Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] toy guns
Alan & Brenda Leonard
on 8/29/02 17:14, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
you can have a good laugh about it. If a child, accustomed to playing with
real-looking guns assumes the gun he finds in someone's house is another
real-looking toy gun, he (or another child) might not live to ever laugh
about anything again. THAT'S my point.
I don't think I would wish to count on a young child registering the
difference in weight between a toy and the real thing or that he/she would
assume that just because it was heavy that it shouldn't be played with.
brenda
[email protected] wrote:
> << A gun is not a toy,Oh, please, Sandra. If a child gets confused about real food and toy food,
> and I think that can get blurred by realistic looking toy guns. >>
>
> People say that a lot, and I know that young adults/teens have been injured
> or killed for pointing a realistic looking gun at another teen or adult (or
> policeman).
>
> But my kids had realistic, full-size, anatomically correct baby dolls and
> they didn't get confused. They had realistic full-size toy food and they
> always knew the difference.
you can have a good laugh about it. If a child, accustomed to playing with
real-looking guns assumes the gun he finds in someone's house is another
real-looking toy gun, he (or another child) might not live to ever laugh
about anything again. THAT'S my point.
I don't think I would wish to count on a young child registering the
difference in weight between a toy and the real thing or that he/she would
assume that just because it was heavy that it shouldn't be played with.
brenda
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/29/02 4:52:08 PM, abtleo@... writes:
<< Oh, please, Sandra. If a child gets confused about real food and toy food,
you can have a good laugh about it. If a child, accustomed to playing with
real-looking guns assumes the gun he finds in someone's house is another
real-looking toy gun, he (or another child) might not live to ever laugh
about anything again. THAT'S my point. >>
I understood your point, but I've heard it my whole life and the concern
truly seems unfounded. I've heard horror stories of children who never saw a
real gun, never had toy guns, went to another home, found a gun and pulled
the trigger.
I think too FEW guns and a strong desire and fascination could be worse than
a desire and a ban and shame and forbidding environment.
Others have said and I fully agree that you cannot lift up a real gun and
believe it's a toy gun. And I've never seen a toy gun that looked real. Not
to say there aren't any, but they must be hard to come by because I've never
seen one at all.
My point is children aren't stupid and CAN tell toys from real things,
whether it's food or dolls or guns.
<<I don't think I would wish to count on a young child registering the
difference in weight between a toy and the real thing or that he/she would
assume that just because it was heavy that it shouldn't be played with.>>
The point of Sleeping Beauty is you can try to destroy every spindle in the
kingdom, but it's not goin to work. It only takes one.
So as there are guns in the world, kids who have played with toys will know
more about the difference between real and toy than those who have never
touched real OR toy.
NOTHING will keep children safe from coming upon a real gun except the
personal attention of other human beings.
Sandra
<< Oh, please, Sandra. If a child gets confused about real food and toy food,
you can have a good laugh about it. If a child, accustomed to playing with
real-looking guns assumes the gun he finds in someone's house is another
real-looking toy gun, he (or another child) might not live to ever laugh
about anything again. THAT'S my point. >>
I understood your point, but I've heard it my whole life and the concern
truly seems unfounded. I've heard horror stories of children who never saw a
real gun, never had toy guns, went to another home, found a gun and pulled
the trigger.
I think too FEW guns and a strong desire and fascination could be worse than
a desire and a ban and shame and forbidding environment.
Others have said and I fully agree that you cannot lift up a real gun and
believe it's a toy gun. And I've never seen a toy gun that looked real. Not
to say there aren't any, but they must be hard to come by because I've never
seen one at all.
My point is children aren't stupid and CAN tell toys from real things,
whether it's food or dolls or guns.
<<I don't think I would wish to count on a young child registering the
difference in weight between a toy and the real thing or that he/she would
assume that just because it was heavy that it shouldn't be played with.>>
The point of Sleeping Beauty is you can try to destroy every spindle in the
kingdom, but it's not goin to work. It only takes one.
So as there are guns in the world, kids who have played with toys will know
more about the difference between real and toy than those who have never
touched real OR toy.
NOTHING will keep children safe from coming upon a real gun except the
personal attention of other human beings.
Sandra
Pam Hartley
----------
be in danger no matter whether he's accustomed to playing with guns or he's
been told under no circumstances to THINK about touching anything gun-like.
There was an interesting special on Dateline or some such show about
children put into a room full of toys, and amongst those toys was a real
(unloaded of course) gun. The children had been told by their parents (and
sometimes by the people running the study) that they were never to touch
guns. Some of the girls and maybe one or two of the boys did not touch it.
