Re: 2124 -- for Scout et al.
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
Group,
Lately there have been many posts that have referred more to parenting
concerns than schooling (or unschooling). Many people whose children are
still under five seem to believe that they need to start in on some sort of
schooling, even UNschooling, whatever that might be to them, when what they
are mostly asking about needs to be understood/seen as parenting, not
schooling.
Children need decent (or, if possible, excellent) parenting. Some of the
comments I've read here reveal that many parents today need parenting
themselves AND definitely need parenting training. For that, I suggest going
to your library and get the help that your own parents did not provide for
you on how to raise a small child. Years ago, Luz and I read "Parent
Effectiveness Training (PET) and learned a lot. There surely are many new
books that can help with the fundamentals of getting along with and caring
for our own small kids.
Children's needs are amazingly basic, but are urgent. They need to know that
someone is protecting them from harm, hunger, cold, falling out of windows,
getting stuck in things, etc. After that (once they feel safe), their need
is to PLAY. Play is a child's way of finding out about the world. Schooling
does not provide that knowledge, so the main thing after basic maintenance
is play. Therefore, when parents have got the maintenance down, they simply
need to take the next step for their child: Providing (safe) access to the
world.
For Scout: scoutpayne@...
You asked (in 2124) for resources to help you begin to unschool. Understand
that unschooling is usually a practice of NOT doing schooling... Unschooling
is not a "technique" of schooling. It is THE ABSENSE of schooling. Once we
learn the real dangers and deficits of doing schooling to children, then we
can begin to learn how to raise a child so that s/he takes charge of his/her
own learning, and we can simply stand by and help with access and admire the
process.
Luz and I have put together a packet of info for parents who wish to
unschool their kids. If you'd like the whole thing, send an email and we
will return it to you right away. If you just want the list of books that
we believe are helpful (helped us raise our son) here is that excerpt from
the packet:
SUGGESTED READING
John Holt: Teach Your Own, How Children Learn, Escape From Childhood,
Learning All The Time, A Life Worth Living, Instead of Education, Never
Too Late, Freedom and Beyond
Thomas Armstrong: In Their own Way and The Myth of the A.D.D. Child
Polly Berien Berends: Whole Child, Whole Parent and Gently Lead
David and Micki Colfax: Homeschooling For Excellence and Hard Times In
Paradise
Linda Dobson: The Art Of Education and The Homeschooling Book of
Answers and more
Patrick Farenga:The Beginner¹s Guide to Homeschooling and Teenage
Homeschoolers: College or Not?
John Taylor Gatto: Dumbing Us Down and The Guerrilla Curriculum, The Empty
Child
Mary Griffith: The Unschooling Handbook: How to Use the Whole World as Your
Child¹s Classroom
Susan and Larry Kaseman: Taking Charge Through Homeschooling
Agnes Leistico: I Learn Better By Teaching Myself and Still Teaching
Ourselves
Grace Llewellyn: The Teenage Liberation Handbook and Real Lives
Susannah Sheffer, Ed.: Everyone Is Able: Exploding The Myth Of Learning
Disabilities
Matt Hern, Ed.: Deschooling Our Lives
Daniel Greenberg: Free At last
David Guterson: Family Matters
Alfie Kohn: Punished By Rewards
Jean Liedloff: The Continuum Concept
Alison Stallibrass: The Self-respecting Child
Charles J. Sykes: Dumbing Down Our Kids
Nancy Wallace: Better Than School and Child¹s Work
Cafi Cohen: Homeschoolers' College Admissions Handbook
We are extremely partial to John Holt's books since he was our own major
inspiration, and was such a beautiful writer and expressed his admiration
for children so clearly.
The lesson we learned from Holt was that children are born learning and are
built to do it. They don't need to be made to learn or shown how. Recently,
someone wrote that Kids are HARDWIRED to learn. We agree strongly.
