home because he wasn't smart enough for school. It had to do with something
the neighborkids said.

He has no question now that that's not the case, but he worried quietly for a
while.

<< I hope you'll
talk to them about that and suggest other things they could have done
(call you?) the next time they might encounter similar circumstances.>>

Good suggestion. You could make it general, not just about tests, but about
ANYtime they felt unsure if what they were doing was something you knew about
or would approve, that if they wanted to call you they could. You could
point out that no adult who WAS being upfront would say, "No, don't ask your
mom."

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 1:02:35 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< Have you considered getting a lawyer? Couldn't you demand that your
mil not see the results of your kids psychological and IQ scores? >>

WOOHOO!!
GOOD IDEA!

Except...
She paid for it (maybe, unless it really was her "friend" and not a hired
professional---ANOTHER detail to straighten out, as it's bad enough she lied
to adults but if she lied to the children too, points off from HER test
score) and if she was in the room she saw results in part as it unfolded.

IF they were doing standardized filling in little circles, though, that might
be sent away for scoring (or not). If so, the psychologist might be
contacted.

Heck, contact the psychologist anyway and ask whether he habitually tests
children who aren't with their parents. What are the odds the grandmother
lied to him as well?

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 11:09:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:


> Oh ---- man ---- this is ugly! Did she always hate you?
>

Always. I took her baby away. When all her other kids left home it was just
her and Darin for years. When he went to the Marines, he sent home much of
his paycheck, he used one of his bonuses to buy her a car. He saved two other
bonuses (all hazardous pay bonuses) to put a down payment on a house for her.
When he and I met, much of that stopped, although we lived with her for about
six months and we paid most of the bills for her during that time. (she was
between husbands number 5 and 6) When we got married and had left the
reception, she stood at the curb and cried, saying over and over "My baby's
gone, she took him away." I learned this from one of my Great-aunts who
called me the day we got back from our honey moon to tell me. When I had
Moly, she was so excited, Moly was the first girl in their family in over 40
years. (since Darin's sister was born) When I told her Moly's name and how we
spell it, she told me how stupid it was, handed Darin a list of *family*
names and said she wouldn't be back unless it was changed. She didn't see
Moly for the first 6 months of her life. When Jack was born, she came to the
hospital. I was there for three days before I had him (I wasn't in Labor that
long, it was other things) and she thought I was going to have him. When I
didn't have him that first night, she left saying "Just call me when she
finally has this one." After he was born she threw a fit over his name too,
because she had had an alcoholic uncle named Jack and hated him. (She still
refuses to call him Jack, she calls him Jackie.) I could go on and on, the
list is endless, I am the monkey on her back, her enigma.
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 11:13:42 AM Central Daylight Time,
ecsamhill@... writes:


> Who in heavens name is Aunt Rose? I was assuming not a real relative,
> but a social worker.

She told Moly, in a very confusing, contorted, asinine, ridiculous, old
wives-tale-ish way about getting her first period. Just one more damaging
thing I have to undo. And I hadn't planned on telling Moly about that for
another 6 months or so. (we have covered some basics, just haven't gone that
far yet. Now we have to.)
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 4:15:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:


> In a message dated 8/31/02 1:02:35 PM, sheran@... writes:
>
> << Have you considered getting a lawyer? Couldn't you demand that your
> mil not see the results of your kids psychological and IQ scores? >>
>
> WOOHOO!!
> GOOD IDEA!
>
> Except...
> She paid for it (maybe, unless it really was her "friend" and not a hired
> professional---ANOTHER detail to straighten out, as it's bad enough she
> lied
> to adults but if she lied to the children too, points off from HER test
> score) and if she was in the room she saw results in part as it unfolded.
>
> IF they were doing standardized filling in little circles, though, that
> might
> be sent away for scoring (or not). If so, the psychologist might be
> contacted.
>
> Heck, contact the psychologist anyway and ask whether he habitually tests
> children who aren't with their parents. What are the odds the grandmother
> lied to him as well?
>
> Sandra

:::sigh::: she won't tell us who she took the kids to. And I am not up for
calling the hundreds of psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, counselors,
and LMSW's in this town. I would sue her, but what would that get me? More
headache, and what if we got an anti-homeschooling judge?
~Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

I would sue her, but what would that get me? More
> headache, and what if we got an anti-homeschooling judge?
> ~Nancy

Maybe you wouldn't have to sue her. Maybe just a letter from a
lawyer demanding information would be enough.
Sheila

saka30080

My husband called this one right. He figured that the problem was
way more than the unschooling.

Here's another perspective on the husband not being as alarmed about
his mother as you are. He was raised by her and is used to her
ways. She's not normal to objective observers but for him it's the
norm for her. I have a MIL who's the almost the exact opposite of
me. When she does or says something that gets on my nerves, my
husband doesn't get as upset as I do. He tells me to ignore her and
keep on doing what I'm doing. It works. Fortunately we do not live
close to each other, so I don't have to think about her everyday. My
husband also told me that sons see meddling mothers as loving and/or
caring. I think this is especially true of mothers who were
physically and emotionally distant (my husband's mother is).

