Deb

> Maybe she doesn't really have a good grasp of what the word "math" means. It
> might seem foreign and mysterious to her. Or she's heard from other kids or
> on TV that math is hard and to be avoided.
>
> Life is good.
> ~Mary


That's a good point - not knowing what the word means can sure make
someone feel they cannot deal with it.

Mathematics (dictionary definition): The knowledge and skill of using
numbers and symbols to describe and deal with amounts, measurements and
shapes and the relationships between these. It is a group of sciences
that include arithmetic, geometry, algebra and calculus [and others for
higher math]. Derivation >Greek for "something learned."
In England and many former British colonies, the term used is maths with
an 's' rather than math because it is recognized that it is made up of
several branches.

Do you know what arithmetic is as opposed to mathematics?
Arithmetic actually means the skills of using numbers to count, add,
subtract, multiply and divide, and these operations are done with whole
numbers, fractions, decimals and percents. It is pretty interesting
that the first thing you do when finding out about fractions is to COUNT
with them. In the old 1800's school books, they actually did exercises
to count aloud 1/4, 2/4 (or 1/2), 3/4, 4/4 (or 1), 5/4 (or 1 1/4), etc
to get the feel for the whole continuum of number and where fractions
fit in. OF course you can do that with portions of a chocolate bar or
other concrete things.

My own formulated purpose for mathematics: Tools and a language to think
about and communicate with precision in solving problems of interest in
life. Math is used to put order into the universe to be able to handle
it more easily and efficiently.

Actually an underlying thought of that came from someone else: "
Mathematics is just a nice big beautiful term for precise thinking ...".
L. Ron Hubbard Also by Hubbard: "... [the mind] perceives, poses, and
resolves problems relating to the survival of the organism, the future
generations, the group, life and the physical universe and puts the
solutions into action."


Way useful stuff, mathematics. If you are dealing with the physical
universe. I always try to expand my own use of math in life -- look
where it has taken us: computers, space flights, buildings, etc - you
can get a complex product when you can do math!

AT a level in between measuring stuff in cooking and operating space
flights is this fun question: "How many Ping-Pong balls do you think
would fit inside this room?" Quite a question for speculation.... THis
is from a book called "Family Learning" by William Russell, who then
goes on to describe guessing what it would be, and trying to figure out
what a real ball park estimate would be, and finally devising a way to
figure it out by seeing how many Ping-Pong balls would fit along the
bottom of one wall (which could be done by measuring across the ball and
then measuring the distance of the wall and seeing how many would fit
there), then seeing how many Ping-Pong balls would fit along the side
wall to that one, and then finally how many would fit up the wall in
the corner between the floor and calling. Hmm... that is three
measurements, the measure of three dimensions.... giving you voila! the
volume of space in the room calculated in Ping-Pong balls. I really
laughed when I read that one and immediately wanted to go off and try
it. Family learning is a delightful book covering all kinds of ideas,
not just math. i like it! Hmm.. I'm going to add it to my website of
recommendations.


Debbie
Live Oak Academy
Visit our website http://www.newhealth.net/liveoak/
~Flexible Alternative Schooling for Families~

[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/2002 10:02:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
herbtea@... writes:


> Actually an underlying thought of that came from someone else: "
> Mathematics is just a nice big beautiful term for precise thinking ...".

Except for "fuzzy logic," of course <BEG>

I like the term "numeracy" or "numerate" --- the ability to think and
communicate quantitatively.

--pamS

National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!


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[email protected]

In a message dated 8/6/02 11:02:22 PM, herbtea@... writes:

<< Hmm... that is three
measurements, the measure of three dimensions.... giving you voila! the
volume of space in the room calculated in Ping-Pong balls. >>

That would work if they were cubes, but won't a sphere fit down in the space
left by four spheres together (on one plane, I mean) and shouldn't you get
more ping-pong balls into a space than you would same-size cubes?

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/03 3:50:04 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< I have always had a fear of math. I realized that this was not going to be
helpful to my kids so I have been rediscovering math and it has been
FANTASTIC! Now the house is full of puzzles and pattern blocks and
interesting math books, that I am enjoying! Now that my fear has gone, I
feel completely free to let my kids discover math their own way and in their
own time because they will without all the hang ups and fear of failing.
You can't trust when you are full of fear. >>

This was SO great to read Julie!!
Thanks for sharing that.
I am still finding the joy in math...slowly but surely I'm undoing some
serious damage.
I bought "I hate mathematics" last week and have had some fun with that!
Cool story.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/2003 10:47:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:

> I bought "I hate mathematics" last week and have had some fun with that!
>

Oh, tell me more about that book, maybe it would be good for Cait! She
doesn't mind the reading, well really enjoys it. Maybe all it is going to
take is a spark to make her WANT to learn more about math. I hope so anyway.

glena


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[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/2003 11:26:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> Maybe all it is going to
> take is a spark to make her WANT to learn more about math. I hope so
> anyway.

