Re: 2163, for Leslie
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
To Leslie, and others whose children have been damaged by schools:
You write:
one of ridicule from both teachers as well as
students, and that I should allow him to progress at
his own rate. My gut tells me he needs the closeness
of the family. My family tells me I am being too
protective.<<
It's never too late to heal. It takes time. The first step is to take
children out of the damaging environment. You've done that.
The problem is that the young man has been under the control of, and has
been the victim of people who saw him as flawed, and not as someone who is
gifted in his own ways. They wanted to change him to fit their harmful
oppressive mold. That's what the government schools do. They are wrong, and
their attitude has terrible consequences for children.
The young man needs to begin to take control of his own life. He needs to
feel the power that comes from making one's own decisions, and choosing
one's own activities and goals. My oldest son (32) also learn to play music
by himself -- very well. Only after he quit school was he able to do that.
It is now his profession and his passion.
The main lesson of this egroup, of course, is that school is not only
damaging in many ways, but it is unnecessary.
I strongly agree with you. Your son needs to feel as much support as
possible instead of criticism.
Your family is wrong. Their attitude makes me angry. It is the same as those
who say, "Life is terrible, so put your kids in school where they'll learn
how bad life is and get used to it." From what you say, your family wants
your son to continue to suffer at the hands of people who don't respect him.
WOW.
Unfortunately, families are often the worst people to hang around with.
You have rescued your son from the school; now your job is to protect him
from your family by all means.
Ned Vare
You write:
>>My feelings on the subject are that he needsto heal himself from his long school career which was
one of ridicule from both teachers as well as
students, and that I should allow him to progress at
his own rate. My gut tells me he needs the closeness
of the family. My family tells me I am being too
protective.<<
It's never too late to heal. It takes time. The first step is to take
children out of the damaging environment. You've done that.
The problem is that the young man has been under the control of, and has
been the victim of people who saw him as flawed, and not as someone who is
gifted in his own ways. They wanted to change him to fit their harmful
oppressive mold. That's what the government schools do. They are wrong, and
their attitude has terrible consequences for children.
The young man needs to begin to take control of his own life. He needs to
feel the power that comes from making one's own decisions, and choosing
one's own activities and goals. My oldest son (32) also learn to play music
by himself -- very well. Only after he quit school was he able to do that.
It is now his profession and his passion.
The main lesson of this egroup, of course, is that school is not only
damaging in many ways, but it is unnecessary.
I strongly agree with you. Your son needs to feel as much support as
possible instead of criticism.
Your family is wrong. Their attitude makes me angry. It is the same as those
who say, "Life is terrible, so put your kids in school where they'll learn
how bad life is and get used to it." From what you say, your family wants
your son to continue to suffer at the hands of people who don't respect him.
WOW.
Unfortunately, families are often the worst people to hang around with.
You have rescued your son from the school; now your job is to protect him
from your family by all means.
Ned Vare
gr_8_mom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
<nedvare@n...> wrote:
they'll learn how bad life is and get used to it." From what you
say, your family wants your son to continue to suffer at the hands of
people who don't respect him. WOW. Unfortunately, families are often
the worst people to hang around with.
struggle with most in this journey. Life *is* tough, however.
People suffer setbacks, people have to sometimes take jobs they don't
like in order to get by, people sometimes have to stick to something
difficult in order to get to where they need to go. My fear is that
by not "making" my child contend with suffering or boredom or
whatever bump comes his way that I'm robbing them of a real learning
experience. Sometimes some of lifes best lessons are its hardest.
Perseverance is a good trait to have. How do you balance this need
against the tender heart of your child?
Katy C.
<nedvare@n...> wrote:
> To Leslie, and others whose children have been damaged by schools:as those who say, "Life is terrible, so put your kids in school where
> Your family is wrong. Their attitude makes me angry. It is the same
they'll learn how bad life is and get used to it." From what you
say, your family wants your son to continue to suffer at the hands of
people who don't respect him. WOW. Unfortunately, families are often
the worst people to hang around with.
> > Ned VareHey, Ned, that was great advice. It is one of the things that i
struggle with most in this journey. Life *is* tough, however.
People suffer setbacks, people have to sometimes take jobs they don't
like in order to get by, people sometimes have to stick to something
difficult in order to get to where they need to go. My fear is that
by not "making" my child contend with suffering or boredom or
whatever bump comes his way that I'm robbing them of a real learning
experience. Sometimes some of lifes best lessons are its hardest.
Perseverance is a good trait to have. How do you balance this need
against the tender heart of your child?
Katy C.
Leslie Avery
I think it is hard to balance the tender heart of a
child with lifes hard lessons. The thing I have tried
to do is empower my son or all of my children for that
matter against those who do not feel as we feel. Also
by showing them in my own actions that what people say
do not effect how I feel about myself and the way I
respond to people and forgive people who say things
that are hurtful. Only we can allow others opinions
and comments to hurt us. Unfortunately it has taken
me 46 years to learn this. I only hope that I have
started early with my children so that they will
always hear this in their heads. My son, I think,
still has to learn to forgive those students and
teachers who persecuted him in order to move forward
in his own life. It is the process of healing and
dealing with life's hardship where were learn the most
lessons. As a parent it is hard to watch this
process, sometimes we want to rush in and make it all
better instead of having faith in them and in
ourselves as parents that if we are patient it will
all work out.
