christianity
gruvystarchild
"Christianity comes from Christ, religion is man made."
How do you figure? Christ didn't start a religion, he did turn the
status quo on it's head though.
Christianity is what started after he was gone. And by most accounts
is considered one of the major world religions. Are you disagreeing
with the view that it is? I have taken a World religions class and we
discussed Christianity as a major world religion. You are going
against common knowledge to say it isn't a religion.
I do agree that religion is man made, that part I can handle. But to
ignore Christianity as a major world religion seems crazy. Here is
something I copied from a website dedicated to the comparison of all
the major world religions.
"There are a multitude of forms of Christianity which have developed
either because of disagreements on dogma, adaptation to different
cultures, or simply personal taste. For this reason there can be a
great difference between the various forms of Christianity they may
seem like different religions to some people."
Many religions have several different denominations, or sects.
That is where the lutheran, prodestant, baptist etc.... comes in.
Christianity is, and probably always will be, a religion.
Ren
How do you figure? Christ didn't start a religion, he did turn the
status quo on it's head though.
Christianity is what started after he was gone. And by most accounts
is considered one of the major world religions. Are you disagreeing
with the view that it is? I have taken a World religions class and we
discussed Christianity as a major world religion. You are going
against common knowledge to say it isn't a religion.
I do agree that religion is man made, that part I can handle. But to
ignore Christianity as a major world religion seems crazy. Here is
something I copied from a website dedicated to the comparison of all
the major world religions.
"There are a multitude of forms of Christianity which have developed
either because of disagreements on dogma, adaptation to different
cultures, or simply personal taste. For this reason there can be a
great difference between the various forms of Christianity they may
seem like different religions to some people."
Many religions have several different denominations, or sects.
That is where the lutheran, prodestant, baptist etc.... comes in.
Christianity is, and probably always will be, a religion.
Ren
Leslie Avery
For starters, I am an unschooler so I go against
common belief of most things. Because of my own
experience in the Christian church I have seen how
most people even those who teach about world religions
haven't a clue about the spirituality of a belief.
It is the head knowledge they teach about not the
heart knowledge. This applies to anything not just a
discussion on faith. One who does not unschool cannot
possibly teach about it, he can teach about what he
knows from a book or from what others have told him
but not from his own experience. Someone who is not a
parent cannot possibly write a book on parenting until
he walks the walk of a parent such can be said for any
belief. It is the heart knowledge that makes it a
belief and the head knowledge without the heart
knowledge that makes it a religion.
Leslie
--- gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
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common belief of most things. Because of my own
experience in the Christian church I have seen how
most people even those who teach about world religions
haven't a clue about the spirituality of a belief.
It is the head knowledge they teach about not the
heart knowledge. This applies to anything not just a
discussion on faith. One who does not unschool cannot
possibly teach about it, he can teach about what he
knows from a book or from what others have told him
but not from his own experience. Someone who is not a
parent cannot possibly write a book on parenting until
he walks the walk of a parent such can be said for any
belief. It is the heart knowledge that makes it a
belief and the head knowledge without the heart
knowledge that makes it a religion.
Leslie
--- gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> "Christianity comes from Christ, religion is man__________________________________________________
> made."
>
> How do you figure? Christ didn't start a religion,
> he did turn the
> status quo on it's head though.
> Christianity is what started after he was gone. And
> by most accounts
> is considered one of the major world religions. Are
> you disagreeing
> with the view that it is? I have taken a World
> religions class and we
> discussed Christianity as a major world religion.
> You are going
> against common knowledge to say it isn't a religion.
> I do agree that religion is man made, that part I
> can handle. But to
> ignore Christianity as a major world religion seems
> crazy. Here is
> something I copied from a website dedicated to the
> comparison of all
> the major world religions.
>
>
> "There are a multitude of forms of Christianity
> which have developed
> either because of disagreements on dogma, adaptation
> to different
> cultures, or simply personal taste. For this reason
> there can be a
> great difference between the various forms of
> Christianity they may
> seem like different religions to some people."
>
> Many religions have several different denominations,
> or sects.
> That is where the lutheran, prodestant, baptist
> etc.... comes in.
> Christianity is, and probably always will be, a
> religion.
>
> Ren
>
>
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gruvystarchild
" One who does not unschool cannot
possibly teach about it, he can teach about what he
knows from a book or from what others have told him
but not from his own experience. Someone who is not a
parent cannot possibly write a book on parenting until
he walks the walk of a parent such can be said for any
belief."
One who does not unschool? Like John Holt? He is considered the
Father of Unschooling, the man who took natural learning ideas and
made them a workable, very real option for many families.
He was not a parent himself, he did not unschool anyone but himself.
Are you saying his ideas hold no validity and that all of us here
that read his books and apply his knowledge are fools?