If I was in your situation I would talk to her directly. The husband
is (most likely) going to be gentle and a little appeasing. She'll
still have hope in her heart that she can get her way with your kids
and your husband. I'd make it clear to her why she wouldn't be
seeing the kids alone anymore. It doesn't have to be a loud fight
just direct and uncompromising on your part. I'd also offer her some
info on unschooling if you already haven't, maybe help her see that
you aren't following some vague whim.

Cherry in GA

PS-My MIL went through a phase about the time my son turned 2 1/2
about toilet-training. The straw that broke the camels back was when
my husband started parroting her, after having listened to her harp
on it a dozen time. I told him that if he wanted his mother to raise
his kids he should go have children with her. He hasn't taken on her
causes against mine since.



--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Dnowens@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 8/31/02 11:09:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
> ecsamhill@e... writes:
>
>
> > Oh ---- man ---- this is ugly! Did she always hate you?
> >
>
> Always. I took her baby away. When all her other kids left home it
was just
> her and Darin for years. When he went to the Marines, he sent home
much of
> his paycheck, he used one of his bonuses to buy her a car. He saved
two other
> bonuses (all hazardous pay bonuses) to put a down payment on a
house for her.
> When he and I met, much of that stopped, although we lived with her
for about
> six months and we paid most of the bills for her during that time.
(she was
> between husbands number 5 and 6) When we got married and had left
the
> reception, she stood at the curb and cried, saying over and
over "My baby's
> gone, she took him away." I learned this from one of my Great-aunts
who
> called me the day we got back from our honey moon to tell me. When
I had
> Moly, she was so excited, Moly was the first girl in their family
in over 40
> years. (since Darin's sister was born) When I told her Moly's name
and how we
> spell it, she told me how stupid it was, handed Darin a list of
*family*
> names and said she wouldn't be back unless it was changed. She
didn't see
> Moly for the first 6 months of her life. When Jack was born, she
came to the
> hospital. I was there for three days before I had him (I wasn't in
Labor that
> long, it was other things) and she thought I was going to have him.
When I
> didn't have him that first night, she left saying "Just call me
when she
> finally has this one." After he was born she threw a fit over his
name too,
> because she had had an alcoholic uncle named Jack and hated him.
(She still
> refuses to call him Jack, she calls him Jackie.) I could go on and
on, the
> list is endless, I am the monkey on her back, her enigma.
> ~Nancy
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>PS-My MIL went through a phase about the time my son turned 2 1/2
>about toilet-training. The straw that broke the camels back was when
>my husband started parroting her, after having listened to her harp
>on it a dozen time. I told him that if he wanted his mother to raise
>his kids he should go have children with her. He hasn't taken on her
>causes against mine since.

ROFL! Good one!
Tia


No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/2002 11:11:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Dnowens@... writes:


> although we lived with her for about
> six months

How in the world did you handle that??? I think this woman she be
psychologically tested.
Good luck and God Bless,
Collette


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

** My husband also told me that sons see meddling mothers as
loving and/or caring. I think this is especially true of mothers
who were physically and emotionally distant (my husband's mother is).**


Eep! Yes, in my circle of in-laws nagging and emphatically telling
people how they should run their lives is considered an expression of
affection. They really don't understand my response since it pisses me
off mightily.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 10:00:29 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< I would sue her, but what would that get me? More
> headache, and what if we got an anti-homeschooling judge?
> ~Nancy

<<Maybe you wouldn't have to sue her. Maybe just a letter from a
lawyer demanding information would be enough. >>

I would work on the psychologist, who is licensed and subject to regulation,
and see whether maybe what was done was unethical or illegal or against some
protocol.

And if you find anything like that, I would write to the psychologist with a
letter to the mil saying any further such action on their parts would be
cause to call authorities. Maybe.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 10:05:30 PM, Dnowens@... writes:

<< :::sigh::: she won't tell us who she took the kids to. >>

Do the kids have any clue what building they went to or where they ate lunch?
You could figure it out, maybe.

I'd tell her that because she lied to your husband and encouraged your
children to lie (if she did) and because she refuses to tell you where she
took them now, that she's out unless and until she is forthcoming with that
information AND the results of the testing. That they are YOUR children, not
hers.

Either that or blow the whole thing by and drive her even more crazy by not
caring.

I don't know, honestly, and I wouldn't want to traumatize the kids any more
than they are, but maybe they can remember something about where the office
was vaguely, what the guy looked like or sounded like, SOMETHING about his
office (the view, the neighbors, how high up in the building...) and you
could call someone in town who would know lots of counsellors and ask them
who it might've been.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/31/02 10:38:50 PM, savagewilson@... writes:

<< If I was in your situation I would talk to her directly. . . . . I'd
make it clear to her why she wouldn't be
seeing the kids alone anymore. It doesn't have to be a loud fight
just direct and uncompromising on your part. I'd also offer her some
info on unschooling if you already haven't, maybe help her see that
you aren't following some vague whim. >>

I would put it in writing and KEEP COPIES.
It can be really calm in writing, and she can't claim you said other than
what you said.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 9/1/02 9:11:06 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< Eep! Yes, in my circle of in-laws nagging and emphatically telling
people how they should run their lives is considered an expression of
affection. They really don't understand my response since it pisses me
off mightily. >>

Well we might all need to be careful about what we think.

