Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Teach, learn, and looking for some feedback
Alan & Brenda Leonard
I need help here, folks, and this IS related to unschooling, but in a
different way. Feel free to hit delete if I bore you (expect for you,
Sandra...you got me here, now you have to help me! <g>).
As my understanding of how my son learns and how I learn develops, the
natural side-effect is to consider what I do professionally. I teach
violin, and I've been struggling with how I do that. (I hate the "I
teach..." comment, too, and I'm open to suggestions on other ways to say
that! My business card could use a little help, too.)
I'm coming to beleive that most students come to me expecting me to feed
knowledge into them, and then they become burned out when I do exactly that.
(And so do I!) I was considering it this way: if my son wanted to learn
about dinosaurs, I'd probably help him find a couple books on dinosaurs,
search for web sites, check out our nearby Natural History museum, buy some
model dinosaurs to mess around with, or whatever. The LAST thing I'd
consider doing would be calling someone whom I heard was an expert on
dinosaurs and sign him up for weekly "dinosaur lessons", where he would
learn a little bit new each week and then be expected to come home and
repeat it over and over and then repeat it back to the expert the next week,
perfectly or at least greatly improved!
And yet to some extent, this is what I do for a living. Somewhere along the
line, somebody hears a violin, decides they want to learn to do that, and
calls me for violin lessons. And so we begin working through the basics of
how you play, etc. But here's my problem: they get bored. It happens to
everyone, somewhere down the line. (Including me, the teacher! I get kudos
for my teaching, I'm a good teacher. But it's not thrilling me, either.)
Let's face it, put as above, I'd be bored with dinosaurs in the first month.
If we played little games learning the information, had some laughs, etc., I
might survive for two months.
I'm realizing that somehow, I need my students to see me as a single
resource in their quest to learn violin. That they also need to read,
listen, study, experiment, search the internet, etc. They need to think
about why some things work and some things just don't work for them, and how
to fix their own problems. But how do I get them beyond the "teach me"
mentality to learn themselves? How do I give these people some direction,
without it becoming just more assignments that I give for the week, added
onto everything else.
There's so much more to this all jumbled around in my poor little brain
tonight, but maybe this works as a start. Thanks for the help!
brenda
different way. Feel free to hit delete if I bore you (expect for you,
Sandra...you got me here, now you have to help me! <g>).
As my understanding of how my son learns and how I learn develops, the
natural side-effect is to consider what I do professionally. I teach
violin, and I've been struggling with how I do that. (I hate the "I
teach..." comment, too, and I'm open to suggestions on other ways to say
that! My business card could use a little help, too.)
I'm coming to beleive that most students come to me expecting me to feed
knowledge into them, and then they become burned out when I do exactly that.
(And so do I!) I was considering it this way: if my son wanted to learn
about dinosaurs, I'd probably help him find a couple books on dinosaurs,
search for web sites, check out our nearby Natural History museum, buy some
model dinosaurs to mess around with, or whatever. The LAST thing I'd
consider doing would be calling someone whom I heard was an expert on
dinosaurs and sign him up for weekly "dinosaur lessons", where he would
learn a little bit new each week and then be expected to come home and
repeat it over and over and then repeat it back to the expert the next week,
perfectly or at least greatly improved!
And yet to some extent, this is what I do for a living. Somewhere along the
line, somebody hears a violin, decides they want to learn to do that, and
calls me for violin lessons. And so we begin working through the basics of
how you play, etc. But here's my problem: they get bored. It happens to
everyone, somewhere down the line. (Including me, the teacher! I get kudos
for my teaching, I'm a good teacher. But it's not thrilling me, either.)
Let's face it, put as above, I'd be bored with dinosaurs in the first month.
If we played little games learning the information, had some laughs, etc., I
might survive for two months.
I'm realizing that somehow, I need my students to see me as a single
resource in their quest to learn violin. That they also need to read,
listen, study, experiment, search the internet, etc. They need to think
about why some things work and some things just don't work for them, and how
to fix their own problems. But how do I get them beyond the "teach me"
mentality to learn themselves? How do I give these people some direction,
without it becoming just more assignments that I give for the week, added
onto everything else.
