methods of hs'ing
Julie Sisemore
I have spent quite a while, since my kids were very little, reading about
various hs methods. Unschooling...child inititated learning is the one that
philosophically made a lot of sense to me. I see a lot of value in letting
children learn what they are interested in and when. I get HEM and am
always inspired by it.
I think we are going through a growth phase right now. My oldest is getting
to an age, where it seems that talking about things isn't enough learning
opportunity. It used to be easy to just talk about things in the car on the
way to town.... but I can't always answer her questions now. Or my other
kids either as they grow older.
If I let them be each day.... 90% of their day would be watching TV (if I
let them), playing, fighting, and maybe some coloring. While I understand
the value of down time, it seems the last year has been all down time. And
I often see their behavior, when so undirected, to deteriorate into
fighting, whinning, aggravating each other.
Unfortunately the only thing I can usually think of is to require some type
of study or work from them. Which they often resent and doesn't always
produce positive results. My 9 1/2 yo has a lot of interests. But she
doesn't engage in most of them, and just complains about boredom.
I haven't had the experiences I read about in places like HEM, where my kids
go out into our woods for the day and explore, or get out a cookbook and
determine to make a surprise, or choose a particular interest and ask me to
help them further it. They seem so completely unmotivated. It's gone on
long enough as to seem a personalitiy trait, not a passing stage!
So, now that my kids are older, I'm wondering how to make unschooling still
fit for us. Is this just an adjustment stage we're going through? My kids
are smart, and although I'd like it to be of their initiation, I would like
to see some learning take place! Any words of advice?
*Julie Sisemore* mama bear to Caitlin 2/23/90 Zachary 3/8/92 Michael
5/31/93 Taylor 8/20/95 and Alyssa 7/7/98
various hs methods. Unschooling...child inititated learning is the one that
philosophically made a lot of sense to me. I see a lot of value in letting
children learn what they are interested in and when. I get HEM and am
always inspired by it.
I think we are going through a growth phase right now. My oldest is getting
to an age, where it seems that talking about things isn't enough learning
opportunity. It used to be easy to just talk about things in the car on the
way to town.... but I can't always answer her questions now. Or my other
kids either as they grow older.
If I let them be each day.... 90% of their day would be watching TV (if I
let them), playing, fighting, and maybe some coloring. While I understand
the value of down time, it seems the last year has been all down time. And
I often see their behavior, when so undirected, to deteriorate into
fighting, whinning, aggravating each other.
Unfortunately the only thing I can usually think of is to require some type
of study or work from them. Which they often resent and doesn't always
produce positive results. My 9 1/2 yo has a lot of interests. But she
doesn't engage in most of them, and just complains about boredom.
I haven't had the experiences I read about in places like HEM, where my kids
go out into our woods for the day and explore, or get out a cookbook and
determine to make a surprise, or choose a particular interest and ask me to
help them further it. They seem so completely unmotivated. It's gone on
long enough as to seem a personalitiy trait, not a passing stage!
So, now that my kids are older, I'm wondering how to make unschooling still
fit for us. Is this just an adjustment stage we're going through? My kids
are smart, and although I'd like it to be of their initiation, I would like
to see some learning take place! Any words of advice?
*Julie Sisemore* mama bear to Caitlin 2/23/90 Zachary 3/8/92 Michael
5/31/93 Taylor 8/20/95 and Alyssa 7/7/98
[email protected]
julie,
i believe a little instruction in attitude goes a long way in this type
situation... for eg. <<complains about boredom>> are grounds for assigned
work around here, too!! i like the idea of explaining to our children what
we expect... at least it has worked here....
