Swordplay, Weapons and Violence
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> So would it be ridiculous to give in and allow something I am so opposed to,Debi,
> if I impose the rule that if the weapons are ever used against each other
> or other children the toys will be immediately put on a shelf? This feels
> too much like a gift with strings. Am I being ridiculous here? Did any of
> you involved with SCA have similar feelings? I know weaponry is a really
> big part of the Middle ages. And can I still ban guns? Secondly, do I let
> them make do with odds and ends, or do I help them earn the money for the
> gorgeous plastic swords encrusted with fake jewels? I know the former
> would be really great for their imagination, but I also know that they
> would really prefer them to look authentic. (And where would I get such
> articles? Any suggestions? The toy store (we only have Toys R Us here)
> has nothing like that, just machine guns and fake hand grenades.) Debi
>
This is a difficult problem but with child led learning, it is good to let
them give swords a try. My son got his fascination at an early age from
reading the Redwall series. (Brian Jacques, wonderful books)
If they really want to learn swordplay, do the real thing. See if you can
find a fencing club near by and let them learn to fence with the safety and
control that is necessary for being a good athlete. Most clubs start kids
when they are 7.
Both my daughter and son fence. Go to USfencing.org and look at the left
hand column to "New To Fencing?" There you will find a map of the US and can
click on your state to find fencing clubs. Your kids are at the perfect age
to start. Sport fencing is not about wacking each other, it requires a lot of
strategy and thinking.
Beth
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debi watson
Really cool site -- the kids are intensely interested -- but I can't find a similar org.in Canada! :o( Rats! I hadn't even thought in terms of fencing -- gotta love this group and how they expand your horizons! Debi
control that is necessary for being a good athlete. Most clubs start kids
when they are 7.
Both my daughter and son fence. Go to USfencing.org and look at the left
hand column to "New To Fencing?" There you will find a map of the US and can
click on your state to find fencing clubs. Your kids are at the perfect age
to start. Sport fencing is not about wacking each other, it requires a lot of
strategy and thinking.
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>If they really want to learn swordplay, do the real thing. See if you canfind a fencing club near by and let them learn to fence with the safety and
control that is necessary for being a good athlete. Most clubs start kids
when they are 7.
Both my daughter and son fence. Go to USfencing.org and look at the left
hand column to "New To Fencing?" There you will find a map of the US and can
click on your state to find fencing clubs. Your kids are at the perfect age
to start. Sport fencing is not about wacking each other, it requires a lot of
strategy and thinking.
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/28/02 12:21:06 PM, ComaCrone@... writes:
<< > So would it be ridiculous to give in and allow something I am so opposed
to,
the middle maybe I'll say something someone else has already said. And that
can be valuable.
I'll get back to that question in a minute.
<<Am I being ridiculous here? Did any of
My sons are 16 and 13 and have always had "boffers," always been with and
around sword-fighting guys. They've attended SCA wars, and the older one has
done some rapier fighting, and is working (sometimes, slowly) on armor now
that he's old enough for "heavy weapons."
Both my boys are peaceloving, kind to children, gentle with kittens and bugs,
etc. Neither has ever asked for a real sword. Marty owns three knives.
It's his "knife collection." We got him a Leatherman for Christmas, and he
takes good care of it, but very rarely takes it anywhere. Even when I say
"Marty, take your leatherman" when we're going camping or to a birthday party
where gift-opening might be a problem, he forgets.
<<And can I still ban guns? >>
You can, but it doesn't help anything. It hurts some things.
<<Secondly, do I let
the plastic sword that came with a "NeNardo costume" when he was three. A
Ninja Turtle costume with a VERY cool sword with the turtles logo embossed in
the blade. I wish we still had it, or another like it. It was played with
nearly daily for years, by him or Marty.
<<<< > So would it be ridiculous to give in and allow something I am so
opposed to,
then maybe. But not for a really long time.
The trust between parent and child is worth way more than any rules about toy
weapons, and when moms are calling all the rules and making dire predictions
and shaming their kids, pretty much those predictions turn out NOT to be
true, and so the child's trust in the mother erodes a little. And the peace
of the house is disturbed more by arguments and begging and the negativity of
all that than the "danger" one plastic sword, or water gun, or cap pistol
would bring to a house where the mother is willing to listen to her son and
the son is then more likely to want to listen to his mother.
