-Please, Ned, please
[email protected]
-=-Please, please, please, yourself.
Wasn't the recommended procedure to ignore me if you get queazy?-=
That was Ned to Zenmomma / Mary.
Ned,
Mary is one of the most popular contributors to www.unschooling.com.
There are people who go there and read BECAUSE Mary is there.
You're treating her like an idiot, and you are very wrong to do so.
<< In the last month here, I've read about six hours about religions, about
three hours about Phonics games, at least two hours about Hell,etc. >>
You could ignore it if it makes you queasy. But that wasn't aimed at you. It
wasn't destructive, and it wasn't insulting.
This list exists for unschoolers to help other unschoolers. Perhaps as you
are not currently unschooling you could find another outlet for your obvious
need to scare and disturb and insult people.
<<But mention something about how unschooling is
subject to stupid laws and ignorant politicians and judges who want to make
it illegal, and WHAP, the fertilizer hits the vent, collectivist
sensitivities are ruffled, the defenders of the status quo come out snarling
and demanding silence, go away, yadayada. Where is the moderator when we
need one?!>>
It's partly what you say, but it's mostly the way you say it, with total
disregard for the feelings of anyone, with EXTREME rudeness and drama, that
is irritating people, Ned. You make fun of people for begging you to be
nicer.
<<. This list is probably the vanguard of
homeschooling, the storm troops, the elite corps of homeschooling, the first
team (sorry about all the guy analogies)>>
No, there are lots of unschooling outlets and forums.
Unschooling is the vanguard of homeschooling, I don't doubt. But this list
isn't the only one by far.
<<Unschoolers are the people who have
tried curriculum-in-a-box and sent it back as useless and controlling, too
much like what we're trying to forget. >>
Many of us never did that.
Because of lists like this (when they are calm and more useful) and because
of bulletin boards online for the past twelve years, and newsgroups before
that, very many unschoolers come straight to unschooling, bypassing the
formal curriculum.
<<We're also NOT the people who care a
lot about hurting anyone's feelings (check Tia's tag line) or worrying
whether we're politically correct.>>
You misunderstand Tia's tagline.
<<HOMESCHOOLING IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT.
Are you not aware of that? Is that news to anyone?
and...
UNSCHOOLING IS OFF THE CHARTS INCORRECT,>>
You are yelling at the choir.
The tone is rude.
You're telling us what we already know.
Why?
<<In fact, this list just might be where homeschooling should be planning its
national survival, or maybe its great surge to achieve total acceptance.>>
We don't need total acceptance or national survival (AGAIN, for the many-eth
time, this is an international list).
We need individual daily success and peace in homes. Families need to learn
to relax into natural learning, not be scared that the county will show up to
take their kids away. Unschooling will work for more people the more people
it works for. By encouraging and aiding those who choose it, the surface of
the movement is larger, more people will have known a successful unschooling
family personally, there will be more tales to find easily, continually
mounting evidence and confidence, and gradually (because it can't be grabbed)
more acceptance.
<If people get nervous when we talk,
I'm sorry, but this is not the place where we need to explain ourselves or
mince our words. >>
People get nervous when YOU talk.
We DO need to explain ourselves here. You don't like to do it.
This isn't a political rally.
<< I want not to cajole
people, to inspire, to encourage if possible...not to give ideas for daily
plans, but life-changing insights. >>
Unschoolers do both all the time.
YOU might not want to inspire and to encourage and help people with their
unschooling in this moment, but I really do and your ranting is not helping
what some of us have been doing for many years, and what some who come here
THIS WEEK will be doing for many years after some of us have grown children
and are no longer in the front lines of inspiring and encouraging. That cast
changes. But Mary/Zenmomma and Pam/Psoroosh are valuable in ways you are
not, Ned, and if you have any vestige of respect for those who ARE doing
valuable work, back off of them and let them do their work without being
shamed by you in public.
<<I mostly respond to other people's posts in the best, most helpful way I
can, and I'll admit that most of what I believe will offend some group or
other, but I won't apologize, and I need a good reason to go away,
especially when the listmembers who have expressed interest in what I say
also seem to be the best-informed and most clear-headed.>>
Make a new list and invite people here to it. See how many you get. You
might get lots!
You've just stated that those who oppose your tone or who express lack of
interest in what you are expressing are not the best informed and not the
most clear headed people here. That is a broad and deep insult.
<<Hurray for unschooling. It is leading the way, but it takes courage.>>
You doubt my courage Ned?
<<Courage. >>
You think that those who don't want to hear you rant about libertarian
sky-falling are lacking in courage? That they're just not very smart?
I hope you can learn some tact and compassion. It's not too late.
Sandra
Wasn't the recommended procedure to ignore me if you get queazy?-=
That was Ned to Zenmomma / Mary.
