general
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/28/02 8:14:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< To be here comfortably you
must be an unschooler from birth and have had no other opinion ever
about life or (gasp)schooling. ~~forgive the dripping sarcasm~ >>
The dripping sarcasm is very NOT helpful to the list returning to it's usual
flow of helpful information. There will always be a questioning of thoughts
and practices because we are all here to point towards unschooling and all
that it encompasses.
People not wanting another persons opinon shouldn't ask for it.
I am not an unschooler from birth.
Are you implying that I can't be comfortable here.
Well let me tell you, I was not an unschooler at all when I started
homeschooling. I had read John Holt and it encouraged me to homeschool, but I
didn't quite "get it".
After doing some damage to my older son I realized it and tried to change. We
evolved into "eclectic/relaxed" type homeschoolers. Doing unit studies and
trying to let my kids lead the way a LOT more.
It wasn't until I found unschooling.com a few years ago , that my ideas and
beliefs were able to be really questioned (uncomfortably so) and I found a
lack within those beliefs.
Thankfully, Sandra, Joyce, Pam and other people here were willing to ask
those difficult, soul piercing questions that enabled me to shed some old
baggage.
We are unschoolers now, have been for a couple years.
As Mary says, "Life is Good"......
But I needed that questioning, that informations from "old timers" with older
kids that this could and would work. I needed to trust my children more fully.
If a person isn't willing to questions their beliefs as parents, they aren't
going to evolve into better parent's. It's that simple.
Questioning, seeking and being willing to change is necessary. This is a
great place to do that in an unschooling context.
I really wish any newbies (or anyone else) that doesn't think the list will
help them, will either read for a while and get the true feel for it, or go
to another list.
Maybe that seems rude. But it gets tiresome to see ladies that have changed
your life and brought incredible joy into your family with their influence,
attacked at every turn.
Someone else was saying how much they loved Ned.
Why bring that up here?
Go to a Ned list, he's out there ya know.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< To be here comfortably you
must be an unschooler from birth and have had no other opinion ever
about life or (gasp)schooling. ~~forgive the dripping sarcasm~ >>
The dripping sarcasm is very NOT helpful to the list returning to it's usual
flow of helpful information. There will always be a questioning of thoughts
and practices because we are all here to point towards unschooling and all
that it encompasses.
People not wanting another persons opinon shouldn't ask for it.
I am not an unschooler from birth.
Are you implying that I can't be comfortable here.
Well let me tell you, I was not an unschooler at all when I started
homeschooling. I had read John Holt and it encouraged me to homeschool, but I
didn't quite "get it".
After doing some damage to my older son I realized it and tried to change. We
evolved into "eclectic/relaxed" type homeschoolers. Doing unit studies and
trying to let my kids lead the way a LOT more.
It wasn't until I found unschooling.com a few years ago , that my ideas and
beliefs were able to be really questioned (uncomfortably so) and I found a
lack within those beliefs.
Thankfully, Sandra, Joyce, Pam and other people here were willing to ask
those difficult, soul piercing questions that enabled me to shed some old
baggage.
We are unschoolers now, have been for a couple years.
As Mary says, "Life is Good"......
But I needed that questioning, that informations from "old timers" with older
kids that this could and would work. I needed to trust my children more fully.
If a person isn't willing to questions their beliefs as parents, they aren't
going to evolve into better parent's. It's that simple.
Questioning, seeking and being willing to change is necessary. This is a
great place to do that in an unschooling context.
I really wish any newbies (or anyone else) that doesn't think the list will
help them, will either read for a while and get the true feel for it, or go
to another list.
Maybe that seems rude. But it gets tiresome to see ladies that have changed
your life and brought incredible joy into your family with their influence,
attacked at every turn.
Someone else was saying how much they loved Ned.
Why bring that up here?
Go to a Ned list, he's out there ya know.
Ren
Kelli Traaseth
Ditto and its from a newbie! Kelli
starsuncloud@... wrote:In a message dated 8/28/02 8:14:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< To be here comfortably you
must be an unschooler from birth and have had no other opinion ever
about life or (gasp)schooling. ~~forgive the dripping sarcasm~ >>
The dripping sarcasm is very NOT helpful to the list returning to it's usual
flow of helpful information. There will always be a questioning of thoughts
and practices because we are all here to point towards unschooling and all
that it encompasses.
