Religion question
Deb
Oooh, this is interesting! I didn't know that Unitarians do not believe
in a Trinity. I am fascinated by different variations in religion. I
myself am Jewish and a Scientologist. I like to understand what people
believe or use as fundamentals in their outlooks on life. Would you tell
me what this means, and forgive me if what I guess is off base? Jesus is
a prophet or great teacher? Jesus is divine but not part of God as a
trinity? Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one group? OR ... ...? I don't
mean to offend anyone, and if more appropriate you could answer me off
list, because I really am interested. Thanks,
Debbie
(recently joined the list and just had time to read a full digest of
messages)
I live in Florida and run a very flexible umbrella school here for
homeschoolers who do not want to be registered under the government. I
have homeschooled my own daughter for 8 years. She is now almost 16 and
attending a community college locally for arts)
--
Director, Live Oak Academy
Visit our website http://www.newhealth.net/liveoak/
~Flexible Alternative Schooling for Families~
Live Oak Academy provides year-round enrollment in private independent
study programs for homeschoolers. Tutoring is also available.
in a Trinity. I am fascinated by different variations in religion. I
myself am Jewish and a Scientologist. I like to understand what people
believe or use as fundamentals in their outlooks on life. Would you tell
me what this means, and forgive me if what I guess is off base? Jesus is
a prophet or great teacher? Jesus is divine but not part of God as a
trinity? Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one group? OR ... ...? I don't
mean to offend anyone, and if more appropriate you could answer me off
list, because I really am interested. Thanks,
Debbie
(recently joined the list and just had time to read a full digest of
messages)
I live in Florida and run a very flexible umbrella school here for
homeschoolers who do not want to be registered under the government. I
have homeschooled my own daughter for 8 years. She is now almost 16 and
attending a community college locally for arts)
--
Director, Live Oak Academy
Visit our website http://www.newhealth.net/liveoak/
~Flexible Alternative Schooling for Families~
Live Oak Academy provides year-round enrollment in private independent
study programs for homeschoolers. Tutoring is also available.
Fetteroll
on 7/4/02 12:08 PM, Deb at herbtea@... wrote:
Universalists as a whole definitely don't because they aren't Christian. But
there *are* some Unitarian churches -- *just* Unitarian not Unitarian
Universalist -- that are independent of the Unitarian Universalist
Association. Some, I think, are Christian but, since the Unitarians were a
liberal church before 1961 when the UUA was formed, I suspect those that
remained independent don't make an issue of the details that other
denominations go into. They'd even be fine with members not seeing Jesus as
divine.
(It *is* confusing because UU's often call themselves Unitarians :-/)
same time. (It can make your head hurt when people try to explain it ;-) To
me it doesn't sound that hard to grasp. Hindus manage gods with hundreds of
simultaneous aspects. So I feel like I must be missing something! ;-) Or it
might just be Western thought that has problems grasping things that don't
fall into nice neat this or that categories and doesn't want to wrap around
the idea that things might be more than one thing.)
It says in the Complete Idiot's Guide to the Bible that the Westminster
Shorter Catechism explains it as "There are three persons in the Godhead,
the Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one God, the
same in substance, equal in power and glory."
(There's also a Complete Idiot's Guide to World Religions.)
There are a number of definitions of who is a Christian at the Religious
Tolerance site I mentioned before. Some are definitions given by particular
denominations, some by scholars. So there's a wide range.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn.htm
(The Religious Tolerance site covers just about all religions so is a good
place to dip your toe in about other religions.)
Apparently some people who *self-identify* as Christians view Jesus as not
divine but as a great moral teacher. The fundamentalist churches are pretty
explicit about what is and isn't truth and therefore what must be believed.
(*No* question about Jesus being God.) As you go across the spectrum of
denominations towards the liberal end, the list of what is truth diminishes
and what is left up to the individual grows.
Being God and all -- to most Christians -- whether God was speaking through
Jesus and therefore a prophet, is rather unimportant ;-) But I'm not sure
historically or during Jesus's time there was a progression. Was he seen
first as a prophet and then as the Messiah. Did Jesus speak of himself that
way, first as a prophet then as God? I'm sure someone here knows! Well,
knows in a scholarly sense of what is believed since the New Testament was
written well after the events.
But I believe the Muslims view Jesus as a prophet (along with Abraham and
Moses and others, including Mohammed.) (If you type Jesus and prophet into
Google, the websites on the first page are almost entirely Islamic.)
I don't think I've ever heard of Jesus being considered divine but not part
of God. That doesn't mean there isn't anyone just that it isn't a popular
enough belief for me to have heard of it ;-)
Joyce
> Oooh, this is interesting! I didn't know that Unitarians do not believe*Historically* they did. I don't know that they do today. Unitarian
> in a Trinity.