In a message dated 11/5/99 10:31:43 AM, familiesrforever@... writes:
<< My oldest is getting
to an age, where it seems that talking about things isn't enough learning
opportunity. >>
this happened to us, too! it was a year and a half ago i think, and she is
ten now. she just needed more! i was actually glad that i was attuned
enough to her to realize that she needed to be "fed" differently, that she
was growing and changing and had different, new needs. after all, that is
what i see as one of my main roles in this adventure: keeping the environment
rich and being attuned to their needs... so we instituted a little plan. she
and i sat down together and listed all of the things that that were approved
activity for her to choose from. this may sound controlling to some, but i
could tell she needed some direction at the time. we listed things like
reading from a book-list file that i had started of books that looked
interesting or highly recommended for her level, copying text to make a
pretty piece/ show off her improving handwriting (which was pretty bad at the
time, but i wanted her to see that she was improving!) dictate a creative
writing piece to me (having me type for her unleashed her creative juices
w/out tedious mechanics slowing her) cook something, write a letter or send a
care package, cut coupons, sew/knit any other type craft or art work (crop!
for you creative memories folks out there), lead her younger sibs in an
activity, etc etc etc.
i wanted her to know that we are going to be an active learning helping
household. and that tho we "school" differently than most people she knows,
we do valuable things with our time. i have tried to pass on the idea that
it is each persons responsiblity to learn, because it corresponds with my
whole philosophy of why we began homeschooling in the first place! my job
being just to nurture and provide a rich atmosphere for living...
so far it has worked (motivation-wise), but perhaps it helps that i have been
encouraging this since 10yod was tiny..... she launches into projects all
the time... often they do die off pretty quickly, but as some here have
mentioned in the thread about quitting, there is value to getting what you
need at the time out of whatever you are into...
erin
i believe a little instruction in attitude goes a long way in this type
situation... for eg. <<complains about boredom>> are grounds for assigned
work around here, too!! i like the idea of explaining to our children what
we expect... at least it has worked here....
In a message dated 11/5/99 10:31:43 AM, familiesrforever@... writes:
<< My oldest is getting
to an age, where it seems that talking about things isn't enough learning
opportunity. >>
this happened to us, too! it was a year and a half ago i think, and she is
ten now. she just needed more! i was actually glad that i was attuned
enough to her to realize that she needed to be "fed" differently, that she
was growing and changing and had different, new needs. after all, that is
what i see as one of my main roles in this adventure: keeping the environment
rich and being attuned to their needs... so we instituted a little plan. she
and i sat down together and listed all of the things that that were approved
activity for her to choose from. this may sound controlling to some, but i
could tell she needed some direction at the time. we listed things like
reading from a book-list file that i had started of books that looked
interesting or highly recommended for her level, copying text to make a
pretty piece/ show off her improving handwriting (which was pretty bad at the
time, but i wanted her to see that she was improving!) dictate a creative
writing piece to me (having me type for her unleashed her creative juices
w/out tedious mechanics slowing her) cook something, write a letter or send a
care package, cut coupons, sew/knit any other type craft or art work (crop!
for you creative memories folks out there), lead her younger sibs in an
activity, etc etc etc.
i wanted her to know that we are going to be an active learning helping
household. and that tho we "school" differently than most people she knows,
we do valuable things with our time. i have tried to pass on the idea that
it is each persons responsiblity to learn, because it corresponds with my
whole philosophy of why we began homeschooling in the first place! my job
being just to nurture and provide a rich atmosphere for living...
so far it has worked (motivation-wise), but perhaps it helps that i have been
encouraging this since 10yod was tiny..... she launches into projects all
the time... often they do die off pretty quickly, but as some here have
mentioned in the thread about quitting, there is value to getting what you
need at the time out of whatever you are into...
erin
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/5/99 11:31:27 AM EST, familiesrforever@...
writes:
<< I haven't had the experiences I read about in places like HEM, where my
kids
go out into our woods for the day and explore, or get out a cookbook and
determine to make a surprise, or choose a particular interest and ask me to
help them further it. They seem so completely unmotivated. It's gone on
long enough as to seem a personalitiy trait, not a passing stage! >>
Julie,
Boy can I relate! I have never had my kids do the things that the kids in
the magazines do, but, they do voice some interest when I give them several
choices. I get "cool fact of the day" "word of the day" and "today in
history. These things give you several choices, short little blips of the
subject, and if there is interest, we pursue it, if not we look for other
things. This does help some, but there is still no " MOM, I want to learn."
