[email protected]

Debi, i loved your story about your son at sunday school..
it is amusing to me that what i see as a good thing in children.. or at least nothing to worry about, some people get SO worried about.. they hav ea picture of children i think they got from fifties tv shows or something (like sixties or seventies or eighty's tv shows lol)

it is the notion that evolved somehow to think that children need to be .. "socialized".. .... go along with the crowd, look and behave the same, speak the same..and most importantly... do what their told.. (wow.. sounds like a nazie.. OH NO.. )

and this bleak outlook of life that your child has no more to look forward to that living a life as a subordinate doing a boring job --it sounds like science fiction...

dont' these people know that THESE are the kids that grow up to be the BOSSES!!!

Linda LL
----- Original Message -----
From: debi watson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Teaching, learning, looking for advice... (LONG)
........ I have a bizarre little story to insert here -- the other day, after church, my ds's Sunday School teacher stopped me to tell me he was concerned about my son. Ds is nine, and in a class of all girls. They tend to be very giggly and off-topic, and my son gets annoyed with them. The teacher said, "Now, don't get me wrong -- he is very polite and respectful and gets along well with adults, but he seems to think he is 16 or something, instead of 9. He acts like he thinks the other kids are childish. He is certainly a bright, sharp kid -- while I am struggling to explain to the others what an analogy is in the scriptures, he is able to not only understand, but apply and construe his own examples. But he has no patience with them when they start getting off topic and fooling around. He will actually get up and walk away if they won't settle! down. He doesn't know how to be a kid. That's what I see the problem is with homeschooling. Thoses kids don't know how to act around other kids. You've done fine with the academics, but he isn't very socialized. In my professional opinion (he is a ninth grade teacher during the week), you need to get him involved with other kids a lot more, and you should think about putting him in school as soon as possible. He needs to learn how to be part of a group; a team player." I tried to explain that he is a Cub and a member of Junior Forest Wardens; that he went to swimming lessons and frequent field trips with a bunch of homeschool kids, and that we went and had a play day usually once a week at various friends houses, but he waved that aside. I tried again. "He just doesn't like groups very much. He is much happier one on one, and he also tends to be a leader. As first born, he is used to being in charge! a lot, and while I know he can get downright bossy, we have been trying to work on learning to compromise. Maybe he is one of those kids who just prefers things to be the way he wants, and he'd rather have a few close friends with similar goals and direction, than a throng of acquaintances. Kind of like Bill Gates, or something." "Or, like the Unabomber. He has to learn to be part of a team -- just one of the players. He needs to be put in positions where he HAS to do what the group wants, even if it is not what HE personally wants. He needs to learn to be one of the subordinates -- it is a situation he will be encountering all his life, and he needs to learn to deal with it now." After a few more fruitless exchanges, I went away, totally dejected. On the one hand, he was criticizing my son for knowing how to behave in church -- staying on topic, knowing his material, and wanting the others to be respectful to the teacher.&! nbsp; This is just how ds is -- he is a really focussed kid. But I have certainly learned that *I* cannot choose that focus -- the minute I try to impose my goals on him, he shuts down. SO he has obviously *chosen* to behave in what most people would consider an ideal manner in a public, teaching oriented forum. (Notice I did not say "learning"? *I* am learning! :o) )
However, the teacher is then using that as proof that my son is doomed to a reclusive life, as he is not a group kind of kid. So my question is this: do I need to be concerned? Was this just some big deal that I was totally oblivious to, or does he really need to get a handle on dealing with groups? And how does this reconcile with unschooling? Obviously I cannot *force* him to be part of a crowd, but is this something he really needs to be encouraged in? He sometimes gets sad because he has so few friends, but most of the time he is too busy with his own projects and stuff that he doesn't really seem to care. And he does tend to think that kids his age are immature, although he is very patient and kind with his younger sisters. Of course, most older kids we've come across don't look too favorably on a bossy younger boy trying to include himself in their doings, either. What is the balance here?!
>>I don't want visions of unschoolers at conventions
with pamphlets and smiling faces saying "can I take some time to show you how to unschool the right way?"
Why not?! I'd take one! :o) Debi


[


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

debi watson

Debi, i loved your story about your son at sunday school..(snip) don't these people know that THESE are the kids that grow up to be the BOSSES!!!