Your overgeneralized statements can not apply in real life, they
aren't even a little bit true.
I also have recieved a massive dose of knowledge about children and
the natural learning process from Rachel Carson, another non-parent.
Many people understand children and how they learn without having
children themselves.
If you write them off just because they aren't parents, you will be
missing out on a lot.
There are oodles of people that are parents, that I wouldn't listen
to one word they had to say.
Parents that regularly belittle, or worse, damage and hurt their
children.
Are you saying that just because they are parents, they can teach me
more than someone who is not a parent? ugh.
"It is the heart knowledge that makes it a
belief and the head knowledge without the heart
knowledge that makes it a religion"
I wouldn't deny that heart knowlege is what makes a person spiritual,
but you're acting like anyone that has head knowlege of religions
can't be spiritual also.
And what does this personal feeling have to do with errant statements
that "Christianity is not a religion"?
Just because you feel a certain way, does not change the fact that
Christianity is indeed a world religion.
For you it may be a spiritual path, that's great. But I have problems
with people making blatantly false statements, that's why I can't sit
back and ignore comments like that.
You are missing out on a huge world of wonderful, inspiring and
important information if you cut out anyone that is not a parent or
unschooler themselves.
That's sad.
Ren
possibly teach about it, he can teach about what he
knows from a book or from what others have told him
but not from his own experience. Someone who is not a
parent cannot possibly write a book on parenting until
he walks the walk of a parent such can be said for any
belief."
One who does not unschool? Like John Holt? He is considered the
Father of Unschooling, the man who took natural learning ideas and
made them a workable, very real option for many families.
He was not a parent himself, he did not unschool anyone but himself.
Are you saying his ideas hold no validity and that all of us here
that read his books and apply his knowledge are fools?
Your overgeneralized statements can not apply in real life, they
aren't even a little bit true.
I also have recieved a massive dose of knowledge about children and
the natural learning process from Rachel Carson, another non-parent.
Many people understand children and how they learn without having
children themselves.
If you write them off just because they aren't parents, you will be
missing out on a lot.
There are oodles of people that are parents, that I wouldn't listen
to one word they had to say.
Parents that regularly belittle, or worse, damage and hurt their
children.
Are you saying that just because they are parents, they can teach me
more than someone who is not a parent? ugh.
"It is the heart knowledge that makes it a
belief and the head knowledge without the heart
knowledge that makes it a religion"
I wouldn't deny that heart knowlege is what makes a person spiritual,
but you're acting like anyone that has head knowlege of religions
can't be spiritual also.
And what does this personal feeling have to do with errant statements
that "Christianity is not a religion"?
Just because you feel a certain way, does not change the fact that
Christianity is indeed a world religion.
For you it may be a spiritual path, that's great. But I have problems
with people making blatantly false statements, that's why I can't sit
back and ignore comments like that.
You are missing out on a huge world of wonderful, inspiring and
important information if you cut out anyone that is not a parent or
unschooler themselves.
That's sad.
Ren
Leslie Avery
Let us just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Leslie
--- gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
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Leslie
--- gruvystarchild <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
> " One who does not unschool cannot__________________________________________________
> possibly teach about it, he can teach about what he
> knows from a book or from what others have told him
> but not from his own experience. Someone who is not
> a
> parent cannot possibly write a book on parenting
> until
> he walks the walk of a parent such can be said for
> any
> belief."
>
> One who does not unschool? Like John Holt? He is
> considered the
> Father of Unschooling, the man who took natural
> learning ideas and
> made them a workable, very real option for many
> families.
> He was not a parent himself, he did not unschool
> anyone but himself.
> Are you saying his ideas hold no validity and that
> all of us here
> that read his books and apply his knowledge are
> fools?
> Your overgeneralized statements can not apply in
> real life, they
> aren't even a little bit true.
> I also have recieved a massive dose of knowledge
> about children and
> the natural learning process from Rachel Carson,
> another non-parent.
> Many people understand children and how they learn
> without having
> children themselves.
> If you write them off just because they aren't
> parents, you will be
> missing out on a lot.
> There are oodles of people that are parents, that I
> wouldn't listen
> to one word they had to say.
> Parents that regularly belittle, or worse, damage
> and hurt their
> children.
> Are you saying that just because they are parents,
> they can teach me
> more than someone who is not a parent? ugh.
>
> "It is the heart knowledge that makes it a
> belief and the head knowledge without the heart
> knowledge that makes it a religion"
>
> I wouldn't deny that heart knowlege is what makes a
> person spiritual,
> but you're acting like anyone that has head knowlege
> of religions
> can't be spiritual also.
> And what does this personal feeling have to do with
> errant statements
> that "Christianity is not a religion"?
> Just because you feel a certain way, does not change
> the fact that
> Christianity is indeed a world religion.
> For you it may be a spiritual path, that's great.