Universalists as a whole definitely don't because they aren't Christian. But
there *are* some Unitarian churches -- *just* Unitarian not Unitarian
Universalist -- that are independent of the Unitarian Universalist
Association. Some, I think, are Christian but, since the Unitarians were a
liberal church before 1961 when the UUA was formed, I suspect those that
remained independent don't make an issue of the details that other
denominations go into. They'd even be fine with members not seeing Jesus as
divine.
(It *is* confusing because UU's often call themselves Unitarians :-/)
> Would you tellThe Trinity isn't a group. It's one whole that's 3 separate things at the
> me what this means, and forgive me if what I guess is off base? Jesus is
> a prophet or great teacher? Jesus is divine but not part of God as a
> trinity? Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one group?
same time. (It can make your head hurt when people try to explain it ;-) To
me it doesn't sound that hard to grasp. Hindus manage gods with hundreds of
simultaneous aspects. So I feel like I must be missing something! ;-) Or it
might just be Western thought that has problems grasping things that don't
fall into nice neat this or that categories and doesn't want to wrap around
the idea that things might be more than one thing.)
It says in the Complete Idiot's Guide to the Bible that the Westminster
Shorter Catechism explains it as "There are three persons in the Godhead,
the Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one God, the
same in substance, equal in power and glory."
(There's also a Complete Idiot's Guide to World Religions.)
There are a number of definitions of who is a Christian at the Religious
Tolerance site I mentioned before. Some are definitions given by particular
denominations, some by scholars. So there's a wide range.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn.htm
(The Religious Tolerance site covers just about all religions so is a good
place to dip your toe in about other religions.)
Apparently some people who *self-identify* as Christians view Jesus as not
divine but as a great moral teacher. The fundamentalist churches are pretty
explicit about what is and isn't truth and therefore what must be believed.
(*No* question about Jesus being God.) As you go across the spectrum of
denominations towards the liberal end, the list of what is truth diminishes
and what is left up to the individual grows.
Being God and all -- to most Christians -- whether God was speaking through
Jesus and therefore a prophet, is rather unimportant ;-) But I'm not sure
historically or during Jesus's time there was a progression. Was he seen
first as a prophet and then as the Messiah. Did Jesus speak of himself that
way, first as a prophet then as God? I'm sure someone here knows! Well,
knows in a scholarly sense of what is believed since the New Testament was
written well after the events.
But I believe the Muslims view Jesus as a prophet (along with Abraham and
Moses and others, including Mohammed.) (If you type Jesus and prophet into
Google, the websites on the first page are almost entirely Islamic.)
I don't think I've ever heard of Jesus being considered divine but not part
of God. That doesn't mean there isn't anyone just that it isn't a popular
enough belief for me to have heard of it ;-)
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/4/02 11:28:12 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< It says in the Complete Idiot's Guide to the Bible that the Westminster
Shorter Catechism explains it as "There are three persons in the Godhead,
the Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one God, the
same in substance, equal in power and glory."
figured it was easy for everyone to figure out. I'm still waiting. <g>
If it speaks to you in your mind, it's the holy spirit. If it was the
physical body of the guy on earth, or even the guise of him, that's Jesus.
If it's the eternal creator forever aspect, that's God-the-father.
But when the word "substance" is used, then the easiest way to say it is it's
like water, ice and steam. God is like water, all the water anywhere--the
very idea of water. Jesus was when water was "made flesh," so he can be the
solid form of water (ice). And when water can go everywhere, wrap around you
without you even feeling it, that's all the forms of mist and steam.
There.
Sandra
<< It says in the Complete Idiot's Guide to the Bible that the Westminster
Shorter Catechism explains it as "There are three persons in the Godhead,
the Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one God, the
same in substance, equal in power and glory."
>>I explained it the best way I've ever heard when I was in 4th grade. I
figured it was easy for everyone to figure out. I'm still waiting. <g>
If it speaks to you in your mind, it's the holy spirit. If it was the
physical body of the guy on earth, or even the guise of him, that's Jesus.
If it's the eternal creator forever aspect, that's God-the-father.
But when the word "substance" is used, then the easiest way to say it is it's
like water, ice and steam. God is like water, all the water anywhere--the
very idea of water. Jesus was when water was "made flesh," so he can be the
solid form of water (ice). And when water can go everywhere, wrap around you
without you even feeling it, that's all the forms of mist and steam.
There.
Sandra
Sue
Would you tell
by it all but one book that really cleared it up for me was the book
"Conversations with God" by Neale Walsch. It is a great read - also I really
enjoyed "Seat of the Soul" by Gary Zuklov??
Sue
> me what this means, and forgive me if what I guess is off base? Jesus isHi Deb, I won't attempt to explain because I myself used to get all confused
> a prophet or great teacher? Jesus is divine but not part of God as a
> trinity? Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one group? OR ... ...? I don't
> mean to offend anyone, and if more appropriate you could answer me off
> list, because I really am interested. Thanks,
>
> Debbie
by it all but one book that really cleared it up for me was the book
"Conversations with God" by Neale Walsch. It is a great read - also I really
enjoyed "Seat of the Soul" by Gary Zuklov??
Sue