de-lurking
lllindsey
Well, this may be the second time i de-lurked.. i forget.. but here
i am, i'm Linda and i'm in Texas and i have an eight year old gifted
child who i am beginning to unschool--and a fourteen year old who
has just survived jr hi.. and is off to high school.. to see if it
is okay for him.. i told him if he didn't find a way to enjoy high
school.. we'd make some other arrangements..
i was just perusing the past couple of weeks of messages to get up
to speed here.. i see someone else noticed the "bickering" i did
that kept me at arms length from the group for a while, but what the
heck.. i can delete messages i find non productive, right?? hahah..
also noting discussion on housework that seems to have sparked some
conflict.. haha. HOUSEWORK ARGGHHH... it is my nemisis.. and i tend
to order my kids to do it.. --my justification to them for these
demands is that as a member of the family they enjoy the percs of
their situation..i.e. lots of STUFF.. video games, food, shelter,
computers etc.. so as members of the family that provides this for
them they have a responsibility to contribute to said family at
their own level of ability-- as do i and their father.. adn their
older sister when she was living here. this works very well.. IN
THEORY
In reality, the eight year old just tells me NO and refuses to do
anything and the fourteen year old says oh yes he'll do it.. and
then never does.. i give up.. my house is very messy.. lolll... my
husband occasionally stirs us all up and gets we get the house
clean.. (i'm great at teaching them
philisophical/spiritual/touchyfeely truths etc. of life, but their
dad is in charge of the real world. (the "real world" and i have, it
seems always been at odds with each other.. )
I am also very happy to see such a large group of unschoolers. i
myself grew up going to public school but looking back see i learned
most of what i know at home from my mom and her parents.. and from
reading myself.. (well, except algebra, geometry etc.. ) .. my mom
saw public school for what it is--obedience training--back in the
sixties.
i also relate to what oh.. i forgot who... said about her son --the
one with the bike and not stopping at stopsigns trying to impress
other kids.. this is very like my own eight year old and is one of
the very reasons he is going to stay home for his education. the
stress of trying to be perfect to everyone (teachers, bad kids,
popular kids, sporty kids etc etc) so they will like him has really
done damage to his self esteem. i can see him beginning to relax a
little already just knowing he will not have to go back to school.
He said school was boring and that he already knew most of what they
were trying to teach him.. of this i have no doubt.. well maybe
some, but he knows a lot from growing up with me and spending time
with my mom-the-compulsive-pedagogue and obsessive naturalist.
my grandfather "read the law" himself and became a lawyer in the
early twenties just by passing the barr, so i figure unschooling is
in my blood...
i am trying to find more unschoolers here in san antonio. I would
very much like my son to be in contact with other kids like himself.
he tends to isolate himself in the summer --except for an
increasingly active online life with other video gamers and
wrestling (ARGGHH) fans..
I am an artist who is trying to find a way to support myself without
a job as i am moving out to an apt across the creek (we live in a
suburban area on the edge of the houses and across the creek from an
apt complex) and get a divorce.. all quite friendly.. the kids are
for it.. they would like some peace in the house.. i will be sort of
in the back yard for them.. the youngest (the homeschooler) will
probly spend most of his time with me..
SOOO any of you from texas? anybody from near san antonio?
let me know because i have joined a mailling list for san antonio
homeschoolers.. a few of which are unschoolers--a very small group
that needs more participants. it is for those homeschooling for
secular rather than religious reasons.. and it is safe to say that
most homeschoolers in this area are doing so for religious reasons.
(something i dont really get.. but hey, to each his own.. si?)
sorry for so much writing..
any of you would not be the first to point out that i talk too much..
Linda L
i am, i'm Linda and i'm in Texas and i have an eight year old gifted
child who i am beginning to unschool--and a fourteen year old who
has just survived jr hi.. and is off to high school.. to see if it
is okay for him.. i told him if he didn't find a way to enjoy high
school.. we'd make some other arrangements..
i was just perusing the past couple of weeks of messages to get up
to speed here.. i see someone else noticed the "bickering" i did
that kept me at arms length from the group for a while, but what the
heck.. i can delete messages i find non productive, right?? hahah..
