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In a message dated 5/31/2002 6:24:24 PM Central Daylight Time,
rambler@... writes:


> Needless to say, I did not like what she was willingly doing to her
> innocent little boys.
>
> My wife and I took them on a week's vacation, and we swore that they would
> be going cold-turkey off of those chemicals. For a week, they didn't see
> Pill One. We marched their little butts all over creation and back, and
> didn't slow down a bit to wait for them, so they HAD to keep up

Just had to respond to this letter from Marc. First may I say a big "WOW"...

Don't you realize that when children have been on medication, that they
cannot
go COLD TURKEY??? You are very fortunate that these two boys didn't
experience
withdrawl, and may I remind you that you took a very BIG chance in doing
this?
Please anyone that reads this letter please be aware that cold turkey is
wrong
even if it involves you as an adult. These medications alter the chemicals in
the body, and are there for a purpose and by no means are gone and out of
the system within a week. I think you better investigate medications and
withdrawl before you take a chance like this again, especially with some
one elses children.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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In a message dated 6/2/02 7:53:55 PM, staclarspr@... writes:

<< Don't you realize that when children have been on medication, that they
cannot
go COLD TURKEY??? >>

It depends on the medication, doesn't it?

Shelly G

--- staclarspr@... wrote:

>
> Just had to respond to this letter from Marc. First
> may I say a big "WOW"...
>
> Don't you realize that when children have been on
> medication, that they
> cannot
> go COLD TURKEY???

Actually, that's not true with the stimulants
prescribed for ADHD (ritalin, adderol, concerta,
etc.). There are actually "breaks" (cold turkey
breaks) built into the treatment schedule for this
drug, to give your body a "rest".

I know this because a physician recommended this drug
for both my son and me, but I turned them down on both
accounts. But not without researching and asking lots
of questions, which is how I found out about this.

Doctors sometimes prescribe anti-depressants for ADHD,
and the case may be different for them, but as for the
stimulants, "cold turkey" is not only ok, but is, at
least by some physicians (I've spoken to more than one
and done lots of research) built right into the
treatment plan.

Shelly

=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead

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I have to agree that the poster should not have taken the kids off their
meds. Their beliefs about the need for them is irrelevant, as is the danger
of taking tehm off cold turkey.
I firmly believe that I have many rights as a parent, which can be summed up
briefly as the right to do what I think is best for my children. In my
opinion, what is best for them is out of hospital births, breastfeeding,
encouraging questions, unschooling, etc. If ANY one, relative or not, were
to do something contrary to the choices we made, behind my back and without
asking, they would never be trusted again to be with my children
unsupervised.
Yes, I agree with many here who say Ritalin is overprescribed and that ADD
doesn't apply in an unschooling life. Again, to me those things were
irrelevant. WHat really bothered me was someone deliberately violated a
parent's wishes and decisions.
We all may strongly believe our way is right but many people would argue
that with us. Would we stand by when someone purposely and deliberately did
something in direct opposition to OUR parenting beliefs? Why is it okay to
do so to others?
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

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PS> My disagreement wasn't personal, as I don't know the original poster and
can't remember her name.
~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

Shelly G

Well, now, I didn't say I agreed with someone taking a
child off a prescription drug without the parents'
permission ... that's another matter altogether, but
that's a discussion that I choose not to participate
in.

Shelly
--- ElissaJC@... wrote:
> I have to agree that the poster should not have
> taken the kids off their
> meds. Their beliefs about the need for them is
> irrelevant, as is the danger
> of taking tehm off cold turkey.
> I firmly believe that I have many rights as a
> parent, which can be summed up
> briefly as the right to do what I think is best for
> my children. In my
> opinion, what is best for them is out of hospital
> births, breastfeeding,
> encouraging questions, unschooling, etc. If ANY one,
> relative or not, were
> to do something contrary to the choices we made,
> behind my back and without
> asking, they would never be trusted again to be with
> my children
> unsupervised.
> Yes, I agree with many here who say Ritalin is
> overprescribed and that ADD
> doesn't apply in an unschooling life. Again, to me
> those things were
> irrelevant. WHat really bothered me was someone
> deliberately violated a
> parent's wishes and decisions.
> We all may strongly believe our way is right but
> many people would argue
> that with us. Would we stand by when someone
> purposely and deliberately did
> something in direct opposition to OUR parenting
> beliefs? Why is it okay to
> do so to others?
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern
> methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of
> inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>