How many of us would smile benignly and cheerfully help our future
what-in-laws clean circumcision wounds, sterilize bottles and heat formula,
hold kids for live polio vaccines (or the future equivalent), drive our
grandkids to daycare when they're two, help them with their reading lessons
when they're four... all that without recommending alternatives?

Not me.

Sandra

zenmomma *

Oh Nancy, I've been so disgusted with your MIL that I haven't even been able
to answer your post! Geez, talk about overstepping the line! I agree with
everyone's outrage and that you should NOT leave your kids alone with her
again. But there were two points brought up that I do have some additional
thoughts on.

You talked about how upset your daughter is by the testing and your
reaction. I think it might be helpful for her to understand that taking a
test is NOT wrong. Kids do it all the time. They do it in school every day.
It's okay that she took a test with grandma. Assure her that you're not
worried that she took it, that she might have failed it, that it might have
harmed her, etc. It's just a test. Then further explain to her that you
think tests are meaningless, innaccurate and unecessary and THAT is why you
have never done tests with her. Tell her that grandma simply did a dumb
thing and wasted her time to try to prove something to you about education
and schools. YOU are completely aware of of smart and amazing and educated
your daughter is. Grandma is the one who needs the test.

That's my second opinion. I think you should take Grandma out for lunch and
then have a psychologist come over to give her some IQ/Psycological profile
testing. See how she likes it :-P~~~~~~~

Life is good.
~Mary



_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
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Linda Greene

Hi. I'm very new to this list, so hesitate to comment on this list. However, I don't think you could sue her. However, you could press criminal charges against her. You could also get a retraining order. I'm sorry you are having this trouble with your mil.

Linda Greene
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: My MIL tested my kids!



In a message dated 8/31/02 10:00:29 PM, sheran@... writes:

<< I would sue her, but what would that get me? More
> headache, and what if we got an anti-homeschooling judge?
> ~Nancy

<<Maybe you wouldn't have to sue her. Maybe just a letter from a
lawyer demanding information would be enough. >>

I would work on the psychologist, who is licensed and subject to regulation,
and see whether maybe what was done was unethical or illegal or against some
protocol.

And if you find anything like that, I would write to the psychologist with a
letter to the mil saying any further such action on their parts would be
cause to call authorities. Maybe.

Sandra


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
>How many of us would smile benignly and cheerfully help our future
>what-in-laws clean circumcision wounds, sterilize bottles and heat formula,
>hold kids for live polio vaccines (or the future equivalent), drive our
>grandkids to daycare when they're two, help them with their reading lessons
>when they're four... all that without recommending alternatives?

I've thought a lot about this. I've been lucky so far. My daughter
parents the way I did, only better. <g> They've taken my childrearing
ideas a number of steps further than I did, and I think it's great.
Now if one of my boys ends up with a partner who has very different ideas .
. . I think I'll end up with a very sore tongue from biting it so
much. Even with Heather, I *offer* ideas and suggestions rather than
*telling* her what to do. She always listens, and often she follows my
advice. <g>

I do think that any future daughters-in-law will be well aware of the way
Heather is raising her kids. I suspect she will be the one
nagging. <g> All I know is that I would do my best to support the
daughter-in-law's efforts in what I saw as the right direction, rather than
nag about the areas where I disagreed. But I wouldn't actually assist with
things I really disagreed with.

Helen, have you run into this kind of thing with your kids' spouses? If
so, how did you handle it?
Tia

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island

Helen Hegener

At 10:35 AM -0700 9/1/02, Tia Leschke wrote:
>Helen, have you run into this kind of thing with your kids' spouses? If
>so, how did you handle it?

Our two oldest sons both married girls who enjoyed school, but
thought homeschooling was a much better option, maybe because they've
seen what it did for their husbands. <g> Interestingly, both families
have worked it out so the guys worked the first few years after their
children were born and set the family up with their own homes, good
cars, and some money in the bank, and now the girls have taken over
and resumed their careers while the guys are staying home with the
now-school-age girls. Although the boys live in different states
(Washington and Alaska) and only see each other a couple of times a
year, it's interesting to see what similar paths they and their wives
have chosen. And all are completely happy with their decisions.

So I guess the answer is no.

Helen

kayb85

--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/1/02 9:11:06 AM, ecsamhill@e... writes:
>
> << Eep! Yes, in my circle of in-laws nagging and emphatically
telling
> people how they should run their lives is considered an expression
of
> affection. They really don't understand my response since it
pisses me
> off mightily. >>
>
> Well we might all need to be careful about what we think.
>
> How many of us would smile benignly and cheerfully help our future
> what-in-laws clean circumcision wounds, sterilize bottles and heat
formula,
> hold kids for live polio vaccines (or the future equivalent), drive
our
> grandkids to daycare when they're two, help them with their reading
lessons
> when they're four... all that without recommending alternatives?
>
> Not me.
>
> Sandra

Good point! Me either.
Sheila