also noting discussion on housework that seems to have sparked some
conflict.. haha. HOUSEWORK ARGGHHH... it is my nemisis.. and i tend
to order my kids to do it.. --my justification to them for these
demands is that as a member of the family they enjoy the percs of
their situation..i.e. lots of STUFF.. video games, food, shelter,
computers etc.. so as members of the family that provides this for
them they have a responsibility to contribute to said family at
their own level of ability-- as do i and their father.. adn their
older sister when she was living here. this works very well.. IN
THEORY
In reality, the eight year old just tells me NO and refuses to do
anything and the fourteen year old says oh yes he'll do it.. and
then never does.. i give up.. my house is very messy.. lolll... my
husband occasionally stirs us all up and gets we get the house
clean.. (i'm great at teaching them
philisophical/spiritual/touchyfeely truths etc. of life, but their
dad is in charge of the real world. (the "real world" and i have, it
seems always been at odds with each other.. )
I am also very happy to see such a large group of unschoolers. i
myself grew up going to public school but looking back see i learned
most of what i know at home from my mom and her parents.. and from
reading myself.. (well, except algebra, geometry etc.. ) .. my mom
saw public school for what it is--obedience training--back in the
sixties.
i also relate to what oh.. i forgot who... said about her son --the
one with the bike and not stopping at stopsigns trying to impress
other kids.. this is very like my own eight year old and is one of
the very reasons he is going to stay home for his education. the
stress of trying to be perfect to everyone (teachers, bad kids,
popular kids, sporty kids etc etc) so they will like him has really
done damage to his self esteem. i can see him beginning to relax a
little already just knowing he will not have to go back to school.
He said school was boring and that he already knew most of what they
were trying to teach him.. of this i have no doubt.. well maybe
some, but he knows a lot from growing up with me and spending time
with my mom-the-compulsive-pedagogue and obsessive naturalist.
my grandfather "read the law" himself and became a lawyer in the
early twenties just by passing the barr, so i figure unschooling is
in my blood...
i am trying to find more unschoolers here in san antonio. I would
very much like my son to be in contact with other kids like himself.
he tends to isolate himself in the summer --except for an
increasingly active online life with other video gamers and
wrestling (ARGGHH) fans..
I am an artist who is trying to find a way to support myself without
a job as i am moving out to an apt across the creek (we live in a
suburban area on the edge of the houses and across the creek from an
apt complex) and get a divorce.. all quite friendly.. the kids are
for it.. they would like some peace in the house.. i will be sort of
in the back yard for them.. the youngest (the homeschooler) will
probly spend most of his time with me..
SOOO any of you from texas? anybody from near san antonio?
let me know because i have joined a mailling list for san antonio
homeschoolers.. a few of which are unschoolers--a very small group
that needs more participants. it is for those homeschooling for
secular rather than religious reasons.. and it is safe to say that
most homeschoolers in this area are doing so for religious reasons.
(something i dont really get.. but hey, to each his own.. si?)
sorry for so much writing..
any of you would not be the first to point out that i talk too much..
Linda L
diamond_h2o
I'm not from Texas but if i had my choice I would be. But I liked
your post you seem to be somewhat like me except my husband and I
live in the same house but not together because we can't afford 2
households. Anyway good luck and thanks for coming out of lurkdom
your post you seem to be somewhat like me except my husband and I
live in the same house but not together because we can't afford 2
households. Anyway good luck and thanks for coming out of lurkdom
--- In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "lllindsey" <llindsey@w...> wrote:
> Well, this may be the second time i de-lurked.. i forget.. but here
> i am, i'm Linda and i'm in Texas and i have an eight year old
gifted
> child who i am beginning to unschool--and a fourteen year old who
> has just survived jr hi.. and is off to high school.. to see if it
> is okay for him.. i told him if he didn't find a way to enjoy high
> school.. we'd make some other arrangements..
>
> i was just perusing the past couple of weeks of messages to get up
> to speed here.. i see someone else noticed the "bickering" i did
> that kept me at arms length from the group for a while, but what
the
> heck.. i can delete messages i find non productive, right?? hahah..
>
> also noting discussion on housework that seems to have sparked some
> conflict.. haha. HOUSEWORK ARGGHHH... it is my nemisis.. and i tend
> to order my kids to do it.. --my justification to them for these
> demands is that as a member of the family they enjoy the percs of
> their situation..i.e. lots of STUFF.. video games, food, shelter,
> computers etc.. so as members of the family that provides this for
> them they have a responsibility to contribute to said family at
> their own level of ability-- as do i and their father.. adn their
> older sister when she was living here. this works very well.. IN
> THEORY
>
> In reality, the eight year old just tells me NO and refuses to do
> anything and the fourteen year old says oh yes he'll do it.. and
> then never does.. i give up.. my house is very messy.. lolll... my
> husband occasionally stirs us all up and gets we get the house
> clean.. (i'm great at teaching them
> philisophical/spiritual/touchyfeely truths etc. of life, but their
> dad is in charge of the real world. (the "real world" and i have,
it
> seems always been at odds with each other.. )
>
> I am also very happy to see such a large group of unschoolers. i
> myself grew up going to public school but looking back see i
learned
> most of what i know at home from my mom and her parents.. and from
> reading myself.. (well, except algebra, geometry etc.. ) .. my mom
> saw public school for what it is--obedience training--back in the
> sixties.