There's so much more to this all jumbled around in my poor little brain
tonight, but maybe this works as a start. Thanks for the help!
brenda
[email protected]
On Mon, 08 Jul 2002 00:20:03 +0200 Alan & Brenda Leonard
<abtleo@...> writes:
is very timely for me. Up until this summer, Rain had mostly learned
things on her own, with my assistance as requested, and using resources
such as books, tv, computer software, etc. She'd been on sports teams
with coaches, but that was all pretty loose, and the coaches did a lot
more organizing than teaching. And they weren't "experts", just men and
women who knew a bit and were willing to get out there with the kids.
This summer, Rain is taking private swimming lessons from an expert
swimmer. I was impressed by the way he sat down with her to start and
asked what she could do, and what she wanted to be able to do. Then he
watched her "swim" (basically mess around in the water) for a few
minutes, and then picked one small skill she was lacking (tucking her
chin) and told her what this would do for her, and why. They went on like
that, with him giving her small pieces, and her practicing those bits
until she felt she had them, and then him suggesting other pieces, or
combinations. I was really impressed, both by his expertise and ability
to break the skill down for her, and by his receptiveness to teaching her
the skills that would lead to what she wanted to learn. She may never
master the back float - it wasn't on her list, she feels fine with the
way she does it now and doesn't want further assistance - and that's
okay. She *can* swim better than she could before, and that's what she
wanted.
I've heard of music teachers who start the same way, with inviting the
person wanting help to just play, or sing, and then taking it from there.
Rain has been learning a lot about singing this summer through a theater
workshop, and has expressed an interest in continuing with some sort of
lessons (mentorship?) after the workshop ends. I would look for someone
who would look at meeting her specific goals at that time, not at working
through a beginning singing book. Maybe the problem is the whole
teacher-student paradigm, maybe you could call yourself a "violin
mentor", since that to me implies a resource to be used, instead of
someone who will be responsible for shoving knowledge into your head.
Dar
<abtleo@...> writes:
> And yet to some extent, this is what I do for a living. Somewherealong the
> line, somebody hears a violin, decides they want to learn to do that,and
> calls me for violin lessons. And so we begin working through theIt
> basics of how you play, etc. But here's my problem: they get bored.
> happens to everyone, somewhere down the line. (Including me, theteacher! I get kudos
> for my teaching, I'm a good teacher. But it's not thrilling me,I've been mentally writing an essay on the importance of experts, so this
> either
is very timely for me. Up until this summer, Rain had mostly learned
things on her own, with my assistance as requested, and using resources
such as books, tv, computer software, etc. She'd been on sports teams
with coaches, but that was all pretty loose, and the coaches did a lot
more organizing than teaching. And they weren't "experts", just men and
women who knew a bit and were willing to get out there with the kids.
This summer, Rain is taking private swimming lessons from an expert
swimmer. I was impressed by the way he sat down with her to start and
asked what she could do, and what she wanted to be able to do. Then he
watched her "swim" (basically mess around in the water) for a few
minutes, and then picked one small skill she was lacking (tucking her
chin) and told her what this would do for her, and why. They went on like
that, with him giving her small pieces, and her practicing those bits
until she felt she had them, and then him suggesting other pieces, or
combinations. I was really impressed, both by his expertise and ability
to break the skill down for her, and by his receptiveness to teaching her
the skills that would lead to what she wanted to learn. She may never
master the back float - it wasn't on her list, she feels fine with the
way she does it now and doesn't want further assistance - and that's
okay. She *can* swim better than she could before, and that's what she
wanted.
I've heard of music teachers who start the same way, with inviting the
person wanting help to just play, or sing, and then taking it from there.
Rain has been learning a lot about singing this summer through a theater
workshop, and has expressed an interest in continuing with some sort of
lessons (mentorship?) after the workshop ends. I would look for someone
who would look at meeting her specific goals at that time, not at working
through a beginning singing book. Maybe the problem is the whole
teacher-student paradigm, maybe you could call yourself a "violin
mentor", since that to me implies a resource to be used, instead of
someone who will be responsible for shoving knowledge into your head.
