more phonics phun
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
Dear Unschoolers:
Several exceptions to the rules of pronunciation have been used in order to
prove that the rules are not valid. That tactic is absurd and misleading. We
are trying to help people learn things, not to inform them that trying to
learn is futile. Despite many exception, our languge is regular. The
exceptions count for a small percentage of all our words. English is
becoming the world's language because it is so regular and it does adapt to
the words of many other languages, precisely because it is a phonetic
language.
Let's look at the examples cited (sighted, sited) and try to see how we can
help. Hey, maybe this group can actually make English even easier to learn
than it already is, using phonics, of course.
The following was posted in Digest 2184, message 2 (also in earlier digest).
I'll try a few changes to make understanding easier. This can be a new
parlor game, or parlance game...
WHY IS THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE SO HARD TO LEARN?
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to
present the present.
8) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
16) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
In phugn, Ned Vare
like my mother told me -- "The p is silent, as in swimming."
Several exceptions to the rules of pronunciation have been used in order to
prove that the rules are not valid. That tactic is absurd and misleading. We
are trying to help people learn things, not to inform them that trying to
learn is futile. Despite many exception, our languge is regular. The
exceptions count for a small percentage of all our words. English is
becoming the world's language because it is so regular and it does adapt to
the words of many other languages, precisely because it is a phonetic
language.
Let's look at the examples cited (sighted, sited) and try to see how we can
help. Hey, maybe this group can actually make English even easier to learn
than it already is, using phonics, of course.
The following was posted in Digest 2184, message 2 (also in earlier digest).
I'll try a few changes to make understanding easier. This can be a new
parlor game, or parlance game...
WHY IS THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE SO HARD TO LEARN?
1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
>> change the second wound to woond2) The farm was used to produce produce.
>> change the second produce to produse or prodeuce, or use betterwriting skill, perhaps saying, "The farm grew produce."
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
>> change the second refuse to refuce or refeuce4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
>> change polish to pollish5) He could lead, if only he would get the lead out.
>> change the second lead to led or ledd6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
>> this one is so crazy that its desert should be to remain in use,so long as anyone is stupid enough to write it as is
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to
present the present.
>> same for this. Sometimes it's enjoyable to explain our language toforeigners. It's a bonding exercise.
8) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
>> change the second dove to dived9) I did not object to the object.
>> change the first object to obgect10) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
>> change the first invalid to invallid11) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
>> change the first row to rhow, and the third row to ro -- like go.12) They were too close to the door to close it.
>> change the first close to cloce13) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
>> He sho duz14) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
>> change the second wind to wynd -- not to be confused with whined15) After a number of injections, my jaw got number.
>> since the b is silent in the second number, leave it out anddouble the mm, as in bummer, and dum and dummer
16) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
>> On what subject?17) I threw the ball through the hoop.
>> I throwed the ball thru the hoop. take your pick18) The cement statue of the deer was dear to my Mother.
>> was it a doe or a buck? Was it cemented to anything?19) The slogan of a bear on the beer bottle was funny.
>> what was funny, the bear or the slogan? It makes me think of themascot for the Pittsburgh Pirates -- a parrot.
In phugn, Ned Vare
like my mother told me -- "The p is silent, as in swimming."
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/2/02 12:05:04 PM, nedvare@... writes:
<< The
exceptions count for a small percentage of all our words. English is
becoming the world's language because it is so regular and it does adapt to
the words of many other languages, precisely because it is a phonetic
language. >>
This is not the reason English is the world's language.
When Latin, Italian and French were the languages of international trade and
politics, in their turns, it was for political reasons, as it is for English
now.
<<That tactic is absurd and misleading. >>
It is not absurd, and it is quite to the point. SAYING something is
misleading when it is not is not the way to make friends or influence people.
We are leading people toward unschooling. You are leading people
(bludgeoning and dragging) toward phonics. We see phonics as something that
kids can pick up naturally. You keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on
saying phonics has to come before reading. You keep on keep on keep on keep
on ignoring what others here are saying DID work and IS working, not what
they think or hope might work.
<<The following was posted in Digest 2184, message 2 (also in earlier digest).
I'll try a few changes to make understanding easier. This can be a new
parlor game, or parlance game...>>
No, it was just joke-dissection in a way that killed all the humor.
<<change the second wind to wynd -- not to be confused with whined>>
Wynd is a common Rennaisance spelling of "wynd" (which blows in the sky)
still appearing in verses and song lyrics commonly found in 2002.
-------
Dear Unschoolers and others,
Phonics is for people of all ages who encounter a word that they have not
seen before. For children starting out in reading, that includes most words.
Phonics allows them to turn printed letters into familiar sounds. When they
do that, they can "hear" the word.
Ned Vare
-----------------
Dear Ned:
We KNOW what phonics means, what involves, why it is used.
We are talking about real life experiences of living, reading people, and a
living, well-read language
You are talking about your personal obsession with an idea, and you're being
insulting and condescending to unschooling parents while you do it.