People not wanting another persons opinon shouldn't ask for it.
I am not an unschooler from birth.
Are you implying that I can't be comfortable here.
Well let me tell you, I was not an unschooler at all when I started
homeschooling. I had read John Holt and it encouraged me to homeschool, but I
didn't quite "get it".
After doing some damage to my older son I realized it and tried to change. We
evolved into "eclectic/relaxed" type homeschoolers. Doing unit studies and
trying to let my kids lead the way a LOT more.
It wasn't until I found unschooling.com a few years ago , that my ideas and
beliefs were able to be really questioned (uncomfortably so) and I found a
lack within those beliefs.
Thankfully, Sandra, Joyce, Pam and other people here were willing to ask
those difficult, soul piercing questions that enabled me to shed some old
baggage.
We are unschoolers now, have been for a couple years.
As Mary says, "Life is Good"......
But I needed that questioning, that informations from "old timers" with older
kids that this could and would work. I needed to trust my children more fully.
If a person isn't willing to questions their beliefs as parents, they aren't
going to evolve into better parent's. It's that simple.
Questioning, seeking and being willing to change is necessary. This is a
great place to do that in an unschooling context.
I really wish any newbies (or anyone else) that doesn't think the list will
help them, will either read for a while and get the true feel for it, or go
to another list.
Maybe that seems rude. But it gets tiresome to see ladies that have changed
your life and brought incredible joy into your family with their influence,
attacked at every turn.
Someone else was saying how much they loved Ned.
Why bring that up here?
Go to a Ned list, he's out there ya know.
Ren
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... wrote:In a message dated 8/28/02 8:14:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< To be here comfortably you
must be an unschooler from birth and have had no other opinion ever
about life or (gasp)schooling. ~~forgive the dripping sarcasm~ >>
The dripping sarcasm is very NOT helpful to the list returning to it's usual
flow of helpful information. There will always be a questioning of thoughts
and practices because we are all here to point towards unschooling and all
that it encompasses.
People not wanting another persons opinon shouldn't ask for it.
I am not an unschooler from birth.
Are you implying that I can't be comfortable here.
Well let me tell you, I was not an unschooler at all when I started
homeschooling. I had read John Holt and it encouraged me to homeschool, but I
didn't quite "get it".
After doing some damage to my older son I realized it and tried to change. We
evolved into "eclectic/relaxed" type homeschoolers. Doing unit studies and
trying to let my kids lead the way a LOT more.
It wasn't until I found unschooling.com a few years ago , that my ideas and
beliefs were able to be really questioned (uncomfortably so) and I found a
lack within those beliefs.
Thankfully, Sandra, Joyce, Pam and other people here were willing to ask
those difficult, soul piercing questions that enabled me to shed some old
baggage.
We are unschoolers now, have been for a couple years.
As Mary says, "Life is Good"......
But I needed that questioning, that informations from "old timers" with older
kids that this could and would work. I needed to trust my children more fully.
If a person isn't willing to questions their beliefs as parents, they aren't
going to evolve into better parent's. It's that simple.
Questioning, seeking and being willing to change is necessary. This is a
great place to do that in an unschooling context.
I really wish any newbies (or anyone else) that doesn't think the list will
help them, will either read for a while and get the true feel for it, or go
to another list.
Maybe that seems rude. But it gets tiresome to see ladies that have changed
your life and brought incredible joy into your family with their influence,
attacked at every turn.
Someone else was saying how much they loved Ned.
Why bring that up here?
Go to a Ned list, he's out there ya know.
Ren
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/28/02 4:41:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
silence 'soul piercing questions" that they don't like. Sounds like a
manipulation of souls.
Sherry
(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
insecure or evil people)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kellitraas@... writes:
> Thankfully, Sandra, Joyce, Pam and other people here were willing to askAnd unfortunately those same people have waged a successful campaign to
> those difficult, soul piercing questions that enabled me to shed some old
> baggage.
>
silence 'soul piercing questions" that they don't like. Sounds like a
manipulation of souls.