>
> i also relate to what oh.. i forgot who... said about her son --the
> one with the bike and not stopping at stopsigns trying to impress
> other kids.. this is very like my own eight year old and is one of
> the very reasons he is going to stay home for his education. the
> stress of trying to be perfect to everyone (teachers, bad kids,
> popular kids, sporty kids etc etc) so they will like him has really
> done damage to his self esteem. i can see him beginning to relax a
> little already just knowing he will not have to go back to school.
> He said school was boring and that he already knew most of what
they
> were trying to teach him.. of this i have no doubt.. well maybe
> some, but he knows a lot from growing up with me and spending time
> with my mom-the-compulsive-pedagogue and obsessive naturalist.
>
> my grandfather "read the law" himself and became a lawyer in the
> early twenties just by passing the barr, so i figure unschooling is
> in my blood...
>
> i am trying to find more unschoolers here in san antonio. I would
> very much like my son to be in contact with other kids like
himself.
> he tends to isolate himself in the summer --except for an
> increasingly active online life with other video gamers and
> wrestling (ARGGHH) fans..
>
> I am an artist who is trying to find a way to support myself
without
> a job as i am moving out to an apt across the creek (we live in a
> suburban area on the edge of the houses and across the creek from
an
> apt complex) and get a divorce.. all quite friendly.. the kids are
> for it.. they would like some peace in the house.. i will be sort
of
> in the back yard for them.. the youngest (the homeschooler) will
> probly spend most of his time with me..
>
> SOOO any of you from texas? anybody from near san antonio?
> let me know because i have joined a mailling list for san antonio
> homeschoolers.. a few of which are unschoolers--a very small group
> that needs more participants. it is for those homeschooling for
> secular rather than religious reasons.. and it is safe to say that
> most homeschoolers in this area are doing so for religious reasons.
> (something i dont really get.. but hey, to each his own.. si?)
>
> sorry for so much writing..
> any of you would not be the first to point out that i talk too
much..
>
> Linda L
Fetteroll
on 6/27/02 9:00 AM, lllindsey at llindsey@... wrote:
new sitaution, it becomes clearer why the children don't see the
reasonableness of this.
Adults get to choose where to live and pretty much dictate how money gets
spent (or at least can veto any purchase). We may think we're pretty
generous about kid choices but if we turn it around it is very controlling.
Imagine your husband deciding on his own where you would live, which house
to buy (to primarily suit his needs but taking into account any needs of
yours that he deemed worthy) and how the decor would look. He would listen
to your suggestions but they'd only be taken into consideration if they
didn't interfere with his needs. Say he's a big sports fan (and you're not)
and he decided the house would be a shrine to his favorite team. If you had
a special non-sports related picture he might suggest it could hang on the
refrigerator or in a corner of your room so it didn't interfer with his
decorating scheme.
All meals would conform to his idea of good with maybe a little concession
to your tastes (potato chips instead of pretzels). You might get to go to
your favorite restaurant once in a while but your order couldn't be too far
off what he thought you should eat and couldn't be too expensive.
If you wanted to buy something outside your regular allowance -- like a book
or something -- you'd need to convince him that it was worthy of purchase
and you'd need to later demonstrate that you were using it enough for it to
have been worthy of purchase or you'd hear about it the next time you wanted
something.
If you wanted to go somewhere or get something at the store, it would have o
wait until it was convenient for your husband to take you.
In a way, ending up in a family is not unlike going to school. There's no
choice about being born/going to school (at least not for most kids!) or
what family/school you'll end up with. The adults are supposedly thinking of
everything the kids need and supplying them with it and expecting the kids
to appreciate it. The kids don't, of course, because what the adults are
really supplying is what the *adults* want the kids to have, not what the
kids want.
We may have decided what we wanted for our kids was a big backyard. Then it
seems reasonable since the kids live there and should appreciate it, they
should mow it when they're old enough. But as much as the kids might enjoy
the backyard, they didn't choose it and knowing what they'd need to do to
"pay" for it (for the rest of their childhoods) they might have chosen --
had they been able to be informed and been allowed the choice -- to buy a
house with a miniscule yard next to a park. So why should they appreciate
it?
It's sort of like getting showered by nothing but expensive Barbies and
parephernalia at every gift giving occasion when you've told people that
what you really love is dinosaurs. Should you think it's wonderful and
appreciate the "thoughtfulness" of the gift givers? Or are the "gifts"
really forms of control?
