Re: Moving or staying in one place
[email protected]
Tuck wrote:
this. It's especially topical right now as we're thinking of moving out of
Berkeley, where my husband has spent his whole life and I've spent all of my
adult life, because my husband lost his job.
Just some random, and maybe a bit defensive, thoughts on this subject.
People who travel/move a lot get all the glory. They have lots of
interesting tales to tell and broad experiences. I'm always sure that my
sister-in-law, who hasn't stayed on one continent for more than about three
months for the last decade or so, thinks Eric and I are boring. And
sometimes I feel boring. But I'm also proud of the roots we've sunk. We
know this place. I walk in my neighborhood enough to recognize the cats,
know how this year's apricot crop compares to last, to know someone died in
that house not long ago. We know lots of people here and when we meet new
people, there's often a connection to someone else we know. That happens
worldwide too, I know, but it happens more locally and it happens more the
longer I've stayed in one place. We have a sense of history. We understand
a little about change. In unschooling terms, we've gone deeply into our
topic instead of doing Spain this month and Egypt next.
I've been thinking a lot about how the United States is almost entirely a
nation of immigrants and movers. Now I have complete support for those
who've come here to escape oppression, and I don't even begrudge anyone for
leaving the SF Bay Area because they can't afford the ridiculous housing
prices for their growing families. But it's interesting to think about the
fact that most of us are descended from people who were willing to up and
leave their families thousands of miles behind (and for most of U.S. history
that meant never seeing them again). What does that say about what our
"family values " really are? What messages are we giving our children when
we move away from extended family for a promotion or bigger house?
And what happens to our communities? When people move frequently, it's hard
to know, much less count on your neighbors. I know that there are other
factors - two parents working, school, long commutes, scheduled lives - that
play into this, but the sense we have that people may only be here short term
plays a role. It also seems to me that all this moving may not be so
adventurous after all because the more transient we've become as a society,
the more the same different places have become. There's hardly any local
flavor left anymore; it's all Gap, Starbucks, McDonalds and Walmart. We
can't just blame corporations for that. Lots and lots of us clearly want
that safety and sameness, that comfort that people used to get from staying
in one place and knowing generations from the same family.
We might still move (right now we're looking at Portland), but it's not going
to be easy for this stick-in-the-mud.
Berkeley is so awesome in the fall.
-Pam Tellew
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Lots of people I know stay in the same place all their lives. I don'tI just spent my entire walk around my beloved neighborhood thinking about
> understand it a bit.
this. It's especially topical right now as we're thinking of moving out of
Berkeley, where my husband has spent his whole life and I've spent all of my
adult life, because my husband lost his job.
Just some random, and maybe a bit defensive, thoughts on this subject.
People who travel/move a lot get all the glory. They have lots of
interesting tales to tell and broad experiences. I'm always sure that my
sister-in-law, who hasn't stayed on one continent for more than about three
months for the last decade or so, thinks Eric and I are boring. And
sometimes I feel boring. But I'm also proud of the roots we've sunk. We
know this place. I walk in my neighborhood enough to recognize the cats,
know how this year's apricot crop compares to last, to know someone died in
that house not long ago. We know lots of people here and when we meet new
people, there's often a connection to someone else we know. That happens
worldwide too, I know, but it happens more locally and it happens more the
longer I've stayed in one place. We have a sense of history. We understand
a little about change. In unschooling terms, we've gone deeply into our
topic instead of doing Spain this month and Egypt next.
I've been thinking a lot about how the United States is almost entirely a
nation of immigrants and movers. Now I have complete support for those
who've come here to escape oppression, and I don't even begrudge anyone for
leaving the SF Bay Area because they can't afford the ridiculous housing
prices for their growing families. But it's interesting to think about the
fact that most of us are descended from people who were willing to up and
leave their families thousands of miles behind (and for most of U.S. history
that meant never seeing them again). What does that say about what our
"family values " really are? What messages are we giving our children when
we move away from extended family for a promotion or bigger house?
And what happens to our communities? When people move frequently, it's hard
to know, much less count on your neighbors. I know that there are other
factors - two parents working, school, long commutes, scheduled lives - that
play into this, but the sense we have that people may only be here short term
plays a role. It also seems to me that all this moving may not be so
adventurous after all because the more transient we've become as a society,
the more the same different places have become. There's hardly any local
flavor left anymore; it's all Gap, Starbucks, McDonalds and Walmart. We
can't just blame corporations for that. Lots and lots of us clearly want
that safety and sameness, that comfort that people used to get from staying
in one place and knowing generations from the same family.