So, I will be content to be a relaxed homeschooler, and take the best of the
unschooling that works for us. There are many people on this list who are SO
helpful, I know you will get some good ideas.
Teresa
writes:
<< I haven't had the experiences I read about in places like HEM, where my
kids
go out into our woods for the day and explore, or get out a cookbook and
determine to make a surprise, or choose a particular interest and ask me to
help them further it. They seem so completely unmotivated. It's gone on
long enough as to seem a personalitiy trait, not a passing stage! >>
Julie,
Boy can I relate! I have never had my kids do the things that the kids in
the magazines do, but, they do voice some interest when I give them several
choices. I get "cool fact of the day" "word of the day" and "today in
history. These things give you several choices, short little blips of the
subject, and if there is interest, we pursue it, if not we look for other
things. This does help some, but there is still no " MOM, I want to learn."
So, I will be content to be a relaxed homeschooler, and take the best of the
unschooling that works for us. There are many people on this list who are SO
helpful, I know you will get some good ideas.
Teresa
Joel Hawthorne
What are your interests? Do you spend time pursuing them? Modeling the pursuit
of your interests can be the most important model they have. Certainly
requiring study is at odds with your underlying hopes. Gordon Neufeld ( a
developmental and clinical psychologist) was talking about the "eclectic"
approach to parenting that people have and how it doesn't work. Behaviorism and
a developmental point of view are really quite mutually exclusive.
I wonder if learning is the same. Allowing freedom of choice when we are
comfortable with the choices and then "clamping down" when we panic are mutually
exclusive behaviours.
I think trying to give oneself over fully to the belief that the "kid's alright"
is the goal. Once you really get that straight all else follows.
Then of course it takes time for the kids to get over all the confusing, mixed
messages we have been sending for so long.
Learning takes place all the time. You can't always see it and it is certainly
not always quantifiable even if you can see it.
Again, learning is taking place. I think that looking to your own interests and
modeling that is the most potent assist for kids in seeing what the love of
learning looks like.
I also admit that I don't know the dynamics of large families very well. Your
kids are really mostly very young. Really really have faith. Nurture their
attachment to you. Don't nudge them from the nest. Independence comes
naturally and at its own pace and really doesn't happen until the late teen
years for most kids.
Enjoy them for who they are now. Don't let a bunch of your expectations and
unrealized dreams of your own contaminate their lives. They are good and okay
and smart.
Their motivation is theirs. You can't make someone be motivated. If they
really are just laid back types who like to just take what comes along. (You'll
know maybe by the time they are 30 or so.) so what? This work ethic thing is
vastly over rated. Henry David Thoreau is needed more today than ever.
You establish the flavor and tenor of your household along with your husband.
You set only the broadest of limits for the children especially as they grow
older. Little ones naturally accept your definitions of how things are and then
their own view emerge when they are ready.
I hear and see myself giving stirring little talks to people and I will publicly
confess that these are as much to myself as anyone else. For me it is an effort
to overcome the devastation of my own childhood. I was dealt some terrible
blows very early on which damaged my abilities to trust in the "rightness' of
anything. They are blows which most people sustain in varying degrees. In my
case they have contributed to a negativity and distrust which is poisonous. I
am grateful that my children are resilient and forgiving.
I am rambling. I am also recovering from a 16 hour shift of overtime ....
Julie Sisemore wrote:
best wishes
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
of your interests can be the most important model they have. Certainly
requiring study is at odds with your underlying hopes. Gordon Neufeld ( a
developmental and clinical psychologist) was talking about the "eclectic"
approach to parenting that people have and how it doesn't work. Behaviorism and
a developmental point of view are really quite mutually exclusive.
I wonder if learning is the same. Allowing freedom of choice when we are
comfortable with the choices and then "clamping down" when we panic are mutually
exclusive behaviours.
I think trying to give oneself over fully to the belief that the "kid's alright"
is the goal. Once you really get that straight all else follows.
Then of course it takes time for the kids to get over all the confusing, mixed
messages we have been sending for so long.
Learning takes place all the time. You can't always see it and it is certainly
not always quantifiable even if you can see it.
