Schools being "better than home"
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On Mon, 5 Aug 2002 00:02:21 -0500 <llindsey3@...> writes:
for kids, instead of being glad that they're sending their kids to school
(which is perhaps only marginally better)?
I don't like the idea that school are fine for "those kids" but not for
my children, or yours. Just imagine if we could spend all the money now
spent on schools on programs that truly made life better for kids who
needed it....
It's kind of like saying I'm glad we have huge housing projects, because
even though the kids living there may have no hot water or heat and have
roaches everywhere, at least they're not homeless. And then you can be
complacent...
Dar
> schools are better than home for a LOT of kids... too many kids findWhy don't we try to help families make their homes safe and stable places
> more stability and safety there than in their own homes and i am
> glad they have schools to go to..
for kids, instead of being glad that they're sending their kids to school
(which is perhaps only marginally better)?
I don't like the idea that school are fine for "those kids" but not for
my children, or yours. Just imagine if we could spend all the money now
spent on schools on programs that truly made life better for kids who
needed it....
It's kind of like saying I'm glad we have huge housing projects, because
even though the kids living there may have no hot water or heat and have
roaches everywhere, at least they're not homeless. And then you can be
complacent...
Dar
[email protected]
well, i dont know about you, but i spent a long time last year in a district where this is very true.. in some very poor neighborhoods where the parents are very uneducated..
i too, think that much much more energy should be spent on this.. but there is not quick fix.. .. and there will always be need for safe places for children.. that is just a fact.. humans are never perfect and there are always all kinds of them.. with all kinds of ideas of how to treat kids and what is right adn wrong etc etc..
i mean, if i was queen of everything and everyone would do what i said, i have some ideas.. but shit.. theres no way to change the entire way of centuries of thinking very quickly.. cultures change slowly and for many different reasons.. doing what we are doing now is one of the steps.. we are working to strengthen our own convictions and let others know when possible what works and what doesn't .. but we cannot wipe out child abuse .. until human evolution takes another big step perhaps..
L
i too, think that much much more energy should be spent on this.. but there is not quick fix.. .. and there will always be need for safe places for children.. that is just a fact.. humans are never perfect and there are always all kinds of them.. with all kinds of ideas of how to treat kids and what is right adn wrong etc etc..
i mean, if i was queen of everything and everyone would do what i said, i have some ideas.. but shit.. theres no way to change the entire way of centuries of thinking very quickly.. cultures change slowly and for many different reasons.. doing what we are doing now is one of the steps.. we are working to strengthen our own convictions and let others know when possible what works and what doesn't .. but we cannot wipe out child abuse .. until human evolution takes another big step perhaps..
L
----- Original Message -----
From: freeform@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 12:20 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Schools being "better than home"
On Mon, 5 Aug 2002 00:02:21 -0500 <llindsey3@...> writes:
> schools are better than home for a LOT of kids... too many kids find
> more stability and safety there than in their own homes and i am
> glad they have schools to go to..
Why don't we try to help families make their homes safe and stable places
for kids, instead of being glad that they're sending their kids to school
(which is perhaps only marginally better)?
I don't like the idea that school are fine for "those kids" but not for
my children, or yours. Just imagine if we could spend all the money now
spent on schools on programs that truly made life better for kids who
needed it....
It's kind of like saying I'm glad we have huge housing projects, because
even though the kids living there may have no hot water or heat and have
roaches everywhere, at least they're not homeless. And then you can be
complacent...
Dar
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In a message dated 8/4/02 11:26:03 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< Why don't we try to help families make their homes safe and stable places
for kids, instead of being glad that they're sending their kids to school
(which is perhaps only marginally better)? >>
You can try.
I'm having enough to do with my own family and just helping people unschool.
I would have chosen school over unschooling as a kid, given my own real-life
mom.
School was good for me. And even if there had been a homeschooling option,
school would have been good for me.
<<Just imagine if we could spend all the money now
spent on schools on programs that truly made life better for kids who
needed it....>>
It's already spread thin enough at school.
<<It's kind of like saying I'm glad we have huge housing projects, because
even though the kids living there may have no hot water or heat and have
roaches everywhere, at least they're not homeless. And then you can be
complacent...>>
They built low-income apartments in my neighborhood when I was a kid. Some
families moved out of two room adobe houses with wood stoves and outhouses
(late 1960's) and no electrical outlets except in hanging light fixtures,
into two bedroom apartments with heat, bathtubs, showers, flush toilets,
washers and dryers!! Instead of having a laundry room, each apartment had a
washer and a dryer. For a few months. Those who didn't sell their own had
them stolen and sold by their neighbors.
If a chid has alcoholic or drug-abusing parents in a ratty hovel, taking the
drunk/druggie problem with them to a better apartment doesn't help.