We might still move (right now we're looking at Portland), but it's not going
to be easy for this stick-in-the-mud.
Berkeley is so awesome in the fall.
-Pam Tellew
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>That it is. You've almost got me homesick. <g>
>I just spent my entire walk around my beloved neighborhood thinking about
>this. It's especially topical right now as we're thinking of moving out of
>Berkeley, where my husband has spent his whole life and I've spent all of my
>adult life, because my husband lost his job.
>Berkeley is so awesome in the fall.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/02 5:58:34 PM, warblwarbl@... writes:
<< We might still move (right now we're looking at Portland), but it's not
going
to be easy for this stick-in-the-mud. >>
Just today my husband threw away the file he had on Portland, when he had
gone up there for a job interview and stayed with Christine/Retromom. He
really liked the area. I had been afraid to move, so I said no. He still
thinks about how cool it might have been. I feel a little bad.
When I was in elementary, I didnt' like that I came new to 2nd grade from
another state AND changed schools after the first week.
From then on, though, it was Espanola Elementary, Espanola Jr. High, Espanola
High School. We moved from the rental house to the house my parents bought,
and didn't move. We had the same dog. We had the same neighbors (who are
still there).
When kids came to school, though, who had moved around, I always found a
chance to talk to them about where they'd been, what was different, what
their first impressions of my same-old town were, etc.
Almost every single one said they wished they could be like me and stay put
and have longterm friends and keep their rooms and people would know them and
they wouldn't be "new."
Maybe it's just six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Sandra
<< We might still move (right now we're looking at Portland), but it's not
going
to be easy for this stick-in-the-mud. >>
Just today my husband threw away the file he had on Portland, when he had
gone up there for a job interview and stayed with Christine/Retromom. He
really liked the area. I had been afraid to move, so I said no. He still
thinks about how cool it might have been. I feel a little bad.
When I was in elementary, I didnt' like that I came new to 2nd grade from
another state AND changed schools after the first week.
From then on, though, it was Espanola Elementary, Espanola Jr. High, Espanola
High School. We moved from the rental house to the house my parents bought,
and didn't move. We had the same dog. We had the same neighbors (who are
still there).
When kids came to school, though, who had moved around, I always found a
chance to talk to them about where they'd been, what was different, what
their first impressions of my same-old town were, etc.
Almost every single one said they wished they could be like me and stay put
and have longterm friends and keep their rooms and people would know them and
they wouldn't be "new."
Maybe it's just six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/24/02 4:57:50 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
warblwarbl@... writes:
school district during high school. Only 3 of our class (myself included)
were Arizona natives. Our class freshman year started out with 314
students...most of the difference were people who moved away.
Arizona has added roughly 2 million people in the past decade. Phoenix has
absolutely exploded. (Total AZ population I believe is 5 1/2 million people
-- so 2 million people is a lot.)
Why am I saying all this...I agree with you about community...I have lived in
this house for 2 yrs and I have never met a neighbor in this neighborhood.
Now on one side of us is a group home for delinquent teen boys so people are
always coming and going there. But I've never met anyone else on the street.
And I'm not the only SAHM...I've seen a lot of them and occasionally tried
to talk to them...but people move in and out with astonishing regularity.
One of the reasons we moved back to AZ from CO was because both our parents
were here and we thought our children should grow up around their
grandparents. But the lack of community really bothers us...we plan to move
away in 3 yrs. I'm always saying this place is a cross between Chicago and
LA. And they try to bring their plants and things here too...they want it to
be like home without the traffic or the weather or earthquakes. They forget
its a desert.
People here are always complaining about the lack of roots -- I would love to
live in a place where people stayed. I spent a year in MN and I LOVED it
there...I had friends who had lived in the same house their whole life...I
can't even begin to imagine what that is like :)
Tanya
mom to Andrew Jordan 4/1/00 and Eli Hunter 10/29/01
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within
himself
--Galileo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
warblwarbl@... writes:
> What does that say about what ourIn my high school graduating class 75% of the 138 graduates were new to the
> "family values " really are? What messages are we giving our children when
>
> we move away from extended family for a promotion or bigger house?