> But I have problems
> with people making blatantly false statements,
> that's why I can't sit
> back and ignore comments like that.
>
> You are missing out on a huge world of wonderful,
> inspiring and
> important information if you cut out anyone that is
> not a parent or
> unschooler themselves.
> That's sad.
>
> Ren
>
>
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gruvystarchild
"Let us just agree to disagree and leave it at that."
We obviously disagree....I wish you could back up your beliefs with
some truth or at the least a fact.
Is there anyone else you have spoken with/read/watched that purports
the view that Christianity is not a religion?
Do you/have you read any John Holt?
I am floored by the statements that you would not read or listen to
anyone about unschooling/parenting that weren't parent's themselves.
Ren
We obviously disagree....I wish you could back up your beliefs with
some truth or at the least a fact.
Is there anyone else you have spoken with/read/watched that purports
the view that Christianity is not a religion?
Do you/have you read any John Holt?
I am floored by the statements that you would not read or listen to
anyone about unschooling/parenting that weren't parent's themselves.
Ren
gruvystarchild
> " One who does not unschool cannotNed can't help himself:
> possibly teach about it, he can teach about what he
> knows from a book or from what others have told him
> but not from his own experience. Someone who is not a
> parent cannot possibly write a book on parenting until
> he walks the walk of a parent such can be said for any
> belief."
First, are you quoting someone else or yourself?"
Did you read my entire post?
I quoted a person named Leslie (who actually wrote the above crap)
and responded strongly against what she said.
That was the same person who is arguing that Christianity is not a
religion.
Please don't quote things and attribute them to me when they are
obviously not what I wrote.
I have been very inspired and changed by many non parents and non
unschoolers. John Holt being the foremost influence.
I questioned the above post and her response was "we should just
agree to disagree".
So apparently the person has no arguement for writing such
falsehoods.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/11/02 7:27:28 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< I quoted a person named Leslie (who actually wrote the above crap) >>
STOP it.
STOP insulting people directly and insulting what people say and insulting
how people think.
STOP saying we are gullible because of school.
STOP saying I believe in social causes because I was a teacher.
STOP being rude and insensitive and horrible.
Sandra
<< I quoted a person named Leslie (who actually wrote the above crap) >>
STOP it.
STOP insulting people directly and insulting what people say and insulting
how people think.
STOP saying we are gullible because of school.
STOP saying I believe in social causes because I was a teacher.
STOP being rude and insensitive and horrible.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/11/02 7:27:28 AM, starsuncloud@... writes:
<< I quoted a person named Leslie (who actually wrote the above crap) >>
Oh that was REN's post!
(Ren, don't say "crap," if that was you, it made me think you were Ned.)
And if you were using color or formatting for quotes, it didn't come through
and so I couldn't tell whose bits were whose.
But I would very, very much like for Ned to stop insulting people and
commandeering the list for his own anti-school, anti-government,
conspiracy-theory, nutty-paranoid hobby.
Sandra
<< I quoted a person named Leslie (who actually wrote the above crap) >>
Oh that was REN's post!
(Ren, don't say "crap," if that was you, it made me think you were Ned.)
And if you were using color or formatting for quotes, it didn't come through
and so I couldn't tell whose bits were whose.
But I would very, very much like for Ned to stop insulting people and
commandeering the list for his own anti-school, anti-government,
conspiracy-theory, nutty-paranoid hobby.
Sandra
Leslie Avery
I am the Leslie whose crap was quoted. I came on this
website to discuss with people who have different
perspectives of life, not to be attacked by people who
disagree. We all see life and RELIGION differently and
that is okay. We shouldn't have to prove to others
why we feel the way we feel, nor should I expect
others to offer proof to me. But what I did expect
was not to be critized so vehemently for my feelings.
I accept responsiblity for participating in a
discussion on RELIGION which I should have known
better.
Leslie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
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website to discuss with people who have different
perspectives of life, not to be attacked by people who
disagree. We all see life and RELIGION differently and
that is okay. We shouldn't have to prove to others
why we feel the way we feel, nor should I expect
others to offer proof to me. But what I did expect
was not to be critized so vehemently for my feelings.
I accept responsiblity for participating in a
discussion on RELIGION which I should have known
better.
Leslie
--- SandraDodd@... wrote:
>__________________________________________________
> In a message dated 8/11/02 7:27:28 AM,
> starsuncloud@... writes:
>
> << I quoted a person named Leslie (who actually
> wrote the above crap) >>
>
> Oh that was REN's post!
> (Ren, don't say "crap," if that was you, it made me
> think you were Ned.)
>
> And if you were using color or formatting for
> quotes, it didn't come through
> and so I couldn't tell whose bits were whose.
>
> But I would very, very much like for Ned to stop
> insulting people and
> commandeering the list for his own anti-school,
> anti-government,
> conspiracy-theory, nutty-paranoid hobby.