=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com

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<<Well, now, I didn't say I agreed with someone taking a
child off a prescription drug without the parents'
permission ... that's another matter altogether, but
that's a discussion that I choose not to participate
in.
Shelly>>

Hi Shelly,
I wasn't really responding to you directly to counter your arguement, I was
thinking about writing that post for a few days, your's just happened to be
easier to "reply to" than to compose a new one.
I thought that this was an important point to make. I wanted to take the
current conversation in a slightly different direction in order to point out
somethings that I had been thinking about.

~Elissa Cleaveland
"It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction
have
not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry." A. Einstein

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/3/02 6:19:18 AM, ElissaJC@... writes:

<< If ANY one, relative or not, were
to do something contrary to the choices we made, behind my back and without
asking, they would never be trusted again to be with my children
unsupervised. >>

But you need to trust them before you let them take the kid.

If I let my kids spend a week with other relatives the the relatives try to
teach them algebra or something during that time, the kids will either go
along with it or not.

I'm presuming the child agreed (probably happily) not to take the ritalin. I
would never make a child take a drug against his will, so for me that would
come under that category. If they offered him a week OFF the drug (and why
should he take it during a vacation without schedule or expectation of
behavior?) and he accepted, then that's less invasive of his privacy than
trying to teach formal algebra to an unschooler would be. Drugs can be
reinstated. Math pressure and shame can't be undone after the fact.

<<WHat really bothered me was someone deliberately violated a
parent's wishes and decisions.>>

To take this to an extreme, some parents wish and decide to use corporal
punishment and some are sexual abusers. The uncles and aunts don't have to
keep THAT up on weeks when the kids are with them. Many are verbal abusers
and schedule-abusers (I don't care WHAT you're doing, it's 9:00, go to bed")
and relatives don't have to keep THAT up.

<<Would we stand by when someone purposely and deliberately did
something in direct opposition to OUR parenting beliefs?>>

Depends what it is.

I am not a health food nut, but if my kids stay with friends who are, they
eat what that other family is eating. I don't take my kids to church, but
when other people have, I haven't made a big deal, because the kids can say
no if they really don't want to go. Even if someone took Holly and marched
her through a full week of Vacation Bible School and Baptist-life to try to
convince her that she had to be born again, I could be calm about that,
because Holly knows enough to be analytical and is not easily led.

I would consider all those things to be educational opportunities.

Maybe it's different with younger kids or newer unschoolers.

We allow TV watching at our house, and video games. I would NOT even begin
to agree to keep someone else's child for a week (nephews, neighbors,
friends) on the parents' terms if they were to say "Don't let him watch TV"
or "Make him go to bed at 9:00" or "If he says a bad word he has to be
spanked." They can keep him themselves.

And if a family drugs their child even when he's home because a doctor said
it was a good idea, if his being drugged daily is crucial to their peace of
mind, they should keep him with them ever moment, because not all people are
willing to give children stupifying drugs.

Sandra

Shelly G

Elissa, I'm actually glad you wrote your post, because
my post neglecting to mention the subject altogether
comes off, I believe, as a tacit approval. An
oversight on my part...

Shelly
--- ElissaJC@... wrote:
> <<Well, now, I didn't say I agreed with someone
> taking a
> child off a prescription drug without the parents'
> permission ... that's another matter altogether, but
> that's a discussion that I choose not to participate
> in.
> Shelly>>
>
> Hi Shelly,
> I wasn't really responding to you directly to
> counter your arguement, I was
> thinking about writing that post for a few days,
> your's just happened to be
> easier to "reply to" than to compose a new one.
> I thought that this was an important point to make.
> I wanted to take the
> current conversation in a slightly different
> direction in order to point out
> somethings that I had been thinking about.
>
> ~Elissa Cleaveland
> "It is nothing short of a miracle that the modern
> methods of instruction
> have
> not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of
> inquiry." A. Einstein
>
>
>
>


=====
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does." -- Margaret Mead

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com