Sherry
(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
insecure or evil people)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 8/29/02 12:43 AM, FoxgloveStudio@... at FoxgloveStudio@... wrote:
helping children learn?
What's your definition of silence? Ned hasn't been gagged. He's just been
asked to use a room for his speeches other than this one. People are free to
join as many lists as Ned is on. How is asking him to use a different list
hindering people from hearing what he has to say?
Now, had Ned presented cogent arguments to challenge what unschoolers know
to be true about how children learn and could effectively show how his
evidence proved that unschoolers experience with their own children could
not be extrapolated to all children in similar environments, then banning
him would be censorship because that's the topic we're here to discuss.
But banning an avalanche of political opinions that are only peripherally
related to unschooling is just list management.
insecure or evil? What keeps drawing you back?
Joyce
> And unfortunately those same people have waged a successful campaign toWhat were the soul piercing questions Ned asked about unschooling and
> silence 'soul piercing questions" that they don't like.
helping children learn?
What's your definition of silence? Ned hasn't been gagged. He's just been
asked to use a room for his speeches other than this one. People are free to
join as many lists as Ned is on. How is asking him to use a different list
hindering people from hearing what he has to say?
Now, had Ned presented cogent arguments to challenge what unschoolers know
to be true about how children learn and could effectively show how his
evidence proved that unschoolers experience with their own children could
not be extrapolated to all children in similar environments, then banning
him would be censorship because that's the topic we're here to discuss.
But banning an avalanche of political opinions that are only peripherally
related to unschooling is just list management.
> (who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of eitherThen why would you want to continue associating with people you feel are
> insecure or evil people)
insecure or evil? What keeps drawing you back?
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/29/02 1:32:02 AM, FoxgloveStudio@... writes:
<< Sherry
(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
insecure or evil people) >>
Sherry,
If you were having a party at your house and someone was not acting as you
wanted him to, and you asked, and he got belligerant, and your guests were
complaining and people were leaving the party, would you not feel the DUTY to
get him to leave?
And if you had one party guest saying "Lighten up, let him be drunk and
disorderly, your furniture isn't going to be destroyed, do you not believe in
freedom of expression?" how would you feel?
This list isn't the free world in its entirety. It's not the United States
of America. It's not All of Unschooling.
It's a yahoolist associated with an online forum sponsored by Home Education
Magazine.
It's Helen's party, held in a house she pays money for, to some extent (not
the yahoo list, but the forum itself, the software for that, and related
matters). It's part of the business in which her family is engaged, Home
Education Magazine.
So if you wouldn't let someone totally ignore you in your own home, would you
let them totally ignore you in a place of business you owned or were
responsible for?
People have rights, and people CAN choose their own input and activities but
they don't get to decide on who else's "property" they can exercise their
rights.
Sandra
<< Sherry
(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
insecure or evil people) >>
Sherry,
If you were having a party at your house and someone was not acting as you
wanted him to, and you asked, and he got belligerant, and your guests were
complaining and people were leaving the party, would you not feel the DUTY to
get him to leave?
And if you had one party guest saying "Lighten up, let him be drunk and
disorderly, your furniture isn't going to be destroyed, do you not believe in
freedom of expression?" how would you feel?
This list isn't the free world in its entirety. It's not the United States
of America. It's not All of Unschooling.
It's a yahoolist associated with an online forum sponsored by Home Education
Magazine.
It's Helen's party, held in a house she pays money for, to some extent (not
the yahoo list, but the forum itself, the software for that, and related
matters). It's part of the business in which her family is engaged, Home
Education Magazine.
So if you wouldn't let someone totally ignore you in your own home, would you
let them totally ignore you in a place of business you owned or were
responsible for?
People have rights, and people CAN choose their own input and activities but
they don't get to decide on who else's "property" they can exercise their
rights.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/29/02 6:25:04 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< He's just been
asked to use a room for his speeches other than this one. People are free to
join as many lists as Ned is on. >>
I hope some people did sign up for the new political discussion list, Joyce.
Sandra
<< He's just been
asked to use a room for his speeches other than this one. People are free to
join as many lists as Ned is on. >>
I hope some people did sign up for the new political discussion list, Joyce.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/29/02 7:51:28 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
And unfortunately those same people have waged a successful campaign to
silence 'soul piercing questions" that they don't like. Sounds like a
manipulation of souls.