Again, learning is taking place. I think that looking to your own interests and
modeling that is the most potent assist for kids in seeing what the love of
learning looks like.
I also admit that I don't know the dynamics of large families very well. Your
kids are really mostly very young. Really really have faith. Nurture their
attachment to you. Don't nudge them from the nest. Independence comes
naturally and at its own pace and really doesn't happen until the late teen
years for most kids.
Enjoy them for who they are now. Don't let a bunch of your expectations and
unrealized dreams of your own contaminate their lives. They are good and okay
and smart.
Their motivation is theirs. You can't make someone be motivated. If they
really are just laid back types who like to just take what comes along. (You'll
know maybe by the time they are 30 or so.) so what? This work ethic thing is
vastly over rated. Henry David Thoreau is needed more today than ever.
You establish the flavor and tenor of your household along with your husband.
You set only the broadest of limits for the children especially as they grow
older. Little ones naturally accept your definitions of how things are and then
their own view emerge when they are ready.
I hear and see myself giving stirring little talks to people and I will publicly
confess that these are as much to myself as anyone else. For me it is an effort
to overcome the devastation of my own childhood. I was dealt some terrible
blows very early on which damaged my abilities to trust in the "rightness' of
anything. They are blows which most people sustain in varying degrees. In my
case they have contributed to a negativity and distrust which is poisonous. I
am grateful that my children are resilient and forgiving.
I am rambling. I am also recovering from a 16 hour shift of overtime ....
Julie Sisemore wrote:
> From: "Julie Sisemore" <familiesrforever@...>--
>
> I have spent quite a while, since my kids were very little, reading about
> various hs methods. Unschooling...child inititated learning is the one that
> philosophically made a lot of sense to me. I see a lot of value in letting
> children learn what they are interested in and when. I get HEM and am
> always inspired by it.
>
> I think we are going through a growth phase right now. My oldest is getting
> to an age, where it seems that talking about things isn't enough learning
> opportunity. It used to be easy to just talk about things in the car on the
> way to town.... but I can't always answer her questions now. Or my other
> kids either as they grow older.
>
> If I let them be each day.... 90% of their day would be watching TV (if I
> let them), playing, fighting, and maybe some coloring. While I understand
> the value of down time, it seems the last year has been all down time. And
> I often see their behavior, when so undirected, to deteriorate into
> fighting, whinning, aggravating each other.
>
> Unfortunately the only thing I can usually think of is to require some type
> of study or work from them. Which they often resent and doesn't always
> produce positive results. My 9 1/2 yo has a lot of interests. But she
> doesn't engage in most of them, and just complains about boredom.
>
> I haven't had the experiences I read about in places like HEM, where my kids
> go out into our woods for the day and explore, or get out a cookbook and
> determine to make a surprise, or choose a particular interest and ask me to
> help them further it. They seem so completely unmotivated. It's gone on
> long enough as to seem a personalitiy trait, not a passing stage!
>
> So, now that my kids are older, I'm wondering how to make unschooling still
> fit for us. Is this just an adjustment stage we're going through? My kids
> are smart, and although I'd like it to be of their initiation, I would like
> to see some learning take place! Any words of advice?
>
> *Julie Sisemore* mama bear to Caitlin 2/23/90 Zachary 3/8/92 Michael
> 5/31/93 Taylor 8/20/95 and Alyssa 7/7/98
>
> > Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
best wishes
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/6/99 3:00:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jhawthorne@... writes:
Julie, you wrote,
<< If I let them be each day.... 90% of their day would be watching TV (if I
same problems you have. I have found with the two sons I am hsing (8&11)
there are times when they are getting along beautifully and times when each
is doing his own thing peacefully.Needless to say this is as close to the
magazine described nirvana we get.
Then there is the rest of the time which constitutes 75% or more of our
lives. What has been working for me is just being with them to keep them
moving in a constructive rather than destructive way. This may not be "real"
unschooling yet but I'm hoping this will help us all get there in one piece.
(There is a considerable size difference in the two.)