Yeah, that's kind of the point I was trying to make when I brought up Bill Gates. I know "bossy" does not always translate to "boss" in later years, but ds definately is not a follower. Sure wish YOU were his SS teacher, Linda LL? Debi
----- Original Message -----
From: debi watson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Teaching, learning, looking for advice... (LONG)
........ I have a bizarre little story to insert here -- the other day, after church, my ds's Sunday School teacher stopped me to tell me he was concerned about my son. Ds is nine, and in a class of all girls. They tend to be very giggly and off-topic, and my son gets annoyed with them. The teacher said, "Now, don't get me wrong -- he is very polite and respectful and gets along well with adults, but he seems to think he is 16 or something, instead of 9. He acts like he thinks the other kids are childish. He is certainly a bright, sharp kid -- while I am struggling to explain to the others what an analogy is in the scriptures, he is able to not only understand, but apply and construe his own examples. But he has no patience with them when they start getting off topic and fooling around. He will actually get up and walk away if they won't settle! down. He doesn't know how to be a kid. That's what I see the problem is with homeschooling.& However, the teacher is then using that as proof that my son is doomed to a reclusive life, as he is not a group kind of kid. So my question is this: do I need to be concerned? Was this just some big deal that I was totally oblivious to, or does he really need to get a handle on dealing with groups? And how does this reconcile with unschooling? Obviously I cannot *force* him to be part of a crowd, but is this something he really needs to be encouraged in? He sometimes gets sad because he has so few friends, but most of the time he is too busy with his own projects and stuff that he doesn't really seem to care. And he does tend to think that kids his age are immature, although he is very patient and kind with his younger sisters. Of course, most older kids we've come across don't look too favorably on a bossy younger boy trying to include himself in their doings, either. What is the balance here?!
>>I don't want visions of unschoolers at conventions
with pamphlets and smiling faces saying "can I take some time to show you how to unschool the right way?"
Why not?! I'd take one! :o) Debi


[


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[email protected]

debi.. hahah. if i were his ss teacher.. well, we'd be going to all the churches in town to see what other people believe so we could make up our own minds..

that's what i did in UU sunday school.. (well, the earlier years were spent learning about egypt and crete and greek myths and other early religions.. we never studied christianity, except for the visits to other churches..

Linda LL
----- Original Message -----
From: debi watson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] mislead sunday school teacher


Debi, i loved your story about your son at sunday school..(snip) don't these people know that THESE are the kids that grow up to be the BOSSES!!!

Yeah, that's kind of the point I was trying to make when I brought up Bill Gates. I know "bossy" does not always translate to "boss" in later years, but ds definately is not a follower. Sure wish YOU were his SS teacher, Linda LL? Debi
----- Original Message -----
From: debi watson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 06, 2002 2:07 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Teaching, learning, looking for advice... (LONG)
........ I have a bizarre little story to insert here -- the other day, after church, my ds's Sunday School teacher stopped me to tell me he was concerned about my son. Ds is nine, and in a class of all girls. They tend to be very giggly and off-topic, and my son gets annoyed with them. The teacher said, "Now, don't get me wrong -- he is very polite and respectful and gets along well with adults, but he seems to think he is 16 or something, instead of 9. He acts like he thinks the other kids are childish. He is certainly a bright, sharp kid -- while I am struggling to explain to the others what an analogy is in the scriptures, he is able to not only understand, but apply and construe his own examples. But he has no patience with them when they start getting off topic and fooling around. He will actually get up and walk away if they won't settle! down. He doesn't know how to be a kid. That's what I see th! e problem is with homeschooling.& However, the teacher is then using that as proof that my son is doomed to a reclusive life, as he is not a group kind of kid. So my question is this: do I need to be concerned? Was this just some big deal that I was totally oblivious to, or does he really need to get a handle on dealing with groups? And how does this reconcile with unschooling? Obviously I cannot *force* him to be part of a crowd, but is this something he really needs to be encouraged in? He sometimes gets sad because he has so few friends, but most of the time he is too busy with his own projects and stuff that he doesn't really seem to care. And he does tend to think that kids his age are immature, although he is very patient and kind with his younger sisters. Of course, most older kids we've come across don't look too favorably on a bossy younger boy trying to include himself in their doings, eith! er. What is the balance here?!
>>I don't want visions of unschoolers at conventions
with pamphlets and smiling faces saying "can I take some time to show you how to unschool the right way?"
Why not?! I'd take one! :o) Debi


[


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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debi watson

>> if i were his ss teacher.. well, we'd be going to all the churches in town to see what other people believe so we could make up our own minds..

And this would be bad? No, seriously -- I have taken him to a Hindu temple and we have studied Judaism and we have friends from Christian to agnostic to antagonistic -- if you are going to choose a religion, you better see what all is out there before limiting yourself. Just my two shekels, anyway. PS -- what does the LL stand for? La Leche? Lifetime Learner? Debi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

no this would be a GOOD thing.. i'm just ashamed i've been so lazy about getting out and getting my own kids to these places.. at least i talk a lot.. and they have learned a lot from that.. but then i have made up my OWN religion..

L
----- Original Message -----
From: debi watson
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] mislead sunday school teacher



>> if i were his ss teacher.. well, we'd be going to all the churches in town to see what other people believe so we could make up our own minds..

And this would be bad? No, seriously -- I have taken him to a Hindu temple and we have studied Judaism and we have friends from Christian to agnostic to antagonistic -- if you are going to choose a religion, you better see what all is out there before limiting yourself. Just my two shekels, anyway. PS -- what does the LL stand for? La Leche? Lifetime Learner? Debi


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