Re: 2288 jumping on posters
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
on 8/26/02 9:28 AM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
Mary from IA writes:
As you might expect, your post was most welcome for me. I agree that a lot
of what gets posted here seems like therapy ("joy" -- feel good about
yourself) when what seems important to me gets dissed and shouted down.
While I have just been called "schoolish," for asking a question, we have a
few schoolmarms always on our tails here, as you've noticed. Some of them
seem content to complain about me instead of contribute something of their
own.
I like the saying, "If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything," so
when I talk about the public schools, it is to tell people the thousand ways
that those places are damaging for children and a fraud perpetrated upon all
citizens. I also like to talk about the wonders of letting kids educate
themselves. The battle comes because we keep having to beg for permission to
let them do that. I am, as you can tell, outraged by that.
Often when people sing the praises of homeschooling, we hear from school
supporters that the schools are trying to do the same things... "for the
children." It is one of my purposes to expose that as a lie. It might be
true if the schools were run by the parents and the teachers (as private
schools are), but they're not, they're run by the state depts of ed. and
they get their orders from politicians and the teachers' unions. Public
schools, as you know, have agendas for children that are entirely different
from those of parents.
My recent posts here have had the purpose of trying to find out whether the
list is supposed to offer merely pablum to timid newbies or real food for
more experienced people. I agree with you that there is room for both, and
that lately a great deal of space has been devoted to eliminating the real
food in favor of leaving the thin gruel. I believe it is mostly an insult to
the intelligence of this list.
I'm glad to know you're here. Just like getting phone calls and letters
after TV programs...it's surprising how a little encouragement can make a
day.
NV
[email protected] wrote:
Mary from IA writes:
> Ned, DO you have an agenda when you talk about the public schoolMary (et al),
> system? Do you want our votes?
As you might expect, your post was most welcome for me. I agree that a lot
of what gets posted here seems like therapy ("joy" -- feel good about
yourself) when what seems important to me gets dissed and shouted down.
While I have just been called "schoolish," for asking a question, we have a
few schoolmarms always on our tails here, as you've noticed. Some of them
seem content to complain about me instead of contribute something of their
own.
I like the saying, "If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything," so
when I talk about the public schools, it is to tell people the thousand ways
that those places are damaging for children and a fraud perpetrated upon all
citizens. I also like to talk about the wonders of letting kids educate
themselves. The battle comes because we keep having to beg for permission to
let them do that. I am, as you can tell, outraged by that.
Often when people sing the praises of homeschooling, we hear from school
supporters that the schools are trying to do the same things... "for the
children." It is one of my purposes to expose that as a lie. It might be
true if the schools were run by the parents and the teachers (as private
schools are), but they're not, they're run by the state depts of ed. and
they get their orders from politicians and the teachers' unions. Public
schools, as you know, have agendas for children that are entirely different
from those of parents.
My recent posts here have had the purpose of trying to find out whether the
list is supposed to offer merely pablum to timid newbies or real food for
more experienced people. I agree with you that there is room for both, and
that lately a great deal of space has been devoted to eliminating the real
food in favor of leaving the thin gruel. I believe it is mostly an insult to
the intelligence of this list.
I'm glad to know you're here. Just like getting phone calls and letters
after TV programs...it's surprising how a little encouragement can make a
day.
NV
Fetteroll
on 8/27/02 2:40 AM, Luz Shosie and Ned Vare at nedvare@... wrote:
newbies" and those of us shoveling out the apparent pablum.
Moving from a schooled mindset to unschooling is hard brave work. It's what
this list *does* and it has done for 42,000 posts. You obviously have no
respect for the hours any of us have been putting in helping others, nor
respect for the people who are trying to cut the ties to school.
and searching for answers thin gruel.
There is room for a wide range of discussion, even about school and the harm
it does. There *isn't* room to go into *detail* about the politics of
schooling or government control. (We can point people to better forums for
that.) There *isn't* room for one person to seize control and turn it into a
soapbox for his personal agenda.
Joyce
> My recent posts here have had the purpose of trying to find out whether theYou've just insulted most of the people on this list Ned, both the "timid
> list is supposed to offer merely pablum to timid newbies or real food for
> more experienced people.
newbies" and those of us shoveling out the apparent pablum.
Moving from a schooled mindset to unschooling is hard brave work. It's what
this list *does* and it has done for 42,000 posts. You obviously have no
respect for the hours any of us have been putting in helping others, nor
respect for the people who are trying to cut the ties to school.
> I agree with you that there is room for both, andIt's an insult to the list members to call the sincere questions and answers
> that lately a great deal of space has been devoted to eliminating the real
> food in favor of leaving the thin gruel. I believe it is mostly an insult to
> the intelligence of this list.
and searching for answers thin gruel.
There is room for a wide range of discussion, even about school and the harm
it does. There *isn't* room to go into *detail* about the politics of
schooling or government control. (We can point people to better forums for
that.) There *isn't* room for one person to seize control and turn it into a
soapbox for his personal agenda.
Joyce
Tia Leschke
>Once again, incredibly rude. The people who are complaining the most about
>As you might expect, your post was most welcome for me. I agree that a lot
>of what gets posted here seems like therapy ("joy" -- feel good about
>yourself) when what seems important to me gets dissed and shouted down.
>While I have just been called "schoolish," for asking a question, we have a
>few schoolmarms always on our tails here, as you've noticed. Some of them
>seem content to complain about me instead of contribute something of their
>own.
your out-of-place diatribes are the very ones who have contributed the most
useful information to this list since I've been on it.
> I like the saying, "If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything," soSeems to me the place to do that would be school lists. You're preaching
>when I talk about the public schools, it is to tell people the thousand ways
>that those places are damaging for children and a fraud perpetrated upon all
>citizens. I also like to talk about the wonders of letting kids educate
>themselves. The battle comes because we keep having to beg for permission to
>let them do that. I am, as you can tell, outraged by that.
to the choir here, and a good portion of the choir is damned sick of
listening to your sermons. Why don't you take them where they might
actually do some good?
>My recent posts here have had the purpose of trying to find out whether theThe real food has been coming from Sandra, Joyce, both Pams, zenmomma, and
>list is supposed to offer merely pablum to timid newbies or real food for
>more experienced people. I agree with you that there is room for both, and
>that lately a great deal of space has been devoted to eliminating the real
>food in favor of leaving the thin gruel. I believe it is mostly an insult to
>the intelligence of this list.
a bunch of others . . .and occasionally from Ned when he takes his own
advice and lives his life as if there were no schools.
Tia
"Unschool: Live your life as if there were no such thing as school." Ned Vare
*********************************************************
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Betsy
**While I have just been called "schoolish," for asking a question, we
have a few schoolmarms always on our tails here, as you've noticed. Some
of them
seem content to complain about me instead of contribute something of their
own.**
This is a big, fat overgeneralizing lie. I demand that you take it back.
There are many long time posters on this list who do a great deal of
good. The fact that they don't admire you is neither here nor there.
Get over yourself! Your behavior on this list has been despicable.
Betsy
have a few schoolmarms always on our tails here, as you've noticed. Some
of them
seem content to complain about me instead of contribute something of their
own.**
This is a big, fat overgeneralizing lie. I demand that you take it back.
There are many long time posters on this list who do a great deal of
good. The fact that they don't admire you is neither here nor there.
Get over yourself! Your behavior on this list has been despicable.
Betsy