damned proud of this'n'that
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/4/02 4:39:45 PM, DMM5692@... writes:
<< yes i have abandonment issues.
yes im sensitive! AND DAMN PROUD OF IT!!!!!! >>
You're free to revel in your oversensitivity, but it's not so good for the
kids to pass those frustrations on.
<<i havent learned anythign on this list in 2-3 days.......>>
Was there a hurry? Check www.unschooling.com if you have a quick need to
read about unschooling.
<<i wnat to echange ideas.i dont want to tell someone i ve done somethign
that WORKED HERE to be told NO ITS NOT UNSCHOOLING>>>>
Lots of things work that aren't unschooling.
Unschooling doesn't work as well when other things are called unschooling
which aren't.
Sandra
<< yes i have abandonment issues.
yes im sensitive! AND DAMN PROUD OF IT!!!!!! >>
You're free to revel in your oversensitivity, but it's not so good for the
kids to pass those frustrations on.
<<i havent learned anythign on this list in 2-3 days.......>>
Was there a hurry? Check www.unschooling.com if you have a quick need to
read about unschooling.
<<i wnat to echange ideas.i dont want to tell someone i ve done somethign
that WORKED HERE to be told NO ITS NOT UNSCHOOLING>>>>
Lots of things work that aren't unschooling.
Unschooling doesn't work as well when other things are called unschooling
which aren't.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/4/2002 7:29:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
from one person to another, that it DOES work -- when people just call
whatever they do unschooling. There are things that are so obviously NOT
unschooling that it would be really confusing to let descriptions of them AS
unschooling just sit there.
To get back to phonics -- what Ned posted about kids having to learn phonics
"sounded" like not-unschooling to me and to others and we pointed that out.
As I said before, it seemed inconsistent and misleading - I meant relative to
all the other great unschooling stuff that Luz and Ned have written. To pass
along the idea that the only way kids can learn to read is by learning
phonics is going to make people think that they are going to mess up their
kids if they don't somehow "do" a phonics program. But, then what Ned posted
in response to the "Can you teach me to read?" question was not at all about
forcing a phonics program down a kid's throat - it was about gently providing
a bit of information about how sounds and letters work in response to a kid's
direct question and waiting to let the child take the lead on what he wants
to do with that information. It was much more like what I'd expect from the
unschoolers that I know Ned and Luz to be.
So - my complaint, Ned, if you're interested - is that you may be vastly
underestimating how very anxious people are about their young kids and
reading and how they will "hear" you when you say that kids have to learn
phonics to learn to read. I think they'll hear that as: "Your kid will NOT
learn to read in a comfortable, relaxed, child-controlled/parent-facilitated,
idiosyncratic way that can develop solely out of being observant, aware, and
responsive parents without any formal, systematic, preplanned,
parent-directed program." I think it sounds to people like you are saying
that unschooling will not WORK with reading. Hence, all the responses about
all the kids who DID learn to read in unschooling families - no phonics
program or any OTHER kind of program, just supportive and responsive parents
paying attention to their own kids and helping them out.
These days, "phonics" is not just "learning to sound out words" but is
synonymous, in most people's minds, with some kind of "teach-a-kid-to-read"
program - maybe thanks to the ubiquitous "Hooked on Phonics" and "The Reading
Game" and "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons" and "Reading Reflex"
and so on.
Unschooling parents being responsive to their kid will notice when he/she
seems interested in the sounds of letters and are likely to give them some
help in their efforts. It doesn't ALWAYS come from the parents, of course. My
middle child, at 3 years old, apparently spent about 3 weeks nagging her poor
older sister while they "read" in their beds at night, "What does THIS say?
P-O-P. What does THIS say? "H-O-P"" and so on - until she'd figured out the
sounds of the letters all by herself and could, seemingly by magic, read. I
didn't expect it, of course, and never saw it coming. A neighbor down the
street told me that Roxana could read - I didn't even KNOW it.
Anyway - Ned - you might want to have a look at what you sent originally and
see why everyone reacted as if it was anti-unschooling advice. I'm sure that,
to you, what you answered in regard to the "I want to learn to read" question
and what you wrote in that first post sounded the same - but they gave me a
very different sense of what you were suggesting.
--pam
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Unschooling doesn't work as well when other things are called unschoolingWell - it WORKS just as well -- it is just a whole lot harder to pass on,
> which aren't.
from one person to another, that it DOES work -- when people just call
whatever they do unschooling. There are things that are so obviously NOT
unschooling that it would be really confusing to let descriptions of them AS
unschooling just sit there.
To get back to phonics -- what Ned posted about kids having to learn phonics
"sounded" like not-unschooling to me and to others and we pointed that out.
As I said before, it seemed inconsistent and misleading - I meant relative to
all the other great unschooling stuff that Luz and Ned have written. To pass
along the idea that the only way kids can learn to read is by learning
phonics is going to make people think that they are going to mess up their
kids if they don't somehow "do" a phonics program. But, then what Ned posted
in response to the "Can you teach me to read?" question was not at all about
forcing a phonics program down a kid's throat - it was about gently providing
a bit of information about how sounds and letters work in response to a kid's
direct question and waiting to let the child take the lead on what he wants
to do with that information. It was much more like what I'd expect from the
unschoolers that I know Ned and Luz to be.
So - my complaint, Ned, if you're interested - is that you may be vastly
underestimating how very anxious people are about their young kids and
reading and how they will "hear" you when you say that kids have to learn
phonics to learn to read. I think they'll hear that as: "Your kid will NOT
learn to read in a comfortable, relaxed, child-controlled/parent-facilitated,
idiosyncratic way that can develop solely out of being observant, aware, and
responsive parents without any formal, systematic, preplanned,
parent-directed program." I think it sounds to people like you are saying
that unschooling will not WORK with reading. Hence, all the responses about
all the kids who DID learn to read in unschooling families - no phonics
program or any OTHER kind of program, just supportive and responsive parents
paying attention to their own kids and helping them out.
These days, "phonics" is not just "learning to sound out words" but is
synonymous, in most people's minds, with some kind of "teach-a-kid-to-read"
program - maybe thanks to the ubiquitous "Hooked on Phonics" and "The Reading
Game" and "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons" and "Reading Reflex"
and so on.
Unschooling parents being responsive to their kid will notice when he/she
seems interested in the sounds of letters and are likely to give them some
help in their efforts. It doesn't ALWAYS come from the parents, of course. My
middle child, at 3 years old, apparently spent about 3 weeks nagging her poor
older sister while they "read" in their beds at night, "What does THIS say?
P-O-P. What does THIS say? "H-O-P"" and so on - until she'd figured out the
sounds of the letters all by herself and could, seemingly by magic, read. I
didn't expect it, of course, and never saw it coming. A neighbor down the
street told me that Roxana could read - I didn't even KNOW it.
Anyway - Ned - you might want to have a look at what you sent originally and
see why everyone reacted as if it was anti-unschooling advice. I'm sure that,
to you, what you answered in regard to the "I want to learn to read" question
and what you wrote in that first post sounded the same - but they gave me a
very different sense of what you were suggesting.
--pam
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]