>
> Sandra
>
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[email protected]
In a message dated 8/14/02 11:43:18 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< He flat out called Himself
God, and the only God at that, and said that "if you're mine, you'll hear my
voice and follow me. >>
Could you please reference the verse where he actually says that. He doesn't
even say "I AM the son of God" from what I've read. Although he alludes to it
and does not deny it.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<< He flat out called Himself
God, and the only God at that, and said that "if you're mine, you'll hear my
voice and follow me. >>
Could you please reference the verse where he actually says that. He doesn't
even say "I AM the son of God" from what I've read. Although he alludes to it
and does not deny it.
Ren
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/14/2002 11:06:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
am."
In John 20:28 Thomas called him "My Lord and my God," which Jesus didn't seem
to mind! Plus, Christians are told to honor the Son as they do the Father
(John 5: somewhere).
In John 10:33 the Jews (who knew their theology) try to stone Him for making
himself out to be God.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> Although he alludes to itYou're right, he alludes. "I and my Father are one." "Before Abraham was, I
> and does not deny it.
am."
In John 20:28 Thomas called him "My Lord and my God," which Jesus didn't seem
to mind! Plus, Christians are told to honor the Son as they do the Father
(John 5: somewhere).
In John 10:33 the Jews (who knew their theology) try to stone Him for making
himself out to be God.
Bob
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/14/02 1:18:49 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
I've known too many people who couldn't tell the difference between being a
good person, pleasing God and avoiding hell. They were all one and the same
thing. >>
She's right you know.
There is SO much fear in many people's "devotion" that it's sad.
I was raised in a very strict denomination, so my experience as a child may
have been somewhat similar to Sandra's.
Although our church shunned all "wordly churches" like the Southern Baptists
because they worshipped in a building, gathered money and such.
We worshipped in homes, wore dresses, long hair, never smoked or swore, and
talked in hushed whispers about anyone that left the faith as "missing
out".....which meant you were going to hell for sure.
It was the ONLY way. They claim it's Jesus they are following. But it's
another religion intended to control people, even if most there don't realize
it.
The ministers give up everything to go and preach which was another way you
could tell it was "truth" and not a "worldly church".
I wear makeup so I'm going to hell for sure.
Rock music is evil, even if the lyrics are worthy. It's the us vs. them
mentality, very divisive.
If you visited one of the yearly retreats (conventions) you would see many
beautiful young children running around in little dresses and pant suits, so
cute. All these simple and long haired Mums, singing, worshipping, peaceful
feeling all about. And you'd think it was nice, kinda old fashioned and nice.
You wouldn't realize the deep shunning that takes place regularly if you
don't fit the mold. Sometimes subtle, sometimes outright and blatant, but
always there.
Fear is a huge part of how they hold onto people, especially children. It
makes me ill.
Ren
[email protected] writes:
<<
I've known too many people who couldn't tell the difference between being a
good person, pleasing God and avoiding hell. They were all one and the same
thing. >>
She's right you know.
There is SO much fear in many people's "devotion" that it's sad.
I was raised in a very strict denomination, so my experience as a child may
have been somewhat similar to Sandra's.
Although our church shunned all "wordly churches" like the Southern Baptists
because they worshipped in a building, gathered money and such.
We worshipped in homes, wore dresses, long hair, never smoked or swore, and
talked in hushed whispers about anyone that left the faith as "missing
out".....which meant you were going to hell for sure.
It was the ONLY way. They claim it's Jesus they are following. But it's
another religion intended to control people, even if most there don't realize
it.
The ministers give up everything to go and preach which was another way you
could tell it was "truth" and not a "worldly church".
I wear makeup so I'm going to hell for sure.
Rock music is evil, even if the lyrics are worthy. It's the us vs. them
mentality, very divisive.
If you visited one of the yearly retreats (conventions) you would see many
beautiful young children running around in little dresses and pant suits, so
cute. All these simple and long haired Mums, singing, worshipping, peaceful
feeling all about. And you'd think it was nice, kinda old fashioned and nice.
You wouldn't realize the deep shunning that takes place regularly if you
don't fit the mold. Sometimes subtle, sometimes outright and blatant, but
always there.
Fear is a huge part of how they hold onto people, especially children. It
makes me ill.
Ren
[email protected]
<Jesus did not go to church>
Yes, I know that Jesus did not go to church. My point was that he did not
confine himself to being at an organized place of worship. Jesus spoke to
many and was followed as he lived his life. People learned from him by
listening and watching and following him (much like the philosophy of
unschooling). He touched lives of people that many in that society would
never have spoken to. I encourage anyone who wants to learn more about
Jesus, to read the bible, the book of John the Baptist. (New International
version.)