That's what I think.
I could be wrong.
Sandra
<< > So would it be ridiculous to give in and allow something I am so opposed
to,
> if I impose the rule that if the weapons are ever used against each otherI should probably go back to the beginning of swords, but if I start here in
> or other children the toys will be immediately put on a shelf? >>
the middle maybe I'll say something someone else has already said. And that
can be valuable.
I'll get back to that question in a minute.
<<Am I being ridiculous here? Did any of
> you involved with SCA have similar feelings? I know weaponry is a reallyI've been in the SCA for 26 years. REALLY in the SCA.
> big part of the Middle ages. >>
My sons are 16 and 13 and have always had "boffers," always been with and
around sword-fighting guys. They've attended SCA wars, and the older one has
done some rapier fighting, and is working (sometimes, slowly) on armor now
that he's old enough for "heavy weapons."
Both my boys are peaceloving, kind to children, gentle with kittens and bugs,
etc. Neither has ever asked for a real sword. Marty owns three knives.
It's his "knife collection." We got him a Leatherman for Christmas, and he
takes good care of it, but very rarely takes it anywhere. Even when I say
"Marty, take your leatherman" when we're going camping or to a birthday party
where gift-opening might be a problem, he forgets.
<<And can I still ban guns? >>
You can, but it doesn't help anything. It hurts some things.
<<Secondly, do I let
> them make do with odds and ends, or do I help them earn the money for theI bought my kids fake swords. One of Kirbys favorite toys of all time was
> gorgeous plastic swords encrusted with fake jewels? >>
the plastic sword that came with a "NeNardo costume" when he was three. A
Ninja Turtle costume with a VERY cool sword with the turtles logo embossed in
the blade. I wish we still had it, or another like it. It was played with
nearly daily for years, by him or Marty.
<<<< > So would it be ridiculous to give in and allow something I am so
opposed to,
> if I impose the rule that if the weapons are ever used against each otherI would talk to them instead of putting toys up. If talking doesn't work,
> or other children the toys will be immediately put on a shelf? >>>>
then maybe. But not for a really long time.
The trust between parent and child is worth way more than any rules about toy
weapons, and when moms are calling all the rules and making dire predictions
and shaming their kids, pretty much those predictions turn out NOT to be
true, and so the child's trust in the mother erodes a little. And the peace
of the house is disturbed more by arguments and begging and the negativity of
all that than the "danger" one plastic sword, or water gun, or cap pistol
would bring to a house where the mother is willing to listen to her son and
the son is then more likely to want to listen to his mother.
That's what I think.
I could be wrong.
Sandra
debi watson
<<And can I still ban guns? >>
You can, but it doesn't help anything. It hurts some things.
The silly thing is, they have never even asked to play guns. I don't know why I am even worried, except that so much of what I have done in the past has been aimed at preventing problems. Unschooling is so much about fully living in the here and now ... it's still hard to make that shift in some areas. I feel like I am giving up all vestiges of parental control, and then I think more about it and realize I *have* no parental control. Their choices are their own. I am sure I could get them to comply, but at what cost?
true, and so the child's trust in the mother erodes a little. And the peace of the house is disturbed more by arguments and begging and the negativity of all that than the "danger" one plastic sword, or water gun, or cap pistol would bring to a house where the mother is willing to listen to her son and the son is then more likely to want to listen to his mother.
Once it is put like that, I find it simple to agree. I wish I already had those thoughts internalized, but when I measure how much I have already grown I know I am at least on the right track, and at 35 with my oldest only 9 1/2, I still have time. Thank goodness! Debi
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You can, but it doesn't help anything. It hurts some things.
The silly thing is, they have never even asked to play guns. I don't know why I am even worried, except that so much of what I have done in the past has been aimed at preventing problems. Unschooling is so much about fully living in the here and now ... it's still hard to make that shift in some areas. I feel like I am giving up all vestiges of parental control, and then I think more about it and realize I *have* no parental control. Their choices are their own. I am sure I could get them to comply, but at what cost?