Dar
[email protected]
<<As my understanding of how my son learns and how I learn develops, the
natural side-effect is to consider what I do professionally. I teach
violin, and I've been struggling with how I do that. >>
Holly was taking fiddle lessons from someone who
1) played since he was eight
2) switched to (or added to his knowledge) bluegrass and Irish three years
before that
and
3) is a homeschooling/unschooling-maybe dad of a four/five year old boy.
So the teacher was interested in experimenting with looser methods and
teaching by ear. He was willing to go with Holly's personal quirks, if he
found any.
She went ten times or so, had three songs mostly learned, liked his tire
swing better than the lessons, and after a while didn't want to go.
Last month she said she wanted to start again, but his bluegrass band is
getting more work AND he has more students (and he's a full time engineer or
something), so her spot was gone, but he recommended someone else who
1) teaches suzuki or something akin to it
2) has (in fall starting again) a group that is all-but-one homeschoolers, so
they have a private lesson and the come to the group thing each week too
3) is doing fiddling too
AND
4) is concert master for the Musical Theatre of the Southwest.
And she and Holly hit it off well. Holly's been three times and is going
again tomorrow. The approach is really structured (the teacher is reading
off a list sometimes, and always checking back with her checklist, so it's
someone else's "curriculum"), but it's fun and funny and Holly's into it.
<< But how do I get them beyond the "teach me"
mentality to learn themselves? How do I give these people some direction,
without it becoming just more assignments that I give for the week, added
onto everything else. >>
Maybe you could say you're the coach, and they need to do there
violin-related things each week besides playing it some (don't say
"practicing," say "play your violin during the week," and then it won't be
homework, it will be the coach reminding them to DO).
I've taken piano lessons from three different teachers (pre-school for a
year, and then jr high/high school two teachers), was in band in school, had
two chorus teachers I liked lots, made all-state, took recorder lessons
(after I had learned to play it, took serious Baroque-coaching and
Renaissance ensemble university-music lessons with Floyd Williams, who's in
Australia now, or was last I knew). So the music lessons have been all kinds
of different, but the LEARNING has been almost always me myself. What the
best of those teachers did was coach me, and tweak what I was doing.
Maybe you could ask them to find music (live or recorded, video, or old
records) each week, and maybe art or history, and in all that exploration
they'll learn lots of trivia and connections that might inspire them to ask
you questions you could answer.
At Holly's last lesson they were doing copying phrases. Holly would copy
three or four notes, with different (I don't know the violin terminology)
bowing techniques--stacatto, legato (smooth and something).
With her old teacher she used to share a lesson with another homeschooler
sometimes, and that girl was making up songs. So the girl would play a
phrase and the teacher would copy it. THAT was a thrill for the
composing-kid.
Sandra
natural side-effect is to consider what I do professionally. I teach
violin, and I've been struggling with how I do that. >>
Holly was taking fiddle lessons from someone who
1) played since he was eight
2) switched to (or added to his knowledge) bluegrass and Irish three years
before that
and
3) is a homeschooling/unschooling-maybe dad of a four/five year old boy.
So the teacher was interested in experimenting with looser methods and
teaching by ear. He was willing to go with Holly's personal quirks, if he
found any.
She went ten times or so, had three songs mostly learned, liked his tire
swing better than the lessons, and after a while didn't want to go.
Last month she said she wanted to start again, but his bluegrass band is
getting more work AND he has more students (and he's a full time engineer or
something), so her spot was gone, but he recommended someone else who
1) teaches suzuki or something akin to it
2) has (in fall starting again) a group that is all-but-one homeschoolers, so
they have a private lesson and the come to the group thing each week too
3) is doing fiddling too
AND
4) is concert master for the Musical Theatre of the Southwest.
And she and Holly hit it off well. Holly's been three times and is going
again tomorrow. The approach is really structured (the teacher is reading
off a list sometimes, and always checking back with her checklist, so it's
someone else's "curriculum"), but it's fun and funny and Holly's into it.