Most of the boys and many of the girls gleefully picked it up and started
"shooting" each other with it.
A child who plays with toy guns is not inherently in more danger than a
child who has been told all guns are evil, when put into an unsafe situation
as you are describing.
MHO,
Pam Hartley
P.S. My husband's input: "Children can choke on toy food, too."
>From: [email protected]A young child unsupervised in a house with real guns accessible is going to
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 2309
>Date: Thu, Aug 29, 2002, 8:59 PM
>
> Oh, please, Sandra. If a child gets confused about real food and toy food,
> you can have a good laugh about it. If a child, accustomed to playing with
> real-looking guns assumes the gun he finds in someone's house is another
> real-looking toy gun, he (or another child) might not live to ever laugh
> about anything again. THAT'S my point.
>
> I don't think I would wish to count on a young child registering the
> difference in weight between a toy and the real thing or that he/she would
> assume that just because it was heavy that it shouldn't be played with.
be in danger no matter whether he's accustomed to playing with guns or he's
been told under no circumstances to THINK about touching anything gun-like.
There was an interesting special on Dateline or some such show about
children put into a room full of toys, and amongst those toys was a real
(unloaded of course) gun. The children had been told by their parents (and
sometimes by the people running the study) that they were never to touch
guns. Some of the girls and maybe one or two of the boys did not touch it.
Most of the boys and many of the girls gleefully picked it up and started
"shooting" each other with it.
A child who plays with toy guns is not inherently in more danger than a
child who has been told all guns are evil, when put into an unsafe situation
as you are describing.
MHO,
Pam Hartley
P.S. My husband's input: "Children can choke on toy food, too."
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/30/2002 2:21:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pamhartley@... writes:
aren't taught more about that. So far this year, there have been, I believe,
13 children killed by guns. A lot of those were from children just "playing"
with them.
Sadly,
Collette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pamhartley@... writes:
> A young child unsupervised in a house with real guns accessible is going toLiving in the metro Detroit area, it's a sad thing that kids
> be in danger no matter whether he's accustomed to playing with guns or he's
> been told under no circumstances to THINK about touching anything gun-like.
>
aren't taught more about that. So far this year, there have been, I believe,
13 children killed by guns. A lot of those were from children just "playing"
with them.
Sadly,
Collette
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathie
"None of them look like real things. In fact, it seems the toy
companies go to measures to make sure they don't look real. All the
guns I've seen are in colors or have big orange tips on the end."
They do now. I recall a story in the papers several years ago about
a child who was shot by a policeman because he was pointing a black
gun at him (the child at the cop). It turned out to be a toy, but
looked realistic enough at a distance to make the cop think it was
real. After that is when the toy companies were pressured (there may
have been laws passed about it as well, if I remember correctly) to
make their toy guns look anything but realistic.
Kathie
companies go to measures to make sure they don't look real. All the
guns I've seen are in colors or have big orange tips on the end."
They do now. I recall a story in the papers several years ago about
a child who was shot by a policeman because he was pointing a black
gun at him (the child at the cop). It turned out to be a toy, but
looked realistic enough at a distance to make the cop think it was
real. After that is when the toy companies were pressured (there may
have been laws passed about it as well, if I remember correctly) to
make their toy guns look anything but realistic.
Kathie
Laura Johnson
Yes, we do have one of those. I bought it for him a few weeks ago. It makes the loudest clicking sound that makes my skin crawl. It has disappeared and I just don't know where it is... bottom of the toy box I think. The last straw was when he clicked it right in my ear and I spilled spaghetti sauce all over the floor. It was fun for a while. But, the sound was really annoying. He had fun experimenting with what else could shoot out. If you don't mind the sound, they are fun.
Laura J
Laura J
----- Original Message -----
From: Angela S
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 2:36 PM
Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] toy guns
I recently saw some toy guns at the dollar store that shoot ping pong balls.
They looked really cool, but I wondered if they worked very well. Does
anyone have any experience with those?
Angela ~ Maine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Seth W Bartels
>For years he calledour little guy calls em *pewmers*...funny how close their terms are!