>
> And what happens to our communities? When people move frequently, it's
> hard
> to know, much less count on your neighbors. I know that there are other
> factors - two parents working, school, long commutes, scheduled lives -
> that
> play into this, but the sense we have that people may only be here short
> term
> plays a role. It also seems to me that all this moving may not be so
> adventurous after all because the more transient we've become as a society,
>
> the more the same different places have become.
school district during high school. Only 3 of our class (myself included)
were Arizona natives. Our class freshman year started out with 314
students...most of the difference were people who moved away.
Arizona has added roughly 2 million people in the past decade. Phoenix has
absolutely exploded. (Total AZ population I believe is 5 1/2 million people
-- so 2 million people is a lot.)
Why am I saying all this...I agree with you about community...I have lived in
this house for 2 yrs and I have never met a neighbor in this neighborhood.
Now on one side of us is a group home for delinquent teen boys so people are
always coming and going there. But I've never met anyone else on the street.
And I'm not the only SAHM...I've seen a lot of them and occasionally tried
to talk to them...but people move in and out with astonishing regularity.
One of the reasons we moved back to AZ from CO was because both our parents
were here and we thought our children should grow up around their
grandparents. But the lack of community really bothers us...we plan to move
away in 3 yrs. I'm always saying this place is a cross between Chicago and
LA. And they try to bring their plants and things here too...they want it to
be like home without the traffic or the weather or earthquakes. They forget
its a desert.
People here are always complaining about the lack of roots -- I would love to
live in a place where people stayed. I spent a year in MN and I LOVED it
there...I had friends who had lived in the same house their whole life...I
can't even begin to imagine what that is like :)
Tanya
mom to Andrew Jordan 4/1/00 and Eli Hunter 10/29/01
You cannot teach a man anything; you can only help him to find it within
himself
--Galileo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gerard Westenberg
> And what happens to our communities? When people move frequently, it'sI know and understand what you are saying here -but, my dh is in the military and we move a lot. I also moved a lot as a child. Yes, we have to make new friends a lot and try to keep in contact with old friends. Yes, we have difficulty knowing our neighbours. But we also get to see a lot of different communities and therefore to experience new things and new people and to question things. We have learned how to meet people and at the same time be strong within ourselves...Some communities in which we have lived have been kind of claustrophobic - apart from us, there was little transient population and there were unwritten codes and mores - "in our community we...". A bit creepy. When we have lived in more mobile communities, more cosmopolitan communities in a way, there has been more openness and friendlines...Just some observations...Leonie
> hard to know, much less count on your neighbors.>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill and Diane
I really envy people who can stay put. I've moved at least every two
years and as often as every three months throughout my adulthood, and
I'm really tired of it. Not only do people who stay put have more social
support (family, friends, they know how to access resources, etc.) but
also more money--equity in a house, etc.
We moved here (across the country) six months ago, and I'm hoping to
settle down and buy a house. I also hope my kids want to stay close to
us as they grow up, unlike my parents' kids--one in town, one in the
same region of the country, and two half a continent away.
Each is better than the other. The grass is green, and happy is the
person that likes their own grass.
:-) Diane
years and as often as every three months throughout my adulthood, and
I'm really tired of it. Not only do people who stay put have more social
support (family, friends, they know how to access resources, etc.) but
also more money--equity in a house, etc.
We moved here (across the country) six months ago, and I'm hoping to
settle down and buy a house. I also hope my kids want to stay close to
us as they grow up, unlike my parents' kids--one in town, one in the
same region of the country, and two half a continent away.
Each is better than the other. The grass is green, and happy is the
person that likes their own grass.
:-) Diane
>>Lots of people I know stay in the same place all their lives. I don't
>>understand it a bit.
>>
>>
>>I just spent my entire walk around my beloved neighborhood thinking about
>>this. It's especially topical right now as we're thinking of moving out of
>>Berkeley, where my husband has spent his whole life and I've spent all of my
>>adult life, because my husband lost his job.
>>
Dotchi Baker
I grew up a Navy Brat and I always felt like that. Now that I am 27 and settled in Tennessee, I want to move again. I miss the change (which is probably why I rearrange the house every month or two). I miss meeting new people and seeing new things, etc. I feel so lost here. I never had a sense of "home". Home was were the Navy sent you. This doesn't feel like "home" to me... but then too, I am not sure what "home" feels like either. I think it's like a lot of people I know. When they are in the country, they long for the city. (That's ME) and when they are in the city, they long for the country. I think, for myself, that it is I long for the experience. Once I have it, I want a new experience. I would be very content in an RV moving constantly from one place to another (and what an awesome unschooling experience that could be). I have to leave here once a year to really appreciate it. I have to get away from the monotony to be able to handle it. My husband is just the opposite though. He grew up not too far from here and hates moving. He doesn't want to move. I think my yearly trips are our compromise. Just tell me when and where and I'm packed and ready to go!
