Re: 2227 -Please, Ned, please
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
on 8/10/02 10:18 PM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
Wasn't the recommended procedure to ignore me if you get queazy?
How will we
Mary, "life is good," but it can be a whole lot better. We could be free.
Imagine that.
For all the years that my last son was educating himself in his own way at
home or wherever Luz and I went, I kept thinking what it would have been
like if we lived someplace where we were not permitted that freedom. It
often made me cry.
And I am still brought to tears, listening to the people who call us up and
tell us their stories of how the schools insulted and abused their children
and intimidated them, the parents, for years until they found a phone number
and called, only half-believing - after all the lies they had been told by
the schools - that they were free to take their children out of those holes
and away from those robots and give then a happy existence if it was still
possible, worrying that the damage was (is) too severe to mend.
I have two other children, boy and girl twins, now 32, who, before I knew
about homeschooling, went to those places, and they were noticeably crippled
by it...still have aversions to the printed word, still have nightmares (the
girl) about not being allowed to go to the bathroom and having no choice but
to pee in her seat, and then being forced to sit in it the rest of the day.
We hear such tales often about how the schools are equal parts prison,
factory and insane asylum.
In the last month here, I've read about six hours about religions, about
three hours about Phonics games, at least two hours about Hell,etc. It might
be a worthwhile exercise to count the ways in which posts have been
irrelevant to unschooling since I've joined. I've not heard a word of
discontent about them. But mention something about how unschooling is
subject to stupid laws and ignorant politicians and judges who want to make
it illegal, and WHAP, the fertilizer hits the vent, collectivist
sensitivities are ruffled, the defenders of the status quo come out snarling
and demanding silence, go away, yadayada. Where is the moderator when we
need one?!
Let's get down. Connect the dots. This list is probably the vanguard of
homeschooling, the storm troops, the elite corps of homeschooling, the first
team (sorry about all the guy analogies) Unschoolers are the people who have
tried curriculum-in-a-box and sent it back as useless and controlling, too
much like what we're trying to forget. We're also NOT the people who care a
lot about hurting anyone's feelings (check Tia's tag line) or worrying
whether we're politically correct.
HOMESCHOOLING IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT.
Are you not aware of that? Is that news to anyone?
and...
UNSCHOOLING IS OFF THE CHARTS INCORRECT,
even by most homeschoolers. If you're a newbie, welcome to grad school. This
is the hard core of the NOT SCHOOL apple.
In fact, this list just might be where homeschooling should be planning its
national survival, or maybe its great surge to achieve total acceptance.
If it's not here, where? And if it's not us, then who? I want not to cajole
people, to inspire, to encourage if possible...not to give ideas for daily
plans, but life-changing insights. Years ago, Holt's words hit me like an
avalanche. Gatto is doing it today for thousands.
We are the edge of the fringe; the few. If people get nervous when we talk,
I'm sorry, but this is not the place where we need to explain ourselves or
mince our words. My libertarian principles not mere political expressions,
they are life-guiding, and they are identical to unschooling principles --
freedom from outside control, personal responsibility for our individual
choices, and no violence or the threat of it. Homeschooling is the
anti-school, the refuge from control by (strange) strangers.
I mostly respond to other people's posts in the best, most helpful way I
can, and I'll admit that most of what I believe will offend some group or
other, but I won't apologize, and I need a good reason to go away,
especially when the listmembers who have expressed interest in what I say
also seem to be the best-informed and most clear-headed.
Hurray for unschooling. It is leading the way, but it takes courage.
Courage.
Ned Vare
[email protected] wrote:
>>Please, please, please, yourself.
>> Please, please, please Ned. Please take this particular discussion
>> off-list.
>> Please let's move the discussion back towatds the positives of unschooling.
>> Please let's.
>>
>> Please. It's a personal request. Please.
>>
>> Life is good.
>> ~Mary
>>
>>
Wasn't the recommended procedure to ignore me if you get queazy?
How will we
>> share the joy and fun and beauty of watching our childrenif the NEA gets its way?
>> blossom and learn
Mary, "life is good," but it can be a whole lot better. We could be free.
Imagine that.
For all the years that my last son was educating himself in his own way at
home or wherever Luz and I went, I kept thinking what it would have been
like if we lived someplace where we were not permitted that freedom. It
often made me cry.
And I am still brought to tears, listening to the people who call us up and
tell us their stories of how the schools insulted and abused their children
and intimidated them, the parents, for years until they found a phone number
and called, only half-believing - after all the lies they had been told by
the schools - that they were free to take their children out of those holes
and away from those robots and give then a happy existence if it was still
possible, worrying that the damage was (is) too severe to mend.