Sandra
<< The
exceptions count for a small percentage of all our words. English is
becoming the world's language because it is so regular and it does adapt to
the words of many other languages, precisely because it is a phonetic
language. >>
This is not the reason English is the world's language.
When Latin, Italian and French were the languages of international trade and
politics, in their turns, it was for political reasons, as it is for English
now.
<<That tactic is absurd and misleading. >>
It is not absurd, and it is quite to the point. SAYING something is
misleading when it is not is not the way to make friends or influence people.
We are leading people toward unschooling. You are leading people
(bludgeoning and dragging) toward phonics. We see phonics as something that
kids can pick up naturally. You keep on keep on keep on keep on keep on
saying phonics has to come before reading. You keep on keep on keep on keep
on ignoring what others here are saying DID work and IS working, not what
they think or hope might work.
<<The following was posted in Digest 2184, message 2 (also in earlier digest).
I'll try a few changes to make understanding easier. This can be a new
parlor game, or parlance game...>>
No, it was just joke-dissection in a way that killed all the humor.
<<change the second wind to wynd -- not to be confused with whined>>
Wynd is a common Rennaisance spelling of "wynd" (which blows in the sky)
still appearing in verses and song lyrics commonly found in 2002.
-------
Dear Unschoolers and others,
Phonics is for people of all ages who encounter a word that they have not
seen before. For children starting out in reading, that includes most words.
Phonics allows them to turn printed letters into familiar sounds. When they
do that, they can "hear" the word.
Ned Vare
-----------------
Dear Ned:
We KNOW what phonics means, what involves, why it is used.
We are talking about real life experiences of living, reading people, and a
living, well-read language
You are talking about your personal obsession with an idea, and you're being
insulting and condescending to unschooling parents while you do it.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/2/02 1:04:26 PM Central Daylight Time, nedvare@...
writes:
Second, English isn't becoming the world language because it is regular and
adaptable, it is because (as much as it counts) America and other English
speaking Nations are the *super* powers. {Although I believe there is an
invented language that combines English, Japanese, and some others to form
what is called the international business language, but I could be wrong.}
I have, in my short life, met many folks for whom, English is a second, third
(or more) language. In conversations about learning languages with them, many
(but not all) have told me that English is one of the harder languages to
learn precisely because of that *small percentage* of irregular words and
rules for sounds. The foreign exchange student staying with my folks two
years ago stated she had an easier time learning Japanese than English. She
was from Brazil, and English was her third language.
You stated that "exceptions to the rules of pronunciation have been used in
order to prove that the rules are not valid." I doubt anyone here has said,
or intended to say that. What many of us have said is that learning phonics,
while fine for many people, doesn't necessarily have to be the absolute first
step.
helpful in learning the *rules*?
good or correct grammar. How is this helpful? I guess I stand by my original
question of who dissects a joke anyway!
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Dear Unschoolers:First, what I posted was intended as a funny. Who dissects a joke? :o\
>
> Several exceptions to the rules of pronunciation have been used in order to
> prove that the rules are not valid. That tactic is absurd and misleading. We
> are trying to help people learn things, not to inform them that trying to
> learn is futile. Despite many exception, our languge is regular. The
> exceptions count for a small percentage of all our words. English is
> becoming the world's language because it is so regular and it does adapt to
> the words of many other languages, precisely because it is a phonetic
> language.
>
Second, English isn't becoming the world language because it is regular and
adaptable, it is because (as much as it counts) America and other English
speaking Nations are the *super* powers. {Although I believe there is an
invented language that combines English, Japanese, and some others to form
what is called the international business language, but I could be wrong.}
I have, in my short life, met many folks for whom, English is a second, third
(or more) language. In conversations about learning languages with them, many
(but not all) have told me that English is one of the harder languages to
learn precisely because of that *small percentage* of irregular words and
rules for sounds. The foreign exchange student staying with my folks two
years ago stated she had an easier time learning Japanese than English. She
was from Brazil, and English was her third language.
You stated that "exceptions to the rules of pronunciation have been used in
order to prove that the rules are not valid." I doubt anyone here has said,
or intended to say that. What many of us have said is that learning phonics,
while fine for many people, doesn't necessarily have to be the absolute first
step.
>Let's look at the examples cited (sighted, sited) and try to see how we canHow is changing the spelling of the words in some of the examples I used
>help. Hey, maybe this group can actually make English even easier to learn
>than it already is, using phonics, of course.
helpful in learning the *rules*?
>2) The farm was used to produce produce.HUH??
>> change the second produce to produse or prodeuce, or use better
>writing skill, perhaps saying, "The farm grew produce."
>6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
>> this one is so crazy that its desert should be to remain in use,
>so long as anyone is stupid enough to write it as is
>8) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.How is this an example of better writing skills? It isn't even an example of
>> change the second dove to dived
good or correct grammar. How is this helpful? I guess I stand by my original
question of who dissects a joke anyway!
~Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]