We also believe that discipline is something children have at birth, it is
not something that needs to be taught, let alone pounded into a child. I
believe that those who use the word "discipline" to describe what they do to
their children, should use the word "punish" instead. I do not believe that
children are "spoiled" by good care and/or kindness, ever.
As for Scout's other question, about family and friends who will not
understand. ---- Since your child is still far from "school age" there is
time to prepare those people for what you'll be doing. First, if they don't
support you, they're not your friends (family or not).
Beyond that, your job is to fully understand what you're doing yourself. If
you're sure about your own practice, it will show to everyone and there
should be much less of a problem and less need to explain the details. A few
of the basic facts are these: Going to school is a waste of valuable time;
School does not educate, it indoctrinates; there is very little that's
taught in school, and even less that's learned -- most learning happens
outside of schools; the biggest lesson that schools teach is "You are not a
good learner!" Another strong lesson is this: Your opinions and needs are
not important, so sit down and be quiet.
Once your "friends and family" learn some of those facts, they might see
things more in your way.
For more, go to www.borntoexplore.org/unschool
READ, READ
Best wishes, Ned Vare
Lately there have been many posts that have referred more to parenting
concerns than schooling (or unschooling). Many people whose children are
still under five seem to believe that they need to start in on some sort of
schooling, even UNschooling, whatever that might be to them, when what they
are mostly asking about needs to be understood/seen as parenting, not
schooling.
Children need decent (or, if possible, excellent) parenting. Some of the
comments I've read here reveal that many parents today need parenting
themselves AND definitely need parenting training. For that, I suggest going
to your library and get the help that your own parents did not provide for
you on how to raise a small child. Years ago, Luz and I read "Parent
Effectiveness Training (PET) and learned a lot. There surely are many new
books that can help with the fundamentals of getting along with and caring
for our own small kids.
Children's needs are amazingly basic, but are urgent. They need to know that
someone is protecting them from harm, hunger, cold, falling out of windows,
getting stuck in things, etc. After that (once they feel safe), their need
is to PLAY. Play is a child's way of finding out about the world. Schooling
does not provide that knowledge, so the main thing after basic maintenance
is play. Therefore, when parents have got the maintenance down, they simply
need to take the next step for their child: Providing (safe) access to the
world.
For Scout: scoutpayne@...
You asked (in 2124) for resources to help you begin to unschool. Understand
that unschooling is usually a practice of NOT doing schooling... Unschooling
is not a "technique" of schooling. It is THE ABSENSE of schooling. Once we
learn the real dangers and deficits of doing schooling to children, then we
can begin to learn how to raise a child so that s/he takes charge of his/her
own learning, and we can simply stand by and help with access and admire the
process.
Luz and I have put together a packet of info for parents who wish to
unschool their kids. If you'd like the whole thing, send an email and we
will return it to you right away. If you just want the list of books that
we believe are helpful (helped us raise our son) here is that excerpt from
the packet:
SUGGESTED READING
John Holt: Teach Your Own, How Children Learn, Escape From Childhood,
Learning All The Time, A Life Worth Living, Instead of Education, Never
Too Late, Freedom and Beyond
Thomas Armstrong: In Their own Way and The Myth of the A.D.D. Child
Polly Berien Berends: Whole Child, Whole Parent and Gently Lead
David and Micki Colfax: Homeschooling For Excellence and Hard Times In
Paradise
Linda Dobson: The Art Of Education and The Homeschooling Book of
Answers and more
Patrick Farenga:The Beginner¹s Guide to Homeschooling and Teenage
Homeschoolers: College or Not?