I have two other children, boy and girl twins, now 32, who, before I knew
about homeschooling, went to those places, and they were noticeably crippled
by it...still have aversions to the printed word, still have nightmares (the
girl) about not being allowed to go to the bathroom and having no choice but
to pee in her seat, and then being forced to sit in it the rest of the day.
We hear such tales often about how the schools are equal parts prison,
factory and insane asylum.
In the last month here, I've read about six hours about religions, about
three hours about Phonics games, at least two hours about Hell,etc. It might
be a worthwhile exercise to count the ways in which posts have been
irrelevant to unschooling since I've joined. I've not heard a word of
discontent about them. But mention something about how unschooling is
subject to stupid laws and ignorant politicians and judges who want to make
it illegal, and WHAP, the fertilizer hits the vent, collectivist
sensitivities are ruffled, the defenders of the status quo come out snarling
and demanding silence, go away, yadayada. Where is the moderator when we
need one?!
Let's get down. Connect the dots. This list is probably the vanguard of
homeschooling, the storm troops, the elite corps of homeschooling, the first
team (sorry about all the guy analogies) Unschoolers are the people who have
tried curriculum-in-a-box and sent it back as useless and controlling, too
much like what we're trying to forget. We're also NOT the people who care a
lot about hurting anyone's feelings (check Tia's tag line) or worrying
whether we're politically correct.
HOMESCHOOLING IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT.
Are you not aware of that? Is that news to anyone?
and...
UNSCHOOLING IS OFF THE CHARTS INCORRECT,
even by most homeschoolers. If you're a newbie, welcome to grad school. This
is the hard core of the NOT SCHOOL apple.
In fact, this list just might be where homeschooling should be planning its
national survival, or maybe its great surge to achieve total acceptance.
If it's not here, where? And if it's not us, then who? I want not to cajole
people, to inspire, to encourage if possible...not to give ideas for daily
plans, but life-changing insights. Years ago, Holt's words hit me like an
avalanche. Gatto is doing it today for thousands.
We are the edge of the fringe; the few. If people get nervous when we talk,
I'm sorry, but this is not the place where we need to explain ourselves or
mince our words. My libertarian principles not mere political expressions,
they are life-guiding, and they are identical to unschooling principles --
freedom from outside control, personal responsibility for our individual
choices, and no violence or the threat of it. Homeschooling is the
anti-school, the refuge from control by (strange) strangers.
I mostly respond to other people's posts in the best, most helpful way I
can, and I'll admit that most of what I believe will offend some group or
other, but I won't apologize, and I need a good reason to go away,
especially when the listmembers who have expressed interest in what I say
also seem to be the best-informed and most clear-headed.
Hurray for unschooling. It is leading the way, but it takes courage.
Courage.
Ned Vare
Helen Hegener
At 8:39 PM -0400 8/11/02, Luz Shosie and Ned Vare wrote:
Ned's often inflammatory rhetoric just delete his messages unread.
Mine too of course. <g>
You seem like an intelligent person, Ned. Many of your posts are
witty, informative, enlightening and interesting. So it puzzles me
that you seem unable to distinguish those posts from the merely
obnoxious political propaganda posts that I and others have objected
to. And when we do object you try to whitewash the situation by
claiming nonsense such as what you wrote above. This seems pretty
disingenuous to me, Ned.
these same things five, ten, fifteen years ago? Why the sudden
interest in rallying the troops now? Methink thou dost probably have
something now to sell...
you've finally found a group that - some of us, anyway - understands
and relates to what you're trying to say? Did it ever occur to you
that many of us have been here for many years, saying the same
things, and your blatherings are nothing we haven't heard before
hundreds of times? You seem to have risen up from the ranks of this
list to seize some crown of virtuosity - King of the Hairy Unwashed
Unschoolers? Well, if you want to be our Fearless Leader, fine. Lead
on, McDuff. Some will probably follow you, but I think most will
probably do what all good unschoolers do, which is take what's useful
and pitch the rest and go merrily on their own way.
waited until now to speak up? No, really, I'm interested. I've read
quite a bit of your writings over the years, not here, but in many
other forums. I'm pretty good at remembering names and I've seen
yours around for many years. But why have you suddenly decided that
this list is a good place to spend your time and energies?
mine, not anyone else's. I don't have to clobber this list with my
personal political persuasions to get my point across, and neither do
you.
ultimate ego-trip.
Helen
>Wasn't the recommended procedure to ignore me if you get queazy?Good advice, Ned, and I'll repeat it: If anyone here is bothered by
Ned's often inflammatory rhetoric just delete his messages unread.