Mary
Yes, I know that Jesus did not go to church. My point was that he did not
confine himself to being at an organized place of worship. Jesus spoke to
many and was followed as he lived his life. People learned from him by
listening and watching and following him (much like the philosophy of
unschooling). He touched lives of people that many in that society would
never have spoken to. I encourage anyone who wants to learn more about
Jesus, to read the bible, the book of John the Baptist. (New International
version.)
Mary
[email protected]
<< I encourage anyone who wants to learn more about
Jesus, to read the bible, the book of John the Baptist. (New International
version.) >>
Do you mean John, as in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
That's not John the Baptist.
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible
There are over a dozen Bible translations at that site, full texts,
searchable, readable by book/chapter.
Sandra
Jesus, to read the bible, the book of John the Baptist. (New International
version.) >>
Do you mean John, as in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John?
That's not John the Baptist.
http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible
There are over a dozen Bible translations at that site, full texts,
searchable, readable by book/chapter.
Sandra
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
Hey all,
Actually, I believe many religions at that time, didn't limit themselves to
one organized place of worship. Many religions at that time (as today) had
altars in their own homes while some met in open-air locations, preached in
the marketplace, etc, etc.
A fascinating book about pre-judeo religions and the melding that went on
with the incursion of the northern 'barbarian' religion is Merlin Stone's
<When God was a Woman.> I don't know that I'd believe all of what she puts
forward, sociologically, but it's an interesting read and makes some
fascinating connections.
...but then I like sociology, so I find the evolution of belief systems all
rather fascinating. Maybe you don't as much!
Enjoy if you like,
HeidiWD
Actually, I believe many religions at that time, didn't limit themselves to
one organized place of worship. Many religions at that time (as today) had
altars in their own homes while some met in open-air locations, preached in
the marketplace, etc, etc.
A fascinating book about pre-judeo religions and the melding that went on
with the incursion of the northern 'barbarian' religion is Merlin Stone's
<When God was a Woman.> I don't know that I'd believe all of what she puts
forward, sociologically, but it's an interesting read and makes some
fascinating connections.
...but then I like sociology, so I find the evolution of belief systems all
rather fascinating. Maybe you don't as much!
Enjoy if you like,
HeidiWD
>Yes, I know that Jesus did not go to church. My point was that he did not
>confine himself to being at an organized place of worship. Jesus spoke to
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/26/03 8:08:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Unschoolingmommy@... writes:
so I could throw it into the discussion:
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>] and on this rock I will build my
church, and the gates of Hades[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not overcome it.
Ang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unschoolingmommy@... writes:
> <Jesus did not go to church>I found this scripture today, and I had to come back and find these comments
>
> Yes, I know that Jesus did not go to church.
so I could throw it into the discussion:
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>] and on this rock I will build my
church, and the gates of Hades[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not overcome it.
Ang
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
unolist@... wrote:
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>] and on this rock I will build my
church, and the gates of Hades[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not overcome it.
Well,,,,,, It says I'm forbidden to open those, hmmmmm. I wonder what that means? <g>
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>] and on this rock I will build my
church, and the gates of Hades[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not overcome it.
Well,,,,,, It says I'm forbidden to open those, hmmmmm. I wonder what that means? <g>
Kelli
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85
The word church in Scripture is the Greek word ekklesia. It is a
word that simply means a gathering of people. When used in
Scripture, it means a gathering of Christian people. All believers
in Christ make up "the church", which was never intended to be a
physical building.
Constantine decided that it would be nice to give Christians (who
were meeting in homes) temples like the pagans had. That's where the
whole concept of church buildings and formal services came from.
Sheila
word that simply means a gathering of people. When used in
Scripture, it means a gathering of Christian people. All believers
in Christ make up "the church", which was never intended to be a
physical building.
Constantine decided that it would be nice to give Christians (who
were meeting in homes) temples like the pagans had. That's where the
whole concept of church buildings and formal services came from.
Sheila
--- In [email protected], unolist@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/26/03 8:08:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Unschoolingmommy@a... writes:
>
> > <Jesus did not go to church>
> >
> > Yes, I know that Jesus did not go to church.
>
> I found this scripture today, and I had to come back and find these
comments
> so I could throw it into the discussion:
>
> Matthew 16:18
> And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A
HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>]
and on this rock I will build my
> church, and the gates of Hades[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-
bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not overcome it.
>
>
> Ang
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/27/03 12:36:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
this email either LOL. They just copied over when I pasted from the website,
i didn't intend for anyone to click on them. Here is the passage with
footnotes LOL
Matthew 16
18And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>] and on this rock I will build my
church, and the gates of Hades[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not overcome it.[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_3">3</A>]
Footnotes
1 16:18 Peter means rock.