John Taylor Gatto: Dumbing Us Down and The Guerrilla Curriculum, The Empty
Child
Mary Griffith: The Unschooling Handbook: How to Use the Whole World as Your
Child¹s Classroom
Susan and Larry Kaseman: Taking Charge Through Homeschooling
Agnes Leistico: I Learn Better By Teaching Myself and Still Teaching
Ourselves
Grace Llewellyn: The Teenage Liberation Handbook and Real Lives
Susannah Sheffer, Ed.: Everyone Is Able: Exploding The Myth Of Learning
Disabilities
Matt Hern, Ed.: Deschooling Our Lives
Daniel Greenberg: Free At last
David Guterson: Family Matters
Alfie Kohn: Punished By Rewards
Jean Liedloff: The Continuum Concept
Alison Stallibrass: The Self-respecting Child
Charles J. Sykes: Dumbing Down Our Kids
Nancy Wallace: Better Than School and Child¹s Work
Cafi Cohen: Homeschoolers' College Admissions Handbook
We are extremely partial to John Holt's books since he was our own major
inspiration, and was such a beautiful writer and expressed his admiration
for children so clearly.
The lesson we learned from Holt was that children are born learning and are
built to do it. They don't need to be made to learn or shown how. Recently,
someone wrote that Kids are HARDWIRED to learn. We agree strongly.
We also believe that discipline is something children have at birth, it is
not something that needs to be taught, let alone pounded into a child. I
believe that those who use the word "discipline" to describe what they do to
their children, should use the word "punish" instead. I do not believe that
children are "spoiled" by good care and/or kindness, ever.
As for Scout's other question, about family and friends who will not
understand. ---- Since your child is still far from "school age" there is
time to prepare those people for what you'll be doing. First, if they don't
support you, they're not your friends (family or not).
Beyond that, your job is to fully understand what you're doing yourself. If
you're sure about your own practice, it will show to everyone and there
should be much less of a problem and less need to explain the details. A few
of the basic facts are these: Going to school is a waste of valuable time;
School does not educate, it indoctrinates; there is very little that's
taught in school, and even less that's learned -- most learning happens
outside of schools; the biggest lesson that schools teach is "You are not a
good learner!" Another strong lesson is this: Your opinions and needs are
not important, so sit down and be quiet.
Once your "friends and family" learn some of those facts, they might see
things more in your way.
For more, go to www.borntoexplore.org/unschool
READ, READ
Best wishes, Ned Vare
scoutpayne
Ned,
Thank you for your response. Obviously, I know we have time to
research and learn as much as we can before the time when we have
to "register" our plan with the state, etc. I began by joining a
local group of homeschoolers here in StLouis that use a Yahoo group
listing such as this. It has been very helpful in giving me ideas
about the many different avenues to take with helping your children
learn and homeschooling. I believe that unschooling is where my
interest lies. I would appreciate the info packet you spoke of in
your email. Is it an email thing or should I send you postage?
My address is:
Scout Gibson
1058 Raisher Drive
St. Louis, MO 63130
I have bookmarked the page www.borntoexplore.org/unschool and hope to
read some of your articles this week. Thank you for all of your
insight and assistance in my research.
Scout
Thank you for your response. Obviously, I know we have time to
research and learn as much as we can before the time when we have
to "register" our plan with the state, etc. I began by joining a
local group of homeschoolers here in StLouis that use a Yahoo group
listing such as this. It has been very helpful in giving me ideas
about the many different avenues to take with helping your children
learn and homeschooling. I believe that unschooling is where my
interest lies. I would appreciate the info packet you spoke of in
your email. Is it an email thing or should I send you postage?
My address is:
Scout Gibson
1058 Raisher Drive
St. Louis, MO 63130
I have bookmarked the page www.borntoexplore.org/unschool and hope to
read some of your articles this week. Thank you for all of your
insight and assistance in my research.
Scout
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
You're welcome, Scout.
It's an email thing & I'll send it right out to you. We can also send hard
copies, but email is cheaper & faster.
Ned
It's an email thing & I'll send it right out to you. We can also send hard
copies, but email is cheaper & faster.