>them "pewers" because Star Wars, Star Trek, etc (the shows DH
>watched - we had them on video, didn't have cable and barely >got any
>reception) the weapons do sound more like pew pew than the >typical
>bang bang.
reminds me of LLL meetings and the amazingly similar names kids come up
with for breasts and nursing. :)
i'm glad to have read all of this talk about guns as i've always very
much struggled with the idea that guns shouldn't be toys in a peaceful
world. my boy's always found things that he pretends are guns anyhow and
is not overly aggressive or even very stereotypically *boyish*. it's
nice to have heard everyone reasoning and know i can relax a bit and not
worry that it's going to escalate into him wanting to actually kill
people like he plays. and if he asks for something that i wouldn't have
previously have approved of, i can sit back and understand that he still
is a compassionate and loving boy who can play for play's sake.
thanks for the enlightenment!
lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
My kids talked for months about wanting "pomminas" (phonetic spelling) and I
just couldn't get it, FINALLY someone acted it out for me by shadow boxing ~
they wanted boxing gloves! Put'em up, put'em up! pommina! pommina!
~diana :)
just couldn't get it, FINALLY someone acted it out for me by shadow boxing ~
they wanted boxing gloves! Put'em up, put'em up! pommina! pommina!
~diana :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth W Bartels" <ecotopian@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, 01 October, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Re: toy guns
>
> >For years he called
> >them "pewers" because Star Wars, Star Trek, etc (the shows DH
> >watched - we had them on video, didn't have cable and barely >got any
> >reception) the weapons do sound more like pew pew than the >typical
> >bang bang.
>
> our little guy calls em *pewmers*...funny how close their terms are!
---
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[email protected]
In a message dated 10/5/04 8:49:22 AM, hahamommy@... writes:
<< My kids talked for months about wanting "pomminas" (phonetic spelling) and
I
just couldn't get it, FINALLY someone acted it out for me by shadow boxing ~
they wanted boxing gloves! Put'em up, put'em up! pommina! pommina! >>
Kirby had to show me what he wanted once. He had hoped they would have them
at Disneyland. Here, I wrote it then:
Thu, Feb 28, 1991 Kirby was saying when he’s ten he wants a “sidod” or
something I couldn’t understand, and I kept asking and he kept repeating the same
thing, and said when we go to Disneyland he wants us to get him a sidod. He
said there’s a hole in the middle and you blow into it. I was asking him
questions, like was it rubber like a balloon, and he laughed and said no, that it
was hard and round, and had a hole in the middle. I asked if they had them
at Disneyland and he said I think so, and I asked if he’d ever had one and he
laughed again, and said he’d only seen one on “Pinocchio,” and smoke came
out of it. A CIGAR!? No, a sidog. I told him I didn’t think they did have
those at Disneyland. He said when he眀愀猀 最爀漀眀渀 甀瀀 栀攀 眍娪anted one.
[LATE SUMMER James Winget had a cigar someone had given him and we got Kirby over
there to see if he was interested, but he wasn’t, at all.]
<< My kids talked for months about wanting "pomminas" (phonetic spelling) and
I
just couldn't get it, FINALLY someone acted it out for me by shadow boxing ~
they wanted boxing gloves! Put'em up, put'em up! pommina! pommina! >>
Kirby had to show me what he wanted once. He had hoped they would have them
at Disneyland. Here, I wrote it then:
Thu, Feb 28, 1991 Kirby was saying when he’s ten he wants a “sidod” or
something I couldn’t understand, and I kept asking and he kept repeating the same
thing, and said when we go to Disneyland he wants us to get him a sidod. He
said there’s a hole in the middle and you blow into it. I was asking him
questions, like was it rubber like a balloon, and he laughed and said no, that it
was hard and round, and had a hole in the middle. I asked if they had them
at Disneyland and he said I think so, and I asked if he’d ever had one and he
laughed again, and said he’d only seen one on “Pinocchio,” and smoke came
out of it. A CIGAR!? No, a sidog. I told him I didn’t think they did have
those at Disneyland. He said when he眀愀猀 最爀漀眀渀 甀瀀 栀攀 眍娪anted one.
[LATE SUMMER James Winget had a cigar someone had given him and we got Kirby over
there to see if he was interested, but he wasn’t, at all.]
Penne & Buddies
I caught most of this, but still don't quite know what Kirby was
wanting (not a cigar?!) and if he ever found it at Disneyland. Is
it just me, or were there strange characters strewn throughout the
pasted piece?
Our toddler keeps repeated something that sounds like "Hay-dee's
House" in completely different scenarios, and seems perfectly
confident that whatever she's saying applies to the situation at
hand. We've tried our best to make it into a commentary on the
neighbors, who have a daughter named Hallie, but it's usually a
stretch to make it fit. An example would be when she's settling in
to nurse for the night and looks up into my eyes, saying it so
sincerely and matter-of-factly to me that I'm sure it must be going
right over my head in all its simplicity... no one else has been
able to crack the code, yet, either :o)
HAND-pda
wanting (not a cigar?!) and if he ever found it at Disneyland. Is
it just me, or were there strange characters strewn throughout the
pasted piece?