2 16:18 Or hell
3 16:18 Or not prove stronger than it
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kellitraas@... writes:
> Well,,,,,, It says I'm forbidden to open those, hmmmmm. I wonder whatthose are just the footnotes from biblegateway.com. I couldn't open them from
> that means? <g>
>
>
>
> Kelli
>
>
this email either LOL. They just copied over when I pasted from the website,
i didn't intend for anyone to click on them. Here is the passage with
footnotes LOL
Matthew 16
18And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>] and on this rock I will build my
church, and the gates of Hades[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not overcome it.[<A HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_3">3</A>]
Footnotes
1 16:18 Peter means rock.
2 16:18 Or hell
3 16:18 Or not prove stronger than it
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/27/03 12:46:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:
the head. He is the groom, the church(group of Christians) is his bride. That
is referring to a group of believers, not a building.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> The word church in Scripture is the Greek word ekklesia. It is aThat makes sense. The church is also known as the body of Christ, Jesus is
> word that simply means a gathering of people. When used in
> Scripture, it means a gathering of Christian people. All believers
> in Christ make up "the church", which was never intended to be a
> physical building.
>
>
the head. He is the groom, the church(group of Christians) is his bride. That
is referring to a group of believers, not a building.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sablehs
--- kayb85 <sheran@...> wrote:
They eventually built many of their sites on top of the pagan's
sacred sites to help convert them to Christianity.
Tracy
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> The word church in Scripture is the Greek word ekklesia. It is a~Side note.
> word that simply means a gathering of people. When used in
> Scripture, it means a gathering of Christian people. All
> believers
> in Christ make up "the church", which was never intended to be a
> physical building.
>
> Constantine decided that it would be nice to give Christians (who
> were meeting in homes) temples like the pagans had. That's where
> the
> whole concept of church buildings and formal services came from.
They eventually built many of their sites on top of the pagan's
sacred sites to help convert them to Christianity.
Tracy
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[email protected]
In a message dated 3/27/03 1:18:31 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<<
Constantine decided that it would be nice to give Christians (who
were meeting in homes) temples like the pagans had. That's where the
whole concept of church buildings and formal services came from. >>
Constantine made a lot of choices that dictated the fate of mainstream
christianity.
The doctrine he liked was the one that said once you convert to Christianity
you were forgiven of any and all wrongdoing. So he killed a LOT of people and
did horrid things his whole life and then converted on his deathbed. Nice guy.
Mithraism would very possibly be largest world religion today had it not been
for Constantine.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<<
Constantine decided that it would be nice to give Christians (who
were meeting in homes) temples like the pagans had. That's where the
whole concept of church buildings and formal services came from. >>
Constantine made a lot of choices that dictated the fate of mainstream
christianity.
The doctrine he liked was the one that said once you convert to Christianity
you were forgiven of any and all wrongdoing. So he killed a LOT of people and
did horrid things his whole life and then converted on his deathbed. Nice guy.
Mithraism would very possibly be largest world religion today had it not been
for Constantine.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
sablehs
--- starsuncloud@... wrote:
In part {if his beliefs were indeed true} a swift political move.
http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/EastEurope/ConstantineConverts.CP.html
<snip>
Constantine believed that the Church and the State should be as
close as possible. From 312-320 Constantine was tolerant of
paganism, keeping pagan gods on coins and retaining his pagan high
priest title "Pontifex Maximus" in order to maintain popularity with
his subjects, possibly indicating that he never understood the
theology of Christianity. From 320-330 he began to attack paganism
through the government but in many cases persuaded people to follow
the laws by combining pagan worship with Christianity. He made
December 25th, the birthday of the pagan Unconquered Sun god, the
official holiday it is now--the birthday of Jesus. It is likely that
he also instituted celebrating Easter and Lent based on pagan
holidays. From 330-337 Constantine stepped up his destruction of
paganism, and during this time his mother, Helen, made a pilgrimage
to Jerusalem and began excavations to recover artifacts in the city.
This popularized the tradition of pilgrimages in Christianity.
Tracy
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> Constantine made a lot of choices that dictated the fate of(nods)
> mainstream
> christianity.
> The doctrine he liked was the one that said once you convert to
> Christianity
> you were forgiven of any and all wrongdoing. So he killed a LOT of
> people and
> did horrid things his whole life and then converted on his
> deathbed. Nice guy.
> Mithraism would very possibly be largest world religion today had
> it not been
> for Constantine.
In part {if his beliefs were indeed true} a swift political move.
http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/EastEurope/ConstantineConverts.CP.html
<snip>
Constantine believed that the Church and the State should be as
close as possible. From 312-320 Constantine was tolerant of
paganism, keeping pagan gods on coins and retaining his pagan high
priest title "Pontifex Maximus" in order to maintain popularity with
his subjects, possibly indicating that he never understood the
theology of Christianity. From 320-330 he began to attack paganism
through the government but in many cases persuaded people to follow
the laws by combining pagan worship with Christianity. He made
December 25th, the birthday of the pagan Unconquered Sun god, the
official holiday it is now--the birthday of Jesus. It is likely that
he also instituted celebrating Easter and Lent based on pagan
holidays. From 330-337 Constantine stepped up his destruction of
paganism, and during this time his mother, Helen, made a pilgrimage
to Jerusalem and began excavations to recover artifacts in the city.