<< But how do I get them beyond the "teach me"
mentality to learn themselves? How do I give these people some direction,
without it becoming just more assignments that I give for the week, added
onto everything else. >>
Maybe you could say you're the coach, and they need to do there
violin-related things each week besides playing it some (don't say
"practicing," say "play your violin during the week," and then it won't be
homework, it will be the coach reminding them to DO).
I've taken piano lessons from three different teachers (pre-school for a
year, and then jr high/high school two teachers), was in band in school, had
two chorus teachers I liked lots, made all-state, took recorder lessons
(after I had learned to play it, took serious Baroque-coaching and
Renaissance ensemble university-music lessons with Floyd Williams, who's in
Australia now, or was last I knew). So the music lessons have been all kinds
of different, but the LEARNING has been almost always me myself. What the
best of those teachers did was coach me, and tweak what I was doing.
Maybe you could ask them to find music (live or recorded, video, or old
records) each week, and maybe art or history, and in all that exploration
they'll learn lots of trivia and connections that might inspire them to ask
you questions you could answer.
At Holly's last lesson they were doing copying phrases. Holly would copy
three or four notes, with different (I don't know the violin terminology)
bowing techniques--stacatto, legato (smooth and something).
With her old teacher she used to share a lesson with another homeschooler
sometimes, and that girl was making up songs. So the girl would play a
phrase and the teacher would copy it. THAT was a thrill for the
composing-kid.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
>There are 2 unschoolers on the Canadian homeschooling list who teach
>
>As my understanding of how my son learns and how I learn develops, the
>natural side-effect is to consider what I do professionally. I teach
>violin, and I've been struggling with how I do that. (I hate the "I
>teach..." comment, too, and I'm open to suggestions on other ways to say
>that! My business card could use a little help, too.)
violin. They've talked some on the list about their conflicts between
their unschooling principals and their violin teaching methods. They also
talk about it a lot between themselves. If you're interested, I could ask
them if it's all right to send you their addys.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
Betsy
**I've been mentally writing an essay on the importance of experts, so
this is very timely for me. Up until this summer, Rain had mostly
learned things on her own, with my assistance as requested, and using resources
such as books, tv, computer software, etc. She'd been on sports teams
with coaches, but that was all pretty loose, and the coaches did a lot
more organizing than teaching. And they weren't "experts", just men and
women who knew a bit and were willing to get out there with the kids.**
It's great that you are pondering this, and I'll hope you share more as
your ideas form.
I've been reading stuff about "education reform", especially past
efforts. I was really struck by the assumption that a human teacher
could be replaced by some kind of technology (e.g., filmstrips, or a
computer) doing programmed instruction, and that nothing would be lost,
there would just be amazing gains in productivity. As if only the words
that the teacher speaks are important -- the tone of voice and facial
expressions, everything that's part of a human connection is assumed to
be dispensible. That seems wrong to me.
I was also reading some stuff about language acquisition, and whether
younger kids have an advantage in second language acquisition. My
personal theory is that babies do so well with language acquisition
because they are with their mothers. I think a child in daycare or with
a non-native-speaker nanny might be at a disadvantage for language
acquisition. I did notice that when my son was first taking off in
reading to himself he would come over to the couch and lean against me
to have the same contact that was familiar from when I had read to him.
Maybe the value of affection in learning as been underestimated.
Betsy
this is very timely for me. Up until this summer, Rain had mostly
learned things on her own, with my assistance as requested, and using resources
such as books, tv, computer software, etc. She'd been on sports teams
with coaches, but that was all pretty loose, and the coaches did a lot
more organizing than teaching. And they weren't "experts", just men and
women who knew a bit and were willing to get out there with the kids.**
It's great that you are pondering this, and I'll hope you share more as
your ideas form.