Dotchi
*********
Freedom of religion means freedom for all religions.
Dotchi
*********
Freedom of religion means freedom for all religions.
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2002 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Moving or staying in one place
Almost every single one said they wished they could be like me and stay put
and have longterm friends and keep their rooms and people would know them and
they wouldn't be "new."
Maybe it's just six of one and half a dozen of the other.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dotchi Baker
That's what bothers me around here. We've lived on this land since 1999. I have never lived in such a bizaare neighborhood... Well, area. We have maybe three neighbors we can see. I was told that when we moved here, we would have a wonderful support network, like I had in the Navy. But it is the exact opposite. I couldn't even get help after major abdominal surgery. And the gossip here is astronomical. I got pulled into one little gossip session and "he said she told his mom that you told so n so that such n thus told..." stuff. They jump to conclusions, are closed minded, narrow minded, ignorant, and coniving. I put my foot down and told them I would not put up with it. If they had a problem with something I did, say so and let us resolve it like mature adults. This isn't something I need to have my children around and I will happily burn bridges to keep them away from this idiocy. I think they got the message. I have two friends now.. and many aquaintances that are mad at me b/c I will not "play their game". I will not tolerate someone threatening harrassment charges on me simply b/c someone said something to someone else that I had NOTHING to do with. I don't see the kind of interaction here like I saw in the military housing. I don't see community at all. I see cliques and one-ups-manship. I see people so afraid of seeing their town change that they work hard to run people off who don't fit into their little mold. I think it's so sad b/c we could all learn so much from each other, but instead, they build a huge emotional wall to keep everyone away.
Dotchi
*********
Freedom of religion means freedom for all religions.
Dotchi
*********
Freedom of religion means freedom for all religions.
----- Original Message -----
...But the lack of community really bothers us...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
>>Just some random, and maybe a bit defensive, thoughts on this subject.Since I made the original comment about moving, I wanted to get back to this
>>People who travel/move a lot get all the glory. They have lots of
>>interesting tales to tell and broad experiences.>>
now that I've got a free moment. I hope no one here thought that I was
saying that randomly moving from place to place is the best/only/necessary
solution for any particular difficult situation. I think that the richness
of belonging to a community, nearby family and friends and a sense of place
for your family are all really good things.
What I was trying to say though, was that if I were faced with a situation
that I felt would potentially harm my family, I would look towards moving as
a possible solution. For my family, that was the situation when we realized
we could not maintain the family on one salary. One salary wouldn't cut it
in NY, where my dh and I grew up. We could live on one income in CO, though.
We moved. It was important *for us* to keep our kids out of daycare and home
with a parent.
I feel the same about unschooling now. It's extremely important that my kids
be free to continue unschooling. If the state I were in seemed so
restrictive as to limit my ability to help them do that, again I'd move. Our
moves have never been for promotions or bigger houses. In fact, several
times we've scaled down our house size when moving. Our moves have been
about "family values", though, I guess. The value we have placed on keeping
our family together. I'm sure your family values have kept you close to
extended family and community. It all depends on what each family needs and
what choices are available to them.
Life is good.
~Mary
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Helen Hegener
At 7:57 PM -0400 8/24/02, warblwarbl@... wrote:
of discussion here. I'm just catching up with this list after a
couple of days away from the keyboard - came back to almost 250 posts
here last night; I'll read and reply to what I can but I probably
won't get through them all. Anyway, I really like what you have to
say.
I'm one of those people who travel a LOT - since January I've spent
more time away from our home in Washington state than I've spent
there. In our case there's a lot of family dynamics at work: my
parents and siblings all live here, and three of our five grown kids
(and three grandchildren) are here now. We've lived here before, and
have many ties to this area, but we've also spent 20+ years in
Washington and have two grown kids, two grandkids, horses, boats, two
properties, and many ties there as well. It's a bit of a juggling act
- and we know travels agents in two states on a first name basis. <g>
You're right, I do have lots of interesting tales to tell, like
driving along near Dawson City with my daughter Jody on this last
trip north and being flagged down by an old man and his wife from
California who had two flat tires on their camper. We ended up
meeting two marvelous old gold miners who taught us how to patch the
tires right there alongside the road, then invited us all back to
their claim which pre-dated the Klondike gold rush and proudly showed
us their whole place, showed off the gold they'd sluiced so far this
season (a fruit jar half full!), and insisted we stay for delicious
dinner of caribou stew!