This popularized the tradition of pilgrimages in Christianity.
Tracy
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
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[email protected]
In a message dated 3/27/03 8:55:02 AM, unolist@... writes:
<< Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A
HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>] and on
this rock I will build my
church, and the gates of Hades[<A
HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not
overcome it. >>
You need to tell us what real term he was using and what it meant at the
time, because "church" was not the word. Was it more like temple or like
fellowship or like dynasty or legacy or what?
Sandra
<< Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter,[<A
HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_1">1</A>] and on
this rock I will build my
church, and the gates of Hades[<A
HREF="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/#footnote_117158154_2">2</A>] will not
overcome it. >>
You need to tell us what real term he was using and what it meant at the
time, because "church" was not the word. Was it more like temple or like
fellowship or like dynasty or legacy or what?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/27/2003 4:50:43 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
assemble, not temples. The buildings were called basilicas, and in the Roman
world they were used as indoor marketplaces (like malls) and places for civil
functions (like magistrates holding court). Temples were shrines of a deity
and tended to be small. They would not have been suitable for a large
congregation. Basilicas were not shrines of the Christian God but houses of
the church (ekklesia = the assembly called out of the world). These
buildings came to be called "church" (i.e. assembly) only because of the
association with the assembly held in them.
age, required the baptized to give up certain professions that compromised
the ethical standards of Christianity. This is why some people, who occupied
military or civil offices, became catechumens but waited until they were near
death to be baptized. It wasn't a death-bed conversion as much as a
recognition that Christianity stood for something that these converts weren't
in a position to personally embody.
As for the popularity oif Mithraism, it was one of a dozen or more mystery
cults with their orientalisms that so fascinated 3rd and 4th century Greeks
and Romans. Not too different than "New Age" religions today. One would
have to question their staying power with or without the rapid spread of
Christianity in the 4th and 5th centuries. As for being one of the world's
largest religions, remember that the rise and spread of Islam owed little to
Christianity, other than bumping into it in the Mediterranean world.
Frank and Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> <<Actually, Constantine provided Christians with public buildings in which to
> Constantine decided that it would be nice to give Christians (who
> were meeting in homes) temples like the pagans had. That's where the
> whole concept of church buildings and formal services came from. >>
assemble, not temples. The buildings were called basilicas, and in the Roman
world they were used as indoor marketplaces (like malls) and places for civil
functions (like magistrates holding court). Temples were shrines of a deity
and tended to be small. They would not have been suitable for a large
congregation. Basilicas were not shrines of the Christian God but houses of
the church (ekklesia = the assembly called out of the world). These
buildings came to be called "church" (i.e. assembly) only because of the
association with the assembly held in them.
>Early Christian practice, which was in transition during the Constantinian
> Constantine made a lot of choices that dictated the fate of mainstream
> christianity.
> The doctrine he liked was the one that said once you convert to
> Christianity
> you were forgiven of any and all wrongdoing. So he killed a LOT of people
> and
> did horrid things his whole life and then converted on his deathbed. Nice
> guy.
> Mithraism would very possibly be largest world religion today had it not
> been
> for Constantine.
>
>
age, required the baptized to give up certain professions that compromised
the ethical standards of Christianity. This is why some people, who occupied
military or civil offices, became catechumens but waited until they were near
death to be baptized. It wasn't a death-bed conversion as much as a
recognition that Christianity stood for something that these converts weren't
in a position to personally embody.
As for the popularity oif Mithraism, it was one of a dozen or more mystery
cults with their orientalisms that so fascinated 3rd and 4th century Greeks
and Romans. Not too different than "New Age" religions today. One would
have to question their staying power with or without the rapid spread of
Christianity in the 4th and 5th centuries. As for being one of the world's
largest religions, remember that the rise and spread of Islam owed little to
Christianity, other than bumping into it in the Mediterranean world.
Frank and Mary
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
Has anyone read Pope Joan? It is fiction about a woman who disguised
herself as a man and became Pope. At the end of the book, the author talks
of evidence to support the possibility of their having been a female pope.
Very interesting.
Mary Ellen
----- snip-----> A fascinating book about pre-judeo religions and the
melding that went on
herself as a man and became Pope. At the end of the book, the author talks
of evidence to support the possibility of their having been a female pope.
Very interesting.