>>I would talk to them instead of putting toys up. If talking doesn't work,then maybe. But not for a really long time. The trust between parent and child is worth way more than any rules about toy weapons, and when moms are calling all the rules and making dire predictions and shaming their kids, pretty much those predictions turn out NOT to be
true, and so the child's trust in the mother erodes a little. And the peace of the house is disturbed more by arguments and begging and the negativity of all that than the "danger" one plastic sword, or water gun, or cap pistol would bring to a house where the mother is willing to listen to her son and the son is then more likely to want to listen to his mother.
Once it is put like that, I find it simple to agree. I wish I already had those thoughts internalized, but when I measure how much I have already grown I know I am at least on the right track, and at 35 with my oldest only 9 1/2, I still have time. Thank goodness! Debi
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/28/02 2:14:02 PM, debiwatson@... writes:
<< and at 35 with my oldest only 9 1/2, I still have time >>
Debi, You're LUCKY!!!
I was an old mom. Now that my kids are older I'm an even older mom.
Sometimes I wish I were only twenty-some years older than they are instead of
as old as some of their friends' grandmothers.
I'm 49, and I don't do math in my head easily, but I was 33 (barely turned)
when Kirby was born. Thirty five for Marty and thirty eight for Holly, I
think.
When I was a kid I hung around with kids who had older parents than mine, and
I wasn't even a "preemie, in the sense that my mom had been 22 or 23 when I
was born. They used to say "Your parents are SO YOUNG!"
Sandra
<< and at 35 with my oldest only 9 1/2, I still have time >>
Debi, You're LUCKY!!!
I was an old mom. Now that my kids are older I'm an even older mom.
Sometimes I wish I were only twenty-some years older than they are instead of
as old as some of their friends' grandmothers.
I'm 49, and I don't do math in my head easily, but I was 33 (barely turned)
when Kirby was born. Thirty five for Marty and thirty eight for Holly, I
think.
When I was a kid I hung around with kids who had older parents than mine, and
I wasn't even a "preemie, in the sense that my mom had been 22 or 23 when I
was born. They used to say "Your parents are SO YOUNG!"
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/29/02 7:03:44 AM, bap58@... writes:
<< I think that it's a fashion been 40 something and pregnant. >>
That's all well and good when you're 40 something and pregnant, but even *I*
could do the math to figure out it results in being nearly 60 with teenagers.
There are advantages both ways. I have a house, and patience, and more ideas
than I had when I was younger. But I don't have the energy to run and jump
and climb as I would have had if we were closer in age.
Sandra
<< I think that it's a fashion been 40 something and pregnant. >>
That's all well and good when you're 40 something and pregnant, but even *I*
could do the math to figure out it results in being nearly 60 with teenagers.
There are advantages both ways. I have a house, and patience, and more ideas
than I had when I was younger. But I don't have the energy to run and jump
and climb as I would have had if we were closer in age.
Sandra
Betty Polanco
Hi Sandra,
I'm 45 and have 6.5 and 4 y/o sons! I met a women when I was pregnant of the little one and she was 44, she was feeling so ashamed to be pregnant at that age until she met a 48 pregnant woman! I think that it's a fashion been 40 something and pregnant.
Betty
I'm 45 and have 6.5 and 4 y/o sons! I met a women when I was pregnant of the little one and she was 44, she was feeling so ashamed to be pregnant at that age until she met a 48 pregnant woman! I think that it's a fashion been 40 something and pregnant.
Betty
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2002 7:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Swordplay, Weapons and Violence
In a message dated 8/28/02 2:14:02 PM, debiwatson@... writes:
<< and at 35 with my oldest only 9 1/2, I still have time >>
Debi, You're LUCKY!!!
I was an old mom. Now that my kids are older I'm an even older mom.
Sometimes I wish I were only twenty-some years older than they are instead of
as old as some of their friends' grandmothers.
I'm 49, and I don't do math in my head easily, but I was 33 (barely turned)
when Kirby was born. Thirty five for Marty and thirty eight for Holly, I
think.
When I was a kid I hung around with kids who had older parents than mine, and
I wasn't even a "preemie, in the sense that my mom had been 22 or 23 when I
was born. They used to say "Your parents are SO YOUNG!"
Sandra
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debi watson
People used to say that to me about my parents ... my mom was 20 and my dad 22 when I was born. If it consoles you any, the whole time I tried school-at-home I FELT like I was 50! Now that we have come to our senses, I am rapidly feeling younger....I've started to become my kids' playmate instead of some curmudgeonly grandmother..... Debi
was born. They used to say "Your parents are SO YOUNG!"