Why is this continuing? Obviously you love Ned, he can be found elsewhere on
the internet. There is no need to harass people here over your obvious
dissent over the list owners decision.
No one has been manipulated, no one has been censored, it sounds like you
don't want to listen very well.
It has been explained and explained ad nauseum why Ned was banished. He
refused to follow the intent of the list, pure and simple.
Could you please let it go and join a list where Ned can speak freely about
his political views? This list is not intended for that purpose, and if you'd
let it, we could get back to the bubbly, joyful, interesting unschooling
discussions.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<<
And unfortunately those same people have waged a successful campaign to
silence 'soul piercing questions" that they don't like. Sounds like a
manipulation of souls.
>>Sherry,
Why is this continuing? Obviously you love Ned, he can be found elsewhere on
the internet. There is no need to harass people here over your obvious
dissent over the list owners decision.
No one has been manipulated, no one has been censored, it sounds like you
don't want to listen very well.
It has been explained and explained ad nauseum why Ned was banished. He
refused to follow the intent of the list, pure and simple.
Could you please let it go and join a list where Ned can speak freely about
his political views? This list is not intended for that purpose, and if you'd
let it, we could get back to the bubbly, joyful, interesting unschooling
discussions.
Ren
[email protected]
Sherry
(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
insecure or evil people)
Sherry,
I'm not sure that you understand that it was not Ned's opinions that people
were objecting to, it was the way he was attempting to take over the list
and make it what he thought it should be rather than what it is.
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
insecure or evil people)
Sherry,
I'm not sure that you understand that it was not Ned's opinions that people
were objecting to, it was the way he was attempting to take over the list
and make it what he thought it should be rather than what it is.
~Elissa Cleaveland
An unlesson'd girl, unschool'd, unpractic'd;
Happy in this, she is not so old
But she may learn.
W.S. The Merchant of Venice III, ii, 160
Kelli Traaseth
Sorry Sherry but I think you are misquoting me, I didn't say that. Kelli
FoxgloveStudio@... wrote:In a message dated 8/28/02 4:41:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
silence 'soul piercing questions" that they don't like. Sounds like a
manipulation of souls.
Sherry
(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
insecure or evil people)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
FoxgloveStudio@... wrote:In a message dated 8/28/02 4:41:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
> Thankfully, Sandra, Joyce, Pam and other people here were willing to askAnd unfortunately those same people have waged a successful campaign to
> those difficult, soul piercing questions that enabled me to shed some old
> baggage.
>
silence 'soul piercing questions" that they don't like. Sounds like a
manipulation of souls.
Sherry
(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
insecure or evil people)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 8/29/02 9:47 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
politics. He wanted *this* place.
Here's the info again:
[email protected]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Politics_and_Unschooling/
Someone might want to send an invite to Ned.
Joyce
> I hope some people did sign up for the new political discussion list, Joyce.Not yet. Which perhaps suggests that Ned didn't want a place to discuss
politics. He wanted *this* place.
Here's the info again:
[email protected]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Politics_and_Unschooling/
Someone might want to send an invite to Ned.
Joyce
Tia Leschke
>Would you think it was ok to let some religious fanatic (of whatever
>And unfortunately those same people have waged a successful campaign to
>silence 'soul piercing questions" that they don't like. Sounds like a
>manipulation of souls.
persuasion) post "soul piercing question" after "soul piercing question"
after "soul piercing question" and turn every single question or post into
yet another "soul piercing question"? Aren't there other places where
that's appropriate? We do get a few soul piercing religious questions here
and there, and that's fine. But I sure wouldn't like it if one person was
doing almost nothing but, and doing it constantly. And that's what Ned's
posts were feeling like to me (and many others).
>SherryCensorship would be the attempt to shut Ned up completely. No one has done
>(who believes that censorship of dissenting opinion is a tool of either
>insecure or evil people)
that. He's just been directed elsewhere, with lots of directions for
others to follow if they wish to hear what he has to say.
Tia
"Unschool: Live your life as if there were no such thing as school." Ned Vare
*********************************************************
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island