I love travelling, because I've travelled all my life: I've been over
the Alaska Highway over 200 times, have been all over the western US
and Canada and through most of the rest of the country, and I've been
to Europe twice. But even when I'm enjoying travelling the most, my
thoughts are often of home, and those I've left behind. Travelling
can be lonely, and frightening (like last winter on a drive out the
Highway - a moose stepped in front of my truck and I veered into a
snowbank 160 miles from the nearest town; two hours of daylight left
and temperatures dropping down to the -20's...). Travelling is
expensive, too, and I've often thought that for the price of a trip
to Alaska I could have remodeled my kitchen, or bought Mark a new
garden tractor.
hard to really relate to people who do. I mean, after you've
impressed people with your latest adventures - then what? The people
who live in one place go back to talking about what they know, who
did what last week and what so-and-so thought about it - and I'm
feeling very much the outsider who just dropped in for tea.
of being in one's place.
how we as a country got to where we are now, and the increasing ease
of travel over time plays a huge part in that.
effort to hold our whole extended family together over the years, and
I count myself lucky that I'm only dealing with two states, two
relatively smallish areas, and they're not spread out all over the
country. And I'm also lucky that there's been more and more
discussion this summer of moving everyone closer together again -
this is a close family, and those who've been able to travel to
Alaska find they really miss those who've settled down for good in
Washington state. So I think there's going to be a major shift
southward this fall.
overlay from city to city to city, and it's depressing. I remember
when much of the excitement of travelling was seeing how *different*
things looked in different places, but now it's homogenizing into the
same franchises and superstores everywhere.
and Hillsboro), and it's a really cool city - for a city. Lots of
beautiful areas around there, and an amazing variety of things to do.
We spent two weeks there last June and really had a great time!
coast, and I still remember the sounds and smells of fall in that
country. I've never found a place that even comes close to that
particular combination of redwoods, vineyards, oak trees, apples, and
just a hint of the sea!
Helen
>Just some random, and maybe a bit defensive, thoughts on this subject.Very interesting post, Pam, and I'm sure it's going to generate lots
>People who travel/move a lot get all the glory. They have lots of
>interesting tales to tell and broad experiences.
of discussion here. I'm just catching up with this list after a
couple of days away from the keyboard - came back to almost 250 posts
here last night; I'll read and reply to what I can but I probably
won't get through them all. Anyway, I really like what you have to
say.
I'm one of those people who travel a LOT - since January I've spent
more time away from our home in Washington state than I've spent
there. In our case there's a lot of family dynamics at work: my
parents and siblings all live here, and three of our five grown kids
(and three grandchildren) are here now. We've lived here before, and
have many ties to this area, but we've also spent 20+ years in
Washington and have two grown kids, two grandkids, horses, boats, two
properties, and many ties there as well. It's a bit of a juggling act
- and we know travels agents in two states on a first name basis. <g>
You're right, I do have lots of interesting tales to tell, like
driving along near Dawson City with my daughter Jody on this last
trip north and being flagged down by an old man and his wife from
California who had two flat tires on their camper. We ended up
meeting two marvelous old gold miners who taught us how to patch the
tires right there alongside the road, then invited us all back to
their claim which pre-dated the Klondike gold rush and proudly showed
us their whole place, showed off the gold they'd sluiced so far this
season (a fruit jar half full!), and insisted we stay for delicious
dinner of caribou stew!
I love travelling, because I've travelled all my life: I've been over
the Alaska Highway over 200 times, have been all over the western US
and Canada and through most of the rest of the country, and I've been
to Europe twice. But even when I'm enjoying travelling the most, my
thoughts are often of home, and those I've left behind. Travelling
can be lonely, and frightening (like last winter on a drive out the
Highway - a moose stepped in front of my truck and I veered into a
snowbank 160 miles from the nearest town; two hours of daylight left
and temperatures dropping down to the -20's...). Travelling is
expensive, too, and I've often thought that for the price of a trip
to Alaska I could have remodeled my kitchen, or bought Mark a new
garden tractor.