Sometimes I read to them while they draw. When I see that they are
getting tired of this activity I move to something else, take walks, even let
them watch some TV. I know this seems contrived but to have our day
deteriorate to constant bickering is maddening. I don't always succeed. I
hope and so far it looks good that by coaxing them along now they will learn
to occupy themselves for even longer stretches of time. This is all new to us
so I don't think it's fair to just expect them to entertain themselves
completely when this is not what they have been doing.
I have to say so far so good. I am amazed at how far we've come in so
short of time.
Laura
jhawthorne@... writes:
Julie, you wrote,
<< If I let them be each day.... 90% of their day would be watching TV (if I
> let them), playing, fighting, and maybe some coloring. While I understandI have had to think about this for a while because I have run into the
> the value of down time, it seems the last year has been all down time. And
> I often see their behavior, when so undirected, to deteriorate into
> fighting, whining, aggravating each other. >>
same problems you have. I have found with the two sons I am hsing (8&11)
there are times when they are getting along beautifully and times when each
is doing his own thing peacefully.Needless to say this is as close to the
magazine described nirvana we get.
Then there is the rest of the time which constitutes 75% or more of our
lives. What has been working for me is just being with them to keep them
moving in a constructive rather than destructive way. This may not be "real"
unschooling yet but I'm hoping this will help us all get there in one piece.
(There is a considerable size difference in the two.)
Sometimes I read to them while they draw. When I see that they are
getting tired of this activity I move to something else, take walks, even let
them watch some TV. I know this seems contrived but to have our day
deteriorate to constant bickering is maddening. I don't always succeed. I
hope and so far it looks good that by coaxing them along now they will learn
to occupy themselves for even longer stretches of time. This is all new to us
so I don't think it's fair to just expect them to entertain themselves
completely when this is not what they have been doing.
I have to say so far so good. I am amazed at how far we've come in so
short of time.
Laura
A. Yates
Seems to me that if I keep busy, then the kids are less likely to bicker. I go to
the barn and do many things. Sometimes they help, sometimes they just find
something on their own to do.
Same at the house. If I keep busy (except when I'm on the computer) they are
more likely to keep themselves busy with something. It usually ends up being
something that makes a total mess, but I guess that's better than the bickering.
Ann
Bonknit@... wrote:
the barn and do many things. Sometimes they help, sometimes they just find
something on their own to do.
Same at the house. If I keep busy (except when I'm on the computer) they are
more likely to keep themselves busy with something. It usually ends up being
something that makes a total mess, but I guess that's better than the bickering.
Ann
Bonknit@... wrote:
> From: Bonknit@...
>
> In a message dated 11/6/99 3:00:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jhawthorne@... writes:
>
> Julie, you wrote,
>
> << If I let them be each day.... 90% of their day would be watching TV (if I
> > let them), playing, fighting, and maybe some coloring. While I understand
> > the value of down time, it seems the last year has been all down time. And
> > I often see their behavior, when so undirected, to deteriorate into
> > fighting, whining, aggravating each other. >>
>
> I have had to think about this for a while because I have run into the
> same problems you have. I have found with the two sons I am hsing (8&11)
> there are times when they are getting along beautifully and times when each
> is doing his own thing peacefully.Needless to say this is as close to the
> magazine described nirvana we get.
> Then there is the rest of the time which constitutes 75% or more of our
> lives. What has been working for me is just being with them to keep them
> moving in a constructive rather than destructive way. This may not be "real"
> unschooling yet but I'm hoping this will help us all get there in one piece.
> (There is a considerable size difference in the two.)
> Sometimes I read to them while they draw. When I see that they are
> getting tired of this activity I move to something else, take walks, even let
> them watch some TV. I know this seems contrived but to have our day
> deteriorate to constant bickering is maddening. I don't always succeed. I
> hope and so far it looks good that by coaxing them along now they will learn
> to occupy themselves for even longer stretches of time. This is all new to us
> so I don't think it's fair to just expect them to entertain themselves
> completely when this is not what they have been doing.
> I have to say so far so good. I am amazed at how far we've come in so
> short of time.