Mary Ellen
----- snip-----> A fascinating book about pre-judeo religions and the
melding that went on
> with the incursion of the northern 'barbarian' religion is Merlin Stone'sputs
> <When God was a Woman.> I don't know that I'd believe all of what she
> forward, sociologically, but it's an interesting read and makes some
> fascinating connections.
zenmomma *
>>>As for the popularity oif Mithraism, it was one of a dozen or moreWhat makes one belief system a cult? How do we determine cult vs. valid
>>>mystery
>cults with their orientalisms that so fascinated 3rd and 4th century Greeks
>and Romans. Not too different than "New Age" religions today.>>
belief system?
Life is good.
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."
~ Thich Nhat Hanh
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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sablehs
zenmomma * <zenmomma@...> wrote:
belief system?
~
My thoughts exactly. It very much depends on where you stand.
Tracy
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>As for the popularity oif Mithraism, it was one of a dozen or moreWhat makes one belief system a cult? How do we determine cult vs. valid
>>>mystery
>cults with their orientalisms that so fascinated 3rd and 4th century Greeks
>and Romans. Not too different than "New Age" religions today.>>
belief system?
~
My thoughts exactly. It very much depends on where you stand.
Tracy
---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
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coyote's corner
Ive always heard that there was a female pope. This bears more
investigation.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: nellebelle [mailto:nellebelle@...]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] christianity
Has anyone read Pope Joan? It is fiction about a woman who disguised
herself as a man and became Pope. At the end of the book, the author talks
of evidence to support the possibility of their having been a female pope.
Very interesting.
Mary Ellen
----- snip-----> A fascinating book about pre-judeo religions and the
melding that went on
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245454.2994395.4323962.2848451/D=egroupweb/S=17050819
72:HM/A=1457557/R=0/*http://paperl.com/clk/kunmaijiryukebyoshishin>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
investigation.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: nellebelle [mailto:nellebelle@...]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] christianity
Has anyone read Pope Joan? It is fiction about a woman who disguised
herself as a man and became Pope. At the end of the book, the author talks
of evidence to support the possibility of their having been a female pope.
Very interesting.
Mary Ellen
----- snip-----> A fascinating book about pre-judeo religions and the
melding that went on
> with the incursion of the northern 'barbarian' religion is Merlin Stone'sputs
> <When God was a Woman.> I don't know that I'd believe all of what she
> forward, sociologically, but it's an interesting read and makes someYahoo! Groups Sponsor
> fascinating connections.
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245454.2994395.4323962.2848451/D=egroupweb/S=17050819
72:HM/A=1457557/R=0/*http://paperl.com/clk/kunmaijiryukebyoshishin>
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sablehs
I saw something about it on the History channel. Not much to support it though..
few links:
http://www.historyhouse.com/in_history/joan/
http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/abt.history/history_womenshistory;svc=;site=womenshistory;a=;kw=;chan=history;syn=about;pos=slot1;sz=468x60;ord=10.626967916648346
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/doubleissue/mysteries/pope.htm
http://www.sexscrolls.net/pope.html
coyote's corner <jana@...> wrote:I�ve always heard that there was a female pope. This bears more
investigation.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: nellebelle [mailto:nellebelle@...]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] christianity
Has anyone read Pope Joan? It is fiction about a woman who disguised
herself as a man and became Pope. At the end of the book, the author talks
of evidence to support the possibility of their having been a female pope.
Very interesting.
Mary Ellen
----- snip-----> A fascinating book about pre-judeo religions and the
melding that went on
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245454.2994395.4323962.2848451/D=egroupweb/S=17050819
72:HM/A=1457557/R=0/*http://paperl.com/clk/kunmaijiryukebyoshishin>
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Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
few links:
http://www.historyhouse.com/in_history/joan/
http://ad.doubleclick.net/adi/abt.history/history_womenshistory;svc=;site=womenshistory;a=;kw=;chan=history;syn=about;pos=slot1;sz=468x60;ord=10.626967916648346
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/doubleissue/mysteries/pope.htm
http://www.sexscrolls.net/pope.html
coyote's corner <jana@...> wrote:I�ve always heard that there was a female pope. This bears more
investigation.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: nellebelle [mailto:nellebelle@...]
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] christianity
Has anyone read Pope Joan? It is fiction about a woman who disguised
herself as a man and became Pope. At the end of the book, the author talks
of evidence to support the possibility of their having been a female pope.
Very interesting.
Mary Ellen
----- snip-----> A fascinating book about pre-judeo religions and the
melding that went on
> with the incursion of the northern 'barbarian' religion is Merlin Stone'sputs
> <When God was a Woman.> I don't know that I'd believe all of what she
> forward, sociologically, but it's an interesting read and makes someYahoo! Groups Sponsor
> fascinating connections.
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245454.2994395.4323962.2848451/D=egroupweb/S=17050819
72:HM/A=1457557/R=0/*http://paperl.com/clk/kunmaijiryukebyoshishin>
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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