Our toddler keeps repeated something that sounds like "Hay-dee's
House" in completely different scenarios, and seems perfectly
confident that whatever she's saying applies to the situation at
hand. We've tried our best to make it into a commentary on the
neighbors, who have a daughter named Hallie, but it's usually a
stretch to make it fit. An example would be when she's settling in
to nurse for the night and looks up into my eyes, saying it so
sincerely and matter-of-factly to me that I'm sure it must be going
right over my head in all its simplicity... no one else has been
able to crack the code, yet, either :o)
HAND-pda
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/5/04 8:49:22 AM, hahamommy@s... writes:
>
> << My kids talked for months about wanting "pomminas" (phonetic
spelling) and
> I
>
> just couldn't get it, FINALLY someone acted it out for me by
shadow boxing ~
>
> they wanted boxing gloves! Put'em up, put'em up! pommina! pommina!
>>
>
> Kirby had to show me what he wanted once. He had hoped they would
have them
> at Disneyland. Here, I wrote it then:
>
> Thu, Feb 28, 1991 Kirby was saying when heâs ten he wants a
âsidodâ or
> something I couldnât understand, and I kept asking and he kept
repeating the same
> thing, and said when we go to Disneyland he wants us to get him a
sidod. He
> said thereâs a hole in the middle and you blow into it. I was
asking him
> questions, like was it rubber like a balloon, and he laughed and
said no, that it
> was hard and round, and had a hole in the middle. I asked if
they had them
> at Disneyland and he said I think so, and I asked if heâd ever
had one and he
> laughed again, and said heâd only seen one on âPinocchio,â
and smoke came
> out of it. A CIGAR!? No, a sidog. I told him I didnât think
they did have
> those at Disneyland. He said when
heçæçâæçæ¼çæ¸âç"çâæ æ"âç娪anted one.
> [LATE SUMMER James Winget had a cigar someone had given him and we
got Kirby over
> there to see if he was interested, but he wasnât, at all.]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/11/04 5:17:20 PM, crrbuddy@... writes:
<< I caught most of this, but still don't quite know what Kirby was
wanting (not a cigar?!) and if he ever found it at Disneyland. >>
He saw one in "Dumbo" (when the bad boys go to the happy land, whatever it
was called) and were turned into donkeys.
Sorry there was garbage in the paste-in (which was from a Word file).
Sandra
<< I caught most of this, but still don't quite know what Kirby was
wanting (not a cigar?!) and if he ever found it at Disneyland. >>
He saw one in "Dumbo" (when the bad boys go to the happy land, whatever it
was called) and were turned into donkeys.
Sorry there was garbage in the paste-in (which was from a Word file).
Sandra
Martha Donnelly
Hey Sandra,
I think that was "Pinnochio," not Dumbo.
Martha D.
I think that was "Pinnochio," not Dumbo.
Martha D.
On Oct 11, 2004, at 7:10 PM, SandraDodd@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 10/11/04 5:17:20 PM, crrbuddy@... writes:
>
> << I caught most of this, but still don't quite know what Kirby was
>
> wanting (not a cigar?!) and if he ever found it at Disneyland. >>
>
> He saw one in "Dumbo" (when the bad boys go to the happy land,
> whatever it
> was called) and were turned into donkeys.
>
> Sorry there was garbage in the paste-in (which was from a Word file).
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
>
> Visit the Unschooling website and message boards:
> http://www.unschooling.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/11/2004 6:31:40 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
msahyun@... writes:
I think that was "Pinnochio," not Dumbo.
----------
OH!
You're so right!
Sorry.
Dumbo was Marty's constant movie.
Pinnochio was Kirby's, for a while.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
msahyun@... writes:
I think that was "Pinnochio," not Dumbo.
----------
OH!
You're so right!
Sorry.
Dumbo was Marty's constant movie.
Pinnochio was Kirby's, for a while.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lanie Carlson-Lim
Lilie's movie of the moment is Pocahontas...I had fun looking up the actual history behind it the other day!
We were sitting at the table the other day and she did the little "hello" hand gesture and said "wingapo" it was too cute!
Lanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We were sitting at the table the other day and she did the little "hello" hand gesture and said "wingapo" it was too cute!
Lanie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]