But if we act as though our children are partners without demanding that
they act as partners then they will be partners because it's more joy
inspiring to be invited with open arms with no strings attached than it is
to be required to uphold your membership in something you never asked to
join.
Joyce
> it is my nemisis.. and i tendIf you look at it from the child's point of view, or change it around to a
> to order my kids to do it.. --my justification to them for these
> demands is that as a member of the family they enjoy the percs of
> their situation..i.e. lots of STUFF.. video games, food, shelter,
> computers etc.. so as members of the family that provides this for
> them they have a responsibility to contribute to said family at
> their own level of ability-- as do i and their father.. adn their
> older sister when she was living here. this works very well.. IN
> THEORY
new sitaution, it becomes clearer why the children don't see the
reasonableness of this.
Adults get to choose where to live and pretty much dictate how money gets
spent (or at least can veto any purchase). We may think we're pretty
generous about kid choices but if we turn it around it is very controlling.
Imagine your husband deciding on his own where you would live, which house
to buy (to primarily suit his needs but taking into account any needs of
yours that he deemed worthy) and how the decor would look. He would listen
to your suggestions but they'd only be taken into consideration if they
didn't interfere with his needs. Say he's a big sports fan (and you're not)
and he decided the house would be a shrine to his favorite team. If you had
a special non-sports related picture he might suggest it could hang on the
refrigerator or in a corner of your room so it didn't interfer with his
decorating scheme.
All meals would conform to his idea of good with maybe a little concession
to your tastes (potato chips instead of pretzels). You might get to go to
your favorite restaurant once in a while but your order couldn't be too far
off what he thought you should eat and couldn't be too expensive.
If you wanted to buy something outside your regular allowance -- like a book
or something -- you'd need to convince him that it was worthy of purchase
and you'd need to later demonstrate that you were using it enough for it to
have been worthy of purchase or you'd hear about it the next time you wanted
something.
If you wanted to go somewhere or get something at the store, it would have o
wait until it was convenient for your husband to take you.
In a way, ending up in a family is not unlike going to school. There's no
choice about being born/going to school (at least not for most kids!) or
what family/school you'll end up with. The adults are supposedly thinking of
everything the kids need and supplying them with it and expecting the kids
to appreciate it. The kids don't, of course, because what the adults are
really supplying is what the *adults* want the kids to have, not what the
kids want.
We may have decided what we wanted for our kids was a big backyard. Then it
seems reasonable since the kids live there and should appreciate it, they
should mow it when they're old enough. But as much as the kids might enjoy
the backyard, they didn't choose it and knowing what they'd need to do to
"pay" for it (for the rest of their childhoods) they might have chosen --
had they been able to be informed and been allowed the choice -- to buy a
house with a miniscule yard next to a park. So why should they appreciate
it?
It's sort of like getting showered by nothing but expensive Barbies and
parephernalia at every gift giving occasion when you've told people that
what you really love is dinosaurs. Should you think it's wonderful and
appreciate the "thoughtfulness" of the gift givers? Or are the "gifts"
really forms of control?
But if we act as though our children are partners without demanding that
they act as partners then they will be partners because it's more joy
inspiring to be invited with open arms with no strings attached than it is
to be required to uphold your membership in something you never asked to
join.
Joyce
Sherry Neuendorff
Linda L. and all of you wonderful people,
Hi. I am de-lurking too. This is my first post. I just signed on
yesterday. I just wanted to say "Hi" to all of you and tell Linda that we
live in Austin. We occasionally go down to San Antonio. We love the zoo
and my grandmother lives there. I have a 6 year old son - Joey and a 3
year old daughter - Skylar and one due in September. We are thrilled to
be in Texas where it is so easy to homeschool and we are dedicated
unschoolers.
Hello to all of you. I am very glad that you are all out there. The
support is so needed.
Sherry
=====
Sherry Neuendorff
ds - Joey (6) dd - Skylar(3)
dh - Keith
Unschooling since 2001
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
Hi. I am de-lurking too. This is my first post. I just signed on
yesterday. I just wanted to say "Hi" to all of you and tell Linda that we
live in Austin. We occasionally go down to San Antonio. We love the zoo
and my grandmother lives there. I have a 6 year old son - Joey and a 3
year old daughter - Skylar and one due in September. We are thrilled to
be in Texas where it is so easy to homeschool and we are dedicated
unschoolers.
Hello to all of you. I am very glad that you are all out there. The
support is so needed.
Sherry
=====
Sherry Neuendorff
ds - Joey (6) dd - Skylar(3)
dh - Keith
Unschooling since 2001
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com