Ned
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 15:43:18 -0000
> From: "scoutpayne" <scoutpayne@...>
> Subject: Re: 2124 NED
>
> Ned,
> Thank you for your response. Obviously, I know we have time to
> research and learn as much as we can before the time when we have
> to "register" our plan with the state, etc. I began by joining a
> local group of homeschoolers here in StLouis that use a Yahoo group
> listing such as this. It has been very helpful in giving me ideas
> about the many different avenues to take with helping your children
> learn and homeschooling. I believe that unschooling is where my
> interest lies. I would appreciate the info packet you spoke of in
> your email. Is it an email thing or should I send you postage?
> My address is:
> Scout Gibson
> 1058 Raisher Drive
> St. Louis, MO 63130
>
> I have bookmarked the page www.borntoexplore.org/unschool and hope to
> read some of your articles this week. Thank you for all of your
> insight and assistance in my research.
> Scout
>
>
Sue
Could I also grab a copy as well??
Sue
Sue
----- Original Message -----
From: "Luz Shosie and Ned Vare" <nedvare@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 4:32 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: 2124 NED
> You're welcome, Scout.
>
> It's an email thing & I'll send it right out to you. We can also send hard
> copies, but email is cheaper & faster.
>
> Ned
>
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 15:43:18 -0000
> > From: "scoutpayne" <scoutpayne@...>
> > Subject: Re: 2124 NED
> >
> > Ned,
> > Thank you for your response. Obviously, I know we have time to
> > research and learn as much as we can before the time when we have
> > to "register" our plan with the state, etc. I began by joining a
> > local group of homeschoolers here in StLouis that use a Yahoo group
> > listing such as this. It has been very helpful in giving me ideas
> > about the many different avenues to take with helping your children
> > learn and homeschooling. I believe that unschooling is where my
> > interest lies. I would appreciate the info packet you spoke of in
> > your email. Is it an email thing or should I send you postage?
> > My address is:
> > Scout Gibson
> > 1058 Raisher Drive
> > St. Louis, MO 63130
> >
> > I have bookmarked the page www.borntoexplore.org/unschool and hope to
> > read some of your articles this week. Thank you for all of your
> > insight and assistance in my research.
> > Scout
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ~~~ Don't forget! If you change the topic, change the subject line! ~~~
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website:
> http://www.unschooling.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Barb Eaton
Sorry digest. I'd like a copy too Ned. TIA!
Barb E
on 6/25/02 7:54 AM, Sue at werapfamily@... wrote:
Barb E
on 6/25/02 7:54 AM, Sue at werapfamily@... wrote:
> Could I also grab a copy as well??
>
> Sue
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Luz Shosie and Ned Vare" <nedvare@...>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 4:32 AM
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: 2124 NED
>
>
>> You're welcome, Scout.
>>
>> It's an email thing & I'll send it right out to you. We can also send hard
>> copies, but email is cheaper & faster.
>>
>> Ned
Luz Shosie and Ned Vare
Yes, Sue & Barb -- it's on its way to you.
And anyone else who'd like Unschoolers Unlimited information & newsletter,
send us an email: Nedvare@...
Luz & Ned
http://www.borntoexplore.org/unschool
And anyone else who'd like Unschoolers Unlimited information & newsletter,
send us an email: Nedvare@...
Luz & Ned
http://www.borntoexplore.org/unschool
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 19:13:11 -0400
> From: Barb Eaton <homemama@...>
> Subject: Re: Re: 2124 NED
>
> Sorry digest. I'd like a copy too Ned. TIA!
>
> Barb E
>
> on 6/25/02 7:54 AM, Sue at werapfamily@... wrote:
>
>> Could I also grab a copy as well??
>>
>> Sue
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Luz Shosie and Ned Vare" <nedvare@...>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 4:32 AM
>> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: 2124 NED
>>
>>
>>> You're welcome, Scout.
>>>
>>> It's an email thing & I'll send it right out to you. We can also send hard
>>> copies, but email is cheaper & faster.
>>>
>>> Ned
>
>