I've been reading stuff about "education reform", especially past
efforts. I was really struck by the assumption that a human teacher
could be replaced by some kind of technology (e.g., filmstrips, or a
computer) doing programmed instruction, and that nothing would be lost,
there would just be amazing gains in productivity. As if only the words
that the teacher speaks are important -- the tone of voice and facial
expressions, everything that's part of a human connection is assumed to
be dispensible. That seems wrong to me.
I was also reading some stuff about language acquisition, and whether
younger kids have an advantage in second language acquisition. My
personal theory is that babies do so well with language acquisition
because they are with their mothers. I think a child in daycare or with
a non-native-speaker nanny might be at a disadvantage for language
acquisition. I did notice that when my son was first taking off in
reading to himself he would come over to the couch and lean against me
to have the same contact that was familiar from when I had read to him.
Maybe the value of affection in learning as been underestimated.
Betsy
[email protected]
>>As if only the wordsthat the teacher speaks are important -- the tone ofvoice and facialexpressions, everything that's part of a human connection is
assumed tobe dispensible. That seems wrong to me. <<
I can't teach big huge theater-style classes where students are too far for
me to look into their eyes. I have to have students sitting so that I can see
their faces. If I don't - I just start to stumble and fumble and can't
explain myself well and my lectures become PAINFULLY stilted and boring. When
I have eye contact, I'm very very sensitive to my students - sensing that
this one is not quite understanding, not trying, trying really hard, getting
overwhelmed, not getting enough information, wanting more, wanting less, etc.
--pam
National Home Education Network
http://www.NHEN.org
Changing the Way the World Sees Homeschooling!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 7/7/02 6:20 PM, Alan & Brenda Leonard at abtleo@... wrote:
(teaching! ;-) is out of context, e.g., how to do two digit addition and how
to play a G, or in artificial contexts, e.g., made up word problems and
beginner songs that weren't the ones that inspired kids to want to play the
violin.
Of course most kids don't stumble over violin playing throughout their daily
life as they do math! They can't watch mom playing, she can't show them
something interesting she found.
But perhaps you could incorporate some of that. Find out what it was that
they heard that drew them to the violin, or the kinds of things that kids
find cool until they get used to listening for themselves. Maybe they could
bring in recordings/music of things they like and mess around with it so
that learning how to hold the bow isn't the point of the lesson. It's a
skill that gets picked while working towards something they want. Learning
how to add is a side-effect of wanting to know how much money they have or
how long until daddy gets home or who won the game.
It might help if you projected the attitude of a mentor. *Assume* they will
becoming to you as a mentor rather than assuming they want to be fed. You
might need to feed them some nifty things that other kids have enjoyed
trying to do to get the ball rolling but I bet once they get the idea, that
many will figure it out. Some might not. And they might feel more
comfortable with a different teacher. Which should be perfectly fine! Not
all kids learn the same way.
Joyce
> Somewhere along theMusic lessons to me seem a lot like math lessons. A lot of the learning
> line, somebody hears a violin, decides they want to learn to do that, and
> calls me for violin lessons.
(teaching! ;-) is out of context, e.g., how to do two digit addition and how
to play a G, or in artificial contexts, e.g., made up word problems and
beginner songs that weren't the ones that inspired kids to want to play the
violin.
Of course most kids don't stumble over violin playing throughout their daily
life as they do math! They can't watch mom playing, she can't show them
something interesting she found.
But perhaps you could incorporate some of that. Find out what it was that
they heard that drew them to the violin, or the kinds of things that kids
find cool until they get used to listening for themselves. Maybe they could
bring in recordings/music of things they like and mess around with it so
that learning how to hold the bow isn't the point of the lesson. It's a
skill that gets picked while working towards something they want. Learning
how to add is a side-effect of wanting to know how much money they have or
how long until daddy gets home or who won the game.
It might help if you projected the attitude of a mentor. *Assume* they will
becoming to you as a mentor rather than assuming they want to be fed. You
might need to feed them some nifty things that other kids have enjoyed
trying to do to get the ball rolling but I bet once they get the idea, that
many will figure it out. Some might not. And they might feel more
comfortable with a different teacher. Which should be perfectly fine! Not
all kids learn the same way.
Joyce