And those who are NOT abusers (of substances or people) are surrounded in the
new place by those who are.
Sandra
<< Why don't we try to help families make their homes safe and stable places
for kids, instead of being glad that they're sending their kids to school
(which is perhaps only marginally better)? >>
You can try.
I'm having enough to do with my own family and just helping people unschool.
I would have chosen school over unschooling as a kid, given my own real-life
mom.
School was good for me. And even if there had been a homeschooling option,
school would have been good for me.
<<Just imagine if we could spend all the money now
spent on schools on programs that truly made life better for kids who
needed it....>>
It's already spread thin enough at school.
<<It's kind of like saying I'm glad we have huge housing projects, because
even though the kids living there may have no hot water or heat and have
roaches everywhere, at least they're not homeless. And then you can be
complacent...>>
They built low-income apartments in my neighborhood when I was a kid. Some
families moved out of two room adobe houses with wood stoves and outhouses
(late 1960's) and no electrical outlets except in hanging light fixtures,
into two bedroom apartments with heat, bathtubs, showers, flush toilets,
washers and dryers!! Instead of having a laundry room, each apartment had a
washer and a dryer. For a few months. Those who didn't sell their own had
them stolen and sold by their neighbors.
If a chid has alcoholic or drug-abusing parents in a ratty hovel, taking the
drunk/druggie problem with them to a better apartment doesn't help.
And those who are NOT abusers (of substances or people) are surrounded in the
new place by those who are.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/5/02 7:37:37 AM, SandraDodd@... writes:
<< If a chid has alcoholic or drug-abusing parents in a ratty hovel, taking
the
drunk/druggie problem with them to a better apartment doesn't help.
But it doesn't solve the parents' real problem.
But if a kid is the victim of parents whose habits are more important to them
than their kids are (and addictions have a way of doing that), at least maybe
the kid can have a bath and plug in a radio (not at the same moment) while
he's waiting to grow up.
Sandra
<< If a chid has alcoholic or drug-abusing parents in a ratty hovel, taking
the
drunk/druggie problem with them to a better apartment doesn't help.
>>What am I saying!? Yes it helps the kids some.
But it doesn't solve the parents' real problem.
But if a kid is the victim of parents whose habits are more important to them
than their kids are (and addictions have a way of doing that), at least maybe
the kid can have a bath and plug in a radio (not at the same moment) while
he's waiting to grow up.
Sandra
kayb85
> I would have chosen school over unschooling as a kid, given my ownreal-life
> mom.option,
> School was good for me. And even if there had been a homeschooling
> school would have been good for me.My biggest problem with public schooling is that it's compulsory. My
second biggest problem is that it's paid for by tax dollars. But if
we must use social programs to solve the problem of bad parenting,
why make it school? Why not just have a place where kids can get 3
hot meals a day if they WANT to, go play with educational toys and
games (or even toys that wouldn't be labeled as "educational!" if
they WANT to, have a cool staffed playground available for kids who
WANT to be there. Have adults available to answer questions for kids
who WANT to ask them. Maybe even a few OPTIONAL classes available
for older kids who WANT to sign up for them.
But that wouldn't ever happen because there are always strings
attached to government money, and those are always strings of control.
Anyone who hasn't read any of John Taylor Gatto's books, I highly
recommend them!
Sheila
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/5/02 8:53:53 AM, sheran@... writes:
<< My biggest problem with public schooling is that it's compulsory. My
second biggest problem is that it's paid for by tax dollars. But if
we must use social programs to solve the problem of bad parenting,
why make it school? Why not just have a place where kids can get 3
hot meals a day if they WANT to, go play with educational toys and
games (or even toys that wouldn't be labeled as "educational!" if
they WANT to, have a cool staffed playground available for kids who
WANT to be there. Have adults available to answer questions for kids
who WANT to ask them. Maybe even a few OPTIONAL classes available
for older kids who WANT to sign up for them. >>
If it weren't compulsory lots of those theoretical or real bad parents
wouldn't LET their kids go. If the kids just wanted to go the parents would
say no. Because lots of parents think saying no is being a good parent.
Sandra
<< My biggest problem with public schooling is that it's compulsory. My
second biggest problem is that it's paid for by tax dollars. But if
we must use social programs to solve the problem of bad parenting,
why make it school? Why not just have a place where kids can get 3
hot meals a day if they WANT to, go play with educational toys and
games (or even toys that wouldn't be labeled as "educational!" if
they WANT to, have a cool staffed playground available for kids who
WANT to be there. Have adults available to answer questions for kids
who WANT to ask them. Maybe even a few OPTIONAL classes available
for older kids who WANT to sign up for them. >>
If it weren't compulsory lots of those theoretical or real bad parents
wouldn't LET their kids go. If the kids just wanted to go the parents would
say no. Because lots of parents think saying no is being a good parent.
Sandra