>
> Laura
>
> > Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
[email protected]
Laura wrote:
<< Then there is the rest of the time which constitutes 75% or more of our
lives. What has been working for me is just being with them to keep them
moving in a constructive rather than destructive way. >>
Laura...
I wanted to respond to this, because I also have two boys of almost those
ages (8 and 11 in Nov.)
I find it so hard to keep them moving in constructive ways. Do you have any
tips? I always feel like I'm nagging at them and I hate it. It also does
NOTHING to reduce the tension that all of this creates around here.
The worst problem I seem to have with these two boys is that it seems like
they are always picking on each other or the other sibs...not so much
physically, but verbally. They always have to manipulate every situation or
boss each other or younger sibs around. They're also both very negative and
competitive. It's really dragging me down. Is it something about these
middle ages...neither of them was like this before they turned 8! Any
suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks.
Carol from WI
<< Then there is the rest of the time which constitutes 75% or more of our
lives. What has been working for me is just being with them to keep them
moving in a constructive rather than destructive way. >>
Laura...
I wanted to respond to this, because I also have two boys of almost those
ages (8 and 11 in Nov.)
I find it so hard to keep them moving in constructive ways. Do you have any
tips? I always feel like I'm nagging at them and I hate it. It also does
NOTHING to reduce the tension that all of this creates around here.
The worst problem I seem to have with these two boys is that it seems like
they are always picking on each other or the other sibs...not so much
physically, but verbally. They always have to manipulate every situation or
boss each other or younger sibs around. They're also both very negative and
competitive. It's really dragging me down. Is it something about these
middle ages...neither of them was like this before they turned 8! Any
suggestions would be appreciated!
Thanks.
Carol from WI
Joel Hawthorne
Check out "Real Boys" by William Pollack. It might give you some help. it is a
great book.
Burkfamily@... wrote:
best wishes
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
great book.
Burkfamily@... wrote:
> From: Burkfamily@...--
>
> Laura wrote:
>
> << Then there is the rest of the time which constitutes 75% or more of our
> lives. What has been working for me is just being with them to keep them
> moving in a constructive rather than destructive way. >>
>
> Laura...
> I wanted to respond to this, because I also have two boys of almost those
> ages (8 and 11 in Nov.)
> I find it so hard to keep them moving in constructive ways. Do you have any
> tips? I always feel like I'm nagging at them and I hate it. It also does
> NOTHING to reduce the tension that all of this creates around here.
> The worst problem I seem to have with these two boys is that it seems like
> they are always picking on each other or the other sibs...not so much
> physically, but verbally. They always have to manipulate every situation or
> boss each other or younger sibs around. They're also both very negative and
> competitive. It's really dragging me down. Is it something about these
> middle ages...neither of them was like this before they turned 8! Any
> suggestions would be appreciated!
> Thanks.
> Carol from WI
>
> > Check it out!
> http://www.unschooling.com
best wishes
Joel
For a wonderful gift possibility and to support a great cause check out:
http://www.naturalchild.com/calendar_pictures.html
All children behave as well as they are treated. The Natural Child
Project http://naturalchild.com/home/
[email protected]
In a message dated 11/7/99 11:06:36 AM, Bonknit@... writes:
<< Sometimes I read to them while they draw. When I see that they are
getting tired of this activity I move to something else, take walks, even let
them watch some TV. I know this seems contrived >>
doesnt sound contrived to me.
erin
<< Sometimes I read to them while they draw. When I see that they are
getting tired of this activity I move to something else, take walks, even let
them watch some TV. I know this seems contrived >>
doesnt sound contrived to me.
erin
[email protected]
Joel wrote:
<< Check out "Real Boys" by William Pollack. It might give you some help.
it is a
great book.
She has 3 boys. It's on my list...but you probably know how long those "I
should read" lists tend to get! I'll move it up!
Carol from WI
<< Check out "Real Boys" by William Pollack. It might give you some help.
it is a
great book.
>>Thanks. My sister heard him speak last year and recommended his book too.
She has 3 boys. It's on my list...but you probably know how long those "I
should read" lists tend to get! I'll move it up!
Carol from WI