Mine too of course. <g>
> In the last month here, I've read about six hours about religions, aboutThe moderator is right here, and so is the listowner.
>three hours about Phonics games, at least two hours about Hell,etc. It might
>be a worthwhile exercise to count the ways in which posts have been
>irrelevant to unschooling since I've joined. I've not heard a word of
>discontent about them. But mention something about how unschooling is
>subject to stupid laws and ignorant politicians and judges who want to make
>it illegal, and WHAP, the fertilizer hits the vent, collectivist
>sensitivities are ruffled, the defenders of the status quo come out snarling
>and demanding silence, go away, yadayada. Where is the moderator when we
>need one?!
You seem like an intelligent person, Ned. Many of your posts are
witty, informative, enlightening and interesting. So it puzzles me
that you seem unable to distinguish those posts from the merely
obnoxious political propaganda posts that I and others have objected
to. And when we do object you try to whitewash the situation by
claiming nonsense such as what you wrote above. This seems pretty
disingenuous to me, Ned.
>Let's get down. Connect the dots. This list is probably the vanguard ofSo, Militaristic One, where were you when so many of us were saying
>homeschooling, the storm troops, the elite corps of homeschooling, the first
>team (sorry about all the guy analogies) Unschoolers are the people who have
>tried curriculum-in-a-box and sent it back as useless and controlling, too
>much like what we're trying to forget. We're also NOT the people who care a
>lot about hurting anyone's feelings (check Tia's tag line) or worrying
>whether we're politically correct.
these same things five, ten, fifteen years ago? Why the sudden
interest in rallying the troops now? Methink thou dost probably have
something now to sell...
>HOMESCHOOLING IS POLITICALLY INCORRECT.Is there really any difference in Politically Correct and Politically Coerced?
>Are you not aware of that? Is that news to anyone?
>and...Nice rhetoric, Ned. But what do you really mean? Are you saying
>UNSCHOOLING IS OFF THE CHARTS INCORRECT,
>even by most homeschoolers. If you're a newbie, welcome to grad school. This
>is the hard core of the NOT SCHOOL apple.
you've finally found a group that - some of us, anyway - understands
and relates to what you're trying to say? Did it ever occur to you
that many of us have been here for many years, saying the same
things, and your blatherings are nothing we haven't heard before
hundreds of times? You seem to have risen up from the ranks of this
list to seize some crown of virtuosity - King of the Hairy Unwashed
Unschoolers? Well, if you want to be our Fearless Leader, fine. Lead
on, McDuff. Some will probably follow you, but I think most will
probably do what all good unschoolers do, which is take what's useful
and pitch the rest and go merrily on their own way.
>In fact, this list just might be where homeschooling should be planning itsSo if you were reading Holt all those many years ago, why have you
>national survival, or maybe its great surge to achieve total acceptance.
>
>If it's not here, where? And if it's not us, then who? I want not to cajole
>people, to inspire, to encourage if possible...not to give ideas for daily
>plans, but life-changing insights. Years ago, Holt's words hit me like an
>avalanche. Gatto is doing it today for thousands.
waited until now to speak up? No, really, I'm interested. I've read
quite a bit of your writings over the years, not here, but in many
other forums. I'm pretty good at remembering names and I've seen
yours around for many years. But why have you suddenly decided that
this list is a good place to spend your time and energies?
>We are the edge of the fringe; the few. If people get nervous when we talk,But your libertarian principles are just exactly that - Yours. Not
>I'm sorry, but this is not the place where we need to explain ourselves or
>mince our words. My libertarian principles not mere political expressions,
>they are life-guiding, and they are identical to unschooling principles --
>freedom from outside control, personal responsibility for our individual
>choices, and no violence or the threat of it. Homeschooling is the
>anti-school, the refuge from control by (strange) strangers.
mine, not anyone else's. I don't have to clobber this list with my
personal political persuasions to get my point across, and neither do
you.
>I mostly respond to other people's posts in the best, most helpful way IIt's always easy to see wisdom in those who agree with you. The
>can, and I'll admit that most of what I believe will offend some group or
>other, but I won't apologize, and I need a good reason to go away,
>especially when the listmembers who have expressed interest in what I say
>also seem to be the best-informed and most clear-headed.
ultimate ego-trip.
Helen
zenmomma *
>>Please, please, please, yourself.Okay then. Delete, Delete. Delete. ::shrugs:: I will read no more of your
>Wasn't the recommended procedure to ignore me if you get queazy?>>
posts. Actually, they're all starting to bug me, so...whatever.
~Mary
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