Ned,
Mary is one of the most popular contributors to www.unschooling.com.
There are people who go there and read BECAUSE Mary is there.
You're treating her like an idiot, and you are very wrong to do so.
<< In the last month here, I've read about six hours about religions, about
three hours about Phonics games, at least two hours about Hell,etc. >>
You could ignore it if it makes you queasy. But that wasn't aimed at you. It
wasn't destructive, and it wasn't insulting.
This list exists for unschoolers to help other unschoolers. Perhaps as you
are not currently unschooling you could find another outlet for your obvious
need to scare and disturb and insult people.
<<But mention something about how unschooling is
subject to stupid laws and ignorant politicians and judges who want to make
it illegal, and WHAP, the fertilizer hits the vent, collectivist
sensitivities are ruffled, the defenders of the status quo come out snarling
and demanding silence, go away, yadayada. Where is the moderator when we
need one?!>>
It's partly what you say, but it's mostly the way you say it, with total
disregard for the feelings of anyone, with EXTREME rudeness and drama, that
is irritating people, Ned. You make fun of people for begging you to be
nicer.
<<. This list is probably the vanguard of
homeschooling, the storm troops, the elite corps of homeschooling, the first
team (sorry about all the guy analogies)>>
No, there are lots of unschooling outlets and forums.
Unschooling is the vanguard of homeschooling, I don't doubt. But this list
isn't the only one by far.
<<Unschoolers are the people who have
tried curriculum-in-a-box and sent it back as useless and controlling, too
much like what we're trying to forget. >>
Many of us never did that.
Because of lists like this (when they are calm and more useful) and because
of bulletin boards online for the past twelve years, and newsgroups before
that, very many unschoolers come straight to unschooling, bypassing the
formal curriculum.
<<We're also NOT the people who care a
lot about hurting anyone's feelings (check Tia's tag line) or worrying
whether we're politically correct.>>
You misunderstand Tia's tagline.
<<HOMESCHOOLING IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT.
Are you not aware of that? Is that news to anyone?
and...
UNSCHOOLING IS OFF THE CHARTS INCORRECT,>>
You are yelling at the choir.
The tone is rude.
You're telling us what we already know.
Why?
<<In fact, this list just might be where homeschooling should be planning its
national survival, or maybe its great surge to achieve total acceptance.>>
We don't need total acceptance or national survival (AGAIN, for the many-eth
time, this is an international list).
We need individual daily success and peace in homes. Families need to learn
to relax into natural learning, not be scared that the county will show up to
take their kids away. Unschooling will work for more people the more people
it works for. By encouraging and aiding those who choose it, the surface of
the movement is larger, more people will have known a successful unschooling
family personally, there will be more tales to find easily, continually
mounting evidence and confidence, and gradually (because it can't be grabbed)
more acceptance.
<If people get nervous when we talk,
I'm sorry, but this is not the place where we need to explain ourselves or
mince our words. >>
People get nervous when YOU talk.
We DO need to explain ourselves here. You don't like to do it.
This isn't a political rally.
<< I want not to cajole
people, to inspire, to encourage if possible...not to give ideas for daily
plans, but life-changing insights. >>
Unschoolers do both all the time.
YOU might not want to inspire and to encourage and help people with their
unschooling in this moment, but I really do and your ranting is not helping
what some of us have been doing for many years, and what some who come here
THIS WEEK will be doing for many years after some of us have grown children
and are no longer in the front lines of inspiring and encouraging. That cast
changes. But Mary/Zenmomma and Pam/Psoroosh are valuable in ways you are
not, Ned, and if you have any vestige of respect for those who ARE doing
valuable work, back off of them and let them do their work without being
shamed by you in public.
<<I mostly respond to other people's posts in the best, most helpful way I
can, and I'll admit that most of what I believe will offend some group or
other, but I won't apologize, and I need a good reason to go away,
especially when the listmembers who have expressed interest in what I say
also seem to be the best-informed and most clear-headed.>>
Make a new list and invite people here to it. See how many you get. You
might get lots!
You've just stated that those who oppose your tone or who express lack of
interest in what you are expressing are not the best informed and not the
most clear headed people here. That is a broad and deep insult.
<<Hurray for unschooling. It is leading the way, but it takes courage.>>
You doubt my courage Ned?
<<Courage. >>
You think that those who don't want to hear you rant about libertarian
sky-falling are lacking in courage? That they're just not very smart?
I hope you can learn some tact and compassion. It's not too late.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
>Absolutely! It's got nothing to do with hurting people's feelings or not,
>
><<We're also NOT the people who care a
>lot about hurting anyone's feelings (check Tia's tag line) or worrying
>whether we're politically correct.>>
>
>You misunderstand Tia's tagline.
or political correctness.
What you think of me is none of my business.
*********************************************************
Tia Leschke leschke@...
On Vancouver Island