Leslie
--- gr_8_mom <caclark1231@...> wrote:
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
child with lifes hard lessons. The thing I have tried
to do is empower my son or all of my children for that
matter against those who do not feel as we feel. Also
by showing them in my own actions that what people say
do not effect how I feel about myself and the way I
respond to people and forgive people who say things
that are hurtful. Only we can allow others opinions
and comments to hurt us. Unfortunately it has taken
me 46 years to learn this. I only hope that I have
started early with my children so that they will
always hear this in their heads. My son, I think,
still has to learn to forgive those students and
teachers who persecuted him in order to move forward
in his own life. It is the process of healing and
dealing with life's hardship where were learn the most
lessons. As a parent it is hard to watch this
process, sometimes we want to rush in and make it all
better instead of having faith in them and in
ourselves as parents that if we are patient it will
all work out.
Leslie
--- gr_8_mom <caclark1231@...> wrote:
> --- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., Luz Shosie and Ned__________________________________________________
> Vare
> <nedvare@n...> wrote:
> > To Leslie, and others whose children have been
> damaged by schools:
> > Your family is wrong. Their attitude makes me
> angry. It is the same
> as those who say, "Life is terrible, so put your
> kids in school where
> they'll learn how bad life is and get used to it."
> From what you
> say, your family wants your son to continue to
> suffer at the hands of
> people who don't respect him. WOW. Unfortunately,
> families are often
> the worst people to hang around with.
> > > Ned Vare
>
> Hey, Ned, that was great advice. It is one of the
> things that i
> struggle with most in this journey. Life *is*
> tough, however.
> People suffer setbacks, people have to sometimes
> take jobs they don't
> like in order to get by, people sometimes have to
> stick to something
> difficult in order to get to where they need to go.
> My fear is that
> by not "making" my child contend with suffering or
> boredom or
> whatever bump comes his way that I'm robbing them of
> a real learning
> experience. Sometimes some of lifes best lessons are
> its hardest.
> Perseverance is a good trait to have. How do you
> balance this need
> against the tender heart of your child?
>
> Katy C.
>
>
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
http://health.yahoo.com
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
>Yes, it is. And, as Mary reminds us: Life is good.
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 01:41:05 -0000
> From: "gr_8_mom" <caclark1231@...>
> Subject: Re: 2163, for Leslie
>
>
> Life *is* tough, however.
> People suffer setbacks, people have to sometimes take jobs they don'tDon't worry, there are plenty of real learning experiences. We don't have to
> like in order to get by, people sometimes have to stick to something
> difficult in order to get to where they need to go. My fear is that
> by not "making" my child contend with suffering or boredom or
> whatever bump comes his way that I'm robbing them of a real learning
> experience. Sometimes some of lifes best lessons are its hardest.
> Perseverance is a good trait to have. How do you balance this need
> against the tender heart of your child?
>
> Katy C.
>
"make" our children contend with anything. The best we can do is love and
protect them as much as we are able.
Children are born with perseverance and all the other "good traits" they
need to survive. They are taught *not to persevere* whenever someone comes
along and insists (or ever so sweetly suggests) they stop whatever they're
doing and get busy with something *educational*.
Luz
Beth Ali
Don't worry, there are plenty of real learning experiences. We don't have to
"make" our children contend with anything. The best we can do is love and
protect them as much as we are able.
As I was shown clearly today when my son was confronted with a nasty little boy (older at 6 to Shawn's 3.75 yrs). This boy sneered at Shawn and then stuck out his tongue and gave him a rasberry. I told the boy that that wasn't nice and how would he feel if someone did that to him. Well, this child obviously has not been taught to show respect to adults and looked me straight in the eye and said with a truly superior tone that no one has ever done it to him. I told him he must have some really nice friends. I then asked Shawn to come away and told him that I did not like the behavior that little boy was showing and that if Shawn was uncomfortable to leave him alone. When I was telling my husband about it this evening (the mom is a firm believer of Ferber and thinks that I may be causing developmental problems with Shawn and Shannon since they sleep with their parents (Shawn with dh and Shannon with me) thereby explaining, in my mind, the yucky behavior of the son) Shawn whispered to me that the boy also called him a "loser". This is probably the first time Shawn had been called a name, so I asked him how that made him feel and he said bad and then when on to say "I don't like that boy. I don't like his behavior. He wasn't nice at all." I told him he was right and that if he ever heard someone being mean to someone else it was his job to to tell that person not to be mean to others.
It sucks that we can't protect our children from ALL the mean and thoughtless people in the world...but homeschooling and unschooling certainly helps!!
Beth Ali--temporarily out of lurk mode
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
"make" our children contend with anything. The best we can do is love and
protect them as much as we are able.
As I was shown clearly today when my son was confronted with a nasty little boy (older at 6 to Shawn's 3.75 yrs). This boy sneered at Shawn and then stuck out his tongue and gave him a rasberry. I told the boy that that wasn't nice and how would he feel if someone did that to him. Well, this child obviously has not been taught to show respect to adults and looked me straight in the eye and said with a truly superior tone that no one has ever done it to him. I told him he must have some really nice friends. I then asked Shawn to come away and told him that I did not like the behavior that little boy was showing and that if Shawn was uncomfortable to leave him alone. When I was telling my husband about it this evening (the mom is a firm believer of Ferber and thinks that I may be causing developmental problems with Shawn and Shannon since they sleep with their parents (Shawn with dh and Shannon with me) thereby explaining, in my mind, the yucky behavior of the son) Shawn whispered to me that the boy also called him a "loser". This is probably the first time Shawn had been called a name, so I asked him how that made him feel and he said bad and then when on to say "I don't like that boy. I don't like his behavior. He wasn't nice at all." I told him he was right and that if he ever heard someone being mean to someone else it was his job to to tell that person not to be mean to others.
It sucks that we can't protect our children from ALL the mean and thoughtless people in the world...but homeschooling and unschooling certainly helps!!
Beth Ali--temporarily out of lurk mode
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]