> I'm always sure that mySometimes I feel boring, too, Pam, as people who don't travel find it
>sister-in-law, who hasn't stayed on one continent for more than about three
>months for the last decade or so, thinks Eric and I are boring. And
>sometimes I feel boring.
hard to really relate to people who do. I mean, after you've
impressed people with your latest adventures - then what? The people
who live in one place go back to talking about what they know, who
did what last week and what so-and-so thought about it - and I'm
feeling very much the outsider who just dropped in for tea.
> But I'm also proud of the roots we've sunk. WeJust so. And I often miss that feeling of familiar comfortableness,
>know this place. I walk in my neighborhood enough to recognize the cats,
>know how this year's apricot crop compares to last, to know someone died in
>that house not long ago. We know lots of people here and when we meet new
>people, there's often a connection to someone else we know.
of being in one's place.
>I've been thinking a lot about how the United States is almost entirely aI think about that quite a bit, too. I find it fascinating to study
>nation of immigrants and movers.
how we as a country got to where we are now, and the increasing ease
of travel over time plays a huge part in that.
> Now I have complete support for thoseI've asked those questions many times. My travels are primarily an
>who've come here to escape oppression, and I don't even begrudge anyone for
>leaving the SF Bay Area because they can't afford the ridiculous housing
>prices for their growing families. But it's interesting to think about the
>fact that most of us are descended from people who were willing to up and
>leave their families thousands of miles behind (and for most of U.S. history
>that meant never seeing them again). What does that say about what our
>"family values " really are? What messages are we giving our children when
>we move away from extended family for a promotion or bigger house?
effort to hold our whole extended family together over the years, and
I count myself lucky that I'm only dealing with two states, two
relatively smallish areas, and they're not spread out all over the
country. And I'm also lucky that there's been more and more
discussion this summer of moving everyone closer together again -
this is a close family, and those who've been able to travel to
Alaska find they really miss those who've settled down for good in
Washington state. So I think there's going to be a major shift
southward this fall.
>And what happens to our communities? When people move frequently, it's hardVery well stated - I've seen that sameness, that plastic-coated
>to know, much less count on your neighbors. I know that there are other
>factors - two parents working, school, long commutes, scheduled lives - that
>play into this, but the sense we have that people may only be here short term
>plays a role. It also seems to me that all this moving may not be so
>adventurous after all because the more transient we've become as a society,
>the more the same different places have become. There's hardly any local
>flavor left anymore; it's all Gap, Starbucks, McDonalds and Walmart. We
>can't just blame corporations for that. Lots and lots of us clearly want
>that safety and sameness, that comfort that people used to get from staying
>in one place and knowing generations from the same family.
overlay from city to city to city, and it's depressing. I remember
when much of the excitement of travelling was seeing how *different*
things looked in different places, but now it's homogenizing into the
same franchises and superstores everywhere.
>We might still move (right now we're looking at Portland), but it's not goingI've lived in Portland (and the suburbs of Lake Oswego, Troutdale,
>to be easy for this stick-in-the-mud.
and Hillsboro), and it's a really cool city - for a city. Lots of
beautiful areas around there, and an amazing variety of things to do.
We spent two weeks there last June and really had a great time!
>Berkeley is so awesome in the fall.I'm originally from the Healdsburg-Guerneville area over toward the
coast, and I still remember the sounds and smells of fall in that
country. I've never found a place that even comes close to that
particular combination of redwoods, vineyards, oak trees, apples, and
just a hint of the sea!
Helen
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/27/02 4:12:55 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I love travelling, because I've travelled all my life: I've been over
the Alaska Highway over 200 times >>
Wow!! I thought twice was a lot...:)
There used to be a place called Esthers Inn somewhere in Whitehorse, is it
still there? It was an oasis after a long day driving! We loved it.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< I love travelling, because I've travelled all my life: I've been over
the Alaska Highway over 200 times >>
Wow!! I thought twice was a lot...:)
There used to be a place called Esthers Inn somewhere in Whitehorse, is it
still there? It was an oasis after a long day driving! We loved it.
Ren
Helen Hegener
At 5:49 PM -0400 8/27/02, starsuncloud@... wrote:
Helen
>Wow!! I thought twice was a lot...:)I don't recognize the name...
>There used to be a place called Esthers Inn somewhere in Whitehorse, is it
>still there? It was an oasis after a long day driving! We loved it.
Helen