Glena, That's pushing YOUR wants onto HER.

Get the book. Place it on the coffee table or in the bathroom. If she picks
it up, great. If she doesn't, she's not interested enough to learn it.

~Kelly


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[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/2003 11:55:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

> Glena, That's pushing YOUR wants onto HER.
>
> Get the book. Place it on the coffee table or in the bathroom. If she picks
>
> it up, great. If she doesn't, she's not interested enough to learn it.
>

Good Lord, I was only asking for the name/place to find the book, I'm not
about to demand she read it and implement anything in it. Just trying to be
a good mother and find resources she might not ever find on her own and place
them within her reach.



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Mary

From: <rubyprincesstsg@...>

<<Good Lord, I was only asking for the name/place to find the book, I'm not
about to demand she read it and implement anything in it. Just trying to be
a good mother and find resources she might not ever find on her own and
place
them within her reach.>>


But she doesn't WANT math now. I say put the title of the book in a safe
place. I wouldn't even buy it now. She wants nothing to do with math so why
buy it for her to spark an interest? The interest isn't there and it will
only be sparked by her. Forget about math and let her be 14.

Mary B

Tim and Maureen

----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] math phobia


In a message dated 4/7/2003 11:26:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> Maybe all it is going to
> take is a spark to make her WANT to learn more about math. I hope so
> anyway.

Glena, That's pushing YOUR wants onto HER.

Get the book. Place it on the coffee table or in the bathroom. If she picks
it up, great. If she doesn't, she's not interested enough to learn it.

~Kelly

I agree with Kelly. She will do math when and if she needs to and if she doesn't do it then she is not ready to explore the medical school thing.I have repeatedly seen my children leave things and then go to them when they want to. If I am hoping, thinking, wanting, slipping suggestions, hints anything it will not happen.Medical school is not about you. It is about her. You would still be a good enough parent even if she does not become a doctor. And if she disappoints herself it is her right to not yours
maureen
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[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/03 11:20:33 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Oh, tell me more about that book, maybe it would be good for Cait! She
doesn't mind the reading, well really enjoys it. Maybe all it is going to
take is a spark to make her WANT to learn more about math. I hope so
anyway. >>

It's a way to play with math concepts. It's games and playing with concepts
in fun ways.
But if you are bent on trying to get her to want something, you're going
about it all wrong.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

Tia Leschke

> I agree with Kelly. She will do math when and if she needs to and if she
doesn't do it then she is not ready to explore the medical school thing.

Besides which, all of high school math can be learned in a few weeks to a
few months by someone who is motivated and hasn't been given a math phobia.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/2003 4:47:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, leschke@...
writes:

> Besides which, all of high school math can be learned in a few weeks to a
> few months by someone who is motivated and hasn't been given a math phobia

That is GREAT to know. I really just "did it" in high school and college
only because I had to and that was that, just something else that someone
said HAD to be done.

I want so much more for Cait, and you know I think I mostly remember
"learning" what I needed for the next test probably the night before and not
a minute sooner.

Thank you for being so kind to help me understand this!

glena


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Kelly Lenhart

>> Besides which, all of high school math can be learned in a few weeks to a
>> few months by someone who is motivated and hasn't been given a math
phobia
>That is GREAT to know. I really just "did it" in high school and college
>only because I had to and that was that, just something else that someone
>said HAD to be done.


Glenna,

I've never had problems in math, I LOVE IT. But in college I had to take
"algebra/trig" even though I already know much of it. Literally I sat down
and over the course of three days did all the homework. Got a solid B on
the final. Because of the rules at my university, that meant I got a C in
the class. Without ever attending a single lecture or taking the midterm.

So here is another voice saying "advanced" math can be learned quickly and
with no pain when someone is ready for it.

Kelly

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/2003 10:58:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mina@...
writes:

> So here is another voice saying "advanced" math can be learned quickly and
> with no pain when someone is ready for it.
>
> Kelly
>

Ok, I just have to say that all of these posts about the math have so helped
ME over the last couple of days. I didn't want to have to say, hey let's do
some math! And now I don't have to!!! That's a great relief to me. I
thought I was getting to the point (and I think I know how I got there) that
I was going to be more "suggestful" to Cait than I ever want to be about
learning anything.

I KNEW it was my problem and I didn't share it with her but I needed to make
sure I wasn't failing her after listening to of all people... a high school
principal who told me math really needs to be developed layer after layer,
year after year and that I really should start introducing it to Cait. I
should have just thought about my own experiences and figured out that Cait
is much smarter than I am and if I could just "do it" the night before the
test, she surely could do much better than myself.