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>>When I was a kid I hung around with kids who had older parents than mine, andI wasn't even a "preemie, in the sense that my mom had been 22 or 23 when I
was born. They used to say "Your parents are SO YOUNG!"
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>This is what I found with Lars, who arrived when the others were 8, 9, and
>That's all well and good when you're 40 something and pregnant, but even *I*
>could do the math to figure out it results in being nearly 60 with teenagers.
>
>There are advantages both ways. I have a house, and patience, and more ideas
>than I had when I was younger. But I don't have the energy to run and jump
>and climb as I would have had if we were closer in age.
12. And then I got fibromyalgia and ended up with even *less* energy . . .
sigh. He's been parented a fair bit differently than the others, some ways
worse, some ways better.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/29/02 7:36:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
twentieth birthday and Jack just a little over six months after my
twenty-second birthday. Sometimes I think something like Homer Simpson and
his "18 And You're OUT the DOOR! WhOO!" I just get so excited at the idea
that by the time I am 40 both my kids will be 18 or over. Most of the time I
want them to stay with me forever, but sometimes that emotional immaturity
creeps in. I often wonder if I would have been a more patient parent if I had
waited till I was in my late 20's or even into my 30's to have kids.
Obviously I wouldn't have the ones I have now. <g> My Mom says I am so laid
back it amazes her. She says she could have never just sent us kids out to
play, or let us paint at the table without her being right there. It really
amazes me what my Mom thinks is being laid back, and what I think is being
laid back. I don't think kids need me to direct something they already know
how to do. (like play) But I can get a big fit of the screaming mimis when I
suddenly decide the house needs to be cleaned up and everywhere I look I see
kids, toys, books, magazines, paper, glue, paint, an assorted collection of
outside nature inside, the dog, games, videos, food, more kids... My Mom,
could deal with situations like that. Actually, situations like that didn't
happen too often, and if they did, she probably had a sweet smile on her face
and a wooden spoon behind her back, so maybe my screaming isn't quite as bad.
But I think maybe it is. My Mom thinks I am laid back, I think I need to be
more laid back, and sometimes I think that would have happened if I had
waited to have kids. Other times, I think I would have been more like my Mom.
Would I have been a better Mom if I had waited? Maybe, but then I wouldn't
have the kids I have now! :o)
~Nancy
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SandraDodd@... writes:
> Debi, You're LUCKY!!!I don't know about this. Moly was born just two months and ten days after my
>
> I was an old mom. Now that my kids are older I'm an even older mom.
> Sometimes I wish I were only twenty-some years older than they are instead
> of
> as old as some of their friends' grandmothers.
>
>
twentieth birthday and Jack just a little over six months after my
twenty-second birthday. Sometimes I think something like Homer Simpson and
his "18 And You're OUT the DOOR! WhOO!" I just get so excited at the idea
that by the time I am 40 both my kids will be 18 or over. Most of the time I
want them to stay with me forever, but sometimes that emotional immaturity
creeps in. I often wonder if I would have been a more patient parent if I had
waited till I was in my late 20's or even into my 30's to have kids.
Obviously I wouldn't have the ones I have now. <g> My Mom says I am so laid
back it amazes her. She says she could have never just sent us kids out to
play, or let us paint at the table without her being right there. It really
amazes me what my Mom thinks is being laid back, and what I think is being
laid back. I don't think kids need me to direct something they already know
how to do. (like play) But I can get a big fit of the screaming mimis when I
suddenly decide the house needs to be cleaned up and everywhere I look I see
kids, toys, books, magazines, paper, glue, paint, an assorted collection of
outside nature inside, the dog, games, videos, food, more kids... My Mom,
could deal with situations like that. Actually, situations like that didn't
happen too often, and if they did, she probably had a sweet smile on her face
and a wooden spoon behind her back, so maybe my screaming isn't quite as bad.
But I think maybe it is. My Mom thinks I am laid back, I think I need to be
more laid back, and sometimes I think that would have happened if I had
waited to have kids. Other times, I think I would have been more like my Mom.
Would I have been a better Mom if I had waited? Maybe, but then I wouldn't
have the kids I have now! :o)
~Nancy
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