Thanks again for all the helpful "thinking out loud" that you've helped me
do. It is such a stress from me to just be able to leave math alone just
like everything else she learns, in her own time.

glena


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Gary m and Mary Anne Taylor

Hi,
Hope I got the subject line right-not very good at this yet. This is for the woman with a daughter, Cait, who wants to become a doctor (Glena?).
Someone mentioned the trouble doctors have with managed care, etc, I believe. Heard some of a good radio program on this not long ago on NPR. The site to listen to the program is <http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jtml?wfID=9837037 . It's called 'physician satisfaction'. In case you can't get there from the site I gave you, e-mail me privately and I will send you the link. Don't know if I'm supposed to send that to the whole list.
In addition, I wonder what there is for her to explore around sites for 'emotional support' types of issues in the medical field. My dd 14 is interested in becoming 'a therapist'. Of course, as stated, this may change. But now you guys have me wondering about activities or reading pertaining to that. If I find anything that sounds good, I'll pass it along to you and Cait. Maybe if that's what interests her about becoming a MD, that's where to start?
Also thanks to all for the discussions about how to google things and computer games and resources. This has really helped me find information and become less dependent on thinking one has to take a class in something to learn it. I think that lack of confidence is one of my major hurdles in trying to unschool.
Funny story about computers- was doing a newsletter for a nonprofit and the person doing it previously gave me it on disc. I didn't have that program at home so took it to the library, but then couldn't figure out how to work it. Asked the reference librarians, they didn't know. The (homeless looking?) man at the computer next to me asked if I needed help, guided me through the whole thing, and I was grateful to him. In the middle of that, the librarian states one of their rules is that 'patrons' are not allowed to help each other on the computers. I said, well, do you know how to do it? (nicely), and she replied 'no'. So the man and I ignored that, and I finished the newsletter.
What a stupid rule, reminds me of school....
Mary T. in California
PS to Pam (the math one) I will be seeing you in August at the conference!!!!!


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kayb85

"> Funny story about computers- was doing a newsletter for a
nonprofit and the person doing it previously gave me it on disc. "

Our library doesn't allow you to bring a disc from home and use it on
their computer. They're afraid of viruses I guess.

"I didn't have that program at home so took it to the library, but
then couldn't figure out how to work it. Asked the reference
librarians, they didn't know. The (homeless looking?) man at the
computer next to me asked if I needed help, guided me through the
whole thing, and I was grateful to him. In the middle of that, the
librarian states one of their rules is that 'patrons' are not allowed
to help each other on the computers. "

What? Sometimes I wonder where these libraries come up with these
ridiculous rules!!!


"I said, well, do you know how to do it? (nicely), and she
replied 'no'. So the man and I ignored that, and I finished the
newsletter. "

Good for you! It's always nice to see people have the courage to
ignore stupid rules. We pay for those libraries with our tax
dollars and shouldn't have to put up with stupid rules like "patrons
can't help each other". They'll probably have a sign up by the
computers next time you go in though.


I have a friend who confronted her librarians because they are always
so miserable. She said that it would be nice if they would at least
greet the kids and smile at them instead of acting like they wished
they weren't there. She was told that it's not in their job
description to make a fuss over every kid who walks through the
doors. They were asking for donations for the library at the time,
and she suggested a fund raiser. "Pay a dollar to see a librarian
smile". I think a lot of people who visit that library would pay a
dollar to see it!

Sheila

Tia Leschke

> I have a friend who confronted her librarians because they are always
> so miserable. She said that it would be nice if they would at least
> greet the kids and smile at them instead of acting like they wished
> they weren't there. She was told that it's not in their job
> description to make a fuss over every kid who walks through the
> doors. They were asking for donations for the library at the time,
> and she suggested a fund raiser. "Pay a dollar to see a librarian
> smile". I think a lot of people who visit that library would pay a
> dollar to see it!

I'd go over their heads to complain if they were that unpleasant. Luckily,
our library workers are just great, so I don't have to.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/13/2003 2:22:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
berybrit@... writes:

> Hope I got the subject line right-not very good at this yet. This is for the
> woman with a daughter, Cait, who wants to become a doctor (Glena?).
> Someone mentioned the trouble doctors have with managed care, etc, I
> believe. Heard some of a good radio program on this not long ago on NPR.
> The site to listen to the program is <
> http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jtml?wfID=9837037 . It's called
> 'physician satisfaction'. In case you can't get there from the site I gave
> you, e-mail me privately and I will send you the link. Don't know if I'm
> supposed to send that to the whole list.
>

Mary, thanks for the link, I sent it along to Cait. She has found lots of
use from different sites recommended by those here.

